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Cycle paths are not designed for commuters

Started by Tom Crispin · · Last activity · 25 posts · 1,484 views

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UK and Europe
Published
16 May 2007
Last activity
27 May 2007
Original author
Tom Crispin
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25
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  1. Quoted message said:
    Matt B 'matt.bourke'@nospam.london.com said:

    Marc Brett wrote:
    Didn't policy change though about 10-15 years ago?

    Not in favour of bikes, no, though it's easy to see why non-cyclists
    might think so.

    There is no doubt that it changed, and there is no doubt that the
    /intent/ was to favour bicycles over private cars. I accept that the
    policies are ill-considered and ill-conceived - and as such may not
    /actually/ be delivering what was imagined. That doesn't alter the
    validity of my point.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ... Most places since
    then have proclaimed holy war against the private car.

    For very small values of "most".

    "Most" as in most towns and cities centres are painting solid white
    lines at every opportunity. They may not be as good for bicycles as
    intended, but they are certainly bad for cars, as intended.

    Quoted message said:

    I think you are overstating the
    case, too, and I work in Edinburgh which has been in the forefront of
    this movement. To describe it as a holy war isn't helpful or accurate-
    there is no shortage of private cars in Edinburgh, despite the small
    shifts of policy that aim to discourage unnecessary journeys.

    Private car users are being squeezed at every opportunity, there is no
    denying that - they are resilient though ;-)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ... Buses and
    bicycles have been handed road space on a plate. Roads have been
    closed-off, except for bus and bicycle access, in many places. Bus and
    cycle lanes have consumed more and more road space.

    Some cities have tried to address congestion by favouring buses over
    private cars. Any "benefit" cyclists have accrued has been a side
    effect of this. Sharing a bus lane involves dodging 20 ton vehicles
    that stop and start frequently and whose drivers are often quite
    protective of "their" territory. It's no picnic and one is very aware
    that being hit by a car is likely to result in somersaulting over a
    bonnet, whereas being hit by a bus will put you onto the road
    underneath it...

    Many towns have no room for dedicated bus lanes, but they /do/ provide
    dedicated cycle lanes.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    .... Everywhere you look
    "Toucan Crossings", with their inherent inefficiencies, as far as motor
    traffic is concerned, are being installed for the benefit of cyclists.

    Everywhere? I think not. Where these have been installed (ie mostly
    city centres, AFAICT)

    Even small villages and town suburbs are "benefiting" from these facilities/

    Quoted message said:

    it would generally not be very efficient for
    everyone to drive their own car, anyway.

    It could be if the policy was to improve the infrastructure for private
    cars rather than to sacrifice it on the anti-car altar.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Town-centre roadside parking has been reduced, and virtually eliminated
    in many places, whilst off-road car parking charges have been increased
    many fold, with an exponential increase in enforcement personnel.

    You make this sound like a bad thing. I'm not convinced it is.

    We'll agree to differ.:-) I don't support the marginalisation of /any/
    road user type.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ... At
    the same time, cycle facilities (whether you like them or not) have been
    provided, free to use, in abundance.

    I can see your point of view, and I understand why you hold it. It
    would be much appreciated if you would return the favour.

    I'm sure you hold your viewpoint in good faith, and I /do/ respect it,
    but I question whether you have thoroughly considered all the evidence. ;-)

    --
    Matt B

  2. [email hidden] said the following on 21/05/2007 15:49:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    .... Everywhere you look
    "Toucan Crossings", with their inherent inefficiencies, as far as motor
    traffic is concerned, are being installed for the benefit of cyclists.

    Everywhere? I think not. Where these have been installed (ie mostly
    city centres, AFAICT) it would generally not be very efficient for
    everyone to drive their own car, anyway.

    In Weston there is a nice shiny new pedestrian crossing with cycle-track
    approaching each side of it. Except that the cycle-track technically
    ends just a couple of yards before the lights.... Hardly cycle-friendly!

    ....and I've already been on at the council to adjust the sensors so that
    they can tell if someone is still waiting to cross! It does benefit
    motorists if peds (or cyclists) can never cross though.

    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

  3. Paul Boyd usenet.dont.work@plusnet said:

    In Weston there is a nice shiny new pedestrian crossing with cycle-track
    approaching each side of it. Except that the cycle-track technically
    ends just a couple of yards before the lights.... Hardly cycle-friendly!

    Where's that one then? I got really annoyed with that dodge when I
    lived in King's Lynn, where cycle tracks and paths End Of Route and
    Cyclists Dimount either side of minor roads, apparently just so that
    cyclists don't get priority on a crossing.
    http://mjr.towers.org.uk/proj/cyclynn/#stndis

    Then on one later development, Norfolk County Council progressed to
    making the cycle path give way to every bloody driveway - so cyclists
    were expected to look 170 degrees to their right to look for cars -
    in a blatent flouting of national guidelines.

    I think I've seen that in Cambridge so it's probably on camcycle.org.uk

    I really want to avoid North Somerset Council starting on this bad 'path'.
    The on-road lanes here seem pretty good and two or three of the tracks
    seem good too, but the older tracks are not well-maintained and much of
    the recent stuff is absolutely shockingly bad.

    Regards,
    --
    MJ Ray - see/vidu http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
    Experienced webmaster-developers for hire http://www.ttllp.co.uk/
    Also: statistician, sysadmin, online shop builder, workers co-op.
    Writing on koha, debian, sat TV, Kewstoke http://mjr.towers.org.uk/

  4. MJ Ray said the following on 22/05/2007 11:28:

    Quoted message said:

    Where's that one then? I got really annoyed with that dodge when I
    lived in King's Lynn, where cycle tracks and paths End Of Route and
    Cyclists Dimount either side of minor roads

    This is the new crossing for the "Asda junction" onto Herluin Way.
    However you look at it, it's a huge improvement over the mad dash
    situation that was there before. There aren't any "Cyclists dismount"
    signs, but there's the dashed white line at the end of the cyclepath a
    couple of yards back from the lights. I think the intention is actually
    as a give-way, but the appearance is 'end of cyclepath'. It is
    ambiguous! I haven't cycled it yet, by as a ped I pressed the button on
    the "ped side", the little red light came on, I stood and waited. And
    stood and waited. And thought, "hang on, the lights are repeating the
    cycle". Then I noticed my little red light had gone out! The council
    are supposed to be sending someone to adjust the sensor so that it
    covers the whole path....

    Quoted message said:

    I really want to avoid North Somerset Council starting on this bad 'path'.
    The on-road lanes here seem pretty good and two or three of the tracks
    seem good too, but the older tracks are not well-maintained and much of
    the recent stuff is absolutely shockingly bad.

    Having moved here from Bristol about five years ago, the novelty of
    having *any* cyclepath hasn't worn off yet :-)

    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

  5. In article <[email hidden]>, Matt B <"matt.bourke"@n
    ospam.london.com> writes

    Quoted message said:

    Didn't policy change though about 10-15 years ago? Most places since
    then have proclaimed holy war against the private car. Buses and
    bicycles have been handed road space on a plate. Roads have been
    closed-off, except for bus and bicycle access, in many places. Bus and
    cycle lanes have consumed more and more road space.

    10-15 years ago, in my part of the world, white lines and cycle icons
    were painted with abundance, usually only in 100 yard stretches where it
    wouldn't really help cyclists. Many theories were muted, until it was
    rumoured the local council had a quota of so many miles/kms/meters of
    cycle lanes to add. Further theories suggested they were only put down
    where cars were often parked on main roads where they couldn't justify
    yellow lines (outside chip shops for example). Not a case of helping
    cyclists, but making life difficult for motorists.

    Quoted message said:

    Everywhere you look
    "Toucan Crossings", with their inherent inefficiencies, as far as motor
    traffic is concerned, are being installed for the benefit of cyclists.
    Town-centre roadside parking has been reduced, and virtually eliminated
    in many places, whilst off-road car parking charges have been increased
    many fold, with an exponential increase in enforcement personnel. At
    the same time, cycle facilities (whether you like them or not) have been
    provided, free to use, in abundance.

    Cars will always be an easy target, ticketing them is easy because
    they're all (mostly anyway) registered to individuals. Raising money
    from parking tickets/congestion charges is dead easy, doesn't require
    much effort and if you make finding parking spaces harder, gives you
    more opportunities to find cars parked where they shouldn't.

    Cycle 'facilities' require nothing more than a few white lines, a few
    signs and the odd Sheffield stand. It ticks a box in the council
    environment/transport policy, which is usually the aim.

    Shared pedestrian/cycle lanes are accidents waiting to happen, despite
    the signs most pedestrians are often surprised by cyclists, bus shelters
    reduce the width to that just wider than handlebar width, and there are
    blind corners at junctions where cyclists can't see traffic turning
    across their path and motorists can't see the cyclists either.

    --
    John

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