Cleaning deep fryers

Andy Katz said:

I wonder if anyone who's worked in the industry or who knows the regs
(especially for NY State;-) can comment on legality of requiring cooks
to clean out deep fryers while they're still at maximum temp. In
particular a donut fryer that runs about 475 F

At 475ºF. it would need to be running Quaker State.

Sheldon

I would like to make individual servings of rice molded in a custard-cup
shape, Is there any particular trick to doing this beyond preparing the
rice and packing it well into a buttered cup? I wondered if some preparation
would make a stickier rice that would cling together better than the
conventional prep which promises clump-free rice.

Sheldon said:

Andy Katz said:

I wonder if anyone who's worked in the industry or who knows the regs
(especially for NY State;-) can comment on legality of requiring cooks
to clean out deep fryers while they're still at maximum temp. In
particular a donut fryer that runs about 475 F

At 475ºF. it would need to be running Quaker State.

Soybean oil.

Andy Katz
***************************************************************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

Andy Katz said:

Hello,

I wonder if anyone who's worked in the industry or who knows the regs
(especially for NY State;-) can comment on legality of requiring cooks
to clean out deep fryers while they're still at maximum temp. In
particular a donut fryer that runs about 475 F and holds about twenty
gallons of oil.

I'm not in NY State but that sounds like a huge liability as well as major
worker's comp claims just waiting to happen.

Jill

Andy Katz said:

Sheldon said:

Andy Katz said:

I wonder if anyone who's worked in the industry or who knows the regs
(especially for NY State;-) can comment on legality of requiring cooks
to clean out deep fryers while they're still at maximum temp. In
particular a donut fryer that runs about 475 F

At 475ºF. it would need to be running Quaker State.

Soybean oil.

Soy bean oil smoke point is 440ºF.

Which of course is much too hot for frying foods, especially donuts.

Sheldon

Andy Katz said:

I wonder if anyone who's worked in the industry or who knows the regs
(especially for NY State;-) can comment on legality of requiring cooks
to clean out deep fryers while they're still at maximum temp. In
particular a donut fryer that runs about 475 F and holds about twenty
gallons of oil.

A fryer that runs at 475°F is in imminent danger of igniting. You might
want to check that. Anything over 400° is seriously hazardous. And is
likely burning anything cooked in it.

Deep fryer fat needs to be filtered when hot for the best job. Filter
materials are specifically designed to deal with very hot oil. It takes
hours for the oil to cool down appreciably. In all my restaurants, we
filtered oil within 20 minutes of shutdown every evening. In the higher
volume ones, we filtered after lunch as well.

What do you mean when you say "clean out deep fryers" - what we did was
to drain oil and scrub down the inside of the machine and any
accessories that need to be washed. Then return oil to *dry* tank.

Pastorio

"Andy Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I wonder if anyone who's worked in the industry or who knows the regs
(especially for NY State;-) can comment on legality of requiring cooks
to clean out deep fryers while they're still at maximum temp. In
particular a donut fryer that runs about 475 F and holds about twenty
gallons of oil.

Basic common sense aside, I seem to recall hearing somewhere that this
was a specific OSHA violation.

As I remember, NYS has its own OSHA program, so the spscific Federal regs
wouldn't apply in NYS if the matter is already addressed in the NYS Dept
Labor regs.

That said, there is a general duty clause in OSHA that requires the employer
(as defined in the act) to protect the worker. NYS has a similar, more
comprehensive reg.

If the workers have adequate protective gear ( oil-proof long mitts and
apron to protect from the third degree burn potential of the oil, and face
shields to protect from spatter-caused burns when scrubbing in the
containers), then it would not be a violation.
If the workers are told to go in there and clean a maxed-out vat without
their having face and arm protection, it would definitely be a problem.

If you think you're seeing a blatantly dangerous practice, call the NYS
Bureau of Labor in Albany with the details, and they will either handle it
or route you to someone who will look into it.

Quoted message said:

TIA

Andy Katz
***************************************************************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

Sheldon said:

Andy Katz said:

Sheldon said:

Andy Katz wrote:
>
> I wonder if anyone who's worked in the industry or who knows the regs
> (especially for NY State;-) can comment on legality of requiring cooks
> to clean out deep fryers while they're still at maximum temp. In
> particular a donut fryer that runs about 475 F

At 475ºF. it would need to be running Quaker State.

Soybean oil.

Soy bean oil smoke point is 440ºF.

Soy bean smoke temp is 495 degrees Fahrenheit. See below

http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/States_of_Matter_and_Energy/Boiling_Evaporating_and_Condensing/20010430135040.htm

But, like sheldon says, is way too hot for donuts.

Quoted message said:

Which of course is much too hot for frying foods, especially donuts.

Sheldon

Allan Matthews said:

Sheldon said:

Andy Katz said:

"Sheldon" wrote:

>
>Andy Katz wrote:
>>
>> I wonder if anyone who's worked in the industry or who knows the regs
>> (especially for NY State;-) can comment on legality of requiring cooks
>> to clean out deep fryers while they're still at maximum temp. In
>> particular a donut fryer that runs about 475 F
>
>At 475ºF. it would need to be running Quaker State.

Soybean oil.

Soy bean oil smoke point is 440ºF.

Soy bean smoke temp is 495 degrees Fahrenheit. See below

http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/States_of_Matter_and_Energy/Boiling_Evaporating_and_Condensing/20010430135040.htm

That's a debatable point... depends on which soy oil and which list...
my reference books at home claim 440ºF. for the type of soy oil
typically used for cooking. Here's another point of view, indicates
three different options: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point

Quoted message said:

But, like Sheldon says, is way too hot for donuts.

And that's the point. And smoke points fluctuate with use too, no
cooking oil should be used near its smoke point, extremely dangerous.
Even if your deep fryer is equiped with a thermostat you should still
use a thermometer... there's is never a reason to deep fry with any oil
at temperatures over 375ºF. I recommend 360ºF for deep frying... and
never crank up the oil temperature if your fryer can't recover, fry
smaller batches or buy a larger fryer... otherwise be sure your
insurance premiums are up to date.

Sheldon

Sheldon said:

Quoted message said:

Soy bean smoke temp is 495 degrees Fahrenheit. See below

http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/States_of_Matter_and_Energy/Boiling_Evaporating_and_Condensing/20010430135040.htm

That's a debatable point... depends on which soy oil and which list...
my reference books at home claim 440ºF. for the type of soy oil
typically used for cooking. Here's another point of view, indicates
three different options: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point

Quoted message said:

But, like Sheldon says, is way too hot for donuts.

And that's the point. And smoke points fluctuate with use too, no
cooking oil should be used near its smoke point, extremely dangerous.
Even if your deep fryer is equiped with a thermostat you should still
use a thermometer... there's is never a reason to deep fry with any oil
at temperatures over 375ºF. I recommend 360ºF for deep frying... and
never crank up the oil temperature if your fryer can't recover, fry
smaller batches or buy a larger fryer... otherwise be sure your
insurance premiums are up to date.

Sheldon

Agree entirely. Before any oil reaches its smoke point it is almost
explosive. Had the scary experience once of walking into a room where
a person was attempting to boil linseed oil because he thought "boiled
linseed oil" was actually boiled. The air in the room turned blue
almost instantly at one point.

"Andy Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I wonder if anyone who's worked in the industry or who knows the regs
(especially for NY State;-) can comment on legality of requiring cooks
to clean out deep fryers while they're still at maximum temp. In
particular a donut fryer that runs about 475 F and holds about twenty
gallons of oil.

btw, I think you misread the dial or there was a misprint- IMHE, donuts are
not fried at 475, and most fryers have overtemp switches that in theory keep
oil temp below flash points.

While some moron might actually make a fryer that can reach 475 +/- 25,
why??

Are you sure it wasn't 375 F, the usual temp for donuts?

Quoted message said:

Basic common sense aside, I seem to recall hearing somewhere that this
was a specific OSHA violation.

TIA

Andy Katz
***************************************************************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:23:55 -0600, "hob" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Andy Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I wonder if anyone who's worked in the industry or who knows the regs
(especially for NY State;-) can comment on legality of requiring cooks
to clean out deep fryers while they're still at maximum temp. In
particular a donut fryer that runs about 475 F and holds about twenty
gallons of oil.

btw, I think you misread the dial or there was a misprint- IMHE, donuts are
not fried at 475, and most fryers have overtemp switches that in theory keep
oil temp below flash points.

Thanks for the tips in the previous reply. I'll definitely contact
Albany. There is no protective equipment supplied or suggested. As the
fryers are drained the floors are also cleaned, so they're quite
slippery. Meanwhile typical of a commercial kitchen, everyone's
running around like a maniac trying to everything done. The place has
been open for a year. I've only been there a few months, but I'm
utterly shocked that no one's been seriously injured or maimed. Yet.

Wrt the food, I don't know the exact temps as we don't use a
thermometer, and the dial is long since crusted and unreadable. It is
a donut fryer, but it's used to cook battered fish for fish and chips,
the idea being to crisp the fish while maintaining moistness on the
inside. It works quite well, too.

We have a set of standard deep fryers next to the donut fryer. We use
those for the chips. Whenever chips are needed on the fly we put them
in the donut fryer ... it's like *turbo*. Four minutes in the 350
fryer equate to about thirty seconds in the donut fryer (of course
they're going to be less done on the inside that way).

*I* was told the big fryer runs at 500 F. That's certainly an
exaggeration, but I'd think it's at least 450.

Quoted message said:

While some moron might actually make a fryer that can reach 475 +/- 25,
why??

Are you sure it wasn't 375 F, the usual temp for donuts?

I'm sure it's significantly hotter. I'll see if I can dig up my own
candy/oil thermometer and give it a check tonight.

Andy Katz

Sheldon said:

And that's the point. And smoke points fluctuate with use too, no
cooking oil should be used near its smoke point, extremely dangerous.
Even if your deep fryer is equiped with a thermostat you should still
use a thermometer... there's is never a reason to deep fry with any oil
at temperatures over 375ºF. I recommend 360ºF for deep frying... and
never crank up the oil temperature if your fryer can't recover, fry
smaller batches or buy a larger fryer... otherwise be sure your
insurance premiums are up to date.

The product here is fish and chips. It works quite well. The cod and
haddock retain their moisture while crisping on the outside.

These replies have got me curious. I'll bring my own candy thermometer
in to see what the temps are.

Andy Katz

Andy Katz said:

Hello,

I wonder if anyone who's worked in the industry or who knows the regs
(especially for NY State;-) can comment on legality of requiring cooks
to clean out deep fryers while they're still at maximum temp. In
particular a donut fryer that runs about 475 F and holds about twenty
gallons of oil.

475? When I worked at a bakery we fried doughnuts at 350 in vegetable
shortening.

Andy Katz said:

Thanks for the tips in the previous reply. I'll definitely contact
Albany. There is no protective equipment supplied or suggested. As the
fryers are drained the floors are also cleaned, so they're quite
slippery.

Are you saying they drain the cooking oil onto the floor and then wash
it down the floor drain? If so and they get caught not only will the
EPA slap a lock on the door, they'll be so in debt for the clean up
expence they'll wish they never heard of donuts, because for their
entire lives they'll never get out the hole.

Andy Katz said:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:23:55 -0600, "hob" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Andy Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I wonder if anyone who's worked in the industry or who knows the
regs (especially for NY State;-) can comment on legality of
requiring cooks to clean out deep fryers while they're still at
maximum temp. In particular a donut fryer that runs about 475 F
and holds about twenty gallons of oil.

btw, I think you misread the dial or there was a misprint- IMHE,
donuts are not fried at 475, and most fryers have overtemp switches
that in theory keep oil temp below flash points.

Thanks for the tips in the previous reply. I'll definitely contact
Albany. There is no protective equipment supplied or suggested.

There is no "protective equipment" for fryers. You've never worked in a
restaurant before, have you?

Quoted message said:

As
the fryers are drained the floors are also cleaned, so they're quite
slippery. Meanwhile typical of a commercial kitchen, everyone's
running around like a maniac trying to everything done. The place has
been open for a year. I've only been there a few months, but I'm
utterly shocked that no one's been seriously injured or maimed. Yet.

Boy, are you naive. You just described every restaurant on earth at closing.

Quoted message said:

Wrt the food, I don't know the exact temps as we don't use a
thermometer, and the dial is long since crusted and unreadable. It is
a donut fryer, but it's used to cook battered fish for fish and
chips, the idea being to crisp the fish while maintaining moistness
on the inside. It works quite well, too.

You described the whole reason for coating and deep-frying any food. But
anything over 375°F will destroy the food. Doughnuts will literally
explode at temperatures higher than 400°F. Any foods with a high
moisture content will cause enormous geysers of steam that will splash
oil all over the place.

Quoted message said:

We have a set of standard deep fryers next to the donut fryer. We use
those for the chips. Whenever chips are needed on the fly we put
them in the donut fryer ... it's like *turbo*. Four minutes in the
350 fryer equate to about thirty seconds in the donut fryer (of
course they're going to be less done on the inside that way).

Go get your thermometer. What you've posted so far is uninformed
nonsense, overstated and sounding like some alarmist ignoramus.

Quoted message said:

*I* was told the big fryer runs at 500 F. That's certainly an
exaggeration, but I'd think it's at least 450.

I guarantee you're wrong. That oil would be in flames unless it's
absolutely fresh. The smoke point of oils drop as they get used and
chemically change after a few days. That oil would make foods that would
be utterly inedible because of the scorched flavors and the raw interiors.

Oil heated to more than 400°F would be smoking because the heater
elements (if electric) or burner channels (if gas) have to be hotter
than that to get it to that temperature and to effect fast recovery.
They would be operating at higher than the smoke points of any oils
commercially used from doughnut frying.

You obviously know nothing about the subject and have either been
guessing or playing games.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

While some moron might actually make a fryer that can reach 475 +/-
25, why??

Are you sure it wasn't 375 F, the usual temp for donuts?

I'm sure it's significantly hotter.

So let's see, Mr. Restaurant expert. No thermometer in the unit. No
numbers on the dial and you're "sure it's significantly hotter." Based
on a wonderful imagination...

[censored].

Quoted message said:

I'll see if I can dig up my own
candy/oil thermometer and give it a check tonight.

If you say more than 375 max, you're lying. So far you've been guessing
and doing so rather stupidly in the face of some other, clearly more
informed participants here. Quit the freakin guesswork and try to
actually provide a fact instead of this ridiculous prattle. Go measure
something instead of insisting about a subject that several of us have
had to deal with in our professional lives; 30 years for me of owning
deep fryers and doughnut conveyor-fryers.

Pastorio

"Bob (this one)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy Katz said:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:23:55 -0600, "hob" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Andy Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

> Hello,
>
> I wonder if anyone who's worked in the industry or who knows the
> regs (especially for NY State;-) can comment on legality of
> requiring cooks to clean out deep fryers while they're still at
> maximum temp. In particular a donut fryer that runs about 475 F
> and holds about twenty gallons of oil.

btw, I think you misread the dial or there was a misprint- IMHE,
donuts are not fried at 475, and most fryers have overtemp switches
that in theory keep oil temp below flash points.

Thanks for the tips in the previous reply. I'll definitely contact
Albany. There is no protective equipment supplied or suggested.

There is no "protective equipment" for fryers. You've never worked in a
restaurant before, have you?

Having been certified as an expert in several court cases involving deep
fryers, I can state with experience that electric deep fryers are to have UL
or other agency listing, and as such have all the inherent protective
equipment required by UL (e.g., UL 197.)
Further, for many years they have also have been required to be installed
per the national building and fire codes, which have mandatory protective
equipment required in methods, materials, venting, and fire suppression.
(see sections 605 and 610 of the International Fire Code, section 906 of the
IBC, NYCRR 1223, etc.)
And OSHA regulations from Feb of last year now prohibit persons under the
age of 16 from using pressurized fryers, and prohibit them from using any
deep fryers unless the fryers have automatic basket lifts (worker-protection
equipment).

Much of the protective equipment may not be obvious to the casual user,
but there is definitely integrated and code-required protective equipment
for fryers.

And oil heated to near the flashpoint would be almost certainly be subject
to OSHA 29CFR1910.106 which governs flammable liquids and vapors.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As
the fryers are drained the floors are also cleaned, so they're quite
slippery. Meanwhile typical of a commercial kitchen, everyone's
running around like a maniac trying to everything done. The place has
been open for a year. I've only been there a few months, but I'm
utterly shocked that no one's been seriously injured or maimed. Yet.

Boy, are you naive. You just described every restaurant on earth at

closing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wrt the food, I don't know the exact temps as we don't use a
thermometer, and the dial is long since crusted and unreadable. It is
a donut fryer, but it's used to cook battered fish for fish and
chips, the idea being to crisp the fish while maintaining moistness
on the inside. It works quite well, too.

You described the whole reason for coating and deep-frying any food. But
anything over 375°F will destroy the food. Doughnuts will literally
explode at temperatures higher than 400°F. Any foods with a high
moisture content will cause enormous geysers of steam that will splash
oil all over the place.

Quoted message said:

We have a set of standard deep fryers next to the donut fryer. We use
those for the chips. Whenever chips are needed on the fly we put
them in the donut fryer ... it's like *turbo*. Four minutes in the
350 fryer equate to about thirty seconds in the donut fryer (of
course they're going to be less done on the inside that way).

Go get your thermometer. What you've posted so far is uninformed
nonsense, overstated and sounding like some alarmist ignoramus.

Quoted message said:

*I* was told the big fryer runs at 500 F. That's certainly an
exaggeration, but I'd think it's at least 450.

I guarantee you're wrong. That oil would be in flames unless it's
absolutely fresh. The smoke point of oils drop as they get used and
chemically change after a few days. That oil would make foods that would
be utterly inedible because of the scorched flavors and the raw interiors.

Oil heated to more than 400°F would be smoking because the heater
elements (if electric) or burner channels (if gas) have to be hotter
than that to get it to that temperature and to effect fast recovery.
They would be operating at higher than the smoke points of any oils
commercially used from doughnut frying.

You obviously know nothing about the subject and have either been
guessing or playing games.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

While some moron might actually make a fryer that can reach 475 +/-
25, why??

Are you sure it wasn't 375 F, the usual temp for donuts?

I'm sure it's significantly hotter.

So let's see, Mr. Restaurant expert. No thermometer in the unit. No
numbers on the dial and you're "sure it's significantly hotter." Based
on a wonderful imagination...

[censored].

Quoted message said:

I'll see if I can dig up my own
candy/oil thermometer and give it a check tonight.

If you say more than 375 max, you're lying. So far you've been guessing
and doing so rather stupidly in the face of some other, clearly more
informed participants here. Quit the freakin guesswork and try to
actually provide a fact instead of this ridiculous prattle. Go measure
something instead of insisting about a subject that several of us have
had to deal with in our professional lives; 30 years for me of owning
deep fryers and doughnut conveyor-fryers.

Pastorio

Sheldon said:

Andy Katz said:

Thanks for the tips in the previous reply. I'll definitely contact
Albany. There is no protective equipment supplied or suggested. As the
fryers are drained the floors are also cleaned, so they're quite
slippery.

Are you saying they drain the cooking oil onto the floor and then wash
it down the floor drain? If so and they get caught not only will the
EPA slap a lock on the door, they'll be so in debt for the clean up
expence they'll wish they never heard of donuts, because for their
entire lives they'll never get out the hole.

No. There are heavy rubber mats that have to be cleaned, so they're
pulled up, leaving the floors naturally slick. The oil is either
reused or properly recycled.

Andy Katz

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 03:42:44 -0600, "hob" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Having been certified as an expert in several court cases involving deep
fryers, I can state with experience that electric deep fryers are to have UL
or other agency listing, and as such have all the inherent protective
equipment required by UL (e.g., UL 197.)
Further, for many years they have also have been required to be installed
per the national building and fire codes, which have mandatory protective
equipment required in methods, materials, venting, and fire suppression.
(see sections 605 and 610 of the International Fire Code, section 906 of the
IBC, NYCRR 1223, etc.)
And OSHA regulations from Feb of last year now prohibit persons under the
age of 16 from using pressurized fryers, and prohibit them from using any
deep fryers unless the fryers have automatic basket lifts (worker-protection
equipment).

Much of the protective equipment may not be obvious to the casual user,
but there is definitely integrated and code-required protective equipment
for fryers.

And oil heated to near the flashpoint would be almost certainly be subject
to OSHA 29CFR1910.106 which governs flammable liquids and vapors.

Thanks for the comments, Hob. Nevermind Pastorio's nonesense. He
appears to have swung his legs off the wrong side of the pallet this
morning. I'll look up the applicable OSHA reg.

Andy Katz