Climbing tires?

Spider said:

I am a newbie to this sport about 2 monthes ago I bought a 2005 fuel
80 that came with Bontrager ACX tires. Some of the trails I ride I
can't make it over some of the hills , I realize some or most of my
problem maye be inexperiance, but I would like to get over some of
these tougher hills...... after attempting several times I can get
close to the top but either spin out or cant push it on overdepending
on which gear I try .... my question is would it help if I went a
differant tire? Is there a better tire for this type of riding? Is
there anything else I could try to achvieve my goal? I feel like if I
din't spin out on some of these hills I could make it over. Thanks
Spider

Part of it is due to a jerky pedaling cadence. Your 3 and 9 o clock
positions give you the greatest torque, and consequently you spin out. Try
clipless pedals and giving even power throughout the full 360 degrees.
Knobbier tires might help a little, but smoothing out your power stroke will
help so much more.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Phil said:

Spider said:

I am a newbie to this sport about 2 monthes ago I bought a 2005 fuel
80 that came with Bontrager ACX tires. Some of the trails I ride I
can't make it over some of the hills , I realize some or most of my
problem maye be inexperiance, but I would like to get over some of
these tougher hills...... after attempting several times I can get
close to the top but either spin out or cant push it on overdepending
on which gear I try .... my question is would it help if I went a
differant tire? Is there a better tire for this type of riding? Is
there anything else I could try to achvieve my goal? I feel like if I
din't spin out on some of these hills I could make it over. Thanks
Spider

Part of it is due to a jerky pedaling cadence. Your 3 and 9 o clock
positions give you the greatest torque, and consequently you spin
out. Try clipless pedals and giving even power throughout the full
360 degrees. Knobbier tires might help a little, but smoothing out
your power stroke will help so much more.

I've some tips on climbing techinique here:
http://www.specialtyoutdoors.com/penny/biking/ridetips.asp

Ok, thanks I'll work on that, I went to clipless pedals not long after I
started riding and seem to be getting along with then good.... They made a
big differance in my rides.... but I'll work on smoothing out my
powerstroke.... Thanks Spider
"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Spider said:

I am a newbie to this sport about 2 monthes ago I bought a 2005 fuel
80 that came with Bontrager ACX tires. Some of the trails I ride I
can't make it over some of the hills , I realize some or most of my
problem maye be inexperiance, but I would like to get over some of
these tougher hills...... after attempting several times I can get
close to the top but either spin out or cant push it on overdepending
on which gear I try .... my question is would it help if I went a
differant tire? Is there a better tire for this type of riding? Is
there anything else I could try to achvieve my goal? I feel like if I
din't spin out on some of these hills I could make it over. Thanks
Spider

Part of it is due to a jerky pedaling cadence. Your 3 and 9 o clock
positions give you the greatest torque, and consequently you spin out.
Try clipless pedals and giving even power throughout the full 360 degrees.
Knobbier tires might help a little, but smoothing out your power stroke
will help so much more.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Spider wrote (top-post moved):

Quoted message said:

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Spider said:

I am a newbie to this sport about 2 monthes ago I bought a 2005 fuel
80 that came with Bontrager ACX tires. Some of the trails I ride I
can't make it over some of the hills , I realize some or most of my
problem maye be inexperiance, but I would like to get over some of
these tougher hills...... after attempting several times I can get
close to the top but either spin out or cant push it on
overdepending on which gear I try .... my question is would it help
if I went a differant tire? Is there a better tire for this type of
riding? Is there anything else I could try to achvieve my goal? I
feel like if I din't spin out on some of these hills I could make
it over. Thanks Spider

Part of it is due to a jerky pedaling cadence. Your 3 and 9 o clock
positions give you the greatest torque, and consequently you spin
out. Try clipless pedals and giving even power throughout the full
360 degrees. Knobbier tires might help a little, but smoothing out
your power stroke will help so much more.

Quoted message said:

Ok, thanks I'll work on that, I went to clipless pedals not long
after I started riding and seem to be getting along with then
good.... They made a big differance in my rides.... but I'll work on
smoothing out my powerstroke.... Thanks Spider

It's also a weight distribution thing. It's easy to lean so far forward
that the rear tire loses traction -- almost as easy as it is to have TOO
much weight to rear and have front wheel pop up! In other words, balance.

Bill "practice, grasshopper" S.

On 2004-10-21, Spider penned:

Quoted message said:

I am a newbie to this sport about 2 monthes ago I bought a 2005 fuel 80 that
came with Bontrager ACX tires. Some of the trails I ride I can't make it
over some of the hills , I realize some or most of my problem maye be
inexperiance, but I would like to get over some of these tougher hills......
after attempting several times I can get close to the top but either spin
out or cant push it on overdepending on which gear I try .... my question is
would it help if I went a differant tire? Is there a better tire for this
type of riding? Is there anything else I could try to achvieve my goal? I
feel like if I din't spin out on some of these hills I could make it over.
Thanks Spider

Tires *can* make a difference, but most likely you can solve your problem more
cheaply by working on your fore/aft balance. It's pretty common to have your
weight too far back on uphills, in which case your front tire loses traction.
You don't mention which tire is spinning out, so I don't know if that's your
problem or not. I've watched a tough spot in a race where many racers spun
out their rear wheel in a depression of loose turf that happened to be right
in the middle of the most obvious line. If your problem is spinning out
because of this sort of obstacle, picking a different line might help.

I started riding a little over a year ago, and there are many places where I
used to spin out, but now can ride comfortably. I think a lot of that is body
positioning.

Also, you ask if there's a better tire for "this type of riding," but it's not
at all clear to me from your post what type of riding you're describing, other
than that it involves riding up hills. I am guessing from your newbie status
that the trails are not very techical and that you should do fine with
whatever tires you have.

I can't give you any tire advice, but in order for anyone to give you advice,
they would probably need to know:

* soil type (sand, packed dirt, rocky, rooty?)
* typical weather => trail conditions
* some idea of how steep the trails are (X feet of verticle in Y miles)

In conclusion, a quote from Eddy Merckx:

"Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades."

(But buying new shinies for your bike is great fun, I'll admit.)

--
monique

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live."
-- Mark Twain

"Spider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am a newbie to this sport about 2 monthes ago I bought a 2005 fuel 80

that

Quoted message said:

came with Bontrager ACX tires. Some of the trails I ride I can't make it
over some of the hills , I realize some or most of my problem maye be
inexperiance, but I would like to get over some of these tougher

hills......

Quoted message said:

after attempting several times I can get close to the top but either spin
out or cant push it on overdepending on which gear I try .... my question

is

Quoted message said:

would it help if I went a differant tire? Is there a better tire for this
type of riding? Is there anything else I could try to achvieve my goal? I
feel like if I din't spin out on some of these hills I could make it over.
Thanks Spider

As everyone else suggested concentrate on fore-aft weight balance and
putting power to the rear wheel smoothly. In addition to that try letting
out a little air pressure from your current tyres to give a bit bigger
contact patch. I've seen lots of folks charge a steep hill and wind up
spinning wildly in too low of a gear. Slow and steady wins the race.

Mike

Spider said:

I am a newbie to this sport about 2 monthes ago I bought a 2005 fuel
80 that came with Bontrager ACX tires. Some of the trails I ride I
can't make it over some of the hills , I realize some or most of my
problem maye be inexperiance, but I would like to get over some of
these tougher hills...... after attempting several times I can get
close to the top but either spin out or cant push it on overdepending
on which gear I try .... my question is would it help if I went a
differant tire? Is there a better tire for this type of riding? Is
there anything else I could try to achvieve my goal? I feel like if I
din't spin out on some of these hills I could make it over. Thanks

I've occasionally dropped rear tyre pressure to make climbing easier, and
it's helped. Mostly when I've stopped the bike on a section that's steep,
and it's very difficult to get the balance between popping a wheely and
spinning the back wheel.

Quoted message said:

and it's very difficult to get the balance between popping a wheely and
spinning the back wheel.

I find that full racing tuck, as if you're a roadie trying to get a severe
aerodynamic advantage, works wonders for finding this balance. It may be
because it doesn't allow full torque to the pedals, but whatever it is, it
gets me over any rideable hill without dabs. Try it sometime... I'm
wondering if it's just me and my placebo effect, or if it actually works.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Spider said:

I am a newbie to this sport about 2 monthes ago I bought a 2005 fuel
80 that came with Bontrager ACX tires. Some of the trails I ride I
can't make it over some of the hills , I realize some or most of my
problem maye be inexperiance, but I would like to get over some of
these tougher hills...... after attempting several times I can get
close to the top but either spin out or cant push it on overdepending
on which gear I try .... my question is would it help if I went a
differant tire? Is there a better tire for this type of riding? Is
there anything else I could try to achvieve my goal? I feel like if I
din't spin out on some of these hills I could make it over. Thanks
Spider

Try "rowing" the handlebars on each forward pedal motions to help
keep the back tire on the ground. Move your weight forward to keep
the front tire from popping up. ...before you buy new tires anyway.

--
- Zilla
Cary, NC
(Remove XSPAM)

Zilla said:

Spider said:

I am a newbie to this sport about 2 monthes ago I bought a 2005 fuel
80 that came with Bontrager ACX tires. Some of the trails I ride I
can't make it over some of the hills , I realize some or most of my
problem maye be inexperiance, but I would like to get over some of
these tougher hills...... after attempting several times I can get
close to the top but either spin out or cant push it on overdepending
on which gear I try .... my question is would it help if I went a
differant tire? Is there a better tire for this type of riding? Is
there anything else I could try to achvieve my goal? I feel like if I
din't spin out on some of these hills I could make it over. Thanks
Spider

Try "rowing" the handlebars on each forward pedal motions to help
keep the back tire on the ground. Move your weight forward to keep
the front tire from popping up. ...before you buy new tires anyway.

I use this technique on the road bike and MTB on pavement to maintain enough
forward momentum to retain gyroscopic-ness when pushing a 39/14 (road) and
32/12 (MTB) at a trackstand right after the light changes. I'm guessing
that it allows one to push forward with his/her quads while pulling back on
the bars as opposed to using one's body weight and pulling up on the bars to
pedal. It's very convenient because I use downtube shifters on the road
bike.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Alright thanks for the advice guys, Sounds like I have some work to do.....
To answer a few of the questions from above...... 1) most hills I am having
trouble with are about 20' or so change in elevation and the incline is
about a 40 to 50 degree angle for about 25' with mostly loose rocks.. 2)
I am spinninig out on the back tire. 3) As far as body position , I had
been trying this standing up, leaning forward. Thanks again for all the
help and advice..... Spider
"Zilla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Spider said:

I am a newbie to this sport about 2 monthes ago I bought a 2005 fuel
80 that came with Bontrager ACX tires. Some of the trails I ride I
can't make it over some of the hills , I realize some or most of my
problem maye be inexperiance, but I would like to get over some of
these tougher hills...... after attempting several times I can get
close to the top but either spin out or cant push it on overdepending
on which gear I try .... my question is would it help if I went a
differant tire? Is there a better tire for this type of riding? Is
there anything else I could try to achvieve my goal? I feel like if I
din't spin out on some of these hills I could make it over. Thanks
Spider

Try "rowing" the handlebars on each forward pedal motions to help
keep the back tire on the ground. Move your weight forward to keep
the front tire from popping up. ...before you buy new tires anyway.

--
- Zilla
Cary, NC
(Remove XSPAM)

Spider said:

Alright thanks for the advice guys, Sounds like I have some work to
do..... To answer a few of the questions from above...... 1) most
hills I am having trouble with are about 20' or so change in
elevation and the incline is about a 40 to 50 degree angle for about
25' with mostly loose rocks.. 2) I am spinninig out on the back
tire. 3) As far as body position , I had been trying this standing
up, leaning forward. Thanks again for all the help and advice.....

not stand up and lean forward, get down and get forward. It's called a
Crouch Climb.... if you were a girl (??) I'd say [censored] to the tube as in top
tube, and you should feel the nose of the saddle goosing you in the butt.

penny s

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and it's very difficult to get the balance between popping a wheely and
spinning the back wheel.

I find that full racing tuck, as if you're a roadie trying to get a severe
aerodynamic advantage, works wonders for finding this balance. It may be
because it doesn't allow full torque to the pedals, but whatever it is, it
gets me over any rideable hill without dabs. Try it sometime... I'm
wondering if it's just me and my placebo effect, or if it actually works.

And to bring up yet another "roadie advantage" - I've found that the
ability to spin smooth circles at higher cadences (like 120-150rpm)
approaching some really technical sections will allow you to get
through with the speed you need, and allow you to NOT shift in the
middle... this has allowed me to get over obstacles that stopped some
buddies who were actually much better technical riders than me - they
just didn't have the ability to make the combination of speed AND
gearing work.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Spider said:

Alright thanks for the advice guys, Sounds like I have some work to do.....
To answer a few of the questions from above...... 1) most hills I am having
trouble with are about 20' or so change in elevation and the incline is
about a 40 to 50 degree angle for about 25' with mostly loose rocks.. 2)
I am spinninig out on the back tire. 3) As far as body position , I had
been trying this standing up, leaning forward. Thanks again for all the
help and advice..... Spider

Well, if the incline is REALLY 40-50 degrees, the first thing you'll
need to do to clean the section is to suspend the laws of physics. If
a line drawn straight up from the rear tire's contact patch passes in
front of the center of the mass of bike and rider, nothing short of
divine intervention is going to keep the front wheel down. At
anything remotely approaching 45 degrees, there's no way you can get
enough weight forward of "the line" to keep the front wheel down.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and it's very difficult to get the balance between popping a wheely
and spinning the back wheel.

I find that full racing tuck, as if you're a roadie trying to get a
severe aerodynamic advantage, works wonders for finding this
balance. It may be because it doesn't allow full torque to the
pedals, but whatever it is, it gets me over any rideable hill
without dabs. Try it sometime... I'm wondering if it's just me and
my placebo effect, or if it actually works.

And to bring up yet another "roadie advantage" - I've found that the
ability to spin smooth circles at higher cadences (like 120-150rpm)
approaching some really technical sections will allow you to get
through with the speed you need, and allow you to NOT shift in the
middle... this has allowed me to get over obstacles that stopped some
buddies who were actually much better technical riders than me - they
just didn't have the ability to make the combination of speed AND
gearing work.

If I'm not too tired, I try to do this. I actually find that sitting and
simply helping the rear over roots and logs up a hill at 3-5mph gets me up
faster, as less experienced (but probably more powerful) riders cranked
away, spinning out the tire on the aforementioned wet logs and roots,
bringing them to a stop up the hill, and I pass them.

On the downhills in XC racing, I try to pedal the whole time, as the chain
tension lessens ghost shifting at the chainrings. I also figure distance =
rate * time, so my real advantage comes on the downhills, because I can put
more distance with more speed, instead of letting simply letting gravity do
its job. If I try to push it on the uphills, I blow up early and end up
gaining a tiny time advantage compared to the mad rush of the downhill.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Spider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am a newbie to this sport about 2 monthes ago I bought a 2005 fuel 80

that

Quoted message said:

came with Bontrager ACX tires. Some of the trails I ride I can't make it
over some of the hills , I realize some or most of my problem maye be
inexperiance, but I would like to get over some of these tougher

hills......

Quoted message said:

after attempting several times I can get close to the top but either spin
out or cant push it on overdepending on which gear I try .... my question

is

Quoted message said:

would it help if I went a differant tire? Is there a better tire for this
type of riding? Is there anything else I could try to achvieve my goal? I
feel like if I din't spin out on some of these hills I could make it over.
Thanks Spider

On top of all the balance (etc.) advice the others gave, I'd like to add
that Nokian Gazzaloddi tyres have the best climbing, descending, braking and
cornering traction of any tyre of comparable footprint size. No, honest -
it's the TRUTH! I run the 2.6's, you may wanna check the 2.3's out!

',;~}~

NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN
NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN
NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN
NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN
NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN
NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN
NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN NOKIAN

',;~}~

Shaun aRe - I'm not a fanatic, they're just the best tyres ever. Also, been
a while since I took a chance to plug 'em!

SR says:

Quoted message said:

On top of all the balance (etc.) advice the others gave, I'd like to add
that

<snip commercial>

Quoted message said:

No, honest -
it's the TRUTH! I run the 2.6's, you may wanna check the 2.3's out!

Hey, Shaun, do you have shares in Nokian, or do they just pay you for this
service? ;-P

Steve "How's things, anyway...?"

"Stephen Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

SR says:

Quoted message said:

On top of all the balance (etc.) advice the others gave, I'd like to add
that

<snip commercial>

Quoted message said:

No, honest -
it's the TRUTH! I run the 2.6's, you may wanna check the 2.3's out!

Hey, Shaun, do you have shares in Nokian, or do they just pay you for this
service? ;-P

Nah - they're just fcuking great tyres mate! Plus, I can't miss an
opportunity to send myself up, eh? ',;~}~

Quoted message said:

Steve "How's things, anyway...?"

Nosserbad, ta! You?

Shaun aRe

small change said:

not stand up and lean forward, get down and get forward. It's called a
Crouch Climb....

Picture: http://bbauer.gomen.org/images/crouching.jpg

One of the original racers called it "the pounce", I like to call it the
"crouching tiger" - sort of like the position of a cat preparing to
pounce. Butt on the seat, chin as close to the handlebar as you can
manage. Gives you a low center of gravity and an even weight distribution.

The hill I'm on in the picture doesn't look like much (they never do), but
its about 1000' gain and I'm crouching a lot. Very small hills can be done
standing, essentially taking advantage of your momentum, but beyond that
you need to crouch.

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)