claims.....

sal bass said:

http://www.industrynine.net/official/ultralite.html

The hub actually cannot be destroyed by the spokes being damaged. It
would be physically impossible. The spokes threaded end is larger in
diameter than the rest of the spoke. The valley of the thread has a
greater root diameter than the rest of the spoke making it the
strongest point of the spoke instead of the weakest (as in a standard
spoke). So in any possible case scenario, the spoke itself would fail
before the threads could be damaged. In 2 1/2 years of testing there
has not been a stripped thread on a hub.

Here is an excerpt that explains it well:

"By starting with a 20-25% larger cross-sectional area, our machined
7075-T651 aluminum is equal in strength to any 14-gauge or 14/15 DB
spoke available. In many ways, the Industry Nine spoke is much
stronger, because we have removed all the weak points (known as stress
risers) inherent in the design of a traditional hooked steel spoke.
First, the spoke has no bend. This is nothing new, but remains an
intelligent design. Most steel spokes fail either at the middle of the
bend, or the first thread at the nipple end. By eliminating the bend
altogether, the spoke is instantly less prone to fatigue stress
failure.

Second, the root diameter of the Industry Nine one-piece spoke is
actually larger than the diameter of the length of the spoke. Other
spokes fail at the first thread because the root diameter (the bottom
of the thread's "V"😉 is actually the smallest diameter of the spoke,
just where slight relative motions of the nipple apply additional
bending forces. "

As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same
fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and
unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads
much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter
fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a
steel spoke).

Report back in a 10-12 years and we'll see if any of that pans out.

By then my nice old wheels will have passed through many more tires,
still on the same old spokes and rims. . .

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

sal bass said:

http://www.industrynine.net/official/ultralite.html

The hub actually cannot be destroyed by the spokes being damaged. It
would be physically impossible. The spokes threaded end is larger in
diameter than the rest of the spoke. The valley of the thread has a
greater root diameter than the rest of the spoke making it the
strongest point of the spoke instead of the weakest (as in a standard
spoke). So in any possible case scenario, the spoke itself would fail
before the threads could be damaged. In 2 1/2 years of testing there
has not been a stripped thread on a hub.

Here is an excerpt that explains it well:

"By starting with a 20-25% larger cross-sectional area, our machined
7075-T651 aluminum is equal in strength to any 14-gauge or 14/15 DB
spoke available. In many ways, the Industry Nine spoke is much
stronger, because we have removed all the weak points (known as stress
risers) inherent in the design of a traditional hooked steel spoke.
First, the spoke has no bend. This is nothing new, but remains an
intelligent design. Most steel spokes fail either at the middle of the
bend, or the first thread at the nipple end. By eliminating the bend
altogether, the spoke is instantly less prone to fatigue stress
failure.

Second, the root diameter of the Industry Nine one-piece spoke is
actually larger than the diameter of the length of the spoke. Other
spokes fail at the first thread because the root diameter (the bottom
of the thread's "V"😉 is actually the smallest diameter of the spoke,
just where slight relative motions of the nipple apply additional
bending forces. "

As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same
fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and
unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads
much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter
fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a
steel spoke).

Yep, and in 3 years, these hubs/wheels, IF the company is still
around, will have changed making this version obsolete, with NO
replacement rims, the thing that DOES wear out. Great idea, another
somebody trying to reinvent the wheel.

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

sal bass said:

http://www.industrynine.net/official/ultralite.html

The hub actually cannot be destroyed by the spokes being damaged. It
would be physically impossible. The spokes threaded end is larger in
diameter than the rest of the spoke. The valley of the thread has a
greater root diameter than the rest of the spoke making it the
strongest point of the spoke instead of the weakest (as in a standard
spoke). So in any possible case scenario, the spoke itself would fail
before the threads could be damaged. In 2 1/2 years of testing there
has not been a stripped thread on a hub.

Here is an excerpt that explains it well:

"By starting with a 20-25% larger cross-sectional area, our machined
7075-T651 aluminum is equal in strength to any 14-gauge or 14/15 DB
spoke available. In many ways, the Industry Nine spoke is much
stronger, because we have removed all the weak points (known as stress
risers) inherent in the design of a traditional hooked steel spoke.
First, the spoke has no bend. This is nothing new, but remains an
intelligent design. Most steel spokes fail either at the middle of the
bend, or the first thread at the nipple end. By eliminating the bend
altogether, the spoke is instantly less prone to fatigue stress
failure.

Second, the root diameter of the Industry Nine one-piece spoke is
actually larger than the diameter of the length of the spoke. Other
spokes fail at the first thread because the root diameter (the bottom
of the thread's "V"😉 is actually the smallest diameter of the spoke,
just where slight relative motions of the nipple apply additional
bending forces. "

As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same
fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and
unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads
much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter
fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a
steel spoke).

Yep, and in 3 years, these hubs/wheels, IF the company is still
around, will have changed making this version obsolete, with NO
replacement rims, the thing that DOES wear out. Great idea, another
somebody trying to reinvent the wheel.

Looked at their web page, and wasn't clear on some things. Where does the
spoke wrench contact the spoke? At the rim end, or the hub end? If the
whole spoke rotates as the wheel is trued, why don't some of the spokes
orient across the direction of travel?
Thanks,
Kerry

"sal bass" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.industrynine.net/official/ultralite.html

The hub actually cannot be destroyed by the spokes being damaged. It
would be physically impossible. The spokes threaded end is larger in
diameter than the rest of the spoke. The valley of the thread has a
greater root diameter than the rest of the spoke making it the
strongest point of the spoke instead of the weakest (as in a standard
spoke). So in any possible case scenario, the spoke itself would fail
before the threads could be damaged. In 2 1/2 years of testing there
has not been a stripped thread on a hub.

Here is an excerpt that explains it well:

"By starting with a 20-25% larger cross-sectional area, our machined
7075-T651 aluminum is equal in strength to any 14-gauge or 14/15 DB
spoke available. In many ways, the Industry Nine spoke is much
stronger, because we have removed all the weak points (known as stress
risers) inherent in the design of a traditional hooked steel spoke.
First, the spoke has no bend. This is nothing new, but remains an
intelligent design. Most steel spokes fail either at the middle of the
bend, or the first thread at the nipple end. By eliminating the bend
altogether, the spoke is instantly less prone to fatigue stress
failure.

Second, the root diameter of the Industry Nine one-piece spoke is
actually larger than the diameter of the length of the spoke. Other
spokes fail at the first thread because the root diameter (the bottom
of the thread's "V"😉 is actually the smallest diameter of the spoke,
just where slight relative motions of the nipple apply additional
bending forces. "

As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same
fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and
unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads
much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter
fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a
steel spoke).

The final part about fatigue cycles and loading and unloading is pure bull
pucky.

Chas.

On 2007-02-24, * * Chas <[email hidden]> wrote:
[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same
fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and
unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads
much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter
fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a
steel spoke).

The final part about fatigue cycles and loading and unloading is pure
bull pucky.

I thought that, but wondered if what they're saying is this: (1)
aluminium has a higher modulus than steel, (2) therefore the load is
distributed between more spokes, therefore the fatigue cycle on each
spoke is lighter.

I don't know if (1) is true or that (2) necessarily follows from (1).

"Ben C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2007-02-24, * * Chas <[email hidden]> wrote:
[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same
fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and
unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads
much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter
fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a
steel spoke).

The final part about fatigue cycles and loading and unloading is pure
bull pucky.

I thought that, but wondered if what they're saying is this: (1)
aluminium has a higher modulus than steel, (2) therefore the load is
distributed between more spokes, therefore the fatigue cycle on each
spoke is lighter.

I don't know if (1) is true or that (2) necessarily follows from (1).

Elastic Modulus:

2024-T3 Aluminum 7.310E+10 Pa
6061-T6 Aluminum 7.310E+10 Pa
7079-T6 Aluminum 7.172E+10 Pa
AISI C1020 Steel 2.034E+11 Pa

or

Youngs Modulus

Aluminum 69
Steel 200

http://www.mse.cornell.edu/courses/engri111/modulus.htm

* * Chas said:

"sal bass" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.industrynine.net/official/ultralite.html

The hub actually cannot be destroyed by the spokes being damaged. It
would be physically impossible. The spokes threaded end is larger in
diameter than the rest of the spoke. The valley of the thread has a
greater root diameter than the rest of the spoke making it the
strongest point of the spoke instead of the weakest (as in a standard
spoke). So in any possible case scenario, the spoke itself would fail
before the threads could be damaged. In 2 1/2 years of testing there
has not been a stripped thread on a hub.

Here is an excerpt that explains it well:

"By starting with a 20-25% larger cross-sectional area, our machined
7075-T651 aluminum is equal in strength to any 14-gauge or 14/15 DB
spoke available. In many ways, the Industry Nine spoke is much
stronger, because we have removed all the weak points (known as stress
risers) inherent in the design of a traditional hooked steel spoke.
First, the spoke has no bend. This is nothing new, but remains an
intelligent design. Most steel spokes fail either at the middle of the
bend, or the first thread at the nipple end. By eliminating the bend
altogether, the spoke is instantly less prone to fatigue stress
failure.

Second, the root diameter of the Industry Nine one-piece spoke is
actually larger than the diameter of the length of the spoke. Other
spokes fail at the first thread because the root diameter (the bottom
of the thread's "V"😉 is actually the smallest diameter of the spoke,
just where slight relative motions of the nipple apply additional
bending forces. "

As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same
fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and
unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads
much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter
fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a
steel spoke).

The final part about fatigue cycles and loading and unloading is pure bull
pucky.

Chas.

if the aluminum spokes were the same dimensions as the steel spokes,
you'd be right. but these spokes are not, they're thicker. whether
they're thick enough to compensate is hard to tell from the pics, but
the cross section would need to be roughly 3 times the area to
compensate. that's about a 3.5mm spoke vs a 2.0mm spoke. and they're
straight pull, not elbowed - right there is going to be fatigue advantage.

if you want to criticize these wheels for something, do it for the
aluminum freehub body. anyone that's seen a mangled aluminum chris king
hub body and noticed that shimano won't use them unless it's deep
spline, has got to figure that there may be a problem with that...

jim beam said:

* * Chas said:

"sal bass" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.industrynine.net/official/ultralite.html

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As far as fatigue life goes, aluminum spokes do not undergo the same
fatigue cycles that a steel spoke goes through. Steel spokes load and
unload quite a bit during revolutions, aluminum resists those loads
much better and do not bend or flex as much. Therefore, a lighter
fatigue cycle resulting in longer spoke life (approaching that of a
steel spoke).

The final part about fatigue cycles and loading and unloading is pure bull
pucky.

Chas.

if the aluminum spokes were the same dimensions as the steel spokes,
you'd be right. but these spokes are not, they're thicker.

They don't say that though, in the quote at the top, which does make it
grade A bull pucky.

jim beam said:

* * Chas said:

"sal bass" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"By starting with a 20-25% larger cross-sectional area, our machined
7075-T651 aluminum is equal in strength to any 14-gauge or 14/15 DB
spoke available.

[...]

Quoted message said:

if the aluminum spokes were the same dimensions as the steel spokes,
you'd be right. but these spokes are not, they're thicker. whether
they're thick enough to compensate is hard to tell from the pics, but
the cross section would need to be roughly 3 times the area to
compensate.

They say above that it's 20-25% larger. As you say (and as the figures
for Young's Modulus of 69 and 200 provided by * * Chas also say) it
would need to be 300% larger to be as stiff as steel. Could it really be
as strong as a steel spoke with only a 25% larger cross-sectional area?