Coker Lean/Twist: a partial solution

podzol said:

Out on a ride on a dirt road today and doing some thinking about my
listing this way and that. Some times it is to the right, sometimes
left, sometimes towards the crown, other times away from the crown.
Seemed to have no ryme nor reason but was very real and annoying!!

After some thought, I figured out exactly what it was for me!
The placement of my feet on the pedals, how far away they are from the
hub, not front and back. For example, if my left foot was towards the
hub and right away, I would list to the right, even up the crown. If
they were opposite, I would go the other way. Centered from side to
side, the twist/lean was minimal. I think this is due to the increase
in lateral torque exherted on the wheel with increasing distance from
the hub. T=fx, right? so in a few centimeters can make a large
difference here.

Please give it a try and see if it happens for you, too!!

yes, i beleive that is the way it works
i noticed that a while back, but didn't say anything

T=Fx is correct 😄

thank you for posting that, it will be much help to beginners when they
can't figure why they sidetrack

i have one problem w/ you theory though. How is it possible then to
ride one footed in a straight line without twisting?

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skrobo said:

yes, i beleive that is the way it works
i noticed that a while back, but didn't say anything

T=Fx is correct 😄

thank you for posting that, it will be much help to beginners when they
can't figure why they sidetrack

i have one problem w/ you theory though. How is it possible then to
ride one footed in a straight line without twisting?

you balance your other foot so that it is still equal. You also lean.

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mornish said:

you balance your other foot so that it is still equal. You also lean.

oh DUHH
shoulda realised that, I don't lean ?

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Your other foot balances it out. You do twist a bit, but you correct it
with your other foot.

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leo said:

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Danni said:

Your other foot balances it out. You do twist a bit, but you correct it
with your other foot.

I think he means that you twist to a certain point where gravity is
still holding you and your unicycle and balance it out. Is that right
Danni??

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Not sure if I understand the problem described above, but when I have
trouble it's usually related to road crown. My feet are pretty well
behaved as to where they are on the pedals. But a road with lots of
crown can be murder, especially when it's narrow and you have to ride
on the edge with cars going by. This was my big problem on my partial
ride around Lake Tahoe last summer. Downhill curves to the right were
the worst. Curves to the left were better than going straight!

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Podzol, I'll have to try that. But if you are right, then not only have
you solved your problem of previously unexplained listing, but you have
provided everyone with a quite easy way to solve the problem of road
crown. For with a little relocation of feet on pedals, one can
compensate any adverse turning tendency. Too good to be true, really.

Klaas Bil

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I have noticed too that having the body twisted a way or another came
from my ill placed free-mount. But I think the combination is more
complex than just positionning feet sideways: it is also a difference
between positions of the feet (more towards the heel or not) plus the
position on the saddle (I prefer being seated at the top of the saddle
-I mean to the rear-).
sometimes I can't explain (it is _not__due to the crown of the road) I
just start twisting my body more and more ... I try to counteract by
relaxing and letting my arms go down along my body.

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You have a coker?

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habbywall

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I think I'm in love with habbywall

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habbywall said:

You have a coker?

Who me or Wobblin'?

I do.

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I have this problem too when riding on certain roads with a large
slope.. or driveway ramps.

I don't have a Coker, but a Torker DX Trials.

The wide tire really throws you off when you move from a thinner tire.

I usually just force myself to twist the other direction and I'm fine.

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podzol said:

Out on a ride on a dirt road today and doing some thinking about my
listing this way and that. Some times it is to the right, sometimes
left, sometimes towards the crown, other times away from the crown.
Seemed to have no ryme nor reason but was very real and annoying!!

I had a similar problem when I first moved from a 20" to 26" wheel.
The frame itself was an old 20" Pashley that had been cut and rewelded,
and the hub rebuilt in to a larger rim. I assumed that something
wasn't quite even, or central, but in the end it came down to the tyre.
It was a pretty chunky tyre (can't remember the make or model though),
with a tread pattern like this;

Code:
--------------------

A B C

|## ##|
|## ##|
| |
| ## |
| ## |
| |
|## ##|
|## ##|
| |
| ## |
| ## |
| |
|## ##|
|## ##|
| |
| ## |
| ## |
| |
--------------------

The reason seemed to be that on tarmac it wouldn't balance just on the
centre knobbles (B), but would either lean on to A & B or B & C.
Changing to a slick tyre cured the problem overnight.

STM

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podzol said:

Out on a ride on a dirt road today and doing some thinking about my
listing this way and that. Some times it is to the right, sometimes
left, sometimes towards the crown, other times away from the crown.
Seemed to have no ryme nor reason but was very real and annoying!!

After some thought, I figured out exactly what it was for me!
The placement of my feet on the pedals, how far away they are from the
hub, not front and back. For example, if my left foot was towards the
hub and right away, I would list to the right, even up the crown. If
they were opposite, I would go the other way. Centered from side to
side, the twist/lean was minimal. I think this is due to the increase
in lateral torque exherted on the wheel with increasing distance from
the hub. T=fx, right? so in a few centimeters can make a large
difference here.

Please give it a try and see if it happens for you, too!!

Thanks, Blake! I'm going to go test this theory right now.

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I'm glad you posted this. I've had my own issues with lean/twist, (and
my own half-baked theories to explain it). Next time I get out on the
roads I'll keep your idea in mind. Thanks!

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I posting about this same topic about 3 moths ago after I bought a KH
29. I was riding good but sometimes I would have to twist my whole
upper body to keep going strait. Most replies said that the saddle was
twisted. ths was not the case and I have tested twisting the saddle and
riding with no adverse effect. I kind of figgured out after a while
that it was badly positioned feet on the pedals sometimes this is hard
to fix because I have wicked pegs that dig into the bottom of my soles.
However I have noticed that holding on the seat handle helps you ride
more smoothly.

Unicorn

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Actually, if your foot position on the pedals is making such a
difference in your riding, it suggests you may be putting too much
weight on your feet. In any case, a combination of foot position, upper
body lean and twisting of the shoulders to one side or the other can
compensate for an uneven road surface.

On my Tahoe ride I know I was using lean and twist to try to ride in a
straight, even line. But on those steep crowns and hills, even this
amount of adjustment was enough to make my pedal strokes longer on one
side than the other. Eventually my right knee started to get really
sore, as the majority of the riding had to involve leaning left. This
created a longer reach to the right pedal so I eventually had to give
up the ride a few miles short of Kings Beach, my goal.

I know this road camber stuff can be learned, because Nathan and Beau
were miles and miles ahead of me (they circled the whole lake; 72
miles), and there were several other unicyclists there that day.

--
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johnfoss said:

On my Tahoe ride I know I was using lean and twist to try to ride in a
straight, even line. But on those steep crowns and hills, even this
amount of adjustment was enough to make my pedal strokes longer on one
side than the other. Eventually my right knee started to get really
sore, as the majority of the riding had to involve leaning left. This
created a longer reach to the right pedal so I eventually had to give
up the ride a few miles short of Kings Beach, my goal.

Would this be a good time to try different crank lengths on the left
and right side? Kind of like the oposite idea to setting up a Nascar?

STM

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johnfoss said:

...you may be putting too much weight on your feet. QUOTE]

Can you suggest another way to propel the wheel? My telekinesis skills
are not very good...

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Ok, I just got back from a 20-miler and I was experimenting with
adjusting for road crown,body-twist/body-lean by using Podzol's pedal
position adjustment theory (PPPAT). It seemed to work to a point, but
I'm still adjusting to the 125s so I'm not comfortable enough to adjust
and maintain the foot positions that well.

Anyway, Blake, I think there's some affect, as you say. If I wasn't
such a flailer, I could make a better judgement on the truthiness of
PPPAT.

The upside of the 125s: 20.34 miles in 1:51:04, avg speed 10.99mph
- WOOHOO!

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steveyo

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