Cone bearings

shazzbat said:

I recently acquired a shimano mountain bike. I've replaced the bottom
bracket and it's bearings and now turned my attention to the rear wheel
which had a lot of play in it. It's a 26" wheel and has a set of 6 sprockets
attached. Removing the spindle, I found it to be deeply scored and the cone
on the sprocket side badly mangled. Getting a new spindle and cones isn't a
problem, but it seems to me there's probably something missing from the
set-up, as there's a big gap between the cone and the housing, so even when
I refit the spindle, cone and bearing balls, it's not going to take up the
play. When I took it apart, the balls were around the outside with enough
room for the cone to pass right through. Is there somewhere I could check
out a diagram online to see what's missing?

And how is the group of sprockets removed? Not that I need to right now, but
I'd like to know for future reference.

Most probably a freewheel hub, although possibly a cassette system.
Either would have a cracked or eroded right side dust cap if it was
ridden much with a bearing problem.

Freewheels remove with a tool which holds the inner body and are
specific to the freewheel model. Cassettes of that era disassemble by
unscrewing the small gear. Either a more thorough description or a
consultation with a competent LBS would be helpful.

Do clean and inspect the cup inside the hub before going much farther.
If it was ridden loose for a while you may have damage there, the
bearing diameter being much larger after the cup erodes or cracks. I
couldn't tell from your description if it was a bearing cup problem or a
missing dust seal.

traditional threaded hubs look like this:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/MAILLARD.JPG
The freewheel removes completely

cassettes something like this:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/CANEWHUB.JPG
or
http://bernd.sluka.de/Fahrrad/Shimano/TM/FH-RM40-7QR_1995.gif

the ratchet assembly is part of the hub, the sprockets slide off.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

shazzbat said:

I recently acquired a shimano mountain bike. I've replaced the bottom
bracket and it's bearings and now turned my attention to the rear wheel
which had a lot of play in it. It's a 26" wheel and has a set of 6
sprockets attached. Removing the spindle, I found it to be deeply scored
and the cone on the sprocket side badly mangled. Getting a new spindle
and cones isn't a problem, but it seems to me there's probably something
missing from the set-up, as there's a big gap between the cone and the
housing, so even when I refit the spindle, cone and bearing balls, it's
not going to take up the play. When I took it apart, the balls were
around the outside with enough room for the cone to pass right through.
Is there somewhere I could check out a diagram online to see what's
missing?

And how is the group of sprockets removed? Not that I need to right now,
but I'd like to know for future reference.

Most probably a freewheel hub, although possibly a cassette system. Either
would have a cracked or eroded right side dust cap if it was ridden much
with a bearing problem.

Freewheels remove with a tool which holds the inner body and are specific
to the freewheel model. Cassettes of that era disassemble by unscrewing
the small gear. Either a more thorough description or a consultation with
a competent LBS would be helpful.

Do clean and inspect the cup inside the hub before going much farther. If
it was ridden loose for a while you may have damage there, the bearing
diameter being much larger after the cup erodes or cracks. I couldn't tell
from your description if it was a bearing cup problem or a missing dust
seal.

Many thanks for that. I think there may be both a cup problem and a missing
dust seal. Mine is more like the one here -
http://bernd.sluka.de/Fahrrad/Shimano/TM/FH-MJ10-6NT_1994.gif

But even so there are a couple of differences, ie I appear to have no
component 7, which my poor German suggests is a dust cap. Also I seem to
have two of component 10, rather than one each of 8 and 10.

I'll go out and take a couple of pics in the morning, and see what can be
sorted out.

Thanks again
Steve

"shazzbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

shazzbat said:

I recently acquired a shimano mountain bike. I've replaced the bottom
bracket and it's bearings and now turned my attention to the rear wheel
which had a lot of play in it. It's a 26" wheel and has a set of 6
sprockets attached. Removing the spindle, I found it to be deeply scored
and the cone on the sprocket side badly mangled. Getting a new spindle
and cones isn't a problem, but it seems to me there's probably something
missing from the set-up, as there's a big gap between the cone and the
housing, so even when I refit the spindle, cone and bearing balls, it's
not going to take up the play. When I took it apart, the balls were
around the outside with enough room for the cone to pass right through.
Is there somewhere I could check out a diagram online to see what's
missing?

And how is the group of sprockets removed? Not that I need to right now,
but I'd like to know for future reference.

Most probably a freewheel hub, although possibly a cassette system.
Either would have a cracked or eroded right side dust cap if it was
ridden much with a bearing problem.

Freewheels remove with a tool which holds the inner body and are specific
to the freewheel model. Cassettes of that era disassemble by unscrewing
the small gear. Either a more thorough description or a consultation with
a competent LBS would be helpful.

Do clean and inspect the cup inside the hub before going much farther. If
it was ridden loose for a while you may have damage there, the bearing
diameter being much larger after the cup erodes or cracks. I couldn't
tell from your description if it was a bearing cup problem or a missing
dust seal.

Many thanks for that. I think there may be both a cup problem and a
missing dust seal. Mine is more like the one here -
http://bernd.sluka.de/Fahrrad/Shimano/TM/FH-MJ10-6NT_1994.gif

Right, I've put some pics here -

http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/shazzbat3/bike%20stuff/

I'm now not convinced that the cup for the bearings is there, there's
certainly far too much room for the balls and the cone.

Steve

shazzbat said:

http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/shazzbat3/bike%20stuff/

I'm now not convinced that the cup for the bearings is there, there's
certainly far too much room for the balls and the cone.

Remove the freewheel (Shimano) and all will become clear

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

shazzbat wrote:
> I recently acquired a shimano mountain bike. I've replaced the bottom
> bracket and it's bearings and now turned my attention to the rear wheel
> which had a lot of play in it. It's a 26" wheel and has a set of 6
> sprockets attached. Removing the spindle, I found it to be deeply scored
> and the cone on the sprocket side badly mangled. Getting a new spindle
> and cones isn't a problem, but it seems to me there's probably something
> missing from the set-up, as there's a big gap between the cone and the
> housing, so even when I refit the spindle, cone and bearing balls, it's
> not going to take up the play. When I took it apart, the balls were
> around the outside with enough room for the cone to pass right through.
> Is there somewhere I could check out a diagram online to see what's
> missing?
> And how is the group of sprockets removed? Not that I need to right now,
> but I'd like to know for future reference.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Most probably a freewheel hub, although possibly a cassette system.
Either would have a cracked or eroded right side dust cap if it was
ridden much with a bearing problem.
Freewheels remove with a tool which holds the inner body and are specific
to the freewheel model. Cassettes of that era disassemble by unscrewing
the small gear. Either a more thorough description or a consultation with
a competent LBS would be helpful.
Do clean and inspect the cup inside the hub before going much farther. If
it was ridden loose for a while you may have damage there, the bearing
diameter being much larger after the cup erodes or cracks. I couldn't
tell from your description if it was a bearing cup problem or a missing
dust seal.

Quoted message said:

"shazzbat" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Many thanks for that. I think there may be both a cup problem and a
missing dust seal. Mine is more like the one here -
http://bernd.sluka.de/Fahrrad/Shimano/TM/FH-MJ10-6NT_1994.gif

shazzbat said:

Right, I've put some pics here -
http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/shazzbat3/bike%20stuff/
I'm now not convinced that the cup for the bearings is there, there's
certainly far too much room for the balls and the cone.

Yes, that's a UG freewheel. The removal tools is cheap and ubiquitous
but get a service manual! (online or dead trees, whatever). We can't see
any detail on the cones (you should look closely) and you can't see the
right side cup yet.

There's no indication yet that anything is awry.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> shazzbat wrote:
>> I recently acquired a shimano mountain bike. I've replaced the bottom
>> bracket and it's bearings and now turned my attention to the rear
>> wheel which had a lot of play in it. It's a 26" wheel and has a set of
>> 6 sprockets attached. Removing the spindle, I found it to be deeply
>> scored and the cone on the sprocket side badly mangled. Getting a new
>> spindle and cones isn't a problem, but it seems to me there's probably
>> something missing from the set-up, as there's a big gap between the
>> cone and the housing, so even when I refit the spindle, cone and
>> bearing balls, it's not going to take up the play. When I took it
>> apart, the balls were around the outside with enough room for the cone
>> to pass right through. Is there somewhere I could check out a diagram
>> online to see what's missing?
>> And how is the group of sprockets removed? Not that I need to right
>> now, but I'd like to know for future reference.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote
> Most probably a freewheel hub, although possibly a cassette system.
> Either would have a cracked or eroded right side dust cap if it was
> ridden much with a bearing problem.
> Freewheels remove with a tool which holds the inner body and are
> specific to the freewheel model. Cassettes of that era disassemble by
> unscrewing the small gear. Either a more thorough description or a
> consultation with a competent LBS would be helpful.
> Do clean and inspect the cup inside the hub before going much farther.
> If it was ridden loose for a while you may have damage there, the
> bearing diameter being much larger after the cup erodes or cracks. I
> couldn't tell from your description if it was a bearing cup problem or
> a missing dust seal.

Quoted message said:

"shazzbat" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Many thanks for that. I think there may be both a cup problem and a
missing dust seal. Mine is more like the one here -
http://bernd.sluka.de/Fahrrad/Shimano/TM/FH-MJ10-6NT_1994.gif

shazzbat said:

Right, I've put some pics here -
http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/shazzbat3/bike%20stuff/
I'm now not convinced that the cup for the bearings is there, there's
certainly far too much room for the balls and the cone.

Yes, that's a UG freewheel. The removal tools is cheap and ubiquitous but
get a service manual! (online or dead trees, whatever). We can't see any
detail on the cones (you should look closely) and you can't see the right
side cup yet.

There's no indication yet that anything is awry.

Something is definitely wrong. Today I put 9 balls in, poking them through
the freewheel with a finger, and sticking them in place with grease. Then I
reversed the cone on the spindle to put it in blunt end first, and it sits
inside the ring of balls. I'm going to the bike shop tomorrow to get the
spindle and cones, so I'll take the wheel with me to see what they say.

Could it be relevant that whereas the freewheel is marked "shimano
Singapore", but on the other side the outer surface of the cup is marked
"grimeca Italy"?

And could it be the case that the freewheel side needs larger balls than the
other side?

Steve

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> shazzbat wrote:
>>> I recently acquired a shimano mountain bike. I've replaced the bottom
>>> bracket and it's bearings and now turned my attention to the rear
>>> wheel which had a lot of play in it. It's a 26" wheel and has a set of
>>> 6 sprockets attached. Removing the spindle, I found it to be deeply
>>> scored and the cone on the sprocket side badly mangled. Getting a new
>>> spindle and cones isn't a problem, but it seems to me there's probably
>>> something missing from the set-up, as there's a big gap between the
>>> cone and the housing, so even when I refit the spindle, cone and
>>> bearing balls, it's not going to take up the play. When I took it
>>> apart, the balls were around the outside with enough room for the cone
>>> to pass right through. Is there somewhere I could check out a diagram
>>> online to see what's missing?
>>> And how is the group of sprockets removed? Not that I need to right
>>> now, but I'd like to know for future reference.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> "A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote
>> Most probably a freewheel hub, although possibly a cassette system.
>> Either would have a cracked or eroded right side dust cap if it was
>> ridden much with a bearing problem.
>> Freewheels remove with a tool which holds the inner body and are
>> specific to the freewheel model. Cassettes of that era disassemble by
>> unscrewing the small gear. Either a more thorough description or a
>> consultation with a competent LBS would be helpful.
>> Do clean and inspect the cup inside the hub before going much farther.
>> If it was ridden loose for a while you may have damage there, the
>> bearing diameter being much larger after the cup erodes or cracks. I
>> couldn't tell from your description if it was a bearing cup problem or
>> a missing dust seal.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"shazzbat" <[email hidden]> wrote
> Many thanks for that. I think there may be both a cup problem and a
> missing dust seal. Mine is more like the one here -
> http://bernd.sluka.de/Fahrrad/Shimano/TM/FH-MJ10-6NT_1994.gif

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

shazzbat said:

Right, I've put some pics here -
http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/shazzbat3/bike%20stuff/
I'm now not convinced that the cup for the bearings is there, there's
certainly far too much room for the balls and the cone.

Quoted message said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Yes, that's a UG freewheel. The removal tools is cheap and ubiquitous but
get a service manual! (online or dead trees, whatever). We can't see any
detail on the cones (you should look closely) and you can't see the right
side cup yet.
There's no indication yet that anything is awry.

shazzbat said:

Something is definitely wrong. Today I put 9 balls in, poking them through
the freewheel with a finger, and sticking them in place with grease. Then I
reversed the cone on the spindle to put it in blunt end first, and it sits
inside the ring of balls. I'm going to the bike shop tomorrow to get the
spindle and cones, so I'll take the wheel with me to see what they say.
Could it be relevant that whereas the freewheel is marked "shimano
Singapore", but on the other side the outer surface of the cup is marked
"grimeca Italy"?
And could it be the case that the freewheel side needs larger balls than the
other side?

You can't adequately clean the right side cup, nor inspect it, without
getting the freewheel out of the way. Do that first.

Whether your freewheel was made in Singapore or made in Osaka or made in
Milano is irrelevant. Remove it from the hub before you proceed.

Grimeca makes moped brakes.
??
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **