converting shifters...

Sorry to be a pain, but I have a chance to grab the whole Ultegra gruppo for 54% off @ $900. Here's the link: jensonusa.comGP264B04 Shimano+Ultegra+Road+Group+Mono1.aspxOpen ↗

With that, is it worth the swap ?

Thanks again,
-Greg

IMO I dont think the upgrade to ultega is worth 900 for the sake of just upgrading from 105. To me this is a good deal for someone who is building a new bike.

I'd have to agree with Dave on this one. You won't notice a huge difference between the performance of the 105 versus the ultegra group.

However if you do decide to make the upgrade I would suggest calling and getting the part numbers for all of the pieces. That website has that build kit shown with a mix of Ultegra 6600 and Ultegra 6700 parts. This is a problem since it shows the newer 6700 levers and the older 6600 rear derailleur, and those parts are not compatible with one another (Shimano changed the rear derailleur pull ratio on their newer 10 speed stuff).

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by davereo [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

IMO I dont think the upgrade to ultega is worth 900 for the sake of just upgrading from 105. To me this is a good deal for someone who is building a new bike.

$900 is a bargain for anyone wanting to b a new group set!

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by ToffoIsMe [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

I'd have to agree with Dave on this one. You won't notice a huge difference between the performance of the 105 versus the ultegra group.

However if you do decide to make the upgrade I would suggest calling and getting the part numbers for all of the pieces. That website has that build kit shown with a mix of Ultegra 6600 and Ultegra 6700 parts. This is a problem since it shows the newer 6700 levers and the older 6600 rear derailleur, and those parts are not compatible with one another (Shimano changed the rear derailleur pull ratio on their newer 10 speed stuff).

This is an important point to clarify. I was going to swap out 6600 STI shifters for the 6700s on my wife's bike and a shop owner I trust suggested that it wouldn't be a wise choice. She has a mix of 5600 brakes and 6600 derailleurs. He mentioned the same issue of optimized pull for brakes and mechs.

However, if the components are all 6700 and you want to ride an Ultegra gruppo (now and in the future), then $900 for everything listed is potentially a "cheap" way of getting into Ultegra. I sold a new take-off 5600 gruppo for $400 last spring, so depending on the condition of your 105 components there is some resale value there if you don't have other plans for them. The Ksyrium Equipe wheelset should fetch a couple of hundred dollars if you don't need that. (Or save you a couple of hundred if you were needing a bomb proof basic wheelset.)

If you're just looking for an Ultegra upgrade and don't want the other items in the package, you could realistically pull it off for around $500 (plus the cost of a brake caliper to round out your upgrade and maybe a BB to work in with the sale of your takeoffs). Not likely you'll do better than $500 for a new, or take-off, 6700 gruppo in the near term. The caveat is that bike season is pretty quiet right now so you may have to wait until spring/summer to get a decent return on the items you want to sell to bring down your initial $900 investment.

Good luck!

I agree with all of you, and understand that Ultegra isn't much of a noticable performance upgrade from 105. However, my main objective was to get rid of those 'shifters on the leash' with the annoying cables. I'm not looking to get any step-up in performance. Now, I've looked at getting just the Ultegra shifters (w/ inner cables) and they go for around $360 per pair. I am also looking to upgrade my wheels as well, so this gruppo would be kind of like killing 2 birds with one stone (not that the K mavics are anything special).

Although I was looking into getting some carbon Reynolds Attacks for around $690 ($800 discount), but living in pothole Massachusetts, I'm afraid of owning full carbon wheels.

Thanks,
-Greg

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by gman0482 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

I agree with all of you, and understand that Ultegra isn't much of a noticable performance upgrade from 105. However, my main objective was to get rid of those 'shifters on the leash' with the annoying cables. I'm not looking to get any step-up in performance. Now, I've looked at getting just the Ultegra shifters (w/ inner cables) and they go for around $360 per pair. I am also looking to upgrade my wheels as well, so this gruppo would be kind of like killing 2 birds with one stone (not that the K mavics are anything special).

Although I was looking into getting some carbon Reynolds Attacks for around $690 ($800 discount), but living in pothole Massachusetts, I'm afraid of owning full carbon wheels.

Thanks,
-Greg

To answer the question, it's really 'plug and play'. Remove 5600, install 6700, attach to ders and brakes, go ride. kinda tough to find where the cable goes in(underneath the lever) but these work really well. IF you are just trying to get rid of the cables in the breeze, look at 5700 levers, same routing, less $.

Thank you Sir. Yea my main thing is just to get rid of those cables.

I've been talking to my LBS tech, and he said that if I switch to Ultegra, I should switch the brakes as there is a cable tension difference.

Also to be more clearer on my current group and to make sure everything is possible. I have the 2009 Felt Z45 which has : 105 SS short cage RD, Sora braze-on FD, and Tiagra STI 18-spd shifters. With all of that, what is the recommended swap to get rid of the outer cables. Do I really need a brake upgrade ?

Also, how good are the new 105 shifters with the inner cables ?

Thank you,
-Greg

As noted previously, I was investigating the same change for my wife's bike. I personally can't tell any operational difference in 5600 vs. 6600 STI levers, but finish and weight are different. Ultegra being slightly "nicer". I would expect that to be the same for the the "internal cable" version.

The story I got was that the return springs in the x700 level components are different than the previous versions. Functionally still the same, but the STI shifters are optimized to the new spring rates. Will work mixing and matching, but not Shimano's "A" level of performance. If you're a "nit" about perfection, then maybe best to match everything up for long term performance and to avoid headaches from being told a performance problem is being caused by mismatched components. If "B" level shifting/tweaking is OK, then probably go with just the newer levers. Peter's post sounds like it isn't a combo that he would advise against.

Thanks. That's one of my definite changes this winter, to get rid of those outer-cable-spitting tiagra shifters. I'm currently on the look-out for a deal on the Ultegra grouppo. So far I've found some 6-piece for around $675, and 8-piece for $800. But prob will do just shifter/brake combo. As long as my Sora FD is ok for Ultegra shifter.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by ToffoIsMe [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

I'd have to agree with Dave on this one. You won't notice a huge difference between the performance of the 105 versus the ultegra group.

However if you do decide to make the upgrade I would suggest calling and getting the part numbers for all of the pieces. That website has that build kit shown with a mix of Ultegra 6600 and Ultegra 6700 parts. This is a problem since it shows the newer 6700 levers and the older 6600 rear derailleur, and those parts are not compatible with one another (Shimano changed the rear derailleur pull ratio on their newer 10 speed stuff).

Not true. 6700 STI and 6600(and even 6500) ders are completely compatible. 7900 and 7800 are also cross compatible except for the FD. 7900 STI requires a 7900 FD.

Have you considered getting yourself a pair of Campy 11-speed shifters instead? Using either a hubbub connection or a J-Tek adapter, they can be made to match (within very close and more-than-acceptable tolerance) the cable pull of Shimano 10-spd shifters. If you're interested, here's a link to get you started:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

Thanks guys. I am currently looking at some group sets of 6 or 8 for a good deal. The tech at my LBS told me I should get brakes with the Ultegra shifters for better braking performance since there's a cable pull difference. Do you concur Peter ?

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by OldGoat [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Have you considered getting yourself a pair of Campy 11-speed shifters instead? Using either a hubbub connection or a J-Tek adapter, they can be made to match (within very close and more-than-acceptable tolerance) the cable pull of Shimano 10-spd shifters. If you're interested, here's a link to get you started:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

+1 ... (would anyone expect me to disagree with THAT recommendation?!?)

Neither Shimano derailleur will need to be changed ... how the rear derailleur cable is attached may-or-may-not need to be tweaked depending on which model rear derailleur is being used for a particular Shimano-compatible indexing.

[CENTER] [IMG]cyclingforums.com500Open ↗[/IMG]
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This difference is really minor. Get the levers w/o the brakes and see if the performance is to your liking. I'm thinking it will be.

Awesome info guys !! Thanks. The last thing I want to do is spend $$$ when I don't really need to. Did I mention the labor to install just a shifter/brake is $350 ??

Also, as I am shopping for the shifters, do the 10-spd Ultegra work with a 9-speed cassette ? I have 11-25.

The next thing is, making sure I do the job right by myself. [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

Ok so I think I just answered my own question, and the 10-spd shifter won't be good for a 9 spd setup.

Now, I have the 105 SS short cage RD. Could I just get a new 10-spd chain and cassette, and it would work with that RD ? So that way I get the Ultegra Shifters, chain and cassette, and should be all good ?

Thanks,
-Greg

Are you sure the shop wasn't quoting price installed, including hardware? If not, don't go anywhere near that shop again. I'm for supporting LBS, but $350 labor is rediculous given the amount of work involved. Maybe around $75-$100 for install and tune is more like it. You'll need a wrap/unwrap of bar tape and about 45-60 minutes to do the work ... a little more/less depending on experience.

Brake cable housings probably will work as they are, but shift cable housing will need to be cut to proper length. Not a bad idea to replace all while you have everything apart, but you can save time and a little expense by using existing cable stuff. I've found that using some old cable (brake/shift) run through new housing and a dremel cutting wheel makes a very nice clean cut through the inner and outer housing layers. Pull out old cable, very quick touch up of inner housing, add ferrule, and your're done.

You might try the old trick of rerouted cable attachment at deraillure to change pull ratio and limit screw adjustment for using 9sp cassette with 10s shifters sheldonbrown.comderailer adjustment.htmlOpen ↗ , but if your cassette/chain has many miles on it you're going to have to replace it at some point anyway. So why not start fresh with new cassette and chain (10s) at the beginning of the season. If your 105 der is 5500+ you should be good to go .... "A level" performance not a sure thing but functional. . Re . . . .

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by gman0482 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Awesome info guys !! Thanks. The last thing I want to do is spend $$$ when I don't really need to. Did I mention the labor to install just a shifter/brake is $350 ??

Also, as I am shopping for the shifters, do the 10-spd Ultegra work with a 9-speed cassette ? I have 11-25.

The next thing is, making sure I do the job right by myself. [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]