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Commercial ranges in homes prohibited

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
12 April 2005
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14 April 2005
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--
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  1. I was checking on fire resistance for another post, and came across these
    two requirements in the 2003 International Building Standards (the new US
    building code)

    It seems that you cannot legally have a true commercial range in your
    house -

    (code appliances include ranges and cooktops)

    G2447.2 (623.2) Prohibited location. Cooking appliances designed,

    tested, listed and labeled for use in commercial occupancies

    shall not be installed within dwelling units or within

    any area where domestic cooking operations occur.

    G2447.3 (623.3) Domestic appliances. Cooking appliances

    installed within dwelling units and within areas where domestic

    cooking operations occur shall be listed and labeled as

    household-type appliances for domestic use.

    --------------

    The disclaimer: this is not a legal or professional opinion.

  2. "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    G2447.2 (623.2) Prohibited location. Cooking appliances designed,

    tested, listed and labeled for use in commercial occupancies

    shall not be installed within dwelling units or within

    any area where domestic cooking operations occur.

    People have done it, but I takes some special precautions. Commercial


    units

    Quoted message said:

    are not insulated and require more clearance than a home range.

    OK, thanks, I was just about to ask what the difference was.
    Have you heard of anyone doing it and getting an inspector to
    sign off on the installation, and if so what did this require
    (presumably, extra insulation, added clearance, heat shielding)?

    Bob M.

  3. Bob Myers said:

    "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    G2447.2 (623.2) Prohibited location. Cooking appliances designed,

    tested, listed and labeled for use in commercial occupancies

    shall not be installed within dwelling units or within

    any area where domestic cooking operations occur.

    People have done it, but I takes some special precautions.
    Commercial units are not insulated and require more clearance than a
    home range.

    OK, thanks, I was just about to ask what the difference was.
    Have you heard of anyone doing it and getting an inspector to
    sign off on the installation, and if so what did this require
    (presumably, extra insulation, added clearance, heat shielding)?

    Bob M.


    Ventilation?

    --
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    Return address supplied by 'spammotel'
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  4. "Bob Myers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    G2447.2 (623.2) Prohibited location. Cooking appliances designed,

    tested, listed and labeled for use in commercial occupancies

    shall not be installed within dwelling units or within

    any area where domestic cooking operations occur.

    People have done it, but I takes some special precautions. Commercial


    units

    Quoted message said:

    are not insulated and require more clearance than a home range.

    OK, thanks, I was just about to ask what the difference was.
    Have you heard of anyone doing it and getting an inspector to
    sign off on the installation, and if so what did this require
    (presumably, extra insulation, added clearance, heat shielding)?

    Bob M.

    For sake of discussion (since it is unlikely that any trained inspector
    would ever contravene such a specific code requirement and allow a
    commercial unit in a dwelling unless it had been modifed to meet the
    residential appliance standard such that it then is no longer a "real"
    commercial unit).

    The major problems I see OFTOMH, from some commercial kitchens I have
    advised on, would revolve around
    somehow protecting sleeping areas in the dwelling;
    dwelling construction for the longer and higher fire rating of a commercial
    kitchen even with the areas special requiremnts not normally found in homes;
    daily required cleaning around the units;
    commercial venting;
    venting impacts on others in a city zone not rated commercial;
    high-fire-resistant floors, walls, and ceilings;
    fire suppression systems including city-checked fire extinguishers;
    and regular city inspection of the home kitchen to assure continued
    compliance.

    You would certainly need tile and metal and heat-resistant mineral-type
    fire-rated panel all around the unit and as the walls and entire ceiling in
    the room to relaibly contain any fire and smoke.
    You would likely need to be sprinklered in some fashion (some allow misted
    water, others have special gases and powders) in the hood over the unit, and
    a catch basin/dam for the suprressant and burning grease that will spill
    when the suppression is activated.
    You would for sure need a vent hood with a fire-suppression damper and
    gas-lockdown valves, and strange as the first-blush of this one seems,
    likely you would need marked exits from the kitchen (smoke, hard floors,
    etc.).
    You would almost certainly be required these days to have a metal
    fire-rated door with fire-system lock and stop overrides on opposite sides
    of the kitchen.

    And a few other things, things that make it is easier to get a
    residential rated appliance that looks like a commercial unit than to have a
    real commercial appliance.

    FWIW, Most units that are labeled commercial are probably just that in name.

    Quoted message said:
  5. Bob Myers said:


    "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    G2447.2 (623.2) Prohibited location. Cooking appliances designed,

    tested, listed and labeled for use in commercial occupancies

    shall not be installed within dwelling units or within

    any area where domestic cooking operations occur.

    People have done it, but I takes some special precautions. Commercial


    units

    Quoted message said:

    are not insulated and require more clearance than a home range.

    OK, thanks, I was just about to ask what the difference was.

    http://ths.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/appl/2004064556019303.html

    Quoted message said:

    Have you heard of anyone doing it and getting an inspector to
    sign off on the installation, and if so what did this require
    (presumably, extra insulation, added clearance, heat shielding)?


    If you want to know manufacturer recommendations, go to their web site
    and read all about it. Local building codes vary, so the best place
    to find out local answers to questions concerning local building codes
    is your local Department of Planning.

    Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

  6. censored Head (--) said:


    For sake of discussion (since it is unlikely that any trained


    inspector

    Quoted message said:

    would ever contravene such a specific code requirement and allow a
    commercial unit in a dwelling unless it had been modifed to meet the
    residential appliance standard such that it then is no longer a


    "real"

    Quoted message said:

    commercial unit).

    Why should anyone believe you, you don't even have a name (okay, [censored]
    Head), let alone a diploma, not even a GED... you are a friggin' idiot,
    and obviously
    mentally ill.

    Sheldon

  7. sf said:
    Bob Myers said:

    "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

    Some unnamed imbecile scribbled:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > G2447.2 (623.2) Prohibited location. Cooking appliances


    designed,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >
    > tested, listed and labeled for use in commercial occupancies
    >
    > shall not be installed within dwelling units or within
    >
    > any area where domestic cooking operations occur.

    People have done it, but I takes some special precautions.


    Commercial

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    units

    Quoted message said:

    are not insulated and require more clearance than a home range.

    OK, thanks, I was just about to ask what the difference was.

    http://ths.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/appl/2004064556019303.html

    Quoted message said:

    Have you heard of anyone doing it and getting an inspector to
    sign off on the installation, and if so what did this require
    (presumably, extra insulation, added clearance, heat shielding)?

    Take the pointy stick out of your ass.

    Quoted message said:

    If you want to know manufacturer recommendations, go to their web


    site

    Quoted message said:

    and read all about it. Local building codes vary, so the best place
    to find out local answers to questions concerning local building


    codes

    Quoted message said:

    is your local Department of Planning.

    Absolutely. Also check with your local fire department. And naturally
    the most important is to check with your home owners insurance company.
    I've had a commercial stove (Garland). It's more problematic
    satisfing code to install a wood burning stove, I have one in my
    basement, heats the entire house as it's water jacketed and runs the
    baseboard, also domestic hot water... but I choose not to use it, I
    heat with a a boiler (propane). But I still pay about $35/yr on my
    premium simply because it's in the house, another added $35/yr because
    I have a masonary fireplace (never use that either). A commercial
    stove is no biggie. Allstate sent an inspector to make sure the
    installation satisfied not only local code but also their recquisites.
    It's really no biggie to satify code for a commercial stove in a
    private dwelling... most involved/costliest part is usually the exhaust
    system. But I see no reason to have a commercial stove in a residence,
    unless it's strictly for show/snob appeal... I didn't keep mine very
    long (less than a year), they're too bare bones for home cooking... and
    how many 40 qt pots did you say you owned. No one needs 22,000 BTUs
    for an 8 qt pot. My ordinary GE gas stove's 12,000 BTU burner brings
    10 qts of water to a ferocious rolling boil in 8 minutes, I really
    don't want to cook any faster than I can drink dago red.

    Sheldon

  8. "Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    censored Head (--) said:


    For sake of discussion (since it is unlikely that any trained


    inspector

    Quoted message said:

    would ever contravene such a specific code requirement and allow a
    commercial unit in a dwelling unless it had been modifed to meet the
    residential appliance standard such that it then is no longer a


    "real"

    Quoted message said:

    commercial unit).

    Why should anyone believe you, you don't even have a name (okay, [censored]
    Head), let alone a diploma, not even a GED... you are a friggin' idiot,
    and obviously
    mentally ill.


    Well, if they didn't know for sure what to believe, they probably would
    check the IBC to see if it was accurate -- instead of attacking the
    messenger and showing the weakness of their position. Others probably have
    done just that and found it to be taken directly from the code.

    OK - Here's my credentials - where's yours (personal attacks over substance
    does not count)?
    Licensed PE for 30 years- MN & NY: ME, EE; ANSI, UL and OSHA member and
    technical consultant; former CSP; 30KW boiler license; and ten years as a
    200,000 sq ft facility (w/commercial kitchens) chief/engineer of record. And
    I even had time to pass the 12 week course in the new code building
    inspection last spring.

    The information is taken directly from the International Building Code,
    which has replaced all three former building codes in the US. It's adoption
    may be augmented but not reduced. (You as an expert in codes undoubtedly
    know the legal reasons why the new code cannot be reduced by any government
    body that adopts it - and at this time, I believe nearly all states have
    adopted the same language for all municipalities)

    Quoted message said:

    drooling Sheldon

  9. censored Head (--) said:


    Sheldon said:


    censored Head (--) said:


    For sake of discussion (since it is unlikely that any trained


    inspector

    Quoted message said:

    would ever contravene such a specific code requirement and allow


    a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    commercial unit in a dwelling unless it had been modifed to meet


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    residential appliance standard such that it then is no longer a


    "real"

    Quoted message said:

    commercial unit).

    Why should anyone believe you, you don't even have a name (okay,


    [censored]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Head), let alone a diploma, not even a GED... you are a friggin'


    idiot,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and obviously mentally ill.

    OK - Here's my credentials -

    Where, what... I see nothing substantive, just a lot of braggadocio...
    you sure you're not related to that other filthy low self-esteem WOP,
    constantly needing to assure others of his worth, which is actually
    zero. On the net anyone can claim to be whatever... and tomorrow you
    can claim to be Hillary Clinton's Proctologist... would explain "[censored]
    Head". The only thing we know for sure, since you make no denial, is
    that your name is in fact [censored] Head. Um, you remind me of the "Iron
    Dad" putz, for well over a year claimed to be a PA State Trooper. But
    he failed to be careful with info at his AOL Profile, where the moron
    actually supplied his work phone number... with that phone number and a
    little searching it was simple to find that town's website and
    ascertain that he actually was the town garbage collector... the liar
    departed shortly thereafter.

    Shove your credentials up your ass... on Usenet no one has anymore
    credentials than anyone else, you NEWBIE piece of [censored].

    Sheldon

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