Cramps

Jonathan Geater said:

I'm relatively new to cycling, coming from a track athletics background,
although I've been doing a 15-mile commute for the last couple of years
and some longer (30-odd mile) tempo rides in the summer evenings.
However, I have a real problem with cramping - today I did my first 10
mile TT, and did the second 5 miles with cramp biting at my inner thighs
all the way (limping home in 28:mumble - I've done 50 mile rides at
higher speeds than that!). This happens to me fairly often.

What can be done? Just put in more longer rides? More suitable
gearing? Eat more salt? It's very frustrating when you're doing 26mph
one minute and 16 the next...

Advice and references welcome.

Cheers,

Jon

Do you do the TT on a different bike? Do you warm up?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Quoted message said:

Do you do the TT on a different bike?

Yes, but I get it on both bikes.

Quoted message said:

Do you warm up?

Depends what you mean I guess. Today I did 3-4 miles about 20 minutes
before the start nice and steady, ~20mph on flat roads then stretched
out before lining up to go. Seemed like a reasonable warm-up to me but
maybe I should go longer.

You may be onto something though - I'm traditionally lazy in the warm-up
department as it's hardly ever affected me in other sports and I tend to
think that expending energy before the event is wasteful :-|

Cheers,

Jon

Jonathan Geater said:

I'm relatively new to cycling, coming from a track athletics
background, although I've been doing a 15-mile commute for the last
couple of years and some longer (30-odd mile) tempo rides in the
summer evenings. However, I have a real problem with cramping - today
I did my first 10 mile TT, and did the second 5 miles with cramp
biting at my inner thighs all the way (limping home in 28:mumble -
I've done 50 mile rides at higher speeds than that!). This happens
to me fairly often.
What can be done? Just put in more longer rides?

Probably won't help with cramps much but otherwise a good thing.

Quoted message said:

More suitable
gearing?

Would be worth trying to spin a bit faster (possibly); what sort of cadence
are you doing the TTs at?

Quoted message said:

Eat more salt?

Yes. And drink more water. And possibly try getting more magnesium (excuse
to eat nice dark chocolate).

Don't overdo stretching before your TT - warm up well, say 5 miles at
18-20mph going away from the start, then 5 miles back to the start with some
bursts at race pace, otherwise 16-20mph, aim to be back at the start with
3-5 minutes to wait, warm, heart rate at about your AT when you get there.
If you're thirsty drink a little bit, not a lot. Stretch gently, relax, wait
for your start.

Peter

It's calves for me. Seems to be getting worse year by year.

Training, proper hydration and minerals. LSD works for me, though
"slower" in this case means just a little off as fast as I otherwise ride.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

Jonathan Geater said:

Quoted message said:

Do you do the TT on a different bike?

Yes, but I get it on both bikes.

Quoted message said:

Do you warm up?

Depends what you mean I guess. Today I did 3-4 miles about 20 minutes
before the start nice and steady, ~20mph on flat roads then stretched
out before lining up to go. Seemed like a reasonable warm-up to me but
maybe I should go longer.

You may be onto something though - I'm traditionally lazy in the warm-up
department as it's hardly ever affected me in other sports and I tend to
think that expending energy before the event is wasteful :-|

Cheers,

Jon

What is your weekly mileage? How many days a week do you ride? How many
days did you ride from October to March?

jj

Peter Allen said:

say 5 miles at
18-20mph going away from the start, then 5 miles back to the start with some
bursts at race pace, otherwise 16-20mph, aim to be back at the start with
3-5 minutes

Riding five miles away from the start of a race and aiming to get to
the start 3-5 minute before seems to be cutting things awful close...

JT

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Quoted message said:

What is your weekly mileage?

At the moment it's only about 50-70. In the summer months (ie soon)
it's usually more than double that.

Quoted message said:

How many days a week do you ride?

As many as possible :-) No fewer than 3, usually 4.

Quoted message said:

How many days did you ride from October to March?

3-5 days a week, apart from ~6 weeks break in the middle where I did
none (I was in Japan for 4 weeks without a bike and came back with a
nasty chest infection).

They're not all good training miles though, of course.

Thinking about it, maybe I just need to train harder (or at least more)
;-) I've joined a club and have more TTs coming up so perhaps with
actual racing experience (rather than just riding reasonably quickly
with no particualr purpose) I'll learn what my body needs to prepare.

Cheers,

Jon

Peter Allen said:

Would be worth trying to spin a bit faster (possibly); what sort of cadence
are you doing the TTs at?

I don't know exactly, but it's in the lower range for sure. My
athletics background is in 200m/Long jump/triple jump so I'm more about
raw power than spinning. Or at least I think I am...

When I feel good I'm much more comfortable (and thus able to go faster
for longer) in 53x14 or so than higher up the cassette. This may just
be the inexperience showing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Eat more salt?

Yes. And drink more water.

I did think of this. Although I drank 500mls of water before the event
I was still very dry in the mouth.

Quoted message said:

Don't overdo stretching before your TT - warm up well, say 5 miles at
18-20mph going away from the start, then 5 miles back to the start with some
bursts at race pace, otherwise 16-20mph,

I'll give that a go next time. Thanks.

Thanks all for helping me in my lameness :-)

Cheers,

Jon

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Peter Allen said:

say 5 miles at
18-20mph going away from the start, then 5 miles back to the start
with some bursts at race pace, otherwise 16-20mph, aim to be back at
the start with 3-5 minutes

Riding five miles away from the start of a race and aiming to get to
the start 3-5 minute before seems to be cutting things awful close...

Depends on what sort of TT you're doing, I guess. If it's basically a club
TT, then no-one really cares as long as your bike is on the start line with
a minute to go, and there aren't going to be huge crowds to fight through to
get there. If you turn round with 20 minutes to go (which you can have
accurately by looking over the timekeeper's shoulder at his watch), five
miles from the start (assuming you know where this is, or you have a working
computer), then you just have to do somewhere between 16 and 20 mph on the
way back, and you'll be fine. Not rocket science.

(yes, I know this doesn't leave much time for a puncture, but chances of
puncturing in the 6 miles or so where it would be a problem is about 1 in
100, and evening 10s are not so important you'd care about DNSing or showing
up late for one every five years or so)

Peter

Jonathan Geater said:

Peter Allen said:

Would be worth trying to spin a bit faster (possibly); what sort of
cadence are you doing the TTs at?

I don't know exactly, but it's in the lower range for sure. My
athletics background is in 200m/Long jump/triple jump so I'm more
about raw power than spinning. Or at least I think I am...

When I feel good I'm much more comfortable (and thus able to go faster
for longer) in 53x14 or so than higher up the cassette. This may just
be the inexperience showing.

You're still going to put out the same power spinning faster. But the lower
force might help avoid cramps. If you're not comfortable spinning faster
then try the other things first, if they don't work then learn to spin
faster. This would probably be a good idea soonish, anyway - your cadence
will be about 70-75, which is pretty low. Relax and don't try to work it,
mainly.

Peter

You need salt. Eat bananas. Add salt to your food.

"Jonathan Geater" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm relatively new to cycling, coming from a track athletics background,
although I've been doing a 15-mile commute for the last couple of years
and some longer (30-odd mile) tempo rides in the summer evenings. However,
I have a real problem with cramping - today I did my first 10 mile TT, and
did the second 5 miles with cramp biting at my inner thighs all the way
(limping home in 28:mumble - I've done 50 mile rides at higher speeds than
that!). This happens to me fairly often.

What can be done? Just put in more longer rides? More suitable gearing?
Eat more salt? It's very frustrating when you're doing 26mph one minute
and 16 the next...

Advice and references welcome.

Cheers,

Jon

Peter Allen said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Peter Allen said:

say 5 miles at
18-20mph going away from the start, then 5 miles back to the start
with some bursts at race pace, otherwise 16-20mph, aim to be back at
the start with 3-5 minutes

Riding five miles away from the start of a race and aiming to get to
the start 3-5 minute before seems to be cutting things awful close...

Depends on what sort of TT you're doing, I guess. If it's basically a club
TT, then no-one really cares as long as your bike is on the start line with
a minute to go, and there aren't going to be huge crowds to fight through to
get there. If you turn round with 20 minutes to go (which you can have
accurately by looking over the timekeeper's shoulder at his watch), five
miles from the start (assuming you know where this is, or you have a working
computer), then you just have to do somewhere between 16 and 20 mph on the
way back, and you'll be fine. Not rocket science.

(yes, I know this doesn't leave much time for a puncture, but chances of
puncturing in the 6 miles or so where it would be a problem is about 1 in
100, and evening 10s are not so important you'd care about DNSing or showing
up late for one every five years or so)

If you're willing to be so risk-taking in your own planning, that's
fine, but it doesn't seem appropriate to give this sort of advice to a
beginner. It's certainly possible to get the same sort of warmup on a
circuit or something close to the venue and if it was me offering
advice that is what I would suggest -- or better yet doing the core of
the warm-up on a trainer a short distance from the start.. A three to
five minute margin in a ten mile ride seems silly to me, but I try to
do things carefully and plan for uncertainty.

JT

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"Jonathan Geater" wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I have a real problem with cramping

<snip>

You should be able to entirely eliminate muscle cramping by drinking fluid
with salt during your race. Muscle cramps are predominantly due to low
sodium. To be clear, I'm talking about substantially more sodium than you
find in your typical sports drinks. If your expect to sweat a lot, you need
to add salt to your sports drink. Period.

The *worst* thing you can do is drink too much fluid without enough salt,
which could actually kill you (hyponatremia). Also, I've been told that
eating a lot of salt in your diet doesn't really help much because excess is
quickly eliminated. In other words, you can't really load up on sodium.

Mark

Mark Fennell said:

"Jonathan Geater" wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I have a real problem with cramping

<snip>

You should be able to entirely eliminate muscle cramping by drinking fluid
with salt during your race. Muscle cramps are predominantly due to low
sodium. To be clear, I'm talking about substantially more sodium than you
find in your typical sports drinks. If your expect to sweat a lot, you need
to add salt to your sports drink. Period.

In an endurance race, I can understand this. Not in a 16km TT.

Mark Fennell said:

"Jonathan Geater" wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I have a real problem with cramping

<snip>

You should be able to entirely eliminate muscle cramping by drinking fluid
with salt during your race.

You're suggesting drinking liquids during a 10-mile TT? Except
perhaps in extremely hot weather, that's bizarre. The event will be
only about 25 minutes long. Perhaps the OP should follow your advice
in his warmup, but not during the event itself.

JT

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Bike fit. Go to a shop or cycling coach that know what they're doing and
make certain your position is correct.

"Jonathan Geater" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm relatively new to cycling, coming from a track athletics background,
although I've been doing a 15-mile commute for the last couple of years
and some longer (30-odd mile) tempo rides in the summer evenings. However,
I have a real problem with cramping - today I did my first 10 mile TT, and
did the second 5 miles with cramp biting at my inner thighs all the way
(limping home in 28:mumble - I've done 50 mile rides at higher speeds than
that!). This happens to me fairly often.

What can be done? Just put in more longer rides? More suitable gearing?
Eat more salt? It's very frustrating when you're doing 26mph one minute
and 16 the next...

Advice and references welcome.

Cheers,

Jon

Jim Weeks said:

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's calves for me. Seems to be getting worse year by year.

Training, proper hydration and minerals. LSD works for me, though "slower"
in this case means just a little off as fast as I otherwise ride.

hmm I'm thinking I see enough colors and flashy things when I'm biking as it
is.. a drop or two of the Lysergic probably wouldn't be a good thing...

or am I off the mark on this LSD thing..

jpw

It never even occurred to me that it would be misinterpreted, but the
context fits fine. I feel geeky.

It feels good.

(LSD: long slow distance)

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

JT said:

You're suggesting drinking liquids during a 10-mile TT? Except
perhaps in extremely hot weather, that's bizarre. The event will be
only about 25 minutes long. Perhaps the OP should follow your advice
in his warmup, but not during the event itself.

Oops, I didn't really read the OP. I just responded to the subject line. Of
course you and Stewart are correct wrt a short tt. The OP must not be
starting his event with his body chemistry in order, so maybe more salt in
his diet is the correct solution.

Howard Kveck said:

I'd say that snack type foods are the probably the worst for
excessive salt content.

Yeah - I wasn't thinking there, I tend to snack on biscuits and fruit, which
aren't salty, but like you say most snacks are.

Quoted message said:

But I think that many Americans are kind of
freaked out about using too much salt when they cook, and they
seriously underseason what they're cooking. Salt makes whatever food
item you're cooking taste more like itself.

If you normally eat lots of salt, everything will taste bland without salt.
If you don't eat lots of salt, then you can taste food perfectly well
without putting salt in, and extra salt just tastes bad.

I suppose this just comes down to taste really - just to make clear, I don't
avoid salt in food because I think it's unhealthy, I just don't like the
taste.

Peter (not American)