Crazy Traffic

Mark Thompson said:

Not even midday and the traffic is crazy.

Horror story on the way in.
<www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/men/news/s/227/227043
_crane_worker_falls_to_death.html>

On the way back I find two cars, one having T-boned the other at some
crossroads. How do they do this when the junction is controlled by traffic
lights???<-- rhetorical question

Yes, unfortunately some cars can spontaneously turn into bikes when
approaching red traffic lights, then the momentum forces the
driver/rider across the line before it turns back into a car and
crashes with the car in the conflicting stream of traffic.

It's the only explanation. After all, only bikes and all bikes jump all
red lights.

A

Ambrose Nankivell wrote on 01/11/2006 15:37 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Yes, unfortunately some cars can spontaneously turn into bikes when
approaching red traffic lights, then the momentum forces the
driver/rider across the line before it turns back into a car and
crashes with the car in the conflicting stream of traffic.

Seriously many moons ago when my biker XYL was learning to drive the
instructor slammed on the anchors as she was overtaking. The problem
she had not appreciated was she was no longer on a bike and the left
hand side of the car avec instructor was about to try to occupy the same
phase space as the parked car.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Ambrose Nankivell said:

Yes, unfortunately some cars can spontaneously turn into bikes when
approaching red traffic lights, then the momentum forces the
driver/rider across the line before it turns back into a car and
crashes with the car in the conflicting stream of traffic.

Nonsense. The driver with the green light could easily be to blame,
because green means "proceed with caution". The other vehicle may have
been turning right, for example.
Just because your light is green doesn't mean you can go and hit
anything that happens to be in the way.

Quoted message said:

It's the only explanation. After all, only bikes and all bikes jump all
red lights.

Bikes don't jump all red lights, cyclists who jump red lights tend to
do so when it is safe, i.e. treat it is a "give way", often in a
situation where there is absolutely nothing coming, or a pedestrian
phase where there are no pedestrians, at least not in the path of the
cyclist.

Quoted message said:

Bikes don't jump all red lights, cyclists who jump red lights tend to
do so when it is safe, i.e. treat it is a "give way", often in a
situation where there is absolutely nothing coming, or a pedestrian
phase where there are no pedestrians, at least not in the path of the
cyclist.

IME car drivers also tend to do so when it is safe, i.e. before the other
traffic has started moving, or at least before their passage conflicts with
the other traffic.

The main difference is that most traffic lights are there to regulate
traffic flow, so IMO could be treated as give way junctions for cyclists
and motorcyclists. This may have an adverse effect on KSI rates (or maybe
the opposite, as cyclists will not be sitting to the left of left turning
lorries).

Earl Purple said:

Bikes don't jump all red lights, cyclists who jump red lights tend to
do so when it is safe, i.e. treat it is a "give way", often in a
situation where there is absolutely nothing coming, or a pedestrian
phase where there are no pedestrians, at least not in the path of the
cyclist.

Except of course the exceptions, such as the tw@ who knocked down my 2
yo on a light controlled pedestrian crossing. Seriously not impressed.
If there are rules, then obeying them means everyone knows what will
happen. Making them up as you go along is a bad thing. I am in favour
of the law being changed such that red lights can be treated as give
way by cyclists (with peds crossing having right of way) but until
that happens, do the predictable thing [1] and stop at them.

...d

[1] outside london.

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

Bikes don't jump all red lights, cyclists who jump red lights tend to
do so when it is safe, i.e. treat it is a "give way", often in a
situation where there is absolutely nothing coming, or a pedestrian
phase where there are no pedestrians, at least not in the path of the
cyclist.

IME car drivers also tend to do so when it is safe, i.e. before the other
traffic has started moving, or at least before their passage conflicts with
the other traffic.

Usually an "amber gambler" where the gamble didn't pay off (i.e. it
went red, not that they crashed). Obviously anyone who jumps a light
doesn't expect to crash.

You won't often see a car cross a red light that has been red for a
while though simply because there is no conflicting traffic (or
pedestrians).

Quoted message said:

The main difference is that most traffic lights are there to regulate
traffic flow, so IMO could be treated as give way junctions for cyclists
and motorcyclists. This may have an adverse effect on KSI rates (or maybe
the opposite, as cyclists will not be sitting to the left of left turning lorries).

I do not see that allowing a cyclist to exercise judgement at a traffic
light is any worse than allowing them to exercise judgement at any
other junction that has a give-way sign with no traffic lights. The
traffic light is safer because usually the cyclist will go when there
is definitely no conflict, i.e. won't have to judge approaching
driver's speed etc.

I don't think motorcyclists should be exempt though.

Cyclists crossing red lights would not be exempt from prosecution if
there was conflicting traffic or pedestrians that they should be giving
way to. Such would be cycling without due care and attention though.

Earl Purple said:

Ambrose Nankivell wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's the only explanation. After all, only bikes and all bikes jump all
red lights.

Bikes don't jump all red lights, cyclists who jump red lights tend to
do so when it is safe, i.e. treat it is a "give way", often in a
situation where there is absolutely nothing coming, or a pedestrian
phase where there are no pedestrians, at least not in the path of the
cyclist.

What's that whooshing sound? Could it be irony not being realised?

Sprinkle these where you feel they are appropriate.

:-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-)
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Quoted message said:

Sprinkle these where you feel they are appropriate.

:-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-)
::-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-)

B'ah, you can't expect people to read your posts with the same care and
attention to linguistic details as was taken in their writing.

On 1 Nov, Mark Thompson <> wrote:
[someone said]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bikes don't jump all red lights, cyclists who jump red lights tend to
do so when it is safe, i.e. treat it is a "give way", often in a
situation where there is absolutely nothing coming, or a pedestrian
phase where there are no pedestrians, at least not in the path of the
cyclist.

IME car drivers also tend to do so when it is safe,

Yours differs from most people. Most people observe that motorists
jump lights irrespective of safety, as long as the red hasn't been red
for a really long time.

regards,
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Ian Smith said:

Yours differs from most people. Most people observe that motorists
jump lights irrespective of safety, as long as the red hasn't been red
for a really long time.

Most motorists that I see jumping red lights are following the vehicle
in front, which is usually safe (ish) because whoever has the green
light will be waiting for a gap before moving off, so by ensuring
there's no gap between the car in front and the RLJ they're probably OK

Inconsiderate, yes, and asking for trouble if the car in front has to
stop suddenly, but little risk of being hit from the side.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

IME car drivers also tend to do so when it is safe,

Yours differs from most people. Most people observe that motorists
jump lights irrespective of safety, as long as the red hasn't been red
for a really long time.

The lack of carnage at every light controlled junction, despite the levels
of red light jumping, tend to support my experience over 'most peoples'.
Safety is, I suppose, never absolute which gives us a chance for lots and
lots of fruitless argument.

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

Sprinkle these where you feel they are appropriate.

:-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-):-)
::-):-) :-):-) :-):-) :-)

B'ah, you can't expect people to read your posts with the same care and
attention to linguistic details as was taken in their writing.

Hey! It was MY post. Weren't you paying attention? 😉

I've no idea what point of view Earl Purple thought I WAS supporting,
though. One can only hope that he/she has used up all their due care
and attention on the road, when deciding whether to cycle through red
lights or complain about the enforcement of speed limits, leaving no
due care and attention for usenet.

A