Colnago made in Taiwan!

"This is a major step forward for the Italian bicycle industry,"

Bestest Handsander said:

But personally, I'll take a hand-made frame built in the good ol' USA over
any in the world. But I'm willing to pay for it too.

I like handmade stuff too but the hands can exist anywhere in the
world. Robots are more reliable than people.

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:37:36 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have no doubt that Taiwan CAN produce a frame as good as any in the world
as long as the company that's placing the order is willing to pay for high
quality work.

YOOU BETCHA!!

Just take a look at Mark Hickey's Chinese made Habanero
frames--workmanship and material quality on par with any ti frames I
have ever seen.

MHO

Guy A
Ripley, TN

Yikes? Maybe now the quality will improve! Colnago has never had a
"factory". All Colnago frames are sourced from other fabrication
facilities, so why not utilize some of the best bicycle frame
fabrication facilities in the world? Hey, I'm a big "made in the USA"
guy, and love the tradition of Italian frame building ( thank you
Antonio Mondonico! ), but this is simple economics here. In fact, I
applaud Ernesto for not trying to [censored] the public like so many
other "Italian" brands who say their stuff is still made in Italy when
it's clearly a chinese / taiwanese part. It's maybe time that the
mystique of Colnago finally falls. They're just bike frames, after all.
Some made somewhere in Italy, and now some made somewhere in Asia.
--Jim

Quoted message said:

Oh well, is an association with Trek far behind??

Welcome back! :>😉

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Meccanico di Bici" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yikes? Maybe now the quality will improve! Colnago has never had a
"factory". All Colnago frames are sourced from other fabrication
facilities, so why not utilize some of the best bicycle frame
fabrication facilities in the world? Hey, I'm a big "made in the USA"
guy, and love the tradition of Italian frame building ( thank you
Antonio Mondonico! ), but this is simple economics here. In fact, I
applaud Ernesto for not trying to [censored] the public like so many
other "Italian" brands who say their stuff is still made in Italy when
it's clearly a chinese / taiwanese part. It's maybe time that the
mystique of Colnago finally falls. They're just bike frames, after all.
Some made somewhere in Italy, and now some made somewhere in Asia.
--Jim

I think you have it wrong! They are not just bike frames. Colnago is
rideable artwork. It is truly the doctor and dentist bike. Colnago is the
bike that you dreamed about as a young racer. Now that you are older, you
have the disposable income to afford one. That's the marketing in a
nutshell...

Bruce

Bruce Gilbert said:

I think you have it wrong! They are not just bike frames. Colnago is
rideable artwork.

That's it. The only reason to buy one is because of the "feeling" that goes
with the Colnago name, just like Rolex, Leica or you name it. Colnago is
the bike made "con amore". Well, it was anyway.
I have the brochure here in which he says: "I couldn't accept that my frames
would be made anywhere else than in Italy".

I thought they were so expensive because of the expensive italian labour
costs. Will prices go down after they start making them in Taiwan?

Quoted message said:

Now that you are older, you have the disposable income to afford one.
That's the marketing in a nutshell...

I know 16 year old amateurs that have one here.

I think it's bad for the brand: why would anyone pay much more for a Colnago
bike built in the Far East than for a mailorder bike that was built in the
Far-East? The only difference will be the stickers.

And then something else: what will happen if a nature disaster will hit
Taiwan (earthquake/Tsunami?)? Won't we get any more bikeframes (and
computerchips) after that, because all cycling factories and know-how are
over there?

Greets, Derk

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bruce Gilbert said:

I think you have it wrong! They are not just bike frames. Colnago is
rideable artwork.

That's it. The only reason to buy one is because of the "feeling" that

goes

Quoted message said:

with the Colnago name, just like Rolex, Leica or you name it. Colnago is
the bike made "con amore". Well, it was anyway.
I have the brochure here in which he says: "I couldn't accept that my

frames

Quoted message said:

would be made anywhere else than in Italy".

I thought they were so expensive because of the expensive italian labour
costs. Will prices go down after they start making them in Taiwan?

Quoted message said:

Now that you are older, you have the disposable income to afford one.
That's the marketing in a nutshell...

I know 16 year old amateurs that have one here.

I think it's bad for the brand: why would anyone pay much more for a

Colnago

Quoted message said:

bike built in the Far East than for a mailorder bike that was built in the
Far-East? The only difference will be the stickers.

You have seen the light Derk. The paint job is the only difference.
What frame would be better:
a frame welded by a Italian welder in Italy,
a frame welded by a Taiwainese welder in Italy,
a frame welded by a Italian welder in Taiwan or
a frame welded by a Taiwanese welder in Taiwan?

Lou

Hi Lou,

No cycling is possible here. How's that in Limburg?

Lou Holtman said:

What frame would be better:
a frame welded by a Italian welder in Italy,
a frame welded by a Taiwainese welder in Italy,
a frame welded by a Italian welder in Taiwan or
a frame welded by a Taiwanese welder in Taiwan?

The one that was made with the best materials and welded by the best welder,
I guess.

Now that we're talking frame quality: I read loads of frame tests in several
magazines and I start wondering how one should interpret these tests. In
Germany there's an obsession with STW index. Very stiff lightweight frames
made/sold by mailorder companies are always tested best. I personally don't
like super stiff frames btw. Also, many pro-riders seem to be happy on
frames that are not stiff.

So, is there really a way to test frames and tell which one is best?
Which features of a frame determine wether a frame is good or not? STW?
Comfortable ride? Or what? How is it possible to declare a winner?

Greets, Derk

Bruce Gilbert said:

"Meccanico di Bici" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yikes? Maybe now the quality will improve! Colnago has never had a
"factory". All Colnago frames are sourced from other fabrication
facilities, so why not utilize some of the best bicycle frame
fabrication facilities in the world? Hey, I'm a big "made in the USA"
guy, and love the tradition of Italian frame building ( thank you
Antonio Mondonico! ), but this is simple economics here. In fact, I
applaud Ernesto for not trying to [censored] the public like so many
other "Italian" brands who say their stuff is still made in Italy when
it's clearly a chinese / taiwanese part. It's maybe time that the
mystique of Colnago finally falls. They're just bike frames, after all.
Some made somewhere in Italy, and now some made somewhere in Asia.
--Jim

I think you have it wrong! They are not just bike frames. Colnago is
rideable artwork. It is truly the doctor and dentist bike. Colnago is the
bike that you dreamed about as a young racer. Now that you are older, you
have the disposable income to afford one. That's the marketing in a
nutshell...

Bruce

Not even close. Wander around inside a Colnago, look at it close, deal
with the US importer and it is a average frameset with a $1000 decal on it.

Merckx, DeRosa, Pinarello, Pegoretti, Mondonico...those are quality Euro
framesets. Colnago's are no mas!!

Derk said:

Hi Lou,

No cycling is possible here. How's that in Limburg?

Lou Holtman said:

What frame would be better:
a frame welded by a Italian welder in Italy,
a frame welded by a Taiwainese welder in Italy,
a frame welded by a Italian welder in Taiwan or
a frame welded by a Taiwanese welder in Taiwan?

The one that was made with the best materials and welded by the best welder,
I guess.

Now that we're talking frame quality: I read loads of frame tests in several
magazines and I start wondering how one should interpret these tests. In
Germany there's an obsession with STW index. Very stiff lightweight frames
made/sold by mailorder companies are always tested best. I personally don't
like super stiff frames btw. Also, many pro-riders seem to be happy on
frames that are not stiff.

The mail order companies require advertisable features any measurable
characteristic is advertizable, STW would be one of those. Other bikes can be
sold on the basis that they are comfortable, beautiful, whatever.

Quoted message said:

So, is there really a way to test frames and tell which one is best?
Which features of a frame determine wether a frame is good or not? STW?
Comfortable ride? Or what? How is it possible to declare a winner?

The one you want to pay out your money for is the winner of that round. Next
fight in seven seconds when the next guy walks through the door.

Ron

RonSonic said:

The one you want to pay out your money for is the winner of that round.
Next fight in seven seconds when the next guy walks through the door.

yes, but lab tests only show characteristics of the brand new frame. What
will the frame be like after years of use? Maybe magazines should ask
riders of frames how happy they are after a few years and ask them if they
had problems with the frame. THat way it will be easier to see if some
brands have more problems than others.

Greetings, Derk

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Yikes? Maybe now the quality will improve! Colnago has never had a
"factory". All Colnago frames are sourced from other fabrication
facilities, so why not utilize some of the best bicycle frame
fabrication facilities in the world? Hey, I'm a big "made in the USA"
guy, and love the tradition of Italian frame building ( thank you
Antonio Mondonico! ), but this is simple economics here. In fact, I
applaud Ernesto for not trying to [censored] the public like so many
other "Italian" brands who say their stuff is still made in Italy when
it's clearly a chinese / taiwanese part. It's maybe time that the
mystique of Colnago finally falls. They're just bike frames, after all.
Some made somewhere in Italy, and now some made somewhere in Asia.

Let's see if the price drops to reflect the lower cost of production. Somehow
I doubt it.
-----------
Alex

"Qui Si Parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1109859036.2e3fd132ddfd17be7a1cc240cce32ea0@teranews...

Quoted message said:

Bruce Gilbert said:

"Meccanico di Bici" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yikes? Maybe now the quality will improve! Colnago has never

had a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"factory". All Colnago frames are sourced from other

fabrication

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

facilities, so why not utilize some of the best bicycle frame
fabrication facilities in the world? Hey, I'm a big "made in

the USA"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

guy, and love the tradition of Italian frame building ( thank

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Antonio Mondonico! ), but this is simple economics here. In

fact, I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

applaud Ernesto for not trying to [censored] the public like so

many

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

other "Italian" brands who say their stuff is still made in

Italy when

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it's clearly a chinese / taiwanese part. It's maybe time that

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mystique of Colnago finally falls. They're just bike frames,

after all.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some made somewhere in Italy, and now some made somewhere in

Asia.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--Jim

I think you have it wrong! They are not just bike frames.

Colnago is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rideable artwork. It is truly the doctor and dentist bike.

Colnago is the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bike that you dreamed about as a young racer. Now that you

are older, you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have the disposable income to afford one. That's the

marketing in a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

nutshell...

Bruce

Not even close. Wander around inside a Colnago, look at it

close, deal

Quoted message said:

with the US importer and it is a average frameset with a $1000

decal on it.

Quoted message said:

Merckx, DeRosa, Pinarello, Pegoretti, Mondonico...those are

quality Euro

Quoted message said:

framesets. Colnago's are no mas!!

The quality plummeted in the late '70s/early '80s when Colnago
went mass market. I was amazed when Colnago rehabbed its brand
and became a yuppie icon in the '90s. Making the low-end stuff
in Taiwan will be an improvement. -- Jay Beattie.

[email hidden said:

"]"This is a major step forward for the Italian bicycle industry,"

HA! Good one. Last C. Bititan I saw looked like a drunk welded it. I guess I am spoiled with Litespeed, Merlin and Seven welds. IF has some pretty ones too. Come to think of it, even Airborne Ti welds are better looking.

Colnago is nothing more than brand identity. One C Bitian rider claimed his bike was all Ti. I took a magnet and stuck it to the fork. Yes, steel fork. :eek:

Qui Si Parla Campagnolo said:

Merckx, DeRosa, Pinarello, Pegoretti, Mondonico...those are quality Euro
framesets. Colnago's are no mas!!

I thought we agreed that the plural is "Colnaghi" or for the purista,
"cicli Colnago".

Quindi dicciamo "I Colnaghi no c'e di piu"

My steel Merckx has a "Handmade in Belgium" sticker on the frame - do
they still say that?

--
My bike blog:
http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

Diablo Scott said:

My steel Merckx has a "Handmade in Belgium" sticker on the frame - do
they still say that?

Yes they can! I visited the factory in Meise, Belgium and spoke to the
person who made my MX Leader. Merckx really is a no-nonsense top quality
frame builder.

Greets, Derk

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RonSonic said:

The one you want to pay out your money for is the winner of that round.
Next fight in seven seconds when the next guy walks through the door.

yes, but lab tests only show characteristics of the brand new frame. What
will the frame be like after years of use? Maybe magazines should ask
riders of frames how happy they are after a few years and ask them if they
had problems with the frame. THat way it will be easier to see if some
brands have more problems than others.

That would be great! Create some sort of database similar to the repair
surveys that Consumer Reports has for cars.

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:04:11 +0100, Derk <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hi Lou,

No cycling is possible here. How's that in Limburg?

Lou Holtman said:

What frame would be better:
a frame welded by a Italian welder in Italy,
a frame welded by a Taiwainese welder in Italy,
a frame welded by a Italian welder in Taiwan or
a frame welded by a Taiwanese welder in Taiwan?

The one that was made with the best materials and welded by the best welder,
I guess.

Now that we're talking frame quality: I read loads of frame tests in several
magazines and I start wondering how one should interpret these tests. In
Germany there's an obsession with STW index. Very stiff lightweight frames
made/sold by mailorder companies are always tested best. I personally don't
like super stiff frames btw. Also, many pro-riders seem to be happy on
frames that are not stiff.

So, is there really a way to test frames and tell which one is best?
Which features of a frame determine wether a frame is good or not? STW?
Comfortable ride? Or what? How is it possible to declare a winner?

Greets, Derk

STW is only one measure, and since it's a ratio (stiffness divided by
weight) it's not the whole story. Stiffness alone (without being
divided by weight) is often an important measurement for big or heavy
riders, and weight alone is always interesting. So in my opinion STW
is interesting as an engineering measure of structural efficiency,
more than a reason to buy a bike.

But TOUR also reports the stiffness measurement and the weight, so
it's good to have that data.