Clicking fixie

David Huggins-Daines at [email hidden] wrote on
6/8/05 8:02 AM:

Quoted message said:

On my fixed-gear bike I've been getting a persistent, annoying clicking
noise when pedaling hard or climbing out of the saddle. It always
happens at the same place in the pedal stroke, with the right crank at
about 20 degrees. There's also a less pronounced click with the left
crank at that position.

Can anyone offer speculation on what might be causing this? I put a new
chain and cog on about 200 miles ago, which seemed to tone down the
clicking a bit but it's now back with a vengeance.

I'd start by removing the pedals and regreasing the threads. Might also
regrease the pedal bearings if you can access them. If that doesn't have an
effect, try pulling the bb and regreasing the bb threads. Then I'd
reinstall the cranks and make sure everything was cinched down properly.
Still noise? I'd redo the chainring bolts with new grease.

That's usually been effective for me.

Hope that helps,

-- Jim

--

CycloFiend

to reply directly, replace the dashes to create the name above

David Huggins-Daines said:

On my fixed-gear bike I've been getting a persistent, annoying clicking
noise when pedaling hard or climbing out of the saddle. It always
happens at the same place in the pedal stroke, with the right crank at
about 20 degrees. There's also a less pronounced click with the left
crank at that position.

Can anyone offer speculation on what might be causing this? I put a new
chain and cog on about 200 miles ago, which seemed to tone down the
clicking a bit but it's now back with a vengeance.

The answer, likely, can be found here:

http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/creaking_and_squeaking.shtml

David,

On my fixed gear, this problem was caused by an out of round chainring.
What would happen is that as the chain goes from loose to tight during the
pedal stroke, the chain vibration frequency would ramp up and I would feel
and hear it as a kind of grinding sound at a certain spot in the pedal
revolution. This was most pronounced when putting a lot of force on the
chain as with climbing or pedaling hard. I just loosened up the chain a
little so it wasn't so tight in the tight spot. This helped but didn't cure
it. I just live with it now. One day I may try buying another chainring to
see if I can get one that is more round.

John.

"David Huggins-Daines" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On my fixed-gear bike I've been getting a persistent, annoying clicking
noise when pedaling hard or climbing out of the saddle. It always
happens at the same place in the pedal stroke, with the right crank at
about 20 degrees. There's also a less pronounced click with the left
crank at that position.

Can anyone offer speculation on what might be causing this? I put a new
chain and cog on about 200 miles ago, which seemed to tone down the
clicking a bit but it's now back with a vengeance.

David Huggins-Daines said:

On my fixed-gear bike I've been getting a persistent, annoying clicking
noise when pedaling hard or climbing out of the saddle. It always
happens at the same place in the pedal stroke, with the right crank at
about 20 degrees. There's also a less pronounced click with the left
crank at that position.

Can anyone offer speculation on what might be causing this? I put a new
chain and cog on about 200 miles ago, which seemed to tone down the
clicking a bit but it's now back with a vengeance.

Is this with an Ashtabula crank or a three-piece? I've heard such a
click on an Ashtabula (or BMX) once in a while. I got rid of it with
a little oil or grease on the sprocket peg most of the time, and
judicious removal of the lip that had formed on the peg in one case.
With a three-piece crank, I'd be looking for a possible loose BB in
the frame, and I'd closely inspect everything in the BB area for
cracks.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

kevinkiller said:

On my fixed gear, this problem was caused by an out of round chainring.

You just reminded me of the Stupid Trick Of The Month from the last
batch of city auction bikes. One of them was set up as a single
speed...with a Biopace sprocket on the crank.There was a certain
amount of variation in chain slack as the cranks rotated...
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

"Cyclofiend" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David Huggins-Daines at [email hidden] wrote on
6/8/05 8:02 AM:

Quoted message said:

On my fixed-gear bike I've been getting a persistent, annoying clicking
noise when pedaling hard or climbing out of the saddle. It always
happens at the same place in the pedal stroke, with the right crank at
about 20 degrees. There's also a less pronounced click with the left
crank at that position.

Can anyone offer speculation on what might be causing this? I put a new
chain and cog on about 200 miles ago, which seemed to tone down the
clicking a bit but it's now back with a vengeance.

I'd start by removing the pedals and regreasing the threads. Might also
regrease the pedal bearings if you can access them. If that doesn't have
an
effect, try pulling the bb and regreasing the bb threads. Then I'd
reinstall the cranks and make sure everything was cinched down properly.
Still noise? I'd redo the chainring bolts with new grease.

That's usually been effective for me.

Hope that helps,

-- Jim

--

CycloFiend

to reply directly, replace the dashes to create the name above

Sounds like the bottom bracket, check to see if it's rotates smooth without
the crank on, but before you do that, remove the chain and check for a tight
link.
-tom

Werehatrack said:

David Huggins-Daines said:

Can anyone offer speculation on what might be causing this? I put a new
chain and cog on about 200 miles ago, which seemed to tone down the
clicking a bit but it's now back with a vengeance.

With a three-piece crank, I'd be looking for a possible loose BB in
the frame, and I'd closely inspect everything in the BB area for
cracks.

Three-piece (Shimano FC1055 cranks on a UN72 BB)... Yes, this sounds
like a reasonable place to start looking, along with the chainring's
alignment and roundness.

Of course, I'm secretly hoping that the frame is broken so that I can
justify buying a new one.

David Huggins-Daines said:

On my fixed-gear bike I've been getting a persistent, annoying clicking
noise when pedaling hard or climbing out of the saddle. It always
happens at the same place in the pedal stroke, with the right crank at
about 20 degrees. There's also a less pronounced click with the left
crank at that position.

Can anyone offer speculation on what might be causing this? I put a new
chain and cog on about 200 miles ago, which seemed to tone down the
clicking a bit but it's now back with a vengeance.

two other sources for this mysterious clicking that you could investigate-
i had a similar click lower down in the pedal stroke. i changed the bb, reinstalled the cranks, bolts etc to no avail. then i broke a spoke on my front wheel and swapped out to a different wheelset-voila-no more click ???? so apparently putting a lot of force into the rear wheel climbing can cause the spokes to click where they cross over in the rear wheel, under load, when the wheel deforms a bit. i called the wheel maker and they confirmed that this happens. they suggested lubing the crossover point in the rear spokes and the nipple/rim "joints" in the rear rim for a similar reason. you might try that.

In article <[email hidden]>,

David Huggins-Daines said:

On my fixed-gear bike I've been getting a persistent, annoying clicking
noise when pedaling hard or climbing out of the saddle. It always
happens at the same place in the pedal stroke, with the right crank at
about 20 degrees. There's also a less pronounced click with the left
crank at that position.

stand on your pedals while stationary and the pedals at 9 & 3. then
move the pedals to 3 & 9 (rotate them 180 degrees) without putting
pressure on them. stand again.

then repeat, but do it standing on the ends of your crank arms instead
of the pedals. if they click on the pedals but not the crank arms, pull
off the pedals and regrease the threads. if that doesn't work, rebuild
the pedals.

if they click both times, make sure the crank arms are suitably tight.
if they are, pull the crank arms, pull the BB and either grease the
threads or coat them with a layer of plumber's tape. (i'd do the
grease thing first and then the plumber's tape if that doesn't work.)

if they don't click EITHER time, pull apart the chainrings/spider on the
right side, grease the chainring bolts, nuts and faces and reassemble.

if THAT doesn't fix it you're well within your rights to buy a new
bike. and no gf/wife in the world would dare convict you.

Werehatrack said:

kevinkiller said:

On my fixed gear, this problem was caused by an out of round chainring.

You just reminded me of the Stupid Trick Of The Month from the last
batch of city auction bikes. One of them was set up as a single
speed...with a Biopace sprocket on the crank.There was a certain
amount of variation in chain slack as the cranks rotated...

Dear Werehatrack,

Hmmm . . .

[Damon Rinard]

" . . . you can adjust the chain tension about as even with
BioPace chainrings as you get with most round chain rings on
a fixed gear. When the BioPace major axis is horizontal, the
slack you think the minor axis would create is almost
exactly taken up by the major axis consuming more chain by
sticking out farther toward the front. And when the major
axis is vertical, the tension you think that would put on
the chain is nearly perfectly removed by the minor axis
consuming less chain."

Damon Rinard

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/34a6ef44b34cea9f?dmode=source&hl=en

[Sheldon Brown]

I observed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Several of my fixed-gear bikes have Biopace chainrings, and I've not
found my downhill max RPM to be limited by this.

David L. Johnson queried:

Quoted message said:

How do you manage the chain tension?

It doesn't require any particular "managing." A 42 tooth
chainring engages 21 rollers/teeth whatever its shape. The
only thing that changes is the angle formed by the straight
runs of chain between the sprockets. This does lead to a
slight variation in chain tension, but not enough to be a
problem in practice.

All of my fixed-gear Biopace setups use "road" rings whch
are not as non-round as the MTB/touring type. I mostly use
42s, though I use a 52 on the tandem (with 42 Biopace synch
rings!)

Sheldon "Variable Radius, Constant Circumference" Brown

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/445f40963e1c1e5f?dmode=source&hl=en

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

kevinkiller said:

On my fixed gear, this problem was caused by an out of round chainring.

You just reminded me of the Stupid Trick Of The Month from the last
batch of city auction bikes. One of them was set up as a single
speed...with a Biopace sprocket on the crank.There was a certain
amount of variation in chain slack as the cranks rotated...

Dear Werehatrack,

Hmmm . . .

[Damon Rinard]

" . . . you can adjust the chain tension about as even with
BioPace chainrings as you get with most round chain rings on
a fixed gear. When the BioPace major axis is horizontal, the
slack you think the minor axis would create is almost
exactly taken up by the major axis consuming more chain by
sticking out farther toward the front. And when the major
axis is vertical, the tension you think that would put on
the chain is nearly perfectly removed by the minor axis
consuming less chain."

There's no label on the beast. I wonder if it's a real Shimano or one
of those Suntour imitations? It's definitely not round, though, and
while the slack variance isn't as big as an off-center round sprocket
would produce, there is enough to see.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

H. Guy said:

if THAT doesn't fix it you're well within your rights to buy a new
bike. and no gf/wife in the world would dare convict you.

Pfui. Some of them need far less reason or evidence to indict,
prosecute and convict (in one step) than that.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

kevinkiller said:

On my fixed gear, this problem was caused by an out of round
chainring.

You just reminded me of the Stupid Trick Of The Month from the last
batch of city auction bikes. One of them was set up as a single
speed...with a Biopace sprocket on the crank.There was a certain
amount of variation in chain slack as the cranks rotated...

Dear Werehatrack,

Hmmm . . .

[Damon Rinard]

" . . . you can adjust the chain tension about as even with
BioPace chainrings as you get with most round chain rings on
a fixed gear. When the BioPace major axis is horizontal, the
slack you think the minor axis would create is almost
exactly taken up by the major axis consuming more chain by
sticking out farther toward the front. And when the major
axis is vertical, the tension you think that would put on
the chain is nearly perfectly removed by the minor axis
consuming less chain."

Damon Rinard

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/34a6ef44b34cea9f?dmode=source&hl=en

[Sheldon Brown]

I observed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Several of my fixed-gear bikes have Biopace chainrings, and I've not
found my downhill max RPM to be limited by this.

David L. Johnson queried:

Quoted message said:

How do you manage the chain tension?

It doesn't require any particular "managing." A 42 tooth
chainring engages 21 rollers/teeth whatever its shape. The
only thing that changes is the angle formed by the straight
runs of chain between the sprockets. This does lead to a
slight variation in chain tension, but not enough to be a
problem in practice.

All of my fixed-gear Biopace setups use "road" rings whch
are not as non-round as the MTB/touring type. I mostly use
42s, though I use a 52 on the tandem (with 42 Biopace synch
rings!)

Sheldon "Variable Radius, Constant Circumference" Brown

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/445f40963e1c1e5f?dmode=source&hl=en

I wish I knew this before converting to round chainrings on my singlespeed.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Phil said:

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:11:47 GMT, "kevinkiller"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

> On my fixed gear, this problem was caused by an out of round
> chainring.

You just reminded me of the Stupid Trick Of The Month from the last
batch of city auction bikes. One of them was set up as a single
speed...with a Biopace sprocket on the crank.There was a certain
amount of variation in chain slack as the cranks rotated...

Dear Werehatrack,

Hmmm . . .

[Damon Rinard]

" . . . you can adjust the chain tension about as even with
BioPace chainrings as you get with most round chain rings on
a fixed gear. When the BioPace major axis is horizontal, the
slack you think the minor axis would create is almost
exactly taken up by the major axis consuming more chain by
sticking out farther toward the front. And when the major
axis is vertical, the tension you think that would put on
the chain is nearly perfectly removed by the minor axis
consuming less chain."

Damon Rinard

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/34a6ef44b34cea9f?dmode=source&hl=en

[Sheldon Brown]

I observed:

Quoted message said:

> Several of my fixed-gear bikes have Biopace chainrings, and I've
> not found my downhill max RPM to be limited by this.

David L. Johnson queried:

Quoted message said:

How do you manage the chain tension?

It doesn't require any particular "managing." A 42 tooth
chainring engages 21 rollers/teeth whatever its shape. The
only thing that changes is the angle formed by the straight
runs of chain between the sprockets. This does lead to a
slight variation in chain tension, but not enough to be a
problem in practice.

All of my fixed-gear Biopace setups use "road" rings whch
are not as non-round as the MTB/touring type. I mostly use
42s, though I use a 52 on the tandem (with 42 Biopace synch
rings!)

Sheldon "Variable Radius, Constant Circumference" Brown

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/445f40963e1c1e5f?dmode=source&hl=en

I wish I knew this before converting to round chainrings on my
singlespeed.

Cancel that. I just switched my round to a 52t steel Biopace chainring.
It's out-of-circumference enough to cause enough chain slack for derailment.
I may settle for an in-between chain tension to prevent the slack.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

The first thing I would do would be to grease my handlebar stem.

This may sound strange to some people but it is something that is often
overlooked.

Lewis. (who also rides a fixie)

**********

Squid-in-Training said:

Phil said:

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:30:04 GMT, Werehatrack
<[email hidden]> wrote:
> You just reminded me of the Stupid Trick Of The Month from the last
> batch of city auction bikes. One of them was set up as a single
> speed...with a Biopace sprocket on the crank.There was a certain
> amount of variation in chain slack as the cranks rotated...

Dear Werehatrack,

Hmmm . . .

[Damon Rinard]

" . . . you can adjust the chain tension about as even with
BioPace chainrings as you get with most round chain rings on
a fixed gear.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/34a6ef44b34cea9f?dmode=source&hl=en

[Sheldon Brown]

I observed:

>> Several of my fixed-gear bikes have Biopace chainrings, and I've
>> not found my downhill max RPM to be limited by this.

David L. Johnson queried:

> How do you manage the chain tension?

It doesn't require any particular "managing." A 42 tooth
chainring engages 21 rollers/teeth whatever its shape. The
only thing that changes is the angle formed by the straight
runs of chain between the sprockets. This does lead to a
slight variation in chain tension, but not enough to be a
problem in practice.

All of my fixed-gear Biopace setups use "road" rings whch
are not as non-round as the MTB/touring type. I mostly use
42s, though I use a 52 on the tandem (with 42 Biopace synch
rings!)

Sheldon "Variable Radius, Constant Circumference" Brown

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/445f40963e1c1e5f?dmode=source&hl=en

I wish I knew this before converting to round chainrings on my
singlespeed.

Cancel that. I just switched my round to a 52t steel Biopace chainring.
It's out-of-circumference enough to cause enough chain slack for derailment.
I may settle for an in-between chain tension to prevent the slack.

Your experience mirros what I observed. The chain got just slack
enough at one point that it might have been able to walk off, although
if it had been adjusted better, it might have been acceptable. There
was variation, though. Widen just the base of a trapezoid without
changing the distance between the base and top, and the sides have to
get longer.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

Squid-in-Training said:

Phil said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:30:04 GMT, Werehatrack
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> You just reminded me of the Stupid Trick Of The Month from the
>> last batch of city auction bikes. One of them was set up as a
>> single speed...with a Biopace sprocket on the crank.There was a
>> certain amount of variation in chain slack as the cranks
>> rotated...
>
> Dear Werehatrack,
>
> Hmmm . . .
>
> [Damon Rinard]
>
> " . . . you can adjust the chain tension about as even with
> BioPace chainrings as you get with most round chain rings on
> a fixed gear.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/34a6ef44b34cea9f?dmode=source&hl=en
>
> [Sheldon Brown]
>
> I observed:
>
>>> Several of my fixed-gear bikes have Biopace chainrings, and I've
>>> not found my downhill max RPM to be limited by this.
>
> David L. Johnson queried:
>
>> How do you manage the chain tension?
>
> It doesn't require any particular "managing." A 42 tooth
> chainring engages 21 rollers/teeth whatever its shape. The
> only thing that changes is the angle formed by the straight
> runs of chain between the sprockets. This does lead to a
> slight variation in chain tension, but not enough to be a
> problem in practice.
>
> All of my fixed-gear Biopace setups use "road" rings whch
> are not as non-round as the MTB/touring type. I mostly use
> 42s, though I use a 52 on the tandem (with 42 Biopace synch
> rings!)
>
> Sheldon "Variable Radius, Constant Circumference" Brown
>
> http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/445f40963e1c1e5f?dmode=source&hl=en

I wish I knew this before converting to round chainrings on my
singlespeed.

Cancel that. I just switched my round to a 52t steel Biopace
chainring. It's out-of-circumference enough to cause enough chain
slack for derailment. I may settle for an in-between chain tension
to prevent the slack.

Your experience mirros what I observed. The chain got just slack
enough at one point that it might have been able to walk off, although
if it had been adjusted better, it might have been acceptable. There
was variation, though. Widen just the base of a trapezoid without
changing the distance between the base and top, and the sides have to
get longer.

Trapezoid - that's the shape description I was looking for. Fortunately, I
robbed a 52t round off a junker crankset at work today. Looks like I won't
have to worry about chain drop while going over the bouncy stuff.

By the way, FixMeUp is massively useful... will post a new thread about it.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Neil Brooks said:

The answer, likely, can be found here:

http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/creaking_and_squeaking.shtml

Man. Looks like if it creaks, the only answer is, "It's your
bike. Maybe."

--Blair
"Hope my Cinelli bars never
look like those."