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Crews' Health

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
12 January 2004
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17 January 2004
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Jharold Rutabag
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  1. Is it healthy to live aboard a nuclear submarine?

    The common person does not know much about nuclear submarines, so the issue of health is in the
    dark. The navy exclaims its healthy victorious journey through time and sea, but all tales are not
    told. I would not feel guilty or shameful to say that the basic heath of submariners is ignored.
    Granted it is up to each person to maintain their own health, but one can only go so far to overcome
    daily restrictions and obstacles.

    There is a revolving 18 hour day which in itself is somewhat unnatural. Some scientist somewhere
    figured out that this was the most efficient means of operation. Those said scientists have not
    probably bothered to place themselves on the recommended schedule for an extended period of time.

    Often you are not allowed to exercise for atmosphere control and due to mission regulations. Other
    times, being up for 36 - 52 hours naturally (if it may be stated that way) kills any desire to
    maintain your body or health.

    Most fresh food is gone within a week. The meal quality, which is supposed to be among the best in
    the fleet, is its own topic.

    On frequent occasions, and against federal safety rules in place, my command officers found it
    necessary to paint major portions of the boat while underwater. This was not usually accomplished
    out of necessity, but for shipboard beautification. To claim the commanding officers usual status,
    ignorance, would be inappropriate on all levels. Not only were people painting, but on several
    occasions a large portion of the crew was sectioned off to be part of the "paint team." During
    these exercises, many of these crew members had no job other than to paint the boat while it was
    under water.

    Not all members of the crew were allowed to use respirators, and some were even prohibited from
    using them as they could not receive them because they had not attended the training course. The
    main source of filtration while underwater are those breathing the tainted air. I do not believe the
    headache inducing paint huffing abides by the navy zero tolerance program. Then again, because it is
    only destructive and it softens the brain for further brain washing, it might be acceptable.

    The oxygen level is also artificially low. Again, scientists had decided that it was important for
    the crew members to have low energy levels. This is part of the reason that most of the foods are
    fatty, and is the whole reason oxygen levels are left below that of the outside world. This is not a
    positive if you are naturally a somewhat depressed person. This effect combined with the lack of
    sunlight and general negative atmosphere can quickly spiral you into extreme depression.

    The navy has a physical readiness program, which I am forced to view as a joke. I have been to about
    a half dozen commands and have not seen any reasonable standards enforced or followed. To best point
    this out, I only have to think back to the 350 lbs + man that sat my courts martial. There was a
    program in place that kicked people out for being too heavy when I joined the navy. This program was
    abolished since too many people were eating their way to freedom.

    -=- This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

  2. "JHarold Rutabaga" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:TFE58M3N37997.9477662037@anonymous...

    Quoted message said:

    Is it healthy to live aboard a nuclear submarine?

    snip of entertaining stuff, except he forgot to mention the saltpetre in the food put there to keep
    the men impotent. (they do do that , right??? teehee)

    Quoted message said:

    seen any reasonable standards enforced or followed. To best point this out, I only have to think
    back to the 350 lbs + man that sat my courts martial.

    That would be even more entertaining to hear about

    Regards, Barry

  3. Moral of the story avoid submarine duty.

    Painting the interior while under water with poor ventilation and poor protection, sounds like the
    military mind at work.

    I wonder if they have elevated prostate cancer (from the lack of UV and vitamin D3 and) and elevated
    leukemia rates (from the paint fumes)?

    Just say Yes to No.............. ...............William A. Noyes

    "JHarold Rutabaga" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:TFE58M3N37997.9477662037@anonymous...

    Quoted message said:

    Is it healthy to live aboard a nuclear submarine?

    The common person does not know much about nuclear submarines, so the issue of health is in the
    dark. The navy exclaims its healthy victorious journey through time and sea, but all tales are not
    told. I would not feel guilty or shameful to say that the basic heath of submariners is ignored.
    Granted it is up to each person to maintain their own health, but one can only go so far to
    overcome daily restrictions and obstacles.

    There is a revolving 18 hour day which in itself is somewhat unnatural. Some scientist somewhere
    figured out that this was the most efficient means of operation. Those said scientists have not
    probably bothered to place themselves on the recommended schedule for an extended period of time.

    Often you are not allowed to exercise for atmosphere control and due to mission regulations. Other
    times, being up for 36 - 52 hours naturally (if it may be stated that way) kills any desire to
    maintain your body or health.

    Most fresh food is gone within a week. The meal quality, which is supposed to be among the best in
    the fleet, is its own topic.

    On frequent occasions, and against federal safety rules in place, my command officers found it
    necessary to paint major portions of the boat while underwater. This was not usually accomplished
    out of necessity, but for shipboard beautification. To claim the commanding officers usual status,
    ignorance, would be inappropriate on all levels. Not only were people painting, but on several
    occasions a large portion of the crew was sectioned off to be part of the "paint team." During
    these exercises, many of these crew members had no job other than to paint the boat while it was
    under water.

    Not all members of the crew were allowed to use respirators, and some were even prohibited from
    using them as they could not receive them because they had not attended the training course. The
    main source of filtration while underwater are those breathing the tainted air. I do not believe
    the headache inducing paint huffing abides by the navy zero tolerance program. Then again, because
    it is only destructive and it softens the brain for further brain washing, it might be acceptable.

    The oxygen level is also artificially low. Again, scientists had decided that it was important for
    the crew members to have low energy levels. This is part of the reason that most of the foods are
    fatty, and is the whole reason oxygen levels are left below that of the outside world. This is not
    a positive if you are naturally a somewhat depressed person. This effect combined with the lack of
    sunlight and general negative atmosphere can quickly spiral you into extreme depression.

    The navy has a physical readiness program, which I am forced to view as a joke. I have been to
    about a half dozen commands and have not seen any reasonable standards enforced or followed. To
    best point this out, I only have to think back to the 350 lbs + man that sat my courts martial.
    There was a program in place that kicked people out for being too heavy when I joined the navy.
    This program was abolished since too many people were eating their way to freedom.

    -=- This message was posted via two or more anonymous remailing services.

  4. "JHarold Rutabaga" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:TFE58M3N37997.9477662037@anonymous...

    Quoted message said:

    Is it healthy to live aboard a nuclear submarine?

    The common person does not know much about nuclear submarines, so the issue of health is in the
    dark. The navy exclaims its healthy victorious journey through time and sea, but all tales are not
    told. I would not feel guilty or shameful to say that the basic heath of submariners is ignored.
    Granted it is up to each person to maintain their own health, but one can only go so far to
    overcome daily restrictions and obstacles.

    Unless things have changed, SSBNs are the only ships of their size with a highly-qualified
    specially trained MD aboard.

    Quoted message said:


    There is a revolving 18 hour day which in itself is somewhat unnatural. Some scientist somewhere
    figured out that this was the most efficient means of operation.

    True, it took me a few days to recover and start sleeping at night and staying awake during the
    day, the Navy gave me those days for free.

    Quoted message said:

    Those said scientists have not probably bothered to place themselves on the recommended schedule
    for an extended period of time.

    SSBNs have been around for about 40 years now, this is no longer a scientific mystery.

    Quoted message said:


    Often you are not allowed to exercise for atmosphere control and due to mission regulations.

    Can't talk about your boat, but I have never heard of such a thing.

    Quoted message said:

    Other times, being up for 36 - 52 hours naturally (if it may be stated that way) kills any desire
    to maintain your body or health.

    Don't know, the only time we worked extended hours was refit.

    Quoted message said:


    Most fresh food is gone within a week.

    True, they compensate.

    Quoted message said:

    The meal quality, which is supposed to be among the best in the fleet, is its own topic.

    It is excellent! I hope they have reduced the caloric and fat content some though.

    (The rest of this post dissolves into [censored] and I am out of time)

    Vaughn

  5. Is it healthy to live aboard a nuclear submarine?

    Modern submariners tend to have two distinctive features: they are often a little chubby (by
    military standards) and they often smell a little funny. They are quick to tell you that is
    because "the air is cleaner aboard a sub." Whatever. ;-) Rotating watches do have some long
    term effects, but submariners (aand even the military ) aren't alone in having to utilize
    them. The main complaint seems to be about failure to follow 'proper' procedures in
    painting. I can believe it happens, virtually every day sees someone somewhere cutting
    corners -- and it is usually the lower ranks that suffer the consequences. I don't know if
    it is a fleetwide problem, however. Few people spend long in the Navy without being able to
    relate tales of incredible stupidity and dangerousness they have seen, but it tends to be
    the same in industry. As to lack of physical fitness, well, it is traditional for modern
    submarine sailors to be a little heavy. (Translation: weight standards sometimes get a wink
    and nod). For one, the food is too good and the sailors, like most Americans, tend to eat a
    little too much of the weight-inducing stuff. "Grill your own steak" night was a feature,
    not "Make your own salad night." Secondly, physical activity is often very limited on
    submarines. In theory you can work out, I have a relative who served on at least one
    submarine where it was "discouraged", however. Not enough space and a lot of sweaty sailors
    and clothes. The bike machine was basically reserved for the XO. Forced PT and healthy
    eating are so downright un-American that to impose them would lower morale. :-) I haven't
    seen any recent statistics on submarine vs. surface sailors overall health. On the whole,
    however, I would expect submarines to have a lower accident rate. Painting on a sub may
    sound like a problem, but an awful lot of painting (and other stuff) on surface ships is
    also done in confined spaces, and once again safety unfortunately is not always first on
    everyone's list.

    regards,
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    [email hidden]

  6. JHarold Rutabaga muttered....

    To best point

    Quoted message said:

    this out, I only have to think back to the 350 lbs + man that sat my courts martial.

    Did Southwest Airlines make him buy two seats?

    TMO

  7. "William A. Noyes" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    :Moral of the story avoid submarine duty.

    No, I think the moral of the story is to not give much, if any, credence to stories that come via
    multiple anonymous remailers and are told by people who admit to being court martialed as if this is
    a normal part of being in the service.

    the normal course of events, particularly if you're attached to an afloat command. It's much easier
    to simply be unlucky and draw a green table as an officer than it is to actually get a Court Martial
    as an enlisted man.

    --
    "Rule Number One for Slayers - Don't die."

    -- Buffy, the Vampire Slayer

  8. "William A. Noyes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Moral of the story avoid submarine duty.

    Painting the interior while under water with poor ventilation and poor protection, sounds like the
    military mind at work.

    It sound bogus to me. All the nuclear boats I went aboard (as a civilian contractor) had strict
    rules about the use of solvents while submerged and had atmospheric analyzers that monitored the
    build up of such contaminants. Those interested in art had to stick to water colours as I recall.

    Keith

  9. In sci.military.naval Olivers <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : JHarold Rutabaga muttered....

    : To best point
    :> this out, I only have to think back to the 350 lbs + man that sat my courts martial.

    : Did Southwest Airlines make him buy two seats?

    Just because he weighed 350 doesn't mean he failed the body fat standard. He could have
    been NFL sized.... I sometimes think I should buy two seats, one in front of the other --
    and tear the first one out for legroom. And loosing weight would not help me with my
    shoulder span...

    This actually raises a very tangential navy related question. If a government
    employee/military person is flying commercial air, what do the JFTRs say about people
    required by the airlines to buy two seats?

    regards,
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    [email hidden]

  10. "Keith Willshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "William A. Noyes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Moral of the story avoid submarine duty.

    Painting the interior while under water with poor ventilation and poor protection, sounds like
    the military mind at work.

    It sound bogus to me. All the nuclear boats I went aboard (as a civilian contractor) had strict
    rules about the use of solvents while submerged and had atmospheric analyzers that monitored the
    build up of such contaminants. Those interested in art had to stick to water colours as I recall.

    Keith

  11. Quoted message said:

    It sound bogus to me. All the nuclear boats I went aboard (as a civilian contractor) had strict
    rules about the use of solvents while submerged and had atmospheric analyzers that monitored the
    build up of such contaminants. Those interested in art had to stick to water colours as I recall.

    You are right of course.

  12. In message <[email hidden]>, Steven James Forsberg <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    I sometimes think I should buy two seats, one in front of the other -- and tear the first
    one out for legroom. And loosing weight would not help me with my shoulder span...

    The most comfortable flights to date I recall were off-peak trips with Air Canada, on a half-empty
    flight where I had the seat beside me empty both ways. I got useful sleep both ways. (On a 2-3-2
    767, some were using empty middle seats as bunks...)

    I'm also too tall to be comfortable in any single economy class seat I've ridden to date, but life's
    a [censored]... that's why they call it 'economy' instead of 'luxurious delightful comfort'. Having spare
    space helps when you can get it.

    Quoted message said:

    This actually raises a very tangential navy related question. If a government
    employee/military person is flying commercial air, what do the JFTRs say about people
    required by the airlines to buy two seats?

    Personal guess, "you're one person, you get one seat!" for UK rules.

    But then I'm in the 'deployable' category as are many colleagues, which requires us to at least be
    fit enough to keep up with field HQs. This crudely limits girth, if not height: and sadly us long-and-
    lean types are expected to fit into whatever seat pitch is allocated; even if others can complain
    about width, we're stuck with 'that seat has not yet been declared unfit for human use'.

    (Not knocking you, Steve, but our travel budget tends to be tight... 'go economy or don't go' is
    not uncommon)

    --
    When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite. W S Churchill

    Paul J. Adam MainBox<at>jrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

  13. Vaughn said:

    Unless things have changed, SSBNs are the only ships of their size with a highly-qualified
    specially trained MD aboard.

    Yah, they changed decades ago... The '41 abandoned real docs during the early 70's and the 726's in
    the late 80's.

    D.
    --
    The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found at the following URLs:

    Text-Only Version: io.comcolumbia loss faq.html

    Enhanced HTML Version: io.comcolumbia loss faq x.html

    Corrections, comments, and additions should be e-mailed to [email hidden], as well as posted to
    sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for discussion.

  14. Steven James Forsberg muttered....

    Quoted message said:


    This actually raises a very tangential navy related question. If a government
    employee/military person is flying commercial air, what do the JFTRs say about people
    required by the airlines to buy two seats?


    While I doubt the military would do it, if the old TRs and contract prices are still used, civil
    servants would likely get away with it, although the various IG offices might raise a flap later.
    Under civil service/GEUnion rules, I don't think you could deny a CS the required second ticket.

    I share your need for legroom, travel a great deal, most of it on AA, "More room in coach" still on
    domestic and transatlantic service (but not the Carib Sea).

    TMO

  15. Steven James Forsberg said:


    In sci.military.naval Olivers <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : JHarold Rutabaga muttered....

    : To best point
    :> this out, I only have to think back to the 350 lbs + man that sat my courts martial.

    : Did Southwest Airlines make him buy two seats?

    Just because he weighed 350 doesn't mean he failed the body fat standard. He could have
    been NFL sized.... I sometimes think I should buy two seats, one in front of the other --
    and tear the first one out for legroom. And loosing weight would not help me with my
    shoulder span...

    This actually raises a very tangential navy related question. If a government
    employee/military person is flying commercial air, what do the JFTRs say about people
    required by the airlines to buy two seats?

    regards,
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    [email hidden]

    I have noticed that government employees are preferentially placed in seats near the hatch, I assume
    because they are used to following orders and won't need to be argued with in a crunch.

    Joe

    -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- newsfeeds.comnewsfeeds.com - The #1
    Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

  16. Joe Osman <[email hidden]> wrote:

    :I have noticed that government employees are preferentially :placed in seats near the hatch, I
    assume because they are :used to following orders and won't need to be argued with in :a crunch.

    Well, I don't know that THAT is the reason I'd go with. I think one of these is more likely:

    1) Military folks are generally going to keep it together in an emergency, when you need to get that
    hatch open and operating, and/or

    2) Government travel bookers are doing them a favour, since those rows typically have more leg room.

    --
    "We come into the world and take our chances. Fate is just the weight of circumstances. That's the
    way that Lady Luck dances. Roll the bones...."
    -- "Roll The Bones", Rush

  17. "Paul J. Adam" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    :But then I'm in the 'deployable' category as are many colleagues, which :requires us to at least be
    fit enough to keep up with field HQs. This :crudely limits girth, if not height: and sadly us long-and-
    lean types :are expected to fit into whatever seat pitch is allocated; even if :others can complain
    about width, we're stuck with 'that seat has not yet :been declared unfit for human use'.

    Doesn't help me much, either. I'm currently out of shape and sitting next to me is uncomfortable for
    anyone anywhere near my size. It's not just the 'out of shape' part - my shoulders are wider than
    the seat back, which means everyone gets to twist and lean to keep from running into each other.

    I think someone else noted that they have a similar problem.

    --
    "May God have mercy upon my enemies; they will need it."

    -- General George S Patton, Jr.

  18. "Fred J. McCall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Joe Osman <[email hidden]> wrote:

    :I have noticed that government employees are preferentially :placed in seats near the hatch, I
    assume because they are :used to following orders and won't need to be argued with in :a crunch.

    Well, I don't know that THAT is the reason I'd go with. I think one of these is more likely:

    1) Military folks are generally going to keep it together in an emergency, when you need to get
    that hatch open and operating, and/or


    In/on flights originating from UK airports, Passenger Service Agents (PSA) aka 'check-in operators'
    have the final say on seat allocation. PSA are obliged to select - without Joe Six-pack realising
    the fact - pax that will _not hinder_ the emergency egress (don't you love that word?) of
    passengers. A bonus is to select pax that _might_ help cabin-staff in in an emergency. Trying to
    brow-beat the clerk behind the desk with;- "I need the extra leg-room 'cos my leg is in
    plaster!", "My children want a good view"; or any such techniques cuts no ice. [There is an audit
    trail detailing which PSA assigned the seat.] By and large, 'military folk' meet the selection
    criteria as do healthy, uninjured, non-deaf, non-blind, 'government employees' - Joe may have
    observed an effect not a cause. [YMMV}

    --

    Brian

  19. Hippocrates, the author of the Hippocratic oath, states in his book, 'On Ancient Medicine", words to
    the effect that a nutritious diet is the foundation of maintaining health. Preventive health care
    for these submarine crews should be imperative to maintaining their physical, emotional, and
    intellectual health. It clearly appears to me, form the original post, that the U.S. Navy does not
    follow those necessary and requisite tenets for preventive health that Hippocrates elucidated in
    this book. The same includes adequate and nutritious food, adequate rest, and adequate exercise.

    Mr. C.V. Compton Shaw;R.N. CLA; U.S. Army;2/8th Inf.;4th. Inf.
    Div.;Republic of Vietnam 1969-1970

  20. On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:18:48 GMT, C.V. Compton Shaw <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Hippocrates, the author of the Hippocratic oath, states in his book, 'On Ancient Medicine", words
    to the effect that a nutritious diet is the foundation of maintaining health. Preventive health
    care for these submarine crews should be imperative to maintaining their physical, emotional, and
    intellectual health. It clearly appears to me, form the original post, that the U.S. Navy does not
    follow those necessary and requisite tenets for preventive health that Hippocrates elucidated in
    this book. The same includes adequate and nutritious food, adequate rest, and adequate exercise.

    Mr. C.V. Compton Shaw;R.N. CLA; U.S. Army;2/8th Inf.;4th. Inf.
    Div.;Republic of Vietnam 1969-1970

    I would disagree with your assertion relating to the USNs actions, with the caveat that I have not
    served on submarines, only surface vessels.

    All three tenets of health you describe are available on every ship. The problem lies in the choices
    of the sailors, not in the choices offered to them.

    --
    Christopher Horner

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