Comments on this route

Dundonald said:

http://www.dundonsoft.com/routes/glyders.gif (note 700k). Starts Nant
Peris taking in Elidir Fawr, Foel Goch, Y Garn, Glyder Fawr / Fach,
finishing with Tryfan.

Depending on conditions I may choose to descend Glyder Fach via
bristley ridge rather than the scree.

Any comments?

Personally I'd prefer to do that route in reverse. I think it's much better
to go up Tryfan's North Ridge than down. Same with Bristly Ridge, climbing
up is much easier than down. In fact, if you do it the way you've planned,
I'd avoid descending via Bristly. Descending scree is fine IMO, it can be
quite fun in fact, but not the other way around.

Scramble up, scree down.

If you do it that way, but don't fancy the scree, take the path to the east
instead, then turn left and follow it northwest to the col, a much nicer
path.

As a rule, I prefer to plan walks that have steep ups and gentle downs,
rather than the other way around. Much better for the knees.

Paul

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dundonald said:

http://www.dundonsoft.com/routes/glyders.gif (note 700k). Starts Nant
Peris taking in Elidir Fawr, Foel Goch, Y Garn, Glyder Fawr / Fach,
finishing with Tryfan.

Depending on conditions I may choose to descend Glyder Fach via
bristley ridge rather than the scree.

Any comments?

Personally I'd prefer to do that route in reverse. I think it's much
better to go up Tryfan's North Ridge than down. Same with Bristly Ridge,
climbing up is much easier than down. In fact, if you do it the way
you've planned, I'd avoid descending via Bristly. Descending scree is
fine IMO, it can be quite fun in fact, but not the other way around.

Scramble up, scree down.

If you do it that way, but don't fancy the scree, take the path to the
east instead, then turn left and follow it northwest to the col, a much
nicer path.

As a rule, I prefer to plan walks that have steep ups and gentle downs,
rather than the other way around. Much better for the knees.

Paul

I think I'd agree with Paul about direction if you want to do Tryfan North
Ridge and Bristly Ridge. You could also whizz down off Elidir Fawr WSW then
S-ish to join the Cwm Dudodyn path at about 612600.

Other than that it's the middle leg of the Welsh 3000s isn't it?

I was up on Elidir Fawr in the recent snowcover. Fabulous views of Ogwen and
Llanberis passes. It's a great viewpoint.

Roy.

Dundonald said:

I recently bought mapping software for the first time in Anquet. I've
planned a route to take a few friends mountain walking end of April.
Map from Anquet in gif format can be seen here -->
http://www.dundonsoft.com/routes/glyders.gif (note 700k). Starts Nant
Peris taking in Elidir Fawr, Foel Goch, Y Garn, Glyder Fawr / Fach,
finishing with Tryfan.

Depending on conditions I may choose to descend Glyder Fach via
bristley ridge rather than the scree.

Any comments?

I would agree with Paul, much better to do this the other way round.
Apart from anything else, it avoids spending up to 2 hours slogging up
Elidir Fawr at the start of the walk. Also, IMHO, Elidir Fawr is
probably the least interesting of the group, so leaving it until last
means if you get too much behind schedule (or the weather turns) you
are not missing much if you decide descend before you get there.

John

Dundonald said:

I recently bought mapping software for the first time in Anquet. I've
planned a route to take a few friends mountain walking end of April.
Map from Anquet in gif format can be seen here -->
http://www.dundonsoft.com/routes/glyders.gif (note 700k). Starts Nant
Peris taking in Elidir Fawr, Foel Goch, Y Garn, Glyder Fawr / Fach,
finishing with Tryfan.

Depending on conditions I may choose to descend Glyder Fach via
bristley ridge rather than the scree.

Any comments?

I would agree with Paul, much better to do this the other way round.
Apart from anything else, it avoids spending up to 2 hours slogging up
Elidir Fawr at the start of the walk. Also, IMHO, Elidir Fawr is
probably the least interesting of the group, so leaving it until last
means if you get too much behind schedule (or the weather turns) you
are not missing much if you decide descend before you get there.

John

Dundonald said:

I recently bought mapping software for the first time in Anquet. I've
planned a route to take a few friends mountain walking end of April.
Map from Anquet in gif format can be seen here -->
http://www.dundonsoft.com/routes/glyders.gif (note 700k). Starts Nant
Peris taking in Elidir Fawr, Foel Goch, Y Garn, Glyder Fawr / Fach,
finishing with Tryfan.

Depending on conditions I may choose to descend Glyder Fach via
bristley ridge rather than the scree.

Any comments?

The Bristly Ridge is a Grade 1 scramble (the easiest grade) but still
requiring hands as well as feet and careful choice of holds.
Downclimbing any scramble or rock climb is more difficult than ascending
because -

You can't see the holds you are aiming for
Routefinding is more difficult
You are always looking down, which some find unsettling
It isn't as much fun.

Unless you and your companions know the scrambling route well, I would
*strongly* recommend that you do not try to downclimb the Bristly Ridge,
especially at the end of a long day.

Any scramble included in a route increases the duration considerably -
Naismith's Rule is for walking, not scrambling. I would add 30 minutes
or so for an ascent of Bristly Ridge by an experienced party, more if
there were novice scramblers or the party was large. Downclimbing it
will take even longer.

The same goes for Tryfan, really. Tryfan is a scrambly joy to ascend
from the Ogwen valley and a great start to a mountain day. As a descent
at the end of a day, it will be tedious and awkward, requiring care in
foot placement when you are tired.

This way round, your route includes about 5700 feet of ascent. If
reversed, its only 5000 feet.

Generally, your route gets more difficult as it progresses, with the
hardest parts at the end. Also, it will be difficult to abbreviate if
you find yourself running out of time or the weather turns on you.

This route will take a reasonably fit walker about eight hours, allowing
for lunch and scrambling on Tryfan and the Bristly Ridge. An early-ish
start would be better than a late one.

I would definitely plan to walk this route in the opposite direction,
starting with Tryfan and the Bristly Ridge. After the Glyders you can
keep an eye on the time and turn West down one of the paths on the easy
slopes into the Llanberis pass when you have about an hour of daylight
remaining.

Just my opinion, of course. Hope you enjoy it whichever way you decide
to go, and have a great day out.

"Dundonald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I recently bought mapping software for the first time in Anquet. I've
planned a route to take a few friends mountain walking end of April.
Map from Anquet in gif format can be seen here -->
http://www.dundonsoft.com/routes/glyders.gif (note 700k). Starts Nant
Peris taking in Elidir Fawr, Foel Goch, Y Garn, Glyder Fawr / Fach,
finishing with Tryfan.

Depending on conditions I may choose to descend Glyder Fach via
bristley ridge rather than the scree.

Agree with Paul. If you and your friends are confident on rock then it's
your own decision, but i wet myself on certain parts of Bristley ridge going
up, never mind coming down!

Graham

Roy said:

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dundonald said:

http://www.dundonsoft.com/routes/glyders.gif (note 700k). Starts Nant
Peris taking in Elidir Fawr, Foel Goch, Y Garn, Glyder Fawr / Fach,
finishing with Tryfan.

Depending on conditions I may choose to descend Glyder Fach via
bristley ridge rather than the scree.

Any comments?

Personally I'd prefer to do that route in reverse. I think it's much
better to go up Tryfan's North Ridge than down. Same with Bristly Ridge,
climbing up is much easier than down. In fact, if you do it the way
you've planned, I'd avoid descending via Bristly. Descending scree is
fine IMO, it can be quite fun in fact, but not the other way around.

Scramble up, scree down.

If you do it that way, but don't fancy the scree, take the path to the
east instead, then turn left and follow it northwest to the col, a much
nicer path.

As a rule, I prefer to plan walks that have steep ups and gentle downs,
rather than the other way around. Much better for the knees.

Paul

I think I'd agree with Paul about direction if you want to do Tryfan North
Ridge and Bristly Ridge. You could also whizz down off Elidir Fawr WSW then
S-ish to join the Cwm Dudodyn path at about 612600.

Other than that it's the middle leg of the Welsh 3000s isn't it?

That's right, apart from Foel Goch, bit since we were so close to it in
passing I figured we might as well detour up there.

Quoted message said:

I was up on Elidir Fawr in the recent snowcover. Fabulous views of Ogwen and
Llanberis passes. It's a great viewpoint.

I'm looking forward to the walk, first planned walk this year. I'm in
training for doing the welsh 3k's (again) this year in July followed by
the 24 peaks in lake district in September.

Paul Saunders said:

Dundonald said:

http://www.dundonsoft.com/routes/glyders.gif (note 700k). Starts Nant
Peris taking in Elidir Fawr, Foel Goch, Y Garn, Glyder Fawr / Fach,
finishing with Tryfan.

Depending on conditions I may choose to descend Glyder Fach via
bristley ridge rather than the scree.

Any comments?

Personally I'd prefer to do that route in reverse.

I was (and still am) tempted to do that, but some of my friends have
never done tryfan so I wanted it to be a fitting climax to the end of
the walk. When descending glyder fach the view of tryfan standing in
isolation is amazing. That's the only reason I may still persist in
that direction. Another alternative would be to descend tryfan the
same was as up and descend to the road via devil's kitchen.

Quoted message said:

I think it's much better
to go up Tryfan's North Ridge than down.

I haven't actually walked tryfan's north ridge either way yet so thanks
for the heads up.

Quoted message said:

Same with Bristly Ridge, climbing
up is much easier than down. In fact, if you do it the way you've planned,
I'd avoid descending via Bristly. Descending scree is fine IMO, it can be
quite fun in fact, but not the other way around.

Scramble up, scree down.

If you do it that way, but don't fancy the scree, take the path to the east
instead, then turn left and follow it northwest to the col, a much nicer
path.

As a rule, I prefer to plan walks that have steep ups and gentle downs,
rather than the other way around. Much better for the knees.

Paul

Quoted message said:

Dundonald said:

I recently bought mapping software for the first time in Anquet. I've
planned a route to take a few friends mountain walking end of April.
Map from Anquet in gif format can be seen here -->
http://www.dundonsoft.com/routes/glyders.gif (note 700k). Starts Nant
Peris taking in Elidir Fawr, Foel Goch, Y Garn, Glyder Fawr / Fach,
finishing with Tryfan.

Depending on conditions I may choose to descend Glyder Fach via
bristley ridge rather than the scree.

Any comments?

I would agree with Paul, much better to do this the other way round.
Apart from anything else, it avoids spending up to 2 hours slogging up
Elidir Fawr at the start of the walk. Also, IMHO, Elidir Fawr is
probably the least interesting of the group, so leaving it until last
means if you get too much behind schedule (or the weather turns) you
are not missing much if you decide descend before you get there.

Good point about the weather John. I also have a few 'escape' points
planned in case of any reason, namely the paths down to the two llyns
from y garn, and glyders.

Alan Dicey said:

Dundonald said:

I recently bought mapping software for the first time in Anquet. I've
planned a route to take a few friends mountain walking end of April.
Map from Anquet in gif format can be seen here -->
http://www.dundonsoft.com/routes/glyders.gif (note 700k). Starts Nant
Peris taking in Elidir Fawr, Foel Goch, Y Garn, Glyder Fawr / Fach,
finishing with Tryfan.

Depending on conditions I may choose to descend Glyder Fach via
bristley ridge rather than the scree.

Any comments?

The Bristly Ridge is a Grade 1 scramble (the easiest grade) but still
requiring hands as well as feet and careful choice of holds.
Downclimbing any scramble or rock climb is more difficult than ascending
because -

You can't see the holds you are aiming for
Routefinding is more difficult
You are always looking down, which some find unsettling
It isn't as much fun.

Unless you and your companions know the scrambling route well, I would
*strongly* recommend that you do not try to downclimb the Bristly Ridge,
especially at the end of a long day.

Any scramble included in a route increases the duration considerably -
Naismith's Rule is for walking, not scrambling. I would add 30 minutes
or so for an ascent of Bristly Ridge by an experienced party, more if
there were novice scramblers or the party was large. Downclimbing it
will take even longer.

The same goes for Tryfan, really. Tryfan is a scrambly joy to ascend
from the Ogwen valley and a great start to a mountain day. As a descent
at the end of a day, it will be tedious and awkward, requiring care in
foot placement when you are tired.

This way round, your route includes about 5700 feet of ascent. If
reversed, its only 5000 feet.

Generally, your route gets more difficult as it progresses, with the
hardest parts at the end. Also, it will be difficult to abbreviate if
you find yourself running out of time or the weather turns on you.

This route will take a reasonably fit walker about eight hours, allowing
for lunch and scrambling on Tryfan and the Bristly Ridge. An early-ish
start would be better than a late one.

I would definitely plan to walk this route in the opposite direction,
starting with Tryfan and the Bristly Ridge. After the Glyders you can
keep an eye on the time and turn West down one of the paths on the easy
slopes into the Llanberis pass when you have about an hour of daylight
remaining.

Just my opinion, of course. Hope you enjoy it whichever way you decide
to go, and have a great day out.

All valid points Alan and much appreciated. The consus does appear to
be to reverse the route, and I have no objection to that either and I
agree with all the points so the good thing is with Anquet I can simply
click on reverse route to take care of way point ordering.

Graham Seed said:

"Dundonald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I recently bought mapping software for the first time in Anquet. I've
planned a route to take a few friends mountain walking end of April.
Map from Anquet in gif format can be seen here -->
http://www.dundonsoft.com/routes/glyders.gif (note 700k). Starts Nant
Peris taking in Elidir Fawr, Foel Goch, Y Garn, Glyder Fawr / Fach,
finishing with Tryfan.

Depending on conditions I may choose to descend Glyder Fach via
bristley ridge rather than the scree.

Agree with Paul. If you and your friends are confident on rock then it's
your own decision, but i wet myself on certain parts of Bristley ridge going
up, never mind coming down!

🙂 I haven't actually done bristley ridge, how does it compare to
climbing crib goch?

"Dundonald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Graham Seed said:

"Dundonald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I recently bought mapping software for the first time in Anquet. I've
planned a route to take a few friends mountain walking end of April.
Map from Anquet in gif format can be seen here -->
http://www.dundonsoft.com/routes/glyders.gif (note 700k). Starts Nant
Peris taking in Elidir Fawr, Foel Goch, Y Garn, Glyder Fawr / Fach,
finishing with Tryfan.

Depending on conditions I may choose to descend Glyder Fach via
bristley ridge rather than the scree.

Agree with Paul. If you and your friends are confident on rock then it's
your own decision, but i wet myself on certain parts of Bristley ridge
going
up, never mind coming down!

🙂 I haven't actually done bristley ridge, how does it compare to
climbing crib goch?

More hands on needed, quite like the scramble at the three pinnacles on Grib
Goch but more of it. Less exposure. No hands in pockets walking along a
level knife edge. Shorter in length. Some scope for making easier or harder
by choice of route. Harder in descent. Have done it both ways and by choice
would go for ascent.

Mike Mason

Dundonald said:

Quoted message said:

Personally I'd prefer to do that route in reverse.

I was (and still am) tempted to do that, but some of my friends have
never done tryfan so I wanted it to be a fitting climax to the end of
the walk.

Wrong kind of climax IMO. I once climbed Tryfan at the end of the day to
photograph the sunset from the top,
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/pg/gl/aes75.jpg but getting down in the
fading light was no joke. I chose to avoid the North Ridge and descended
via a gully to the west. Knackered my knee in the process and ruined the
rest of my trip.

Quoted message said:

When descending glyder fach the view of tryfan standing in
isolation is amazing.

I agree, which is a good *visual* climax, but not such a good walking climax
IMO.

Quoted message said:

That's the only reason I may still persist in
that direction.

You can always turn around and look back if you do it the other way! I
recommend stopping for a picnic when you reach the top of Bristly so that
you can enjoy looking at your accomplishments for a while!

The thing about Tryfan is that *climbing it* is the challenge. The ascent
from the col to the south is little more than a rocky walk, and going up it
that way is an anti-climax IMO. You'd be left with the feeling "is that
all? that wasn't very hard", but then you'd start thinking, "[censored], how do we
get down off this thing?" There's no obvious path, and some bits are really
dangerous if you don't go down the right way.

First time I went up Tryfan it was from the south col, and although I got an
"experience" (see above), it wasn't the "classic" Tryfan experience that I
later got when I climbed the North Ridge. When you get to the top you
really feel you've achieved something, then Bristly is even harder! You
retain that satisfaction for the rest of the walk.

Quoted message said:

Another alternative would be to descend tryfan the
same was as up and descend to the road via devil's kitchen.

Then you'd be missing the best bit completely.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think it's much better
to go up Tryfan's North Ridge than down.

I haven't actually walked tryfan's north ridge either way yet so
thanks for the heads up.

You don't "walk" Tryfan's North Ridge! Maybe that's your problem, you don't
realise how much of a scramble it is. Didn't you see my recent scrambling
video grabs?
http://www.pvs1.f2s.com/scrambling.jpg
Another poor shot from our urw "expedition" a few years back
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/urw/expedition1/n16exp75.jpg
Sorry I don't have any better pics offhand.

Much as I love going up North Ridge and Bristly, I wouldn't want to come
down either of them, period. If you really want to do the route that way, I
think you should *climb* up them beforehand to find out what you're letting
yourself in for!

Sorry if I'm pressing the point a bit too hard, maybe you're confident on
rock and have no problems with steep scrambly descents, but I just don't
think that's the best way to enjoy the Tryfan experience. You're setting
yourself up for tricky descents at the end of the day when you may be tired
and prone to making mistakes, instead of enjoying the challenge of the
ascents in the early morning sun when you're fresh.

But whatever you decide, hope you have a great time.

Paul

Dundonald said:

🙂 I haven't actually done bristley ridge, how does it compare to
climbing crib goch?

Crib Goch is a walk... :-)

Paul

Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from Paul Saunders
contained the following:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

🙂 I haven't actually done bristley ridge, how does it compare to
climbing crib goch?

Crib Goch is a walk... :-)

OK, try this for a definition:

A walk is something you can do with a dog.

(without worrying about the dog's safety)

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

In message <[email hidden]>, Geoff Berrow
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from Paul Saunders
contained the following:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

🙂 I haven't actually done bristley ridge, how does it compare to
climbing crib goch?

Crib Goch is a walk... :-)

OK, try this for a definition:

A walk is something you can do with a dog.

(without worrying about the dog's safety)

So that's crossing the road ruled out then.

--
Martin Richardson
283/284 Munros - 0.35% to go 34/34 'Furths'- 0% to go
57/89 Donalds - 36% to go 506/1554 Marilyns - 67% to go
376/525 Hewitts - 28% to go (E=178/178; W=137/137; I=61/211)

Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from Martin
Richardson contained the following:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OK, try this for a definition:

A walk is something you can do with a dog.

(without worrying about the dog's safety)

So that's crossing the road ruled out then.

No, I carry a lead for that (and for when there are livestock about,
obviously)

Bear in mind the dog can get up some sections where I have to use my
hands, like a downfall for instance. The benefits of four wheel drive.
:-)

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

Paul Saunders said:

Dundonald said:

Quoted message said:

Personally I'd prefer to do that route in reverse.

I was (and still am) tempted to do that, but some of my friends have
never done tryfan so I wanted it to be a fitting climax to the end of
the walk.

Wrong kind of climax IMO. I once climbed Tryfan at the end of the day to
photograph the sunset from the top,
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/pg/gl/aes75.jpg

Nice shot!

Quoted message said:

but getting down in the
fading light was no joke. I chose to avoid the North Ridge and descended
via a gully to the west. Knackered my knee in the process and ruined the
rest of my trip.

Quoted message said:

When descending glyder fach the view of tryfan standing in
isolation is amazing.

I agree, which is a good *visual* climax, but not such a good walking climax
IMO.

Quoted message said:

That's the only reason I may still persist in
that direction.

You can always turn around and look back if you do it the other way! I
recommend stopping for a picnic when you reach the top of Bristly so that
you can enjoy looking at your accomplishments for a while!

The thing about Tryfan is that *climbing it* is the challenge. The ascent
from the col to the south is little more than a rocky walk, and going up it
that way is an anti-climax IMO. You'd be left with the feeling "is that
all? that wasn't very hard", but then you'd start thinking, "[censored], how do we
get down off this thing?" There's no obvious path, and some bits are really
dangerous if you don't go down the right way.

First time I went up Tryfan it was from the south col, and although I got an
"experience" (see above), it wasn't the "classic" Tryfan experience that I
later got when I climbed the North Ridge. When you get to the top you
really feel you've achieved something, then Bristly is even harder! You
retain that satisfaction for the rest of the walk.

Quoted message said:

Another alternative would be to descend tryfan the
same was as up and descend to the road via devil's kitchen.

Then you'd be missing the best bit completely.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think it's much better
to go up Tryfan's North Ridge than down.

I haven't actually walked tryfan's north ridge either way yet so
thanks for the heads up.

You don't "walk" Tryfan's North Ridge! Maybe that's your problem, you don't
realise how much of a scramble it is. Didn't you see my recent scrambling
video grabs?
http://www.pvs1.f2s.com/scrambling.jpg
Another poor shot from our urw "expedition" a few years back
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/urw/expedition1/n16exp75.jpg
Sorry I don't have any better pics offhand.

Those are some good shots, thanks. Very similar to crib goch ascent.
Those shots are useful because as I say I haven't actually ascended
tryfan from it's north face. I was under no illusion with it being a
walk, I used the wrong verb there.

Quoted message said:

Much as I love going up North Ridge and Bristly, I wouldn't want to come
down either of them, period. If you really want to do the route that way, I
think you should *climb* up them beforehand to find out what you're letting
yourself in for!

Sorry if I'm pressing the point a bit too hard, maybe you're confident on
rock and have no problems with steep scrambly descents, but I just don't
think that's the best way to enjoy the Tryfan experience. You're setting
yourself up for tricky descents at the end of the day when you may be tired
and prone to making mistakes, instead of enjoying the challenge of the
ascents in the early morning sun when you're fresh.

No problem, I appreciate the feedback which is exactly why I posted the
route for comments. Thanks for your help.

Quoted message said:

But whatever you decide, hope you have a great time.

Paul

On 25/3/06 01:44, in article
[email hidden], "Dundonald"

Quoted message said:

🙂 I haven't actually done bristley ridge, how does it compare to
climbing crib goch?

Less committing.

--
Andy Howell, Birmingham, UK. To mail simply put back the dots ...

Must Be Over There ...
http://www.ecotrend.org.uk/trek