Cycling hard and staying fat...

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I've read several posts in the past from contributors complaining/
reporting that despite cycling tremendous distances they haven't lost
any weight.

This article offers an interesting take on why this may be.

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

I don't know enough about the history of exercise to know whether or
not this is a biased take on things, but the stuff on the interaction
of LPL and insulin sounds very interesting.

Looks like I'll have to do fewer pies per mile :-(

Quoted message said:

I've read several posts in the past from contributors complaining/
reporting that despite cycling tremendous distances they haven't lost
any weight.

This article offers an interesting take on why this may be.

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

I don't know enough about the history of exercise to know whether or
not this is a biased take on things, but the stuff on the interaction
of LPL and insulin sounds very interesting.

"The one thing that might be said with certainty about exercise is that
it tends to make us hungry. Maybe not immediately, but eventually. Burn
more calories and the odds are very good that we'll consume more as
well. And this simple fact alone might explain both the scientific
evidence and a nation's worth of sorely disappointing anecdotal experience."

I would have thought this would have been a primary thing to look at in
any investigation - surely?! IME - exercise and eat when hungry - steady
weight with increasing fitness, exercise and keep off the extra food -
weight loss, no exercise - gain weight. It seems pretty obvious to me.I
can accurately predict my weight loss/gain if I track my calorific
intake and expenditure - calories in=calories out. The main problem i
see in people who are trying to lose weight is a) assuming they are
doing more exercise than they are and b) assuming they are eating less
than they really are. Both screw up results and the general public is
useless at judging quantity, im fairly sure lol.

Quoted message said:

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

Interesting article, I found it well argued.

IIRC cutting out simple carbohydrates from the diet whilst maintaining
the overall level of calory intake was the main principle behind the
Atkins diet. IIRC at the time when the Atkins diet was the talk of the
town there was a lot of criticism of it from the scientific community
that attacked the principle. This article suggests the same approach as
a possibly more effective way to weight loss than exercise.

--
Membrane

Membrane said:

Quoted message said:

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

Interesting article, I found it well argued.

IIRC cutting out simple carbohydrates from the diet whilst maintaining
the overall level of calory intake was the main principle behind the
Atkins diet. IIRC at the time when the Atkins diet was the talk of the
town there was a lot of criticism of it from the scientific community
that attacked the principle. This article suggests the same approach as
a possibly more effective way to weight loss than exercise.

What I recall was that the scientific community didn't argue (in
general) that the Atkins diet *worked*, but believed that the levels
of protein it suggested you eat were distinctly unhealthy. The GI
diet is prehaps closer to what the article author is suggesting.

Phil

--
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key: http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt

Membrane said:

Quoted message said:

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

Interesting article, I found it well argued.

It seemed to me to be essentially saying that you cant expect exercise
to fix everything because you naturally get more hungry and that
different people react slightly differently to different types of energy
sources. To me, this seems obvious but still falls within the basic
equation "calories in-calories out=stored fat" to the greatest degree?

Quoted message said:

I've read several posts in the past from contributors complaining/
reporting that despite cycling tremendous distances they haven't lost
any weight.

This article offers an interesting take on why this may be.

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

I don't know enough about the history of exercise to know whether or
not this is a biased take on things, but the stuff on the interaction
of LPL and insulin sounds very interesting.

I have always been one of the "lean" types; I tend to run at a very
low level of body fat (also at a very low level of mass in general!).
At the age of 22, I spent 3 months on a charity expedition in Chile;
we were on what was estimated to be a 4000 kCal/day diet, and I was
still losing body fat. My weight remained approximately constant as I
was gaining muscle.

Of course, I then spent 3 weeks on holiday, eating lots of steak, and
put on 21lbs in those 21 days!

In article <[email hidden]>, Henry
Lockwood <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On 29 Oct, 16:10, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

At the age of 22, I spent 3 months on a charity expedition in Chile;
we were on what was estimated to be a 4000 kCal/day diet, and I was
still losing body fat. My weight remained approximately constant as I
was gaining muscle.

As a student about that age I was taking in about 6,000 kCal/day and
maintaining a weight of 150lb.
--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

Henry Lockwood said:

Quoted message said:

I've read several posts in the past from contributors complaining/
reporting that despite cycling tremendous distances they haven't lost
any weight.

Quoted message said:

This article offers an interesting take on why this may be.

Quoted message said:

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

Quoted message said:

I don't know enough about the history of exercise to know whether or
not this is a biased take on things, but the stuff on the interaction
of LPL and insulin sounds very interesting.

I have always been one of the "lean" types; I tend to run at a very
low level of body fat (also at a very low level of mass in general!).
At the age of 22, I spent 3 months on a charity expedition in Chile;
we were on what was estimated to be a 4000 kCal/day diet, and I was
still losing body fat. My weight remained approximately constant as I
was gaining muscle.

Of course, I then spent 3 weeks on holiday, eating lots of steak, and
put on 21lbs in those 21 days!

Paris-Brest-Paris caused me to lose 6kg of weight and it took me
about 2 months to regain all of that. 🙂

I've not lost much weight since I upped my cycling to 5K miles/year
but my body fat percentage has dropped by 4%. I do wonder if
these studies have failed to take into account healthy changes
in body composition associated with exercise.

Simon Proven said:

Henry Lockwood said:

On 29 Oct, 16:10, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've read several posts in the past from contributors complaining/
reporting that despite cycling tremendous distances they haven't lost
any weight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This article offers an interesting take on why this may be.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't know enough about the history of exercise to know whether or
not this is a biased take on things, but the stuff on the interaction
of LPL and insulin sounds very interesting.

Quoted message said:

I have always been one of the "lean" types; I tend to run at a very
low level of body fat (also at a very low level of mass in general!).
At the age of 22, I spent 3 months on a charity expedition in Chile;
we were on what was estimated to be a 4000 kCal/day diet, and I was
still losing body fat. My weight remained approximately constant as I
was gaining muscle.

Quoted message said:

Of course, I then spent 3 weeks on holiday, eating lots of steak, and
put on 21lbs in those 21 days!

Paris-Brest-Paris caused me to lose 6kg of weight and it took me
about 2 months to regain all of that. 🙂

I've not lost much weight since I upped my cycling to 5K miles/year
but my body fat percentage has dropped by 4%. I do wonder if
these studies have failed to take into account healthy changes
in body composition associated with exercise.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Is it possible to do PBP on just 5000 miles per year?

Quoted message said:

I've read several posts in the past from contributors complaining/
reporting that despite cycling tremendous distances they haven't lost
any weight.

This article offers an interesting take on why this may be.

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

I don't know enough about the history of exercise to know whether or
not this is a biased take on things, but the stuff on the interaction
of LPL and insulin sounds very interesting.

For a meaningful test of the effects of exercise on weight loss, those
in the tests would have to do at least 5 hours of activity per day
rather than the paltry 60 minutes indicated in the article. I don't
see how any statistically significant conclusion could be drawn from
such tests, especially considering that weight is only going to be
lost through low intensity exercise where the calories burnt per hour
are low.

This article also fails to point out that while removing simple (or
all) carbs from your diet can lead to dramatic weight loss, after a
few short years this weight all comes back, even while eating exactly
the same food.

raisethe said:

Quoted message said:

I've read several posts in the past from contributors complaining/
reporting that despite cycling tremendous distances they haven't lost
any weight.

This article offers an interesting take on why this may be.

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

I don't know enough about the history of exercise to know whether or
not this is a biased take on things, but the stuff on the interaction
of LPL and insulin sounds very interesting.

For a meaningful test of the effects of exercise on weight loss, those
in the tests would have to do at least 5 hours of activity per day
rather than the paltry 60 minutes indicated in the article.

Why? If you are recommending people take 60 minutes exercise it would
seem this is the correct duration to test.

Quoted message said:

I don't
see how any statistically significant conclusion could be drawn from
such tests,

The same way statistically significant conclusions are drawn from any
other test.

Quoted message said:

especially considering that weight is only going to be
lost through low intensity exercise where the calories burnt per hour
are low.

If you already know the results of tests there is no need to do them in
the first place.

Quoted message said:

This article also fails to point out that while removing simple (or
all) carbs from your diet can lead to dramatic weight loss, after a
few short years this weight all comes back, even while eating exactly
the same food.

How do you know this?

Quoted message said:

I've read several posts in the past from contributors complaining/
reporting that despite cycling tremendous distances they haven't lost
any weight.

This article offers an interesting take on why this may be.

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

I don't know enough about the history of exercise to know whether or
not this is a biased take on things, but the stuff on the interaction
of LPL and insulin sounds very interesting.

Since so much of the energy demand for our bodies is to maintain body
temperature I have often wondered if wearing less and turning the
heating down would help. I would imagine that any increase in fat as
insulation would be better distributed than the normal energy storage areas.
Is this likely?

Roger Thorpe

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:17:24 +0000

Roger Thorpe said:

Since so much of the energy demand for our bodies is to maintain body
temperature I have often wondered if wearing less and turning the
heating down would help. I would imagine that any increase in fat as
insulation would be better distributed than the normal energy storage
areas. Is this likely?

Unlikely.

I don't use heating[1], and feel less than comfortable when I go into
a heated place. And I wear less warm clothing than most people.
I have a good layer of natural organic insulation which is mostly
in the paunch. But mostly, I just keep the circulation going.
The basic principle: I'm warm-blooded, therefore I regulate my
own body temperature provided I remain healthy.

If anyone wants the tip on how to stay comfortable through the
English winter without heating, just keep the window open!
There's nothing worse than slightly stale, stuffy air for
shutting down the healthy circulation, which both makes you feel
cold and breaches your natural defences against whatever bugs may
be around.

[1] Last time I wanted it was that cold snap at the end of Feb.
2005, and that's 'cos I had a bout of 'flu that was far and away
the worst I've had in my life[2]. That's when I discovered the
heating in my flat didn't work.

[2] I picked it up at choir: they'd closed the bloody windows.

--
not me guv

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger Thorpe
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Since so much of the energy demand for our bodies is to maintain body
temperature I have often wondered if wearing less and turning the
heating down would help. I would imagine that any increase in fat as
insulation would be better distributed than the normal energy storage areas.
Is this likely?

I thought that if you lived in a cold environment you were more likely
to lay down fat as insulation.

Nick said:

Quoted message said:

For a meaningful test of the effects of exercise on weight loss, those
in the tests would have to do at least 5 hours of activity per day
rather than the paltry 60 minutes indicated in the article.

Why?

The aim is to test if exercise and weight loss are linked. 60 minutes
per diem is inadequate.

Quoted message said:

How do you know this?-

Personal experience. Do you know different?

raisethe said:

Simon Proven said:

On Oct 30, 9:32 am, Henry Lockwood <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 29 Oct, 16:10, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I've read several posts in the past from contributors complaining/
> reporting that despite cycling tremendous distances they haven't lost
> any weight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> This article offers an interesting take on why this may be.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I don't know enough about the history of exercise to know whether or
> not this is a biased take on things, but the stuff on the interaction
> of LPL and insulin sounds very interesting.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have always been one of the "lean" types; I tend to run at a very
low level of body fat (also at a very low level of mass in general!).
At the age of 22, I spent 3 months on a charity expedition in Chile;
we were on what was estimated to be a 4000 kCal/day diet, and I was
still losing body fat. My weight remained approximately constant as I
was gaining muscle.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course, I then spent 3 weeks on holiday, eating lots of steak, and
put on 21lbs in those 21 days!

Quoted message said:

Paris-Brest-Paris caused me to lose 6kg of weight and it took me
about 2 months to regain all of that. 🙂

Quoted message said:

I've not lost much weight since I upped my cycling to 5K miles/year
but my body fat percentage has dropped by 4%. I do wonder if
these studies have failed to take into account healthy changes
in body composition associated with exercise.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Is it possible to do PBP on just 5000 miles per year?

Well, yes!

I did 5,000 miles last year. This year I've qualified for and ridden
PBP
and I've done about 5,000km - 3125 miles - in Audax events of 200km+
and probably no more than 2,000 miles of other cycling.

The secret is being used to the long distances. And coping with the
sleep deprivation - if I'd have been faster I'd have got more than
2h30
sleep!

Simon Proven said:

raisethe said:

On 30 Oct, 18:52, Simon Proven <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Oct 30, 9:32 am, Henry Lockwood <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On 29 Oct, 16:10, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > I've read several posts in the past from contributors complaining/
> > reporting that despite cycling tremendous distances they haven't lost
> > any weight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > This article offers an interesting take on why this may be.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > I don't know enough about the history of exercise to know whether or
> > not this is a biased take on things, but the stuff on the interaction
> > of LPL and insulin sounds very interesting.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I have always been one of the "lean" types; I tend to run at a very
> low level of body fat (also at a very low level of mass in general!).
> At the age of 22, I spent 3 months on a charity expedition in Chile;
> we were on what was estimated to be a 4000 kCal/day diet, and I was
> still losing body fat. My weight remained approximately constant as I
> was gaining muscle.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Of course, I then spent 3 weeks on holiday, eating lots of steak, and
> put on 21lbs in those 21 days!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Paris-Brest-Paris caused me to lose 6kg of weight and it took me
about 2 months to regain all of that. 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've not lost much weight since I upped my cycling to 5K miles/year
but my body fat percentage has dropped by 4%. I do wonder if
these studies have failed to take into account healthy changes
in body composition associated with exercise.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Is it possible to do PBP on just 5000 miles per year?

Well, yes!

I did 5,000 miles last year. This year I've qualified for and ridden
PBP
and I've done about 5,000km - 3125 miles - in Audax events of 200km+
and probably no more than 2,000 miles of other cycling.

The secret is being used to the long distances. And coping with the
sleep deprivation - if I'd have been faster I'd have got more than
2h30
sleep!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm amazed. That is extremely impressive.

Chapeau.

Coyoteboy of said:

Membrane said:

Quoted message said:

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

Interesting article, I found it well argued.

It seemed to me to be essentially saying that you cant expect exercise
to fix everything because you naturally get more hungry and that
different people react slightly differently to different types of energy
sources. To me, this seems obvious but still falls within the basic
equation "calories in-calories out=stored fat" to the greatest degree?

There was another study reported fairly recently. Two groups ate lunch at a
buffet and the amount they chose to eat was measured. One group had a
sedentary morning, the other group did some reasonably strenuous exercise.
Not surprisingly the group that had exercised chose to eat more than the
sedentary group, but the additional calories they consumed were less than
the amount expended in the exercise. So the conclusion was that despite
additional food intake the net effect of exercise was on the side of
decreasing weight.
--
Steph Peters
Chorlton Wanderers Cycling Group
Monthly slow and easy rides from South Manchester
http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/cycling/chwan.htm

On 31 Oct, 23:50, Steph Peters <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Coyoteboy of said:

Membrane said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,,2198879,00.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Interesting article, I found it well argued.

Quoted message said:

It seemed to me to be essentially saying that you cant expect exercise
to fix everything because you naturally get more hungry and that
different people react slightly differently to different types of energy
sources. To me, this seems obvious but still falls within the basic
equation "calories in-calories out=stored fat" to the greatest degree?

There was another study reported fairly recently. Two groups ate lunch at a
buffet and the amount they chose to eat was measured. One group had a
sedentary morning, the other group did some reasonably strenuous exercise.
Not surprisingly the group that had exercised chose to eat more than the
sedentary group, but the additional calories they consumed were less than
the amount expended in the exercise. So the conclusion was that despite
additional food intake the net effect of exercise was on the side of
decreasing weight.
--
Steph Peters
Chorlton Wanderers Cycling Group
Monthly slow and easy rides from South Manchesterhttp://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/cycling/chwan.htm

The trouble with this type of study is that it takes no account of the
long term effect of changing exercise and eating patterns. A fat
person who reduces calory intake by say 50% and increases exercise by
say 1 hour per day may lose plenty of weight in the short and medium
term but will eventually put it all back on even whilst maintaining
the lower calory consumption and increased exercise.