Crashing The Pain Barrier

I used to train like that with weights and in cycling but I quit. Had too many problems with recovery. Now I just look for some kind of progression over time.

As long as some type of improvements are coming I'm happy. Those improvements can come in the form of a lower heart rate for a (dare I say this?) given average speed over a familiar course, better able to tolerate greater distance at a familiar speed, able to add a little more weight to the bar, able to do a few more reps (or even 1 more) or more sets with a given weight.

It may take longer to achieve a goal by training this way but there is much less of a chance of injury and burnout.

Edit: for those who are serious about racing a different approach may be necessary. I train purely for health, overall fitness and fun.

Or you can stop lay on the ground and say things like "What was I thinking?"

I get close to the pain barrier during a climb I do when I ride back home from my boat. There's a hill that starts off very steep and then gets less steep as you wind your way up. So, you start off in a small gear and keep changing to bigger gears as the gradient lessens but you still have to stay standing up all the way.
There are times I can't go through with it and turn in another direction.
Doctor Morbius, what do you think is the difference between elevated pulse rate after high-rep squats and elevated pulse rate after a hard sprint or climb?
When I went to the gym the other day I had only 20 minutes to do my session before the place closed. I decided to superset squats and bench press the way Arnold used to do in the sixties. Naturally, my pulse rate got damned high over 20 minutes so I'm assuming there would have been some cardiovascular benefit.
I can either climb for 20 minutes and die or superset for 20 minutes.
At a guess I'd say the main difference is muscular and felt in the legs and fibres themselves, perhaps?

Doctor Morbius said:

I used to train like that with weights and in cycling but I quit. Had too many problems with recovery. Now I just look for some kind of progression over time.

As long as some type of improvements are coming I'm happy. Those improvements can come in the form of a lower heart rate for a (dare I say this?) given average speed over a familiar course, better able to tolerate greater distance at a familiar speed, able to add a little more weight to the bar, able to do a few more reps (or even 1 more) or more sets with a given weight.

It may take longer to achieve a goal by training this way but there is much less of a chance of injury and burnout.

Edit: for those who are serious about racing a different approach may be necessary. I train purely for health, overall fitness and fun.

Carrera said:

Doctor Morbius, what do you think is the difference between elevated pulse rate after high-rep squats and elevated pulse rate after a hard sprint or climb?

When I went to the gym the other day I had only 20 minutes to do my session before the place closed. I decided to superset squats and bench press the way Arnold used to do in the sixties. Naturally, my pulse rate got damned high over 20 minutes so I'm assuming there would have been some cardiovascular benefit.
I can either climb for 20 minutes and die or superset for 20 minutes.

Absolutely there is cardiovascular benefit to such a workout. Next time you go to the gym wear your heart rate monitor and keep an eye on it. Do some hard supersets, such as what you've described. That's the way I try to train during the Winter months as I don't ride in cold weather due to the wuss factor. On most workouts I can average between 70% to 75% of my known cycling max for the duration of the workout. This often includes exercises that aren't too taxing on the cardio system, like wrist curls. A couple of times I averaged 80% of MaxHR, but those were pretty hard workouts and weren't very long.

I push the "pain barrier" hard maybe a couple of times a month. Usually it's on a sprint with buddies on a short ride, or on my home hill when I'm trying to hold a PR speed. On the rare day when all systems are firing, the leg pain almost feels good....."almost" being the operative word.

Agree with Doc that you don't need to do this every time you get on the bike. Full recovery between hard efforts is important; at least for old guys like me.

A sage I used to ride with had a theory that all the hard training doesn't really make us stronger; it serves just to dull the pain receptors in the brain.

Every time I do a time trial, after I finish I berate myself for not pushing myself harder when I hit that barrier. But, you know, there is a point for all of us when we physically cannot maintain, no matter how mentally tough we may be. The trouble is, we can never be sure we were at that point or we just wimped out. So I'll continue to berate myself.

Carrera said:

... it's that point where something in your mind says, "I can't go on!" but the legs continue to push ahead and an inner force urges you to keep going regardless. That's the pain barrier.

OK, I have to admit that 9 of 10 times, something in my mind says, "I can't go on" so I shift up to the 19, up my cadance to around 100, and quit trying for a while.

What do ya'll do to push yourself past it? I don't seem to manage, most the time.

I was on a long ride down to my boat with about 10 k.g. round my neck in a rucksack when another roadie overtook me. I simply had to give chase but it was a very hot day, I was sweating profusely and I had the 10 k.g. round my neck.
All the way, I was trying to claw back the distance and make gains but didn't seem to be closing the gap. I was suffering terribly. I wondered whether the 10 k.g. made the difference or whether it made only a slight difference.
Finally I caught the rider up after he stopped to take in some fluid. We then rode together for a short pace but I felt pretty pancaked.
Then, of course, I crashed twice over the last few weeks. On one occasion I went into orbit after a car hit me and then bounced over the roof and landed on the concrete to the screams of a gathering crowd of onlookers.
My wrists are still acheing from that.
The car was actually damaged from the impact of my body but I had no broken bones. In fact, I dusted myself off, got back on my bike and rode, after the driver gave me his details.

Pendejo said:

Every time I do a time trial, after I finish I berate myself for not pushing myself harder when I hit that barrier. But, you know, there is a point for all of us when we physically cannot maintain, no matter how mentally tough we may be. The trouble is, we can never be sure we were at that point or we just wimped out. So I'll continue to berate myself.

Sometimes you can be killing yourself on a slight climb and be going at 12 mph in a small gear. But if you change to a smaller cog and drive like crazy, the speed goes up to 16 mph and you can, at least, finish the climb faster and suffer less time.
I agree with Lance that suffering is character building so I still drive my way through the pain barrier as this is what makes a true cyclist.

DCWD said:

OK, I have to admit that 9 of 10 times, something in my mind says, "I can't go on" so I shift up to the 19, up my cadance to around 100, and quit trying for a while.

What do ya'll do to push yourself past it? I don't seem to manage, most the time.

There are many true cyclists who have never crossed the barrier.

IMHO, try a 2.5 minute L6 (125% FT) climb and sprint the last 10 seconds as hard as you can (around 200% FT). That will beat you with the pain stick.

The barrier hits me when I tend to over-react to some dude who passes me by.
I recall someone speeding past me and, without thinking, I broke into a rapid sprint to take the lead back. I did that because the guy who overtook was looking behind to see whether he'd dropped me completely.
Next we came up to a hill and I was pedaling like crazy at 17 mph and dying in the process. I kept thinking this guy must be right behind my wheel and just kept going.
However, after some 15 minutes of busting my butt the other guy was gone, maybe turned off.
That was fortunate for me as I had hugely overtaxed my reserves and was feeling as dead as a doormouse. :p I arrived back home literally pouring in sweat and my hair soaked.

Spunout said:

There are many true cyclists who have never crossed the barrier.

IMHO, try a 2.5 minute L6 (125% FT) climb and sprint the last 10 seconds as hard as you can (around 200% FT). That will beat you with the pain stick.