Recumbent bicycles · Public discussion

Cletus says: "A Bachetta Giro ..."

John Clarke · 2003-03-03T23:35:04+00:00

Cletus, as one of the few people to have first hand ownership knowledge of Giros and P-38s, I find your comments from another post very interesting. "A Bacchetta Giro is a better bike out of the box than the Lightning P- 38 and over $1000 less. I would prefer a Giro over a Phantom because I can get comfortable on it and the seating is more comfotrable and adjustable. It takes a lot of work to get a P-38 in racing condition. I would like better seating but I have adapted to the limited angle of the Lightning seat. " From my readings of these posts over many months, my opinion is that you are extremely knowledgable, and I value your opinion. Without being specific, I can recall a few posts where you mentioned this and that about fixing your P-38. Does the "frame structure" of the P-38 allow it to be tweaked to a performance point where it clearly outperforms the Giro, or can some of those same tweaks be done to the Giro. For example, if you spend 500 tweaking the P-38, and 500 on the Giro, would the Giro still be as good or better? Or, is there limitations with the Giro design that won't ever let it be developed to be as good as a P-38? If you purchased a Giro and spent 500 on it (still 500 less than a P-38), would it be embarrassingly better ? I invite your comments and those from others who responsibly follow this NG. Thanks, John Clarke PS I'm hoping to be visiting Jude M. this weekend to test ride a Giro (and Stratus), so all feedback is most appreciated.

Started by John Clarke · 3 March 2003 · Last activity 12 March 2003 · 29 posts · 2,224 views

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Original section: Recumbent bicycles
Published: 3 March 2003
Last activity: 12 March 2003
Original author: John Clarke
Posts: 29
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 2,224
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Commuting Hydration Inner tubes Punctures and flats Rear derailleurs

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Original post
John Clarke
Archived post

3 March 2003, 23:35 UTC #1

Cletus, as one of the few people to have first hand ownership knowledge of Giros and P-38s, I find
your comments from another post very interesting.
"A Bacchetta Giro is a better bike out of the box than the Lightning P- 38 and over $1000 less. I
would prefer a Giro over a Phantom because I can get comfortable on it and the seating is more
comfotrable and adjustable. It takes a lot of work to get a P-38 in racing condition. I would like
better seating but I have adapted to the limited angle of the Lightning seat. "
From my readings of these posts over many months, my opinion is that you are extremely knowledgable,
and I value your opinion. Without being specific, I can recall a few posts where you mentioned this
and that about fixing your P-38. Does the "frame structure" of the P-38 allow it to be tweaked to a
performance point where it clearly outperforms the Giro, or can some of those same tweaks be done to
the Giro. For example, if you spend 500 tweaking the P-38, and 500 on the Giro, would the Giro still
be as good or better? Or, is there limitations with the Giro design that won't ever let it be
developed to be as good as a P-38? If you purchased a Giro and spent 500 on it (still 500 less than
a P-38), would it be embarrassingly better ?
I invite your comments and those from others who responsibly follow this NG.
Thanks, John Clarke
PS I'm hoping to be visiting Jude M. this weekend to test ride a Giro (and Stratus), so all feedback
is most appreciated.

Report
Ben Fox
Archived post

4 March 2003, 03:05 UTC #2

I have owned 2 P-38's,2 Stealth's and a Giro[for 1 week] No offense to Cletus ,but the Giro is no
P-38, The Giro was the slowest bike I ever rode ,with the exception of the Bike-E and the Wave. The
Giro is a very nice bike though ,I didn't keep mine because the seat gave me recumbent butt as do
all high BB Rans type seats. The seat adjustment on the P-38 is for tilt only. The reason it doesn't
adjust forward and back is to keep the riders weight in the proper place. The tilt is not drastic
because the P-38 is designed to be ridden in a more upright position to optimize power to the
pedals,which it does very well.[Much like the Tour Easy] Cletus appartently has had some problems
with his P-38,but his is a Voyager,which might account for his problems. The one I had before and
the one I have now are perfect,I have had no problems. The Lightning customer service has been the
subject of a few complaints on this N.G., but I have had no problems there either. Ben Fox
"John Clarke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Cletus, as one of the few people to have first hand ownership knowledge of Giros

and
Quoted message said:
P-38s, I find your comments from another post very interesting.
"A Bacchetta Giro is a better bike out of the box than the Lightning P- 38 and over $1000 less. I
would prefer a Giro over a Phantom because I can get comfortable on it and the seating is more
comfotrable and adjustable. It takes a lot of work to get a P-38 in racing condition. I would like
better seating but I have adapted to the limited angle of the Lightning seat. "
From my readings of these posts over many months, my opinion is that you

are
Quoted message said:
extremely knowledgable, and I value your opinion. Without being specific,

I
Quoted message said:
can recall a few posts where you mentioned this and that about fixing your P-38. Does the "frame
structure" of the P-38 allow it to be tweaked to a performance point where it clearly outperforms
the Giro, or can some of those same tweaks be done to the Giro. For example, if you spend 500
tweaking the P-38, and 500 on the Giro, would the Giro still be as good or better? Or, is there
limitations with the Giro design that won't ever let

it
Quoted message said:
be developed to be as good as a P-38? If you purchased a Giro and spent

500
Quoted message said:
on it (still 500 less than a P-38), would it be embarrassingly better ?
I invite your comments and those from others who responsibly follow this

NG.
Quoted message said:

Thanks, John Clarke
PS I'm hoping to be visiting Jude M. this weekend to test ride a Giro (and Stratus), so all
feedback is most appreciated.

Report
Cletus D . Lee
Archived post

4 March 2003, 04:04 UTC #3

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
Cletus, as one of the few people to have first hand ownership knowledge of Giros and P-38s, I find
your comments from another post very interesting.
"A Bacchetta Giro is a better bike out of the box than the Lightning P- 38 and over $1000 less. I
would prefer a Giro over a Phantom because I can get comfortable on it and the seating is more
comfotrable and adjustable. It takes a lot of work to get a P-38 in racing condition. I would like
better seating but I have adapted to the limited angle of the Lightning seat. "
From my readings of these posts over many months, my opinion is that you are extremely
knowledgable, and I value your opinion.
Well, Extremely opinionated.
At present, I'd rate my P-38 Voyager and Bacchetta Giro about dead even. The Voyager has 6000 miles
and since September, the Giro has 1670
The Voyager did not become a pleasure to ride until I replaced the crappy OEM Ritchey Logic brake
levers last month. I was never able to lock the rear wheel until the latest brake system was added.
The Giro can lock w/ no problem.
Besides changing out the Giro Wheel set (which I almost managed to do until I found the ChrisKing
hub interfered with the beefy Giro front fork), there is little that I have found to change on the
Giro Certainly, the Giro would be helped with an upgrade on the brakes and shifters but that doesn't
help in the speed department. The OEM one work fine for me.
Here's why I now rate them the same:
===================================================
Voyager:
As delivered: Front: 56-46-30 Suntour Cranks w/ Shimano Ultegera derailleur. Rear 12-34 Shimano
9-spd w/ Shamino XT rear derailleur
Brakes: Front: Odyessy 'A' Rear: Shimano XT Levers: Ritchey Logic
Wheels: Hubs: Simonao XT Rims: Sun Rear 559 Front 349
Other 'features'
Lock-down Tilt Steering volumn Front Suspension
Voyager Package F-40 package (less Hayes rear disk brake)
What I added HP-Velotechnic fenders Tubus Cargo rear rack RAM Mount for GPS RAM Mount for Digital
camera Zvon from the Czech Republic.
What I improved:
Replaced the 16" suspension fork with a 20" std non suspension for wide enough for fenders.
Replaced Lightning 3/4" foam seat pad with ThermaRest stadium seat pad (inflatable
Added foam pipe insulation to rear seat cross bar to pad my neck where the std lightning seat
interfered
Replaced the Voyager seat posts and clamps with std Lightning seat bolts. Replaced the Voyager seat
mesh three times before I got one that did not separate at the Velcro butt closure.
Replaced the 1/8" Lightning seat lacing with 4mm Mammut accessory cord Replaced the seat lacing
locks with std spring loaded cord lock.
Replaced brakes with Shimano XTR (2003) front and rear with matching levers (This is the best single
improvement I have made to the bike
Replaced the rear drive train with 11-34T Shimano and the reat derailleur with Shimano XTR
(Mega range)
Replaced the front wheel with ChrisKing hub and Velocity rim
Tires: Original: Primo Comet 26X1" & 16X1 3/8"
Transition: Schwalbe Marathon Vredestein S-Licks
Now: Schwalbe Stelvios
======================================================
Giro: See X-Eyed Website for as Delivered equipment.
What I replaced:
Kenda Kwest tires with Vredestein S-Licks front and Schwalbe Stelvios rear
Rear wheel with ChrisKing Hub and Velocity Rim (Part of wheel set above)
What I Added
HP-Velotechnic fenders RANS HT rear rack X-Eyed Midship Rack for Bacchetta Fastback Hydration system
RAM Mount for GPS
--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Report
Freewheeling
Archived post

4 March 2003, 12:02 UTC #4

Cletus:
So, just out of curiosity what will you ride on the MoM? I assume it'll be the Voyager because you
can transport it easier.
--
--Scott [email hidden] Cut the "tail" to send email.
"Cletus D. Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
Cletus, as one of the few people to have first hand ownership knowledge of Giros

and
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
P-38s, I find your comments from another post very interesting.
"A Bacchetta Giro is a better bike out of the box than the Lightning P- 38 and over $1000 less.
I would prefer a Giro over a Phantom because I can get comfortable on it and the seating is more
comfotrable and adjustable. It takes a lot of work to get a P-38 in racing condition. I would
like better seating but I have adapted to the limited angle of the Lightning seat. "
From my readings of these posts over many months, my opinion is that you

are
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
extremely knowledgable, and I value your opinion.
Well, Extremely opinionated.
At present, I'd rate my P-38 Voyager and Bacchetta Giro about dead even. The Voyager has 6000
miles and since September, the Giro has 1670
The Voyager did not become a pleasure to ride until I replaced the crappy OEM Ritchey Logic brake
levers last month. I was never able to lock the rear wheel until the latest brake system was
added. The Giro can lock w/ no problem.
Besides changing out the Giro Wheel set (which I almost managed to do until I found the ChrisKing
hub interfered with the beefy Giro front fork), there is little that I have found to change on the
Giro Certainly, the Giro would be helped with an upgrade on the brakes and shifters but that
doesn't help in the speed department. The OEM one work fine for me.
Here's why I now rate them the same:
===================================================
Voyager:
As delivered: Front: 56-46-30 Suntour Cranks w/ Shimano Ultegera derailleur. Rear 12-34 Shimano
9-spd w/ Shamino XT rear derailleur
Brakes: Front: Odyessy 'A' Rear: Shimano XT Levers: Ritchey Logic
Wheels: Hubs: Simonao XT Rims: Sun Rear 559 Front 349
Other 'features'
Lock-down Tilt Steering volumn Front Suspension
Voyager Package F-40 package (less Hayes rear disk brake)
What I added HP-Velotechnic fenders Tubus Cargo rear rack RAM Mount for GPS RAM Mount for Digital
camera Zvon from the Czech Republic.
What I improved:
Replaced the 16" suspension fork with a 20" std non suspension for wide enough for fenders.
Replaced Lightning 3/4" foam seat pad with ThermaRest stadium seat pad (inflatable
Added foam pipe insulation to rear seat cross bar to pad my neck where the std lightning seat
interfered
Replaced the Voyager seat posts and clamps with std Lightning seat bolts. Replaced the Voyager
seat mesh three times before I got one that did not separate at the Velcro butt closure.
Replaced the 1/8" Lightning seat lacing with 4mm Mammut accessory cord Replaced the seat lacing
locks with std spring loaded cord lock.
Replaced brakes with Shimano XTR (2003) front and rear with matching levers (This is the best
single improvement I have made to the bike
Replaced the rear drive train with 11-34T Shimano and the reat derailleur with Shimano XTR
(Mega range)
Replaced the front wheel with ChrisKing hub and Velocity rim
Tires: Original: Primo Comet 26X1" & 16X1 3/8"
Transition: Schwalbe Marathon Vredestein S-Licks
Now: Schwalbe Stelvios
======================================================
Giro: See X-Eyed Website for as Delivered equipment.
What I replaced:
Kenda Kwest tires with Vredestein S-Licks front and Schwalbe Stelvios rear
Rear wheel with ChrisKing Hub and Velocity Rim (Part of wheel set above)
What I Added
HP-Velotechnic fenders RANS HT rear rack X-Eyed Midship Rack for Bacchetta Fastback Hydration
system RAM Mount for GPS
--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Report
Cletus Lee
Archived post

4 March 2003, 13:18 UTC #5

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
Cletus:
So, just out of curiosity what will you ride on the MoM? I assume it'll be the Voyager because you
can transport it easier.
Until I can fit the Giro in a suitcase, I will be riding the Voyager whenever I travel by air.
MoM is May 25th And it looks like I will be in this country so MoM is on my Calendar. Is
it on yours?
--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Report
Mikael Seierup
Archived post

4 March 2003, 13:32 UTC #6

"Cletus Lee" skrev...
Quoted message said:
MoM is May 25th And it looks like I will be in this country so MoM is on my Calendar. Is it
on yours?
Aha... a sure harbinger of Spring. Cletus is challenging people to go to MOM. ;-) (However I dont do
stuff that has "mountains", "misery", "hell" etc. in the name)
Regards Mikael

Report
Cletus Lee
Archived post

4 March 2003, 13:48 UTC #7

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:

"Cletus Lee" skrev...
Quoted message said:
MoM is May 25th And it looks like I will be in this country so MoM is on my Calendar. Is it on
yours?
Aha... a sure harbinger of Spring. Cletus is challenging people to go to MOM. ;-) (However I dont
do stuff that has "mountains", "misery", "hell" etc. in the name)
Only challenge this year is to myself. Scott was a participant (and finisher) last year.
Except for two 'hills' it is an easy ride.
--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Report
Cletus Lee
Archived post

4 March 2003, 14:33 UTC #8

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
I have owned 2 P-38's,2 Stealth's and a Giro[for 1 week] No offense to Cletus ,but the Giro is no
P-38, The Giro was the slowest bike I ever rode ,with the exception of the Bike-E and the Wave.
The Giro is a very nice bike though ,I didn't keep mine because the seat gave me recumbent butt as
do all high BB Rans type seats.

It is odd that my experience is just the opposite. When I first got the P-38 (with the 16" wheel) it
was the slowest bike I ever rode. (I persisted. It got better. I got better.) The Lightning seat is
the only seat that ever gave me R-butt. Relative to the seat, the BB height on both bikes are very
nearly the same for me. The Giro seat is higher off the ground as is the BB. So unless you are very
long legged, the BB height should not be the issue for you.
If you will notice in my Giro photos, I keep my Giro seat fairly upright though not as much as the
P-38 where I am limited by the play of the seat mounting bolts in the in the seat frame and the
rigid seat struts.
--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Report
Robert Siegel
Archived post

4 March 2003, 16:19 UTC #9

FWIW: My P-38 XT seat was the most comfortable recumbent seat I've ever ridden. My body "fit into"
... not "on" ...the P-38 perfectly. I loved the bike. So why do I ride a GRR Ti Rush? Answer: riding
it is "easier" ... it's easier to control ... easier to balance and direct .... and far less
demanding of my attention. Also it is a lot easier on the Rush to start up from dead stops, even
uphill. The Rush is a fast-enough bike ...but ... I believe a faired P-38 is faster than a faired Ti
Rush, especially uphill. "Cletus Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
I have owned 2 P-38's,2 Stealth's and a Giro[for 1 week] No offense to Cletus ,but the Giro is
no P-38, The Giro was the slowest

bike
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
I ever rode ,with the exception of the Bike-E and the Wave. The Giro is a very nice bike though
,I didn't keep mine because the seat gave me recumbent butt as do all high BB Rans type seats.

It is odd that my experience is just the opposite. When I first got the

P-38 (with the 16"
Quoted message said:
wheel) it was the slowest bike I ever rode. (I persisted. It got better. I

got better.) The
Quoted message said:
Lightning seat is the only seat that ever gave me R-butt. Relative to the

seat, the BB height
Quoted message said:
on both bikes are very nearly the same for me. The Giro seat is higher off

the ground as is the
Quoted message said:
BB. So unless you are very long legged, the BB height should not be the

issue for you.
Quoted message said:

If you will notice in my Giro photos, I keep my Giro seat fairly upright

though not as much as
Quoted message said:
the P-38 where I am limited by the play of the seat mounting bolts in the

in the seat frame and
Quoted message said:
the rigid seat struts.
--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Report
Mike S
Archived post

4 March 2003, 19:17 UTC #10

I think the answer depends on what you want the bike to do. I have ridden Ben Fox's P-38. It is a
very nice machine (it makes him a heck of a rider which takes quite a machine to do!). I have ridden
other P-38s and they have been equally nice. I have ridden the Giro and was impressed with it too.
But they have different feels and (IMHO) different purposes. The Giro is a nice all around bike
(like the V-Rex). For a SWB I thought it was user friendly. It is a decent climber, well handling
all purpose bike. It has the most current design features. The P-38 has a harsher ride, takes a
little longer to get the feel for, and isn't as user friendly. It also seems a little outdated. But,
even for my limited engine, I could outclimb and outspeed the Giro on a P-38 anyday. I might not be
able to ride as far on the bike, since its stiff frame transmits harshness to the rider, hence
creates fatigue, but for the miles I covered I would no doubt be moving. I agree with Gator Bob that
the P-38 seat was very comfortable. If I wanted an all around bike for commuting, local rides and
some open country distance I would lean to the Giro. If I wanted speed and performance, the P-38 is
the one, even considering the extra money. It isn't a comfort, forgiving bike, but it is a high
performance bike with a more traditional setup (as opposed to the low racers).

Report
Bethf
Archived post

4 March 2003, 22:33 UTC #11

"Mikael Seierup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Cletus Lee" skrev...
Quoted message said:
MoM is May 25th And it looks like I will be in this country so MoM is on

my Calendar. Is it on
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
yours?
Aha... a sure harbinger of Spring. Cletus is challenging people to go to

MOM. ;-)
Quoted message said:
(However I dont do stuff that has "mountains", "misery", "hell" etc. in

the name)
how about "Hell of alot of naked women at the mountains?"

Report
Cletus Lee
Archived post

4 March 2003, 22:33 UTC #12

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
how about "Hell of alot of naked women at the mountains?"

Where can I sign up for that ride??
Will you be there?
--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Report
Cletus D . Lee
Archived post

5 March 2003, 03:49 UTC #13

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
,I didn't keep mine because the seat gave me recumbent butt as do all high BB Rans type seats
I just measured the BB and seat heights of both my bikes Giro: BB = 26.75" Top of seat= 24"
Difference= 2.75" P-38: BB = 25.5" Top of seat= 21.5" Difference= 4"
--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Report
Cletus D . Lee
Archived post

5 March 2003, 03:49 UTC #14

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
Until I can fit the Giro in a suitcase, I will be riding the Voyager whenever I travel by air.

Of Course, if the Bacchetta Boys decide to show up, I might have to pay some excess baggage fees,
just so I can fit in.
--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Report
Bethf
Archived post

5 March 2003, 17:17 UTC #15

"Cletus Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
how about "Hell of alot of naked women at the mountains?"

Where can I sign up for that ride??
Ask Bob Siegel.
Quoted message said:
Will you be there?
Me and my landscape butt will pass.

Report
John W
Archived post

5 March 2003, 18:48 UTC #16

Instead of a Giro why don't you get a Strada. You will have a bent that is as fast as a P-38 and
costs $1800 versus $2600 for the P-38, and you will not have to upgrade the Strada. Better yet you
could buy a Bacchetta Corsa for the same price as the P-38 and you get an M-5 seat and super
components and wheels and I bet its every bit as fast if not faster than P-38.
John
"John Clarke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Cletus, as one of the few people to have first hand ownership knowledge of Giros

and
Quoted message said:
P-38s, I find your comments from another post very interesting.
"A Bacchetta Giro is a better bike out of the box than the Lightning P- 38 and over $1000 less. I
would prefer a Giro over a Phantom because I can get comfortable on it and the seating is more
comfotrable and adjustable. It takes a lot of work to get a P-38 in racing condition. I would like
better seating but I have adapted to the limited angle of the Lightning seat. "
From my readings of these posts over many months, my opinion is that you

are
Quoted message said:
extremely knowledgable, and I value your opinion. Without being specific,

I
Quoted message said:
can recall a few posts where you mentioned this and that about fixing your P-38. Does the "frame
structure" of the P-38 allow it to be tweaked to a performance point where it clearly outperforms
the Giro, or can some of those same tweaks be done to the Giro. For example, if you spend 500
tweaking the P-38, and 500 on the Giro, would the Giro still be as good or better? Or, is there
limitations with the Giro design that won't ever let

it
Quoted message said:
be developed to be as good as a P-38? If you purchased a Giro and spent

500
Quoted message said:
on it (still 500 less than a P-38), would it be embarrassingly better ?
I invite your comments and those from others who responsibly follow this

NG.
Quoted message said:

Thanks, John Clarke
PS I'm hoping to be visiting Jude M. this weekend to test ride a Giro (and Stratus), so all
feedback is most appreciated.

Report
John W
Archived post

5 March 2003, 18:48 UTC #17

I think he is just stating that the Rans seat on their high BB (Vrex, Rocket, etc.; Stratus would be
a Rans low BB bent) bents gives him recumbent butt. Whereas the seat on the high BB Lightning does
not give him recumbent butt. I do not see where he is claiming anything about the seat to BB
difference causing the problem. I think it is the seat that is causing his recumbent butt. Seems
like he also has problems with the Giro seat.
John
"Cletus D. Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
,I didn't keep mine because the seat gave me recumbent butt as do all high BB Rans type seats
I just measured the BB and seat heights of both my bikes Giro: BB = 26.75" Top of seat= 24"
Difference= 2.75" P-38: BB = 25.5" Top of seat= 21.5" Difference= 4"
--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Report
Robert Siegel
Archived post

5 March 2003, 23:02 UTC #18

I test rode a Corsa and and Aero twice. The P-38 is more comfortable, more "rideable" and a better
"fit" ... for me, that is. But not for lots of other folks. So what else is new in recumbency? "John
W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Instead of a Giro why don't you get a Strada. You will have a bent that is as fast as a P-38 and
costs $1800 versus $2600 for the P-38, and you will not have to upgrade the Strada. Better yet you
could buy a Bacchetta Corsa for the same price as the P-38 and you get an M-5 seat and super

components
Quoted message said:
and wheels and I bet its every bit as fast if not faster than P-38.
John

Report
Robert Siegel
Archived post

5 March 2003, 23:02 UTC #19

Sadly, the women's nekkid bike team has a new manager. But not me. ;-((
Gator Bob Siegel
"BethF" <[email hidden]> wrote > > In article > > > how about "Hell of alot of naked women at the
mountains?"
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:

Where can I sign up for that ride??
Ask Bob Siegel.

Report
Ben Fox
Archived post

6 March 2003, 03:03 UTC #20

Used P-38's can be found for a heck of a lot less than $2600. I paid $1400. for my 2000 model Campy
model. Ben Fox "John W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
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Instead of a Giro why don't you get a Strada. You will have a bent that is as fast as a P-38 and
costs $1800 versus $2600 for the P-38, and you will not have to upgrade the Strada. Better yet you
could buy a Bacchetta Corsa for the same price as the P-38 and you get an M-5 seat and super

components
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and wheels and I bet its every bit as fast if not faster than P-38.
John
"John Clarke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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Cletus, as one of the few people to have first hand ownership knowledge of Giros

and
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P-38s, I find your comments from another post very interesting.
"A Bacchetta Giro is a better bike out of the box than the Lightning P- 38 and over $1000 less.
I would prefer a Giro over a Phantom because I can get comfortable on it and the seating is more
comfotrable and adjustable. It takes a lot of work to get a P-38 in racing condition. I would
like better seating but I have adapted to the limited angle of the Lightning seat. "
From my readings of these posts over many months, my opinion is that you

are
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extremely knowledgable, and I value your opinion. Without being

specific,
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I
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can recall a few posts where you mentioned this and that about fixing

your
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P-38. Does the "frame structure" of the P-38 allow it to be tweaked to a performance point
where it clearly outperforms the Giro, or can some of those same tweaks be done to the Giro.
For example, if you spend 500 tweaking the P-38, and 500 on the Giro, would the Giro still be
as good

or
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better? Or, is there limitations with the Giro design that won't ever

let
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it
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be developed to be as good as a P-38? If you purchased a Giro and spent

500
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on it (still 500 less than a P-38), would it be embarrassingly better ?
I invite your comments and those from others who responsibly follow this

NG.
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Thanks, John Clarke
PS I'm hoping to be visiting Jude M. this weekend to test ride a Giro

(and
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Stratus), so all feedback is most appreciated.

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