Cycling Awards

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Simon Mason, Jun 13, 2003.

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  1. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    Interesting to read in the CTC Cycle Digest that our council's award was for increasing the number
    of cyclists at the same time as reducing the casualty figures. This seems to run counter to the
    claim that *all* council led cycling facilities are at best useless and at worst dangerous.

    There were people on this NG a few years ago that ranted 'till they were blue in the face saying
    that since Milton Keynes' experiment was rubbish then that was that; no cycling schemes can ever be
    any good. To those people, I don't suppose an apology is now due? ;-)

    http://www.ctc.org.uk/resources/Campaigns/CycleDigestSummer36.pdf

    --
    Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net
     
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  2. Arthur Clune

    Arthur Clune Guest

    Simon Mason <[email protected]> wrote:
    : Interesting to read in the CTC Cycle Digest that our council's award was for increasing the number
    : of cyclists at the same time as reducing the casualty figures. This seems to run counter to the
    : claim that *all* council led cycling facilities are at best useless and at worst dangerous.

    York has done the same.

    Arthur

    --
    Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org Power is delightful. Absolute power is absolutely delightful -
    Lord Lester
     
  3. Not Me

    Not Me Guest

    Simon Mason deftly scribbled:

    > Interesting to read in the CTC Cycle Digest that our council's award was for increasing the number
    > of cyclists at the same time as reducing the casualty figures.

    Good for them .. ;)

    > This seems to run counter to the claim that *all* council led cycling facilities are at best
    > useless and at worst dangerous.

    Heheheh, generalisations are *never* completely right ..

    > There were people on this NG a few years ago that ranted 'till they were blue in the face saying
    > that since Milton Keynes' experiment was rubbish then that was that; no cycling schemes can ever
    > be any good.

    I dunno what the MK experiment was, but even if it failed it deserved some merit, perhaps, for at
    least trying something. Which has to be better than nothing, surely.

    > To those people, I don't suppose an apology is now due? ;-)
    > http://www.ctc.org.uk/resources/Campaigns/CycleDigestSummer36.pdf

    Good read, thanks. I might even join the CTC .. ;)

    --
    Digweed
     
  4. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Not me, someone else wrote:
    > I dunno what the MK experiment was, but even if it failed it deserved some merit, perhaps, for at
    > least trying something.

    I never saw any documentation on exactly what it was, but I suppose it might have something to do
    with the large number of cyclepaths which allow you to get to most places in MK without having to
    cycle on or even cross a road.

    I would ask exactly why this is considered a failure?

    --
    Jim Price

    http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

    Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
     
  5. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    "Not me, someone else" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Heheheh, generalisations are *never* completely right ..

    What, none of them?

    --
    Guy
    ===
    I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
    about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
    wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.
     
  6. Not Me

    Not Me Guest

    Just zis Guy, you know? deftly scribbled:

    > "Not me, someone else" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >> Heheheh, generalisations are *never* completely right ..
    >
    >
    > What, none of them?

    You see my point then :)

    --
    Digweed
     
  7. Not Me

    Not Me Guest

    Jim Price deftly scribbled:

    > Not me, someone else wrote:
    >> I dunno what the MK experiment was, but even if it failed it deserved some merit, perhaps, for at
    >> least trying something.
    >
    > I never saw any documentation on exactly what it was, but I suppose it might have something to do
    > with the large number of cyclepaths which allow you to get to most places in MK without having to
    > cycle on or even cross a road.

    Maybe the good folk of MK simply didn't like bicycles ..

    > I would ask exactly why this is considered a failure?

    I remember driving through MK one night. Bleak and desolate would sum it up pretty well, so perhaps
    if the same were true of the cycle ways and paths then maybe they were either unsafe or not actually
    leading anywhere.

    IIRC, as you now seem to have jogged my memory, the paths went between and around housing areas, or
    suburbs, but not from suburb to shopping centre, or Train Station etc. You could visit loads of
    people, but not get anything, or very little, constructive done by using them. I may be wrong on
    this though .. ;)

    --
    Digweed
     
  8. David Marsh

    David Marsh Guest

    [Interleaved quoting: please read to end for all comments] Simon Mason wrote in uk.rec.cycling:
    about: Cycling Awards

    > Interesting to read in the CTC Cycle Digest that our council's award was for increasing the number
    > of cyclists at the same time as reducing the casualty figures. This seems to run counter to the
    > claim that *all* council led cycling facilities are at best useless and at worst dangerous.

    What it means is that Hull CC employs transport engineers who [know better what they are doing |
    have more pro-cycling councillors | are less clueless | have more vociferous intelligent local cycle
    campaigners] than those employed by most LAs in the UK.

    Perhaps they can generate some nice consultancy income by going round with the Big Re-education
    Stick to the less clueful LAs?

    Also, the fact that they can easily pop over the North Sea to Rotterdam to see How Things Should Be
    Done might just have something to do with it! :)

    Congratulations, nonetheless..

    --
    David Marsh, <reply-to-email is valid at time of writing> | Glasgow, Scotland. [en, fr, (de)] |
    http://web.viewport.co.uk/ | Learn usenet and netiquette: read news:news.announce.newusers |
    >I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<
    begin Once upon a time, there was a badly-broken newsreader program...
     
  9. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

  10. Digweed writted:

    > I remember driving through MK one night. Bleak and desolate would sum it up pretty well, so
    > perhaps if the same were true of the cycle ways and paths then maybe they were either unsafe or
    > not actually leading anywhere.

    My chum Ian, who works there, has frequently to rotate the tyres on his van from side to side, as
    the left side tyres wear much faster because of all the roundabouts...

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    ===========================================================
     
  11. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    "David Marsh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > Also, the fact that they can easily pop over the North Sea to Rotterdam to see How Things Should
    > Be Done might just have something to do with it! :)

    Oh no, not you again with your tedious anti-MS Outlook "virus" ;-)

    --
    Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net
     
  12. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    "Jim Price" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Not me, someone else wrote:

    > > I dunno what the MK experiment was, but even if it failed it deserved
    some
    > > merit, perhaps, for at least trying something.

    > I would ask exactly why this is considered a failure?

    The reasons I know of are:

    1. Cycleways are less safe than roads, introducing all sorts of dangers like surface problems,
    debris, conflict with pedestrians, underpasses which are ideal ambush points etc.

    2. The design of the city of M-K is such that it is much less dense than the generality of cities in
    the UK, making the average utility journey longer.

    3. The road layout encourages fast traffic and includes many roundabouts, which are particularly
    dangerous for cyclists.

    And not forgetting 4: it's a horrible place.

    --
    Guy
    ===
    I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
    about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
    wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.
     
  13. John B

    John B Guest

    "Not me, someone else" wrote:

    > I remember driving through MK one night. Bleak and desolate would sum it up pretty well, so
    > perhaps if the same were true of the cycle ways and paths then maybe they were either unsafe or
    > not actually leading anywhere.
    >
    > IIRC, as you now seem to have jogged my memory, the paths went between and around housing areas,
    > or suburbs, but not from suburb to shopping centre, or Train Station etc.

    My limited experience of MK is that the routes _do_ go to the Railway Station and Shopping Centre,
    although I have found their numbering rather difficult to follow.

    It is certainly possible to go from the Station to the MK Bowl without even crossing a road, a
    pleasant route I do several times a year. It's brilliant as I can even take my youngest to the
    Bowl's circuit to go cycle racing.

    The hard bit is the train journey, but then when isn't it.

    John B
     
  14. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Tony Raven wrote:
    > In news:[email protected], Jim Price <[email protected]> typed:
    >
    >>I would ask exactly why this is considered a failure?
    >
    >
    > Visit the two links from http://www.lesberries.co.uk/cycling/infra/infra.html

    Fascinating, and not a little disconcerting - especially (in a cycling awards thread):

    "For the past two years it has not been possible to declare a winner in the engineering category of
    the National Cycling Awards."

    Sadly, there seems to be little being proposed as solutions to the many problems. So, rather than
    just saying that Hull and Rotterdam are wonderful, can anyone say what exactly it is that makes
    them so? (I've not been to either, but I have been to MK, and frankly thought it was a lot better
    than London!).

    --
    Jim Price

    http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com

    Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.
     
  15. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    Jim Price <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > Sadly, there seems to be little being proposed as solutions to the many problems. So, rather than
    > just saying that Hull and Rotterdam are wonderful, can anyone say what exactly it is that makes
    > them so? (I've not been to either, but I have been to MK, and frankly thought it was a lot better
    > than London!).

    I asked our council cycling officer and he said the CTC committee were particularly impressed by
    the bravery of the council in converting dual carriageways into roads like this.

    http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.mason/brickq.jpg

    Simon
     
  16. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    Simon Mason wrote:

    > I asked our council cycling officer and he said the CTC committee were particularly impressed by
    > the bravery of the council in converting dual carriageways into roads like this.
    >
    >http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.mason/brickq.jpg

    That's pretty good. Far better than the few similar ones in Greenwich which have no hashed zone
    between the cycle lane and the parked cars.
    --
    remove remove to reply
     
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