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Compulsory helmets again!

Started by Richard Burton · · Last activity · 196 posts · 9,142 views

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UK and Europe
Published
7 November 2003
Last activity
19 November 2003
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Richard Burton
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  1. JohnB said:

    Last night my daughter came home from cubs saying she had to take four vegetables next week.

    What's going on?

    They are going to compare the effectiveness of different vegetables for powering web servers:
    totl.netSpud

    Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.uk
    ===========================================================

  2. marc must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:
    JohnB said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Who'd vote for turning kids into vegetables?

    Most Cub leaders after a pack night!

    Last night my daughter came home from cubs saying she had to take four vegetables next week.

    What's going on?

    Errr This is one of those tests they throw at you during training sessions isn't it?


    Batteries.
    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  3. Ian said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Last night my daughter came home from cubs saying she had to take four vegetables next week.

    What's going on?

    Errr This is one of those tests they throw at you during training sessions isn't it?


    Batteries.

    Takes too much equipment if every cub dose sit, takes too long if you do it one by one, and then you
    would also need another activity to keep the other busy, but thanks, it's an idea for a science base
    at a District event

    --
    Marc. Please note the above address is a spam trap, use marcc to reply Printing for clubs of all
    types jaceeprint.demon.co.ukjaceeprint.demon.co.uk Stickers, banners & clothing, for clubs,teams, magazines
    and dealers.

  4. marc must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:
    Ian said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Last night my daughter came home from cubs saying she had to take four vegetables next week.
    >
    > What's going on?

    Errr This is one of those tests they throw at you during training sessions isn't it?


    Batteries.

    Takes too much equipment if every cub dose sit, takes too long if you do it one by one, and then
    you would also need another activity to keep the other busy, but thanks, it's an idea for a
    science base at a District event


    If there are a lot of them, and they each take 4 veg, connect them in series and use them to torture
    a Boys Brigade member, could be a good exercise in field interrogation techniques.

    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  5. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Ian
    Tony W must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:


    "PK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    At the risk of getting flamed, I always recommend the use of helmets, but still think it should
    be down to choice above the age of 16, I am all for compulsory helmet use for the under 16's.

    Seems ...reasonable



    Quoted message said:

    What is wrong with parental choice & responsibility?



    They aren't all responsible.
    -

    Do you have in mind a way in which an MHL is likely to benefit the children of feckless parents?

    best wishes
    james

  6. Dave said:

    "Richard Burton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Some misguided MPs are being led by the nose by BHIT, which is back to its old tricks of making
    ridiculous claims about the efficacy of helmets and


    the

    Quoted message said:

    numbers of children who would be saved by wearing one. The MPs have


    signed

    Quoted message said:

    an Early Day Motion (text below) which has been signed, at the latest


    count,

    Quoted message said:

    by 54 of them, including Glenda Jackson, who I thought knew better.

    <snip>

    Has anyone stopped to think of what would actually happen if this became "Da Law" ?..... I can't
    help thinking that it would probably be policed about as well as the "not riding on the pavement"
    law and the "using lights at night" law. Remember, we are all cyclists so don't really matter,
    therefore our precious police time shouldn't be wasted by reinforcing any law that *might* be
    beneficial to cyclists... (no offence intended to law enforcement there, merely politicians and
    they can *all* go fcuk 'emselves ;-). I reckon we should let 'em pass the law and be damned. It
    won't be enforced anyway so if you've got a particular stance with regards to this you can carry
    on going helmetless anyway.....(just means you'll be a criminal in the eyes of the law and join
    all those others guilty of victimless crimes that the Govnt. seem intent on filling our jails
    with)...

    But if you're not wearing a helmet the accident will automatically be your fault, since you could
    have saved yourself from being crushed under the wheels of a forty ton artic by wearing a plastic
    tinfoil beenie. Yes, I know that it wouldn't be enforced except when some bored and truculent bobby
    wanted to make an officious nuisance of himself, but it would still be a bad idea.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simon

    For office use only. Please do not write or type below this line.

  7. Ian said:

    At the risk of getting flamed, I always recommend the use of helmets, but still think it should be
    down to choice above the age of 16, I am all for compulsory helmet use for the under 16's.

    Not a flame, but why? What good do you think it would do?

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simon

    For office use only. Please do not write or type below this line.

  8. pig pog said:
    Richard Burton said:

    ...an Early Day Motion (text below) "That this House notes that every year in the UK
    approximately 28,000 children under the age of 16 years receive a serious head injury" The
    28,000 figure is false. This is the figure for head injuries from ALL causes not from Cycling.
    The figure recorded from cycling is 1,200.

    Do you have sources for either of those figures? There has been some discussion of this on Urban
    Cyclist UK and the same claim (that 28000 is a figure for all serious head injuries) but it wasn't
    attributed either. No one has managed to find a good source for the actual figure for total child
    cycling releated serious head injuries although since legislation would be likely to be restricted
    to on-road cycling it is only fair to compare with the stats for on-road injuries (which seem to
    have the added attraction of existing)

    Could you tell us what they are and where to find them?

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simon

    For office use only. Please do not write or type below this line.

  9. Simon Brooke must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:
    Ian said:

    At the risk of getting flamed, I always recommend the use of helmets, but still think it should
    be down to choice above the age of 16, I am all for compulsory helmet use for the under 16's.

    Not a flame, but why? What good do you think it would do?


    I think it would save some injuries.
    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  10. Ian said:

    Tony W must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:


    "PK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    > At the risk of getting flamed, I always recommend the use of helmets, but still think it
    > should be down to choice above the age of 16, I am all for compulsory helmet use for the under
    > 16's.

    Seems a very reasonable position to me.

    Seems a dangerous extension of the nanny state to me. Something the H&S Nazis are continuously
    trying to do.

    What is wrong with parental choice & responsibility?


    They aren't all responsible.

    What counts as 'responible' in this instance? persuading kids that they're 'safe' because
    you've given them the plastic equivalent or a tinfoil beenie, or advising them to take care
    because you haven't?

    'Nanny state' to me is just rhetoric; many people use it without really thinking about what they're
    saying. But in a case like compulsory cycle helmets where the benfits are so dubious and equivocal,
    and the disbenefits are so clear, there seems to me the strongest of reasons _not_ to take this
    action - and those reasons have nothing to do with whether the state should intervene in areas with
    established safety benefit.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simon

    For office use only. Please do not write or type below this line.

  11. Tony W said:

    "Ian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    What is wrong with parental choice & responsibility?

    Quoted message said:

    They aren't all responsible.

    Not my problem. Darwinism might help improve the gene pool.

    T

    Ah, so you agree that not wearing a helmet is danerous? (;-)

    pk

  12. Simon Brooke must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:


    What counts as 'responible' in this instance?

    It is not a case of "this instance", some parents are not responsible people full stop.

    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  13. PK said:

    Ah, so you agree that not wearing a helmet is danerous? (;-)

    I'm sitting here in front of my Mac and *not* wearing a helmet. It's not dangerous at all.

    Damn, the PC in the corner has just crashed ;-)

    John B

  14. JohnB must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:
    PK said:

    Ah, so you agree that not wearing a helmet is danerous? (;-)

    I'm sitting here in front of my Mac and *not* wearing a helmet. It's not dangerous at all.

    Damn, the PC in the corner has just crashed ;-)

    John B


    Was it wearing a helmet?

    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  15. JohnB said:


    Damn, the PC in the corner has just crashed ;-)

    Dear Abbey

    I keep crashing my PC and its making my head hurt. Should I be wearing a helmet?

    Yours

    Bill

  16. Ambrose Nankivell said:

    In "]news:[email hidden], Richard Burton
    <[email hidden]> typed:

    Quoted message said:

    Some misguided MPs are being led by the nose by BHIT, which is back to its old tricks of making
    ridiculous claims about the efficacy of helmets and the numbers of children who would be saved by
    wearing one. The MPs have signed an Early Day Motion (text below) which has been signed, at the
    latest count, by 54 of them, including Glenda Jackson, who I thought knew better.

    To find out if your MP's signed it, go to the following page

    edm.ais.co.ukref=1783

    (it took me a fair bit of teomaing to find it, so I thought I'd share that.)

    Mine hasn't signed it - is there any point writing encouraging him to oppose it? The main page
    describes EDM's as "not generally expected to be debated", but on the other hand it says "Members
    may also table amendments to existing motions".

  17. Henry Braun <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Richard Burton said:

    Some misguided MPs are being led by the nose by BHIT, which is back to its old tricks of making
    ridiculous claims about the efficacy of helmets and the numbers of children who would be saved
    by wearing one. The MPs have signed an Early Day Motion (text below) which has been signed, at
    the latest count, by 54 of them, including Glenda Jackson, who I thought knew better.

    Attached is a copy of a letter from a CTC member to his MP re the EDM on helmets which might be
    useful as a template if BCC members want to respond similarly. The general thought is that this
    EDM will fail due to lack of time, but might be being used as a marker for inclusion in a road
    safety bill expected next year.

    As I understand it Early Day Motions can't really "fail" or succeed: they are merely a way for MPs
    to register their political opinions and draw attention to issues that concern them. They don't
    get any parliamentary time at all, unlike the more significant Private Members' Bills (which do
    usually fail for lack of time), and it would take many more than the 50-odd signatures that this
    EDM has gathered to push the government into proposing a new law. As it stands we know that about
    1 MP in 13 would be minded before the debate to vote for compulsion---not a great threat.

    It's perhaps not entirely a bad thing, wherever you stand on helmets, if 54 MPs are sufficiently
    engaged with the matter to put their names to one side of the debate; they are certainly opening
    an invitation for people to write to them on the issue.

    www.faxyourmp.co.uk

    A good site for anyone wanting to sent a fax to their M.P. on this or any other matter. Iain

  18. pig pog must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:
    Ian said:

    Tony W must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:


    "PK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bofptk$jp8$1-
    @hercules.btinternet.comnews:[email hidden]...

    >> At the risk of getting flamed, I always recommend the use of helmets, but still think it
    >> should be down to choice above the age of 16, I am all for compulsory helmet use for the under
    >> 16's.
    >
    > Seems ...reasonable
    What is wrong with parental choice & responsibility?


    They aren't all responsible. -

    Do you have in mind a way in which an MHL is likely to benefit the children of feckless parents?

    best wishes james

    --
    best wishes james

    best wishes james

    Quoted message said:

    --------------------------<


    Posted via cyclingforums.com cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.com


    Yes.

    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  19. Simon Brooke said:

    pig pog <[email hidden]> writes:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ...an Early Day Motion (text below) "That this House notes that every year in the UK
    approximately 28,000 children under the age of 16 years receive a serious head injury" The
    28,000 figure is false. This is the figure for head injuries from ALL causes not from
    Cycling. The figure recorded from cycling is


    1,200.

    Do you have sources for either of those figures? There has been some discussion of this on Urban
    Cyclist UK and the same claim (that 28000 is a figure for all serious head injuries) but it
    wasn't attributed either. No one has managed to find a good source for the actual figure for
    total child cycling releated serious head injuries although since legislation would be likely to
    be restricted to on-road cycling it is only fair to compare with the stats for on-road injuries
    (which seem to have the added attraction of existing)

    Quoted message said:

    Could you tell us what they are and where to find them?

    I don't know about these figures but the government tell us that in
    2002: 22 child pedal cyclists were killed; 594 killed or seriously injured and a figure of 4,809 for
    'all severities' so I don't see how 28,000 kids could have got serious head injuries!

    dft.gov.ukdft transstats 506510.xls

    Nik

  20. Ian said:

    Simon Brooke must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:
    Ian said:

    At the risk of getting flamed, I always recommend the use of helmets, but still think it should
    be down to choice above the age of 16, I am all for compulsory helmet use for the under 16's.

    Not a flame, but why? What good do you think it would do?


    I think it would save some injuries.

    Well, it might. Wrapping the kids in cotton wool and hanging them on the wall might, too. When I was
    a kid we rode far further on our bikes than kids do now, and I can't recall anyone who suffered
    _any_ serious injury in a push-bike accident. None of us wore helmets, or cycling gloves.

    The only injury I've *ever* suffered in a push-bike accident (in over forty years of cycling) was a
    badly gashed thumb that needed stitching[1], and a helmet would not have made a happence worth of
    difference to that. So we're not talking, here, of mitigating a menace which is decimating the cream
    of the nation's youth. We're talking about a measure which might - might - save a couple of deaths,
    and ten times that number of injuries a year, but would be highly likely to greatly reduce the
    number of people cycling (as, for example, such legislation has been shown to have done in
    Australia) thus increasing the obesity of children and thus the number of early deaths from diabetes
    and heart disease.

    In other words, the net saving of life is likely to be nil and may well be negative, and the impact
    on general health is certain to be negative. There seems to me _every_ reason to oppose this
    legislation.

    [1] Humpback bridge followed by a sharp right hand bend; my wheels didn't touch the ground in time
    to take the bend.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simon

    There are no messages. The above is just a random stream of bytes. Any opinion or meaning
    you find in it is your own creation.

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