Clippless Pedals and Crashing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Max" == Max <[email hidden]> writes:

Max> Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am
Max> concerned that if I am going to take a fall, that clippless
Max> pedals will make it more dangerous, am I correct ?

I've heard it argued that clipless pedals makes crashing more safe. The
logic is that as your legs don't go out at angles you'll slide down your
skin rather than breaking bones.

I don't have any authoritative references, I don't even know if it's
true. I think I saw it on this newsgroup somewhen.
--
Cheers
Euan

"Max" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am concerned that if

I

Quoted message said:

am going to take a fall, that clippless pedals will make it more

dangerous,

Quoted message said:

am I correct ?

Max,

I took the 40kmph spill in a race 2 weeks back, I can guarantee you that the
last thing you will be thinking of is how to unclip.

More dangerous? I don't reckon. Pulverising you helmet on the road is
dangerous, getting your feet out, to somehow prevent or lessen the impact
would somehow be amazing.

Kevin

fred_nieman said:

Short answer: 99% sure that clipless pedals are just as safe as clips
and straps. 1% sure that they are maybe safer.

agree, the one speed stack I've had I came out of the clipless as if they weren't there, no release on my part.
Think about it, track riders use straps because their forces will rip their cleats from the pedal.
High energy crashes put similar stresses on the pedal/cleat so you release when you need to.
(Possibly not true if you let your cleats get far to worn?)

quote='fred_nieman'Max said:

Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am concerned that if I
am going to take a fall, that clippless pedals will make it more dangerous,
am I correct ?

You'd think so, but it doesn't happen that way.

I rode many years with toe-clips, and in minor (= no bones broken)
crashes I mostly stayed attached. My major (ie: time in hospital)
crashes flipped me out of the clips. Good or bad? Debateable. I guess
I probably would have had the same level of injuries whether I'd been
attached to the bike or not.

Thank the (divinity of your choice) that I've never had a big spill when
I've been using clippless pedals. But in all the spills I've had, I've
just popped out of 'em when I kissed tarmac/gravel/dirt. This is using
both twist to the outside only and twist either inside or outside
clipless pedals. Looks like they're engineered to release you when
trouble comes along.

The exception to this is low-speed spills - when you're rolling to a
stop, or starting from a stop and you need to stop again. I've had a
few of these - and I couldn't get out of my clippless pedals in time to
put a foot down. The results were slight bruises and/or abrasions to my
left (individually and/or inclusively) palm, shoulder, elbow, knee, and
ankle. Exactlty the same thing happened when I used clips and straps.

Short answer: 99% sure that clipless pedals are just as safe as clips
and straps. 1% sure that they are maybe safer.[/QUOTE]
another possible (or just wildly theoretical) theory might be that clipless pedals (you know, the ones we all clip in and out of 😉 ) stop you flying off the bike at higher speeds and therefore ower injuries. All us 'clippers' have done the slow speed slow fall-over-sideways-manouvre-at-the-lights but the only thing that will hurt is some skin perhaps and lots of your ride :-)

I nearly collected a cardoor a few weeks ago. it was in my first week of having my new eggbeaters and (i think) i disengaged as if they werent on! I seemed to sail over the bars and onto the bonnet of said car rahter quickly and i dont remember them catching at all.

If they still concern you dial em down to the lowest/lossest setting till your confidence is up

flyingdutch said:

All us 'clippers' have done the slow speed slow
fall-over-sideways-manouvre-at-the-lights but the only thing that
will hurt is some skin perhaps and lots of your ride :-)

I don't know Dutch. My fall earlier in the year was only around 15kph
and onto dirt and I still managed 2 fractured wrists and a fractured
elbow. I'm convinced that if I have a slow speed fall because of feet
stuck in clips, it'll be another broken bone for me.

DaveB

"Max" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am concerned that if
I
am going to take a fall, that clippless pedals will make it more
dangerous,
am I correct ?

I remember about 2 or 3 years ago, just after I'd bought clipless pedals and
shoes, exiting a pedestrian underpass and suddenly being confronted by a
mother pushing a pram. I was going quite slowly but braked hard to avoid
hitting the pram. Didn't remember that I was clipped to the pedals. Next
thing I was on the ground with the bike still firmly attached to my feet.
Only injury was to my pride!

Getting into and out of your clipless pedals is a learned experience. After
a while it becomes second nature but like anything new you have to think
about it and anticipate stopping and unclipping.

The advantages far outweigh the chance of a fall which will likely be at
slow speed anyway IMHO.

Peter S
[email hidden]

Max said:

Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am concerned that if I
am going to take a fall, that clippless pedals will make it more dangerous,
am I correct ?

You'd think so, but it doesn't happen that way.

I rode many years with toe-clips, and in minor (= no bones broken)
crashes I mostly stayed attached. My major (ie: time in hospital)
crashes flipped me out of the clips. Good or bad? Debateable. I guess
I probably would have had the same level of injuries whether I'd been
attached to the bike or not.

Thank the (divinity of your choice) that I've never had a big spill when
I've been using clippless pedals. But in all the spills I've had, I've
just popped out of 'em when I kissed tarmac/gravel/dirt. This is using
both twist to the outside only and twist either inside or outside
clipless pedals. Looks like they're engineered to release you when
trouble comes along.

The exception to this is low-speed spills - when you're rolling to a
stop, or starting from a stop and you need to stop again. I've had a
few of these - and I couldn't get out of my clippless pedals in time to
put a foot down. The results were slight bruises and/or abrasions to my
left (individually and/or inclusively) palm, shoulder, elbow, knee, and
ankle. Exactlty the same thing happened when I used clips and straps.

Short answer: 99% sure that clipless pedals are just as safe as clips
and straps. 1% sure that they are maybe safer.

"DaveB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

flyingdutch said:

All us 'clippers' have done the slow speed slow
fall-over-sideways-manouvre-at-the-lights but the only thing that
will hurt is some skin perhaps and lots of your ride :-)

I don't know Dutch. My fall earlier in the year was only around 15kph
and onto dirt and I still managed 2 fractured wrists and a fractured
elbow. I'm convinced that if I have a slow speed fall because of feet
stuck in clips, it'll be another broken bone for me.

Not wanting to sound like a [censored].. but.. did you
land awkwardly or something? Low density bones?
Just sounds like a lot of damage for 15kph! :-S

For wrists, I'd suggest not sticking hands out when
falling over. Just take the bike with you and land on
your shoulder/hip. If you're lucky you might just slide
along, if unlucky.. well.. shhh ;-)
Of course, you have to crash lots before you can do
anything to influence the aftermath. My skill lies in my
ability to unleash the most viscious barrage of swear
words in a split second you will ever hear :-)

When I've tipped over at low speed, I've _maybe_
taken a _little_ skin off and been more [censored] at
scratching my shifters or something..

hippy

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

"DaveB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

flyingdutch said:

All us 'clippers' have done the slow speed slow
fall-over-sideways-manouvre-at-the-lights but the only thing that
will hurt is some skin perhaps and lots of your ride :-)

I don't know Dutch. My fall earlier in the year was only around 15kph
and onto dirt and I still managed 2 fractured wrists and a fractured
elbow. I'm convinced that if I have a slow speed fall because of feet
stuck in clips, it'll be another broken bone for me.

Not wanting to sound like a [censored].. but.. did you
land awkwardly or something? Low density bones?
Just sounds like a lot of damage for 15kph! :-S

For wrists, I'd suggest not sticking hands out when
falling over. Just take the bike with you and land on
your shoulder/hip. If you're lucky you might just slide
along, if unlucky.. well.. shhh ;-)
Of course, you have to crash lots before you can do
anything to influence the aftermath. My skill lies in my
ability to unleash the most viscious barrage of swear
words in a split second you will ever hear :-)

When I've tipped over at low speed, I've _maybe_
taken a _little_ skin off and been more [censored] at
scratching my shifters or something..

hippy

I did my first stop and tip just the other day.

Thought I was going well on clipless for almost 2 years without a fall
but one momentary lapse in thinking and over you go. Strange feeling
knowing it's too late to pull the foot out and just going for the ride.

Laughed my head off the rest of the way to work for my foolish
behaviour, no point getting stroppy 🙂

Cheers Ray

DaveB said:

I don't know Dutch. My fall earlier in the year was only around 15kph
and onto dirt and I still managed 2 fractured wrists and a fractured
elbow. I'm convinced that if I have a slow speed fall because of feet
stuck in clips, it'll be another broken bone for me.

DaveB

2. Two. Count them ONE-TWO fractured wrists??????????

One i get. heck i did it myself years ago (tram tracks. Hippy's favourite stretch of Whitehorse Rd 🙄 )
But TWO!!! AND an elbow. sheeesh

What kind of dismount were you atttempting?
If you fall sideways, Im guessing you stuck out the fall side wrist.
did you go over the bars? At 15kph Im guessin not.
Did you forget to mention the minor detail about the 200m clifftop you were on at the time?

Gentlemen we aqre in the presence of gymnastic genius 🙄

F-'Im off to roll around driveway to try and achieve this amazing feat'-D 🙄

flyingdutch said:

DaveB said:

I don't know Dutch. My fall earlier in the year was only around 15kph
and onto dirt and I still managed 2 fractured wrists and a fractured
elbow. I'm convinced that if I have a slow speed fall because of feet
stuck in clips, it'll be another broken bone for me.

DaveB

2. Two. Count them ONE-TWO fractured wrists??????????

One i get. heck i did it myself years ago (tram tracks. Hippy's
favourite stretch of Whitehorse Rd 🙄 )
But TWO!!! AND an elbow. sheeesh

What kind of dismount were you atttempting?
If you fall sideways, Im guessing you stuck out the fall side wrist.
did you go over the bars? At 15kph Im guessin not.
Did you forget to mention the minor detail about the 200m clifftop you
were on at the time?

Gentlemen we aqre in the presence of gymnastic genius 🙄

F-'Im off to roll around driveway to try and achieve this amazing
feat'-D 🙄

Yes I'm still wondering how I managed it. The smashed thumb I could
understand, havign been achieved somersaulting over a horse who decided
not to jump (although I never realised a thumb could break in 8 places
at once). But all that damage from a slow speed bike accident seemed a
little excessive. I'm happy to give lessons on how not to fall but will
need a volunteer from the audience.

DaveB

You can get those platform/cleated pedals to try it out. That’s how I did it. Next thing I knew I never used the platforms.
Sure you get caught out, but no one gonna dis you for not getting outa your cleat in time. Gotta get your scars from somewhere.

Max said:

Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am concerned that if I
am going to take a fall, that clippless pedals will make it more dangerous,
am I correct ?

I made the switch last week. I had the same concerns previously but have found them remarkebly easy to use. A couple of times practising up and down my street and then it was off into the traffic with no problems. I find the key is just to stay calm and not panic if you need to unclip in a hurry, but if anything they are easier to get out of than tight straps

Quoted message said:

I did my first stop and tip just the other day.

Thought I was going well on clipless for almost 2 years without a fall
but one momentary lapse in thinking and over you go. Strange feeling
knowing it's too late to pull the foot out and just going for the ride.

Laughed my head off the rest of the way to work for my foolish
behaviour, no point getting stroppy 🙂

Cheers Ray

That nanosecond when you know you're going over but it's just to late to do
anything about it ;o) - it's one of those feelings that can only be
appreciated if you've been there yourself.

At least you could laugh at it Ray!

Peter S
skypete(remove_this_bit)@iinet.net.au

"Max" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am concerned that if

I

Quoted message said:

am going to take a fall, that clippless pedals will make it more

dangerous,

Quoted message said:

am I correct ?

I'm never going back to toe clips. For me, clipless work better, hold me
tighter, and I come out of them more easily - especially in falls. My feet
just become detached automatically in a fall. SPuD stacks (and I've had a
few over the years) are more likely if the cleats (and pedal counterparts)
are worn or dirty. This tends to happen with mtbs... ;^)

I had to have my toeclips so tight that circulation became a problem, or my
feet kept coming off the pedals over jumps and rough stuff, yet I still came
out of them unexpectedly, and still got stuck when I didn't want to!

I have heard of people that tried, hated clipless and went back, but they're
far and away in the minority of people I've known.

Tony F
http://www.thefathippy.com
Blue Mtns mtb ride reviews, homemade bike lights

fred_nieman said:

DaveB wrote:
Speed, crashes, and injury levels: seems to me it's just a matter of
how lucky you are with respect to physics.

snip

Physics and luck, possums.

Maybe we should just catch the tram...

[censored]

ppp

Yup - a friend who rode silly fast motorbikes stopped riding after three crashes trashed thee new set of leather - He also wore body armour under, for extra slide capacity. In his opinion the worst part was hitting the hard bits when the slide stopped. Nice example of nice and not so nice physics..
slide or the thump after..

Think sliding as you go down and choose a suitable god/deity whilst still in the air 🙂

Three seperate light topples whilst clipped in in 10years has made me fully aware of the embarrassment of the issues - not to mention that its far worse while recumbent: Scrabbling round on you side trying to unclip that bottom foot under the bike, in a sloppy gutter !! :[ Such is life!

Tom

Max said:

Hey group, I want to upgrade to clippless pedals, but am concerned that if I
am going to take a fall, that clippless pedals will make it more dangerous,
am I correct ?

the only times I've fallen (once with toe clips, once with clipless) is when I forgot to clip in my brain (I was daydreaming)! That seems to be the main danger for me, not the type of pedal attachment:-)

DaveB said:

flyingdutch said:

All us 'clippers' have done the slow speed slow
fall-over-sideways-manouvre-at-the-lights but the only thing that
will hurt is some skin perhaps and lots of your ride :-)

I don't know Dutch. My fall earlier in the year was only around 15kph
and onto dirt and I still managed 2 fractured wrists and a fractured
elbow. I'm convinced that if I have a slow speed fall because of feet
stuck in clips, it'll be another broken bone for me.

DaveB

Speed, crashes, and injury levels: seems to me it's just a matter of
how lucky you are with respect to physics.

I crashed this one time ("This one time, at band camp" ;-) ), clipped by
a taxi (the taxi driver was great about it, despite his "sorry, mate, I
didn't see you" - heard that before?) going 45 km/h downhill through a
roundabout in Richmond, Victoria, in 1996. I was soooooooooo lucky. I
was using clips and straps at the time, but the taxi bump pushed me 100%
supine (ie: onto my back) and my back-pack took all the force and
consequent abrasion of the Hello, Road Surface! experience. Because of
the physics of the crash, I didn't get flipped out of the clips and
straps, and also because it landed me flat on my back, I didn't get a
single palm/elbow/shoulder/thigh/knee/ankle abrasion. My (left+right
cheeky monkeys) bum ("gluteus maximus", I think its called - spelling?)
had big bruises from the initial Hello Road impact, but only very slight
scratches. Lucky Physics.

Another time, touring in Tasmania 1999, I got onto my bike and into my
clipless pedals, then wobbled off the road into gravel at 5 km/h and
fell over. Scrapes on my left ankle, left knee, left elbow, and left
knuckles, and right elbow, right indside forearm and some right fingers
trying to stop myself falling over.

On SBS a few days ago, just before Lee Lin Chin came on to do the news
in a distressed damask shocking pink batik bolero jacket with a
matching/clashing skivvy/body suit and tiara/bandana/hijab combo (by a
cutting edge of the cutting edge young Australian designer, of course),
I saw some motorcycle Grand Prix (or whatever) dude come off his bike at
300 km/h. He parted company with it.
His bike did Rumanian gymnastics
a) from hell;
b) on steroids;
c) in a super high-octane 12 000 rmp death-dance;
d) all of the above;
into the GP track wall, but he slid on his back (kevlar and carbon
fibre, prolly) along the track for a while, then levered himself up to
stand up at maybe 200 km/h, sparks spitting out from the stainess steel
soles of his Moto GP boots, until he came to a standstill. Hmmm. Maybe
he went to the wet bar, and bought a few Mountain Goats. (I Goat, and I
vote ;-) )

Physics and luck, possums.

Maybe we should just catch the tram...

[censored]

ppp

Why does Mozilla/Ozemail always send this to the wrong post? Grrrrrrrrrr!