Cycle ban in town centre

Mark said:

Hi,

My local council is proposing to ban cycles in the town centre between
10am and 5pm. No I am not joking.

Can anyone give me some advise on the best way to oppose this idiotic
idea? i.e. What arguments are likely to sway the opinions of local
councillors?

Cheers, Mark

Is the proposal purely to ban cycles, or does the ban include anything
else? What is the extent of the proposed ban, is it the main shopping
street, all streets in the core area, or what?

--
Brian G

in message <[email hidden]>, Brian G

(') said:

Mark said:

My local council is proposing to ban cycles in the town centre between
10am and 5pm. No I am not joking.

Where are you? England, Scotland, Wales? This makes a difference. If you
can tell us which town you're referring to, so much the better.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can anyone give me some advise on the best way to oppose this idiotic
idea? i.e. What arguments are likely to sway the opinions of local
councillors?

Is the proposal purely to ban cycles, or does the ban include anything
else? What is the extent of the proposed ban, is it the main shopping
street, all streets in the core area, or what?

Is the area of the ban already a pedestrian precinct?

What political flavour is your local council?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

The Conservative Party is now dead. The corpse may still be
twitching, but resurrection is not an option - unless Satan
chucks them out of Hell as too objectionable even for him.

Mark said:

Hi, My local council is proposing to ban cycles in the town centre
between 10am and 5pm. No I am not joking.

Quoted message said:

Can anyone give me some advise on the best way to oppose this
idiotic idea? i.e. What arguments are likely to sway the opinions
of local councillors?

Point them in the direction of Cambridge. They tried it, failed
miserably, and had to do a U-turn. Sometime around 1996, I think.

Several clueful and cycle-friendly Cambridge councillors hang around
in news:cam.misc, you could ask for their experiences there.

A lot depends on how many cyclists there are in the town. Politicians
know, though will never publicly admit, that minorities are easy to
demonise, persecute and ignore, and that civil disobedience works,
whether it is justified or not (e.g speed limits and cameras).

Which party controls the council? Does the national party have a
postive policy on cycling?

--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/
"Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
but rather when there is nothing left to take away."
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Brian G

(') said:

Mark said:

My local council is proposing to ban cycles in the town centre between
10am and 5pm. No I am not joking.

Where are you? England, Scotland, Wales? This makes a difference. If you
can tell us which town you're referring to, so much the better.

Cheltenham, England.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can anyone give me some advise on the best way to oppose this idiotic
idea? i.e. What arguments are likely to sway the opinions of local
councillors?

Is the proposal purely to ban cycles, or does the ban include anything
else? What is the extent of the proposed ban, is it the main shopping
street, all streets in the core area, or what?

The proposed ban appears to be just cycles. Delivery vans will still
be allowed as far as I can tell.

The proposed ban would be on pedestrianised areas of the main shopping
streets. At present cycles are allowed in all but a small part of the
pedestrian area. These streets have a strange arrangement, with parts
road (with motor traffic) and parts pedestrian.

Quoted message said:

Is the area of the ban already a pedestrian precinct?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

What political flavour is your local council?

The Torys have overall control, but I think the LD have the largest
number of seats.

See http://makeashorterlink.com/?A1B621BBD

Mark

In article said:

Point them in the direction of Cambridge. They tried it, failed
miserably, and had to do a U-turn. Sometime around 1996, I think.

Ban was imposed in 1993, and lifted in 2005 (experimentally, for
18 months, which aren't up yet - since they kept the ban in the first
place on the grounds that it's "experimental" introduction wasn't a
conclusive failure, it's not totally clear that it won't be reintroduced
without any good reason).
http://www.camcycle.org.uk/campaigning/issues/cyclingban/

IIRC a public enquiry found that the ban was unreasonable, but not so
unreasonable as to be unlawful ("Wednesbury unreasonable"😉.

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Brian G

(') said:

Mark wrote:
> My local council is proposing to ban cycles in the town centre between
> 10am and 5pm. No I am not joking.

Where are you? England, Scotland, Wales? This makes a difference. If you
can tell us which town you're referring to, so much the better.

Cheltenham, England.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Can anyone give me some advise on the best way to oppose this idiotic
> idea? i.e. What arguments are likely to sway the opinions of local
> councillors?

Is the proposal purely to ban cycles, or does the ban include anything
else? What is the extent of the proposed ban, is it the main shopping
street, all streets in the core area, or what?

The proposed ban appears to be just cycles. Delivery vans will still
be allowed as far as I can tell.

The proposed ban would be on pedestrianised areas of the main shopping
streets. At present cycles are allowed in all but a small part of the
pedestrian area. These streets have a strange arrangement, with parts
road (with motor traffic) and parts pedestrian.

Quoted message said:

Is the area of the ban already a pedestrian precinct?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

What political flavour is your local council?

The Torys have overall control, but I think the LD have the largest
number of seats.

See http://makeashorterlink.com/?A1B621BBD

I know Cheltenham very well, lived there for three years. Are you talking
about the pedestrianised areas, which IMO is reasonably fair (e.g. near
M&S). I presume you'll still be able to cycle on the roads? e.g. Pittville
Street. The part of High Street just as you get off Cambray Place (near HMV)
is a difficult place to cycle due to peds not looking, but that should be no
reason to ban there.

I'm just looking through the http://www.cyclecheltenham.org.uk/index.html
website and I see there is a cycle map. Unfortunately can't see how to
download it though.

I'd consider picketing the "national CCN/CTC cycle planning conference on
Saturday 25th November 2006", or just join the Cheltenham Cycle Campaign and
help out.

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

My local council is proposing to ban cycles in the town centre between
10am and 5pm. No I am not joking.

It all depends on what you define as the town centre....
Having read the rest of the thread, a pedestrianised zone seems fair game
for a cycling ban to me. I wouldn't consider trying to cycle through the
pedestrianised zones in Leeds. There's too many bipedal obstacles.

Quoted message said:

this idiotic idea?

An opinion rather than a fact.

Quoted message said:

i.e. What arguments are likely to sway the opinions of local
councillors?

The local councillors might well have given the matter full consideration
and voted it in.

On the occasions when I do cycle into Leeds I am happy to push my bike
through the pedestrianised areas and to be honest, I'm not even sure if
cycling is banned. It just seems to be the sensible thing to do with so many
pedestrials randomly changing direction and speed as they go about their
business.

"vernon levy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

My local council is proposing to ban cycles in the town centre between
10am and 5pm. No I am not joking.

It all depends on what you define as the town centre....
Having read the rest of the thread, a pedestrianised zone seems fair game
for a cycling ban to me. I wouldn't consider trying to cycle through the
pedestrianised zones in Leeds. There's too many bipedal obstacles.

Quoted message said:

this idiotic idea?

An opinion rather than a fact.

Quoted message said:

i.e. What arguments are likely to sway the opinions of local
councillors?

The local councillors might well have given the matter full consideration
and voted it in.

On the occasions when I do cycle into Leeds I am happy to push my bike
through the pedestrianised areas and to be honest, I'm not even sure if
cycling is banned. It just seems to be the sensible thing to do with so
many pedestrials randomly changing direction and speed as they go about
their business.

I get off my bike in the "ped" areas of Kingston-upon-Thames, except in the
market place where it is, in fact, part of the national cycle route. As far
as I can see in KuT outside the Bentalls centre (i.e. from Barclays bank to
the security gate outside Bentalls) this is the only area with a no cycling
sign, and the rest of the high street (down to Burger King) is actually not
under a cycle ban. However it really should as anyone who cycles along there
is just being a twunt.

I haven't really done any proper research on this observation, but have only
seen that small square where the no cycling signs are, and as delivery
lorries etc are allowed along the other part (securicor go there any time
they like), I guess that it would be difficult to ban cycles when xx-ton
vehicles are allowed?

Mark said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Brian G

(') said:

Mark wrote:
> My local council is proposing to ban cycles in the town centre between
> 10am and 5pm. No I am not joking.

Where are you? England, Scotland, Wales? This makes a difference. If you
can tell us which town you're referring to, so much the better.

Cheltenham, England.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Can anyone give me some advise on the best way to oppose this idiotic
> idea? i.e. What arguments are likely to sway the opinions of local
> councillors?

Is the proposal purely to ban cycles, or does the ban include anything
else? What is the extent of the proposed ban, is it the main shopping
street, all streets in the core area, or what?

The proposed ban appears to be just cycles. Delivery vans will still
be allowed as far as I can tell.

Ask about delivery cycles.

Alan J. Wylie wrote on 09/09/2006 16:00 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Point them in the direction of Cambridge. They tried it, failed
miserably, and had to do a U-turn. Sometime around 1996, I think.

No, Cambridge has had a cycle ban in the centre (which to be honest I
agree with) and has recently dropped it on a trial basis to see if
cyclists can behave responsibly there.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

My local council is proposing to ban cycles in the town centre between
10am and 5pm. No I am not joking.

Can anyone give me some advise on the best way to oppose this idiotic
idea? i.e. What arguments are likely to sway the opinions of local
councillors?

Cheers, Mark

This was considered for the town where I work.

It was rejected because it is difficult to enforce, it sort of goes against
the LTP desire to encourage cycling, the police will not enforce it and,
perhaps most importantly, there is no record of any cycling / pedestrian
accidents in the High Street where the ban was proposed.

I would suggest contacting the local Council's cycling officer and seeking
their views. If it is a politically motivated thing then you may find that
it is already a done deal. Councillors have a vested interest in pandering
to the majority view and that is generally that cyclists and pedestrians
don't mix.

Matt

Tony Raven said:

Alan J. Wylie wrote on 09/09/2006 16:00 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Point them in the direction of Cambridge. They tried it, failed
miserably, and had to do a U-turn. Sometime around 1996, I think.

Quoted message said:

No, Cambridge has had a cycle ban in the centre (which to be honest
I agree with) and has recently dropped it on a trial basis to see if
cyclists can behave responsibly there.

It wasn't the tourist centre one that I was vaguely recalling, a bit
of googling turns up this:

http://www.iankitching.me.uk/history/cam/old/fitzroy-ban.html

Burleigh Street/Fitzroy Street run through the area 1km east of the
centre that used to be known as the "Kite", full of interesting small
shops (mmmm, Waffles), before it was bulldozed and turned into yet
another shopping mall (Grafton Centre).

It also seems that there was conflict between the City Council
(left-leaning, Lib-Dem these days, don't know what it was then) and
the County (Conservative).

--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/
"Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
but rather when there is nothing left to take away."
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Mark said:

Hi,

My local council is proposing to ban cycles in the town centre between
10am and 5pm. No I am not joking.

Can anyone give me some advise on the best way to oppose this idiotic
idea? i.e. What arguments are likely to sway the opinions of local
councillors?

If it's a 'pedestrianised' area, and there are yobbos disturbing the
old biddies, that could be reasonable. What's the official line on
skateboards, which are a whole lot scarier than bikes, and lack the
utilitarian good reasons to be there?

Make sure that if it happens, it becomes "no cycling" rather than
"no cycles". Point out that the cyclist doesn't have the same option
as the driver to leave whatever luggage they may be carrying reasonably
securely locked up, and the status of the bike when being walked
(both the need for it and the potential nuisance of it)
is more akin to a pram than a car.

--
not me guv

Mark said:

Hi,

My local council is proposing to ban cycles in the town centre between
10am and 5pm. No I am not joking.

Is it pedestrianised? If so, that's de rigeur and could save some nasty
accidents. The chavs who cycle through Swindon town centre are a menace
and have hit several people.

Alan J. Wylie wrote on 09/09/2006 18:16 +0100:

Quoted message said:

It wasn't the tourist centre one that I was vaguely recalling, a bit
of googling turns up this:

http://www.iankitching.me.uk/history/cam/old/fitzroy-ban.html

Burleigh Street/Fitzroy Street run through the area 1km east of the
centre that used to be known as the "Kite", full of interesting small
shops (mmmm, Waffles), before it was bulldozed and turned into yet
another shopping mall (Grafton Centre).

Was walking there just this afternoon and AFAIK they are still
pedestrian streets with no cycling on them between 10am and 4pm. As
they should be.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Brian G

(') said:

Mark wrote:
> My local council is proposing to ban cycles in the town centre between
> 10am and 5pm. No I am not joking.

Where are you? England, Scotland, Wales? This makes a difference. If you
can tell us which town you're referring to, so much the better.

Cheltenham, England.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Can anyone give me some advise on the best way to oppose this idiotic
> idea? i.e. What arguments are likely to sway the opinions of local
> councillors?

Is the proposal purely to ban cycles, or does the ban include anything
else? What is the extent of the proposed ban, is it the main shopping
street, all streets in the core area, or what?

The proposed ban appears to be just cycles. Delivery vans will still
be allowed as far as I can tell.

The proposed ban would be on pedestrianised areas of the main shopping
streets. At present cycles are allowed in all but a small part of the
pedestrian area. These streets have a strange arrangement, with parts
road (with motor traffic) and parts pedestrian.

Like other people here, I would not contest a cycling ban in a reasonably
small pedestrian area, provided that it is permitted to wheel a bike
through the area, provided the area is not on any marked or recommended
cycle route, and provided there are convenient alternative routes where
cycling is permitted.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is the area of the ban already a pedestrian precinct?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

What political flavour is your local council?

The Torys have overall control,

Then you're shafted. I do know of one reasonable Tory councillor - he posts
to this group - but on the whole they pander to lowest common denominator
populism when they aren't pushing their own narrow sectional interests. Go
and work for whatever party is most capable of damaging them, and get them
booted out onto the scrapheap of history where they belong.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This .sig subject to change without notice ]

"vernon levy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

My local council is proposing to ban cycles in the town centre between
10am and 5pm. No I am not joking.

It all depends on what you define as the town centre....
Having read the rest of the thread, a pedestrianised zone seems fair game
for a cycling ban to me. I wouldn't consider trying to cycle through the
pedestrianised zones in Leeds. There's too many bipedal obstacles.

Quoted message said:

this idiotic idea?

An opinion rather than a fact.

Quoted message said:

i.e. What arguments are likely to sway the opinions of local
councillors?

The local councillors might well have given the matter full consideration
and voted it in.

On the occasions when I do cycle into Leeds I am happy to push my bike
through the pedestrianised areas and to be honest, I'm not even sure if
cycling is banned. It just seems to be the sensible thing to do with so
many pedestrials randomly changing direction and speed as they go about
their business.

And yet, and yet, when you go to Gent, you find exactly those sorts of
pedestrianised areas with cycles whizzing through, and nobody batting an
eyelid.

So much comes down to cultural habit and expectations.

Alan

Alan Moffatt said:

And yet, and yet, when you go to Gent, you find exactly those sorts of
pedestrianised areas with cycles whizzing through, and nobody batting an
eyelid.

So much comes down to cultural habit and expectations.

The same is true of Antwerp. Nice wide pedestrianised areas and peds that
expect cyclists, who generally give people plenty of room. Much nicer than
cycle couriers riding on the pavement in the square mile.
--
Chris

Alan Moffatt wrote on 09/09/2006 19:38 +0100:

Quoted message said:

And yet, and yet, when you go to Gent, you find exactly those sorts of
pedestrianised areas with cycles whizzing through, and nobody batting an
eyelid.

Big difference IMO is that in Ghent etc you find what are called rolling
pedestrians - people cycling at a leisurely pace and giving room to
pedestrians. In Cambridge the cyclists in the pedestrian areas treat
the pedestrians as a high speed slalom course.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci