Clinchers in IM

Id like to know if there's any advantage to clinchers, seems a pain in
the butt to tote something that large with you. Are they hard to put on?
any BIG advantage? for the users, why do you like them?
Eric

Pete said:

Hi all:

I just saw a picture of Faris Al-Sultan at this year's world
championships. From what he was carrying (pack under seat) and no
obvious sewup) it looks like he was racing on clinchers. I would love
to get rid of my tubulars, but I had always thought that they were
noticably faster than clinchers. Is that not the case anymore?

-Pete

Pete said:

I would love
to get rid of my tubulars, but I had always thought that they were
noticably faster than clinchers. Is that not the case anymore?

Tubular rims can be lighter. Clinchers have lower rolling resistance
than tubulars of equal quality. Tubulars probably are more resistance
to pinch flats.

JT

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"Eric" <[email hidden]> wrote...

Quoted message said:

Id like to know if there's any advantage to clinchers, seems a pain in
the butt to tote something that large with you. Are they hard to put on?
any BIG advantage? for the users, why do you like them?
Eric

Clinchers' main advantages over tubulars are reliability and lower
maintenance. They have benefitted from a lot of development work over the
last decade, to the point where top-of-the-line clinchers are *almost* the
equal of tubulars in terms of weight and performance.

Miguel Indurain is said to have used a clincher on his front wheel, because
the heat generated by his braking on downhills would melt the glue on
tubulars. Just saying...

Quoted message said:

seems a pain in the
butt to tote something that large with you.
Eric

Why would you carry one with you?

--
Mark
_______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

seems a pain in the butt to tote something that large with you.

Why would you carry one with you?

Sorry, that was Peter's line, not Eric's!

--
Mark
_______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

a spare during a race? (I meant a tire, not the wheel)

Mark (MSA) said:

Quoted message said:

seems a pain in the butt to tote something that large with you.
Eric

Why would you carry one with you?

Quoted message said:

a spare during a race? (I meant a tire, not the wheel)

Mark (MSA) said:

Quoted message said:

seems a pain in the butt to tote something that large with you.
Eric

Why would you carry one with you?

I would say that's pretty much uneccessary. I've been
racing(Tri/Road/TT's)/touring/commuting for the past 6 years, I cover
approx 12'000 miles per year...never needed a spare tyre.

Individuals choice of course, but I don't actually know anyone that
carrys a spare clincher during a race.

--
Mark
_______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

must be the area, I see them frequently folded up amongst the water
bottles behind the seat along with a couple CO2 cartridges.
I use tubes, but I flatted out twice during races, and seen at lest one
person almost every race in my 10 years at this. My cycling coach
insisted we have spars for every training ride. I'd never risk it, why
chance having a flat forty miles from home?
Eric

Mark (MSA) said:

Quoted message said:

a spare during a race? (I meant a tire, not the wheel)

Mark (MSA) said:

> seems a pain in the butt to tote something that large with you.
> Eric

Why would you carry one with you?

I would say that's pretty much uneccessary. I've been
racing(Tri/Road/TT's)/touring/commuting for the past 6 years, I cover
approx 12'000 miles per year...never needed a spare tyre.

Individuals choice of course, but I don't actually know anyone that
carrys a spare clincher during a race.

Eric said:

I'd never risk it, why
chance having a flat forty miles from home?

Preparation for problems has to consider the likeliness of the problem
occuring. For example, I've twice broken seatposts when riding.
Would saying "I carry a spare seatpost when riding -- why chance
having no seat 40 miles from home?" sound reasonable to you? Does
your coach carry a spare seatpost? It could happen. Why risk it.

We can imagine other things that could possibly go wrong. Can you
prepare for all of them?

Moreover, rather than carrying a tire, you could carry a piece of
cloth -- such as cut from the sidewall of a tire, or an old race
number, or even a dollar bill. Any of these could be used to "boot" a
severe cut to the sidewall of a tire and work well enough to get you
home.

JT

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Quoted message said:

must be the area, I see them frequently folded up amongst the water bottles
behind the seat along with a couple CO2 cartridges.
I use tubes, but I flatted out twice during races, and seen at lest one
person almost every race in my 10 years at this. My cycling coach insisted we
have spars for every training ride. I'd never risk it, why chance having a
flat forty miles from home?
Eric

If you have a flat, you change a tube not a tyre (clinchers I'm talking
here)? Are you sure approx one person in every race in the last 10
years has ripped a tyre beyond what a tube would repair?

I'm not replying for arguments sake here, I just can't believe riders
in your area experience so many punctures due to tyre failure rather
than a punctured tube!

But fair enough, if yoru coach insists you must carry a spare tyre as
well as tubes, then you have no real choice.

Cheers,

--
Mark
_______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

I had a clincher tire fail (essentially de-laminate) on me after I skidded
to a stop when some nitwit pulled accross the bicycle trail in her car and
stopped completely blocking the trail. The area of tread loss was too long
to shim with the power bar wrapper I would usually use. Lots of folks
stopped to offer tubes, but it wouldn't have done any good. After walking
the 8 miles to the bike store, I resolved not to let it happen again. I now
carry an extra tire folded in one of my behind the seat bottle cages for
training rides. I also routinely carry the tire on any half-iron or iron
distance races. I am a MOP-BOPer, so the extra weight is not really a
concern. My concern would be having to wait for assistance for hours and
missing a cut-off.
Just my 2 cents

"Mark (MSA)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

must be the area, I see them frequently folded up amongst the water
bottles behind the seat along with a couple CO2 cartridges.
I use tubes, but I flatted out twice during races, and seen at lest one
person almost every race in my 10 years at this. My cycling coach
insisted we have spars for every training ride. I'd never risk it, why
chance having a flat forty miles from home?
Eric

If you have a flat, you change a tube not a tyre (clinchers I'm talking
here)? Are you sure approx one person in every race in the last 10 years
has ripped a tyre beyond what a tube would repair?

I'm not replying for arguments sake here, I just can't believe riders in
your area experience so many punctures due to tyre failure rather than a
punctured tube!

But fair enough, if yoru coach insists you must carry a spare tyre as well
as tubes, then you have no real choice.

Cheers,

--
Mark
_______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:43:18 GMT, "DrJoe" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I had a clincher tire fail (essentially de-laminate) on me after I skidded
to a stop when some nitwit pulled accross the bicycle trail in her car and
stopped completely blocking the trail. The area of tread loss was too long
to shim with the power bar wrapper I would usually use. Lots of folks
stopped to offer tubes, but it wouldn't have done any good. After walking
the 8 miles to the bike store, I resolved not to let it happen again. I now
carry an extra tire folded in one of my behind the seat bottle cages for
training rides. I also routinely carry the tire on any half-iron or iron
distance races. I am a MOP-BOPer, so the extra weight is not really a
concern. My concern would be having to wait for assistance for hours and
missing a cut-off.

What if your seatpost breaks? How will you get home or finish the
race? What if you break several spokes -- are you prepared for that? I
assume you carry a chain tool and spare link for the chain.

JT

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For crying out loud, John...do you have to be such an antagonist?
Look at the pro triathletes and you'll see them now and then with spare
tires.
Maybe we should statistically compare seatpost failures vs. tire failures...

Sheesh!

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:43:18 GMT, "DrJoe" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I had a clincher tire fail (essentially de-laminate) on me after I

skidded

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to a stop when some nitwit pulled accross the bicycle trail in her car

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

stopped completely blocking the trail. The area of tread loss was too

long

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to shim with the power bar wrapper I would usually use. Lots of folks
stopped to offer tubes, but it wouldn't have done any good. After

walking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the 8 miles to the bike store, I resolved not to let it happen again. I

now

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

carry an extra tire folded in one of my behind the seat bottle cages for
training rides. I also routinely carry the tire on any half-iron or iron
distance races. I am a MOP-BOPer, so the extra weight is not really a
concern. My concern would be having to wait for assistance for hours and
missing a cut-off.

What if your seatpost breaks? How will you get home or finish the
race? What if you break several spokes -- are you prepared for that? I
assume you carry a chain tool and spare link for the chain.

JT

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Tr-I said:

For crying out loud, John...do you have to be such an antagonist?

I appreciate when people question my assumptions or conclusions and
force me to think things through more clearly.. I'm sorry if I forget
that some people do not take that as helpful.

Quoted message said:

Look at the pro triathletes and you'll see
them now and then with spare
tires.

Clinchers or tubulars?

Quoted message said:

Maybe we should statistically compare
seatpost failures vs. tire failures...

Both are very very rare. I've had the latter never happen and the
former happen to me twice, but its' clearly so rare that I don't
prepare for it specially. That's the point I'm trying to make -- that
just because something very rare happens to a person they shouldn't
take it as something to prepare for but rather look at what problems
are likely to occur and prepare for those instead.

JT

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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tr-I said:

For crying out loud, John...do you have to be such an antagonist?

I appreciate when people question my assumptions or conclusions and
force me to think things through more clearly.. I'm sorry if I forget
that some people do not take that as helpful.

Quoted message said:

Look at the pro triathletes and you'll see
them now and then with spare
tires.

Clinchers or tubulars?

Quoted message said:

Maybe we should statistically compare
seatpost failures vs. tire failures...

Both are very very rare. I've had the latter never happen and the
former happen to me twice, but its' clearly so rare that I don't
prepare for it specially. That's the point I'm trying to make -- that
just because something very rare happens to a person they shouldn't
take it as something to prepare for but rather look at what problems
are likely to occur and prepare for those instead.

JT

Yes John, you're right. Preparing for something that is "likely to occur"
is exactly the point. Maybe you live in the area that had the world's most
perfect roads, but the rest of us don't. The reality for most people in
most areas is that flat tires are NOT all that rare. Go ahead, compare seat
post failures to tire failures throughout the world of triathlon - I'd love
to see the results.

For me, flat tires seem to happen about about once every 1,000 miles or so.
That means if I'm doing an IM distance race, I've got about a 10% chance of
experiencing one. Since having this happen anywhere other than in the last
few miles of the bike leg would esssentially end the day (and 9 months of
training) I'm going to err on the side of caution and carry an extra
clincher and a tube during such an event. I just fold them up and stuff
them under the seat. It isn't that big of a deal and since I'm not
competing for a podium finish, I don't think weight is an issue.

Based on what I saw in my IM last year, more than 50% of participants agree
with this logic.

Do I carry them on short rides where I'm only 10 miles from home? No. Do I
carry them on long rides? Yes. Do I carry them during Half IM and IM races
where months of training is on the line? You bet. Heck, X-Lab even makes a
product specificaly designed to carry an extra tire. Logic would have it
that there must be some number of people out there who agree that carrying
spares is a good idea if there is a market for such a product.

If you've never experienced a flat 50 miles from home. Congratulations.
Once you have (and you will) I bet you'll find a little more logic to the
notion of carrying one.

John

when I said flat, I have no idea of it was a tube or a tire... I just
see someone on the side of the road fixing something wheel-related.
I did not want this to turn into some argument on semantics or race
preparedness... I carry a tube, dollar bill, some patches & glue, and a
couple inflate cartridges. I've seen number of riders with what I
assumed were clincher tires folded up between their water bottles.
If I have tubes, hell no I ain't carrying tires too...

Mark (MSA) said:

Quoted message said:

must be the area, I see them frequently folded up amongst the water
bottles behind the seat along with a couple CO2 cartridges.
I use tubes, but I flatted out twice during races, and seen at lest
one person almost every race in my 10 years at this. My cycling coach
insisted we have spars for every training ride. I'd never risk it, why
chance having a flat forty miles from home?
Eric

If you have a flat, you change a tube not a tyre (clinchers I'm talking
here)? Are you sure approx one person in every race in the last 10
years has ripped a tyre beyond what a tube would repair?

I'm not replying for arguments sake here, I just can't believe riders in
your area experience so many punctures due to tyre failure rather than a
punctured tube!

But fair enough, if yoru coach insists you must carry a spare tyre as
well as tubes, then you have no real choice.

Cheers,

John Hardt said:

For me, flat tires seem to happen about about once every 1,000 miles or
so. That means if I'm doing an IM distance race, I've got about a 10%
chance of experiencing one. Since having this happen anywhere other than
in the last few miles of the bike leg would esssentially end the day (and
9 months of training) I'm going to err on the side of caution and carry an
extra clincher and a tube during such an event.

You have an actual TIRE FAILURE every thousand miles???? You better switch
to a better brand of tire.

Quoted message said:

Based on what I saw in my IM last year, more than 50% of participants
agree with this logic.

You most likely saw folded up tubulars, not folded up clinchers.

Quoted message said:

You most likely saw folded up tubulars, not folded up clinchers.

don't tubulars have that piece of metal running through that prevents
folding?

P.S. I don't know much about the mechanics of the bike, I just get on
and ride. I have never used clinchers. Last time I ordered wheels my
bike shop asked me about clinchers, I declined because I didn't know
anything about them... not a very adventurous soul in me... damn I need
to take some risks and try new things, maybe I'll switch brands of
orange juice :-)
Eric

Eric said:

Quoted message said:

You most likely saw folded up tubulars, not folded up clinchers.

don't tubulars have that piece of metal running through that prevents
folding?

P.S. I don't know much about the mechanics of the bike, I just get on
and ride. I have never used clinchers. Last time I ordered wheels my
bike shop asked me about clinchers, I declined because I didn't know
anything about them... not a very adventurous soul in me... damn I need
to take some risks and try new things, maybe I'll switch brands of
orange juice :-)
Eric

Actually,

Tubulars don't have any kind of metal strips. some clinchers have a
wire bead that would prevent them form folding. Most clinchers now have
a Kevlar bead that can be folded.

I used to use clinchers on my training wheels and tubulars on my race
wheels. At the time, the tubular tires could be inflated to higher
pressures and thus, they had lower rolling resistance. I didn't use to
carry a spare tubular in races, but that changed after I flatted halfway
through a 30 mile race. then I started carrying a spare tubular with me
in races (although I never had to use it).

I am not maintenance-minded and I never liked messing with the glue on
my tubulars. In the past few years, clincher tires have gotten a lot
better. So, I finally ditched my tubulars and now ride high pressure
clinchers. I don't carry a spare tire in races or on training rides. I
do carry a spare tube, a patch kit and two CO2 cartridges. I've never
flatted so badly with clinchers that I needed a spare tire.

And that's my two-cents worth.

Bob