I looked at the Mean Maximal NP graph and observed 274 watts for a 60min period that had a ride date attached to it. When, I went to the specific ride that was referenced and scrolled down to the hard number stats for 60min the watts were 271.
The 271 is AP. Select it to highlight it (the little box to the far left of that row in the summary stats), then use your mouse to select the range on the graph itself. Then, you'll get the NP for that segment. I realize it sounds complicated and unnecessary, but that's how you have to do it in the current version of CP. Now, you may still not get exactly 274. To find the 274, you would have to export the workout file to Excel and do a rolling 60min NP calculation and find the largest value. I know, it's a pain but that's the only option that I know of.
The 271 is AP. Select it to highlight it (the little box to the far left of that row in the summary stats), then use your mouse to select the range on the graph itself. Then, you'll get the NP for that segment. I realize it sounds complicated and unnecessary, but that's how you have to do it in the current version of CP.
Actually, the AP for the segment was 220w and the NP was 271w - this data is not from the graph, but from the Summary Stats at the bottom of the page where you can view Kj, Heart Rate data, etc. for different time periods. When I get hpome tonight I can post more detailed info.
Actually, the AP for the segment was 220w and the NP was 271w - this data is not from the graph, but from the Summary Stats at the bottom of the page where you can view Kj, Heart Rate data, etc. for different time periods. When I get hpome tonight I can post more detailed info.
Select the range titled Max 60 minute power (or something similar) by clicking on it, and the summary stats you mention will change to reflect just what is within that 60-minute range. If you don't have any particular range selected, then the summary stats will represent the entire ride.
Actually, the AP for the segment was 220w and the NP was 271w - this data is not from the graph, but from the Summary Stats at the bottom of the page where you can view Kj, Heart Rate data, etc. for different time periods. When I get home tonight I can post more detailed info.
Then, that is for the entire ride duration. Above that section is a set of ranges (from 5sec to 60min). In all likelihood, your max 60min NP was higher than 271w. But, your max 60min NP is not necessarily on the ride of your max NP for the entire duration of the ride. I know this gets confusing, but the place to start is with the Mean Maximal NP chart. I think that's the chart that showed 274w you mentioned. That ride has your max 60min NP, but as discussed above it's not all that easy to find that precise 60 min ride segment without exporting the workout file to Excel and calculating a rolling 60min NP for the entire ride. The best way to get in the ballpark without exporting the file is the procedure I suggested.
This might explain things best: CyclingPeaks actually started out as just an Excel macro, that would search through a .csv file to find your best ("peak"😉 5 s, etc., power. That aspect was retained as the macro grew into a program in its own right, with things like normalized power gradually brought into the mix. To date, however, the program doesn't search for your peak normalized power at any duration when analyzing/displaying individual files, only when creating a summary mean maximal normalized power chart on your Home Page. So, when you call up the file from the data on which your peak 60 min normalized power actually occurred, there's no direct way of finding it using CyclingPeaks...you have to export the data to e.g., Excel and do the calculations manually, as described by RapDaddyo.
Again, another feature that hopefully will eventually be added...
Select the range titled Max 60 minute power (or something similar) by clicking on it, and the summary stats you mention will change to reflect just what is within that 60-minute range. If you don't have any particular range selected, then the summary stats will represent the entire ride.
Actually, this isn't exactly correct. Selecting the range by clicking the box to the far left of the Peak 60min row (or any other row) will highlight the range in black but will not change the summary stats (including NP). You have to then select the range with your mouse (dark blue color), after which the summary stats reflect the selected range.
Actually, this isn't exactly correct. Selecting the range by clicking the box to the far left of the Peak 60min row (or any other row) will highlight the range in black but will not change the summary stats (including NP). You have to then select the range with your mouse (dark blue color), after which the summary stats reflect the selected range.
Nahhh.... If you left-click on the white (maybe gray-ish), rectangular box that says "Peak 60min" in it, then the range will be selected and stats displayed. Clicking the far left column (to get the eye) does show the range, but that's not what I'm saying.
Nahhh.... If you left-click on the white (maybe gray-ish), rectangular box that says "Peak 60min" in it, then the range will be selected and stats displayed. Clicking the far left column (to get the eye) does show the range, but that's not what I'm saying.
Correct. I forgot about the feature you're talking about. I usually just use the Peak xx range to direct my attention to a range of interest. It is rare that I do any further analysis of the precise range, so I usually expand or shrink the selected range somewhat. For example, it's entirely possible that the Peak 60min segment has a few minutes of very low power at one end or the other, which is not the part of the ride I'm interested in. So, I use the box to the far left to zero in on a range and then select what I am specifically interested in with the mouse. I haven't used the feature you're talking about in so long that I forgot it existed. Anyway, neither procedure is going to get you to the Peak 60min NP. There is no automatic feature to find it. For that, you need to do more analysis.
Anyway, neither procedure is going to get you to the Peak 60min NP. There is no automatic feature to find it. For that, you need to do more analysis.
When you select the Peak 60min range, and the stats show up in the summary below, the NP for that range appears there. While it's possible that the Peak 60min range does not also possess the highest 60min NP for the workout, I believe the 60min Peak AP and 60min Peak NP ranges will usually coincide.
When you select the Peak 60min range, and the stats show up in the summary below, the NP for that range appears there. While it's possible that the Peak 60min range does not also possess the highest 60min NP for the workout, I believe the 60min Peak AP and 60min Peak NP ranges will usually coincide.
Yes, you get the NP stat, but it's not true that the peak 60min AP is the same range as the peak 60min NP. I have differences up to 5w in my workout files as recently as the last 28 days.
Lindsay, my main purpose in pointing out to the OP that FT is not part of the NP calculation is that NP can indeed be used for his stated purpose. If FT were part of the calculation of NP, it would be Catch-22: "NP will help you estimate your FT, but only if you know your FT." Most of our rides are variable power rides and AP would understate max sustainable CP power. But, NP brilliantly solves that problem and converts a VP effort to a CP equivalent. NP is so cool!
My mistake Paul, I thought the algorithm needed a figure for threshold; that's actually just helped answer another problem I thought I had (but now I don't)!🙂
My mistake Paul, I thought the algorithm needed a figure for threshold; that's actually just helped answer another problem I thought I had (but now I don't)!🙂
L.
As an aside, Lindsay, I can't even estimate how long it took me to understand what's going on with NP. I was hung up for what seems like forever on the issue of power relative to FT. I was somehow trying to make FT into some sort of line of demarcation for the weighting of power -- that power levels >FT were weighted in a different way vs. power levels <FT. I realize now that I went down this path because of the blood lactate/power chart, which appears to be two distinct relationships: relatively linear below FT and exponential above FT. And, it didn't help that IF and TSS raw use FT in the algorithms. It was only after I built a spreadsheet to replicate the computation algorithms of NP, IF and TSS against actual CP files that I was able to see what's going on. As I learned, NP has nothing to do with FT, but FT has everything to do with NP, if that makes any sense. FT's role in NP is not in the computation algorithm but in one's ability to produce a given NP. And, of course, FT is a function of duration. The opportunities to exploit these relationships is huge and we have not even scratched the surface. And, do you know what I find most interesting? UCI rules are absolutely silent on the issue of data available to the cyclist. The only limitations at the moment are our imaginations. Cheers.
When you select the Peak 60min range, and the stats show up in the summary below, the NP for that range appears there. While it's possible that the Peak 60min range does not also possess the highest 60min NP for the workout, I believe the 60min Peak AP and 60min Peak NP ranges will usually coincide.
I now recall one of the reasons that I do the 2-step selection method that I use. I'm not ready to state this categorically, but I think the Peak xx Min ranges in the summary stats do not have to be continuous ranges. I first noticed this on my weekend rides, because my ride club has a rest/regroup stop about midway on the ride. So, if the peak 10 minute range happens to be, say, 5 minutes before the stop and 5 minutes after the stop, I think CP will count this as the Peak 10 Min range. That's misleading.
I now recall one of the reasons that I do the 2-step selection method that I use. I'm not ready to state this categorically, but I think the Peak xx Min ranges in the summary stats do not have to be continuous ranges. I first noticed this on my weekend rides, because my ride club has a rest/regroup stop about midway on the ride. So, if the peak 10 minute range happens to be, say, 5 minutes before the stop and 5 minutes after the stop, I think CP will count this as the Peak 10 Min range. That's misleading.
I don't think I'd be worried about my Peak Power figures on a club ride with regroups, so that wouldn't bother me. :p
I don't think I'd be worried about my Peak Power figures on a club ride with regroups, so that wouldn't bother me. :p
Maybe not, but it's a little computational idiosyncrasy that one should be aware of when looking at charts such as mean maximal NP over a period of time.
Maybe not, but it's a little computational idiosyncrasy that one should be aware of when looking at charts such as mean maximal NP over a period of time.
I suppose, but my implied point was that I wouldn't expect to be 'setting the curve' on that type of ride. I concede that it *could* happen, so your point is valid and accepted.
