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Decent Hybrid - advice please

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Published
20 June 2004
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Saint
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  1. Hi

    I already have a Scott Roadster S1 which satisfies my need
    for speed but want something a bit less sporty to either
    bimble around on/fitness and slightly more leisurely rides
    with a higher degree of comfort.

    A good mate of mine has a hybrid which, it appears, would
    satisfy that (its a Dawes Doscovery 401) but I am unsure
    which to buy. Having trawled the archives before posting it
    appers that the Discovery range get good reviews but the 401
    (having front suspension which I don't really want) are a
    little heavy weighing in at around 28lbs.

    Question is a very open one therefore - can anyone recommend
    a good, general purpose as described above hybrid? Budget is
    about 400 (500 at an absolute stretch). Would appreciate
    views on the Discovery range plus also stuff like Ridgeback
    and Specialized - in addition to others considered
    meritworthy.

    Thanks

    S

  2. Saint said:

    Hi

    I already have a Scott Roadster S1 which satisfies my need
    for speed but want something a bit less sporty to either
    bimble around on/fitness and slightly more leisurely rides
    with a higher degree of comfort.

    A good mate of mine has a hybrid which, it appears, would
    satisfy that (its a Dawes Doscovery 401) but I am unsure
    which to buy. Having trawled the archives before posting
    it appers that the Discovery range get good reviews but
    the 401 (having front suspension which I don't really
    want) are a little heavy weighing in at around 28lbs.

    Question is a very open one therefore - can anyone
    recommend a good, general purpose as described above
    hybrid? Budget is about 400 (500 at an absolute stretch).
    Would appreciate views on the Discovery range plus also
    stuff like Ridgeback and Specialized - in addition to
    others considered meritworthy.

    A friend has a Ridgeback £200 quidder, more town bike than
    hybrid. It weighs a bit more than my Giant hardtail, has 7
    gears instead of 28, but compared to my Giant on semi
    slicks, it climbs like mad. Part of it must be down to the
    lower rolling resistance of the tyres on the Ridgeback, but
    the lack of suspension forks IMO makes a big difference.

  3. I have a Dawes 301 from a couple of years back. I bought it
    for cycle touring / camping. Now the bike has going on 1600
    miles on it and running fine.

    The bigest problem is the straight handle bars, but bar ends
    sort that for £15, and its worth canging the saddles at
    least on the range 2 years back.

    All round it is a good strong bike. I didn't fancy
    suspension, but i've not really riden a bike with it so
    don't know what i'm missing.

    Gearing is fine, but if anything the frame is a bit on the
    heavy side.

    cheers

    p

    Saint said:

    Hi

    I already have a Scott Roadster S1 which satisfies my need
    for speed but want something a bit less sporty to either
    bimble around on/fitness and slightly more leisurely rides
    with a higher degree of comfort.

    A good mate of mine has a hybrid which, it appears, would
    satisfy that (its a Dawes Doscovery 401) but I am unsure
    which to buy. Having trawled the archives before posting
    it appers that the Discovery range get good reviews but
    the 401 (having front suspension which I don't really
    want) are a little heavy weighing in at around 28lbs.

    Question is a very open one therefore - can anyone
    recommend a good, general purpose as described above
    hybrid? Budget is about 400 (500 at an absolute stretch).
    Would appreciate views on the Discovery range plus also
    stuff like Ridgeback and Specialized - in addition to
    others considered meritworthy.

    Thanks

    S

  4. The Specialized Sirrus range is GREAT! You should be able to find one within your budget. I used to have a Sirrus Sport (approx £500) and it was fast, light and comfortable.

    Great value for money.

  5. I'm very happy with my Marin Kentfield. Paid £300 in March this year with rack & 'puter thrown in.
    Only done about 250 contry lane commuter miles on it but it is still crisp.
    Sort of reasonably comfy but I am going down the harder saddle route to try and stop numbing.
    I have no experience of other hybrids but this does what it is supposed to and is still fun.

    ======================

    19:45 roads will be still....

  6. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Saint
    Hi

    I already have a Scott Roadster S1 which satisfies my need
    for speed but want something a bit less sporty to either
    bimble around on/fitness and slightly more leisurely rides
    with a higher degree of comfort.

    A good mate of mine has a hybrid which, it appears, would
    satisfy that (its a Dawes Doscovery 401) but I am unsure
    which to buy. Having trawled the archives before posting it
    appers that the Discovery range get good reviews but the 401
    (having front suspension which I don't really want) are a
    little heavy weighing in at around 28lbs.

    Question is a very open one therefore - can anyone recommend
    a good, general purpose as described above hybrid? Budget is
    about 400 (500 at an absolute stretch). Would appreciate
    views on the Discovery range plus also stuff like Ridgeback
    and Specialized - in addition to others considered
    meritworthy.

    Thanks

    S

    I think we need to look a bit more closely at what your needs are before deciding what type of bike would suit.

    "Hybrid" means different things to different people but the usual definition is:
    - Road Frame
    - 700c Wheels (but wide-ish with fatter tyres)
    - Straight Bars & corresponding levers/shifters
    - Triple Chainset + Wide Range on Cassette/Freewheel

    If I have got you right, you want something for road use, not built for speed but still fairly light and comfortable for longer rides.

    Looking at each of the points in the hybrid spec:
    - Road Frame - if you're not going off-road, this is what you want
    - 700c wheels - these are really built for speed, including "fast-touring" or audax. If speed is not important to you, consider 26in wheels; they will be stronger and more reliable. They don't have to have big fat tyres.
    - Straight bars + shifters etc. This is a matter of personal choice but drop bars do give more riding positions. Straight bars offer limited riding positions (although you could fit bar-ends) and so on long rides may turn out to be less comfortable.
    - Wide gears - what do you want all them for? That said, most Audax bikes come with triple chainsets.

    If you can have a think about that lot and them come back, we should be able to home in on the right kind of bike.

    Ian

  7. wheelsgoround said:

    "Hybrid" means different things to different people but
    the usual definition is:
    - Road Frame

    I wonder how many people could tell the difference between a
    "road frame" and an "MTB frame" where used to trundle about
    town. If you're using them in performance places, maybe, but
    for trundling about town I suspect there's rather less
    difference than a lot of people might think. After all, one
    of the great things about the diamond frame is its
    flexibility in a variety or roles.

    Quoted message said:

    - 700c Wheels (but wide-ish with fatter tyres)

    Quite a lot have 26"

    Quoted message said:

    - Straight Bars & corresponding levers/shifters
    - Triple Chainset + Wide Range on Cassette/Freewheel

    I think there are increasingly more with hub gears as time
    goes by. ICBW and have no hard data but my impression is
    that as time marches on the many more of the UK bike buying
    public are finally coming to realise that sporty looks and
    cool sounding specs are not necessarily the same as most fit
    for utilitarian purpose.

    Quoted message said:

    Looking at each of the points in the hybrid spec:
    - Road Frame - if you're not going off-road, this is what
    you want

    see above

    Quoted message said:

    - 700c wheels - these are really built for speed,
    including "fast- touring" or audax. If speed is not
    important to you, consider 26in wheels; they will be
    stronger and more reliable. They don't have to have big
    fat tyres.

    A bit like the frame, I don't think this will make nearly as
    much difference as a lot of people like to think. Yes, all
    else being equal 700c will have slightly lower rolling
    resistance, but frankly you'll make far, far, far more
    difference with choice of tyres. Note that Moultons have set
    speed records "despite" their wee wheels. A few years ago
    I'd have been loathe to consider a machine for the road
    without 700c wheels, but after some actual experience of
    smaller wheels I'm reasonably convinced that sales of 700c
    owe more to perception than reality. 26" aren't much slower,
    especially if you put on fast tyres like Stelvios, but they
    are stronger and suit a greater range of rider sizes. If I
    bought an upright diamond frame for utility trundling now
    I'd take 26" wheels rather than 700c if all else was equal,
    and with the right tyres I wouldn't get left behind on it if
    I wanted to put my foot down.

    Quoted message said:

    - Straight bars + shifters etc. This is a matter of
    personal choice but drop bars do give more riding
    positions. Straight bars offer limited riding positions
    (although you could fit bar-ends) and so on long rides
    may turn out to be less comfortable.

    This is true, but OTOH drop bars do take some getting used
    to and the "more positions" thing only becomes relevant on
    fairly long rides, especially if you've got a more upright
    position with more weight on the saddle rather than on the
    bars. Like 700c wheels, I wouldn't ride on roads on anything
    but drops for years. More recent practical experience of
    actually riding flat bars for utility jobs have enlightened
    me that I was being a bit precious about my personal
    definition of a "proper bike".

    Quoted message said:

    - Wide gears - what do you want all them for? That said,
    most Audax bikes come with triple chainsets.

    On a utility hack hub gears might make a lot more sense than
    a derailleur. It's less about sheer number of gears than are
    the ones you've got the right ones. I have 3 on my urban
    hack bike ranging from quite low to moderate. It's easy to
    spin out down hills but trundling round town I'm happy to
    let gravity do the work, and 3 is enough even though Dundee
    comes fitted with wide ranging hills as standard...

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
    ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
    640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
    [email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinch

  8. Quoted message said:

    wheelsgoround wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Looking at each of the points in the hybrid spec:
    - Road Frame - if you're not going off-road, this is
    what you want

    For me the distinction between on-road and off-road is more
    fuzzy than most people here seem to take it. I have used my
    hybrid mainly for hacks in and around Amsterdam, but that
    included usually a fair amount of poorly paved surfaces:
    roadworks with temporary bricks layed out, tarmac cycle path
    with tree roots growing under it, road with uneven concrete
    slabs, snow and slush in winter, the odd driveway to a
    farmhouse. And on holidays we tended to stay on the roads
    but some of these were rather bumpy (especially when foreign
    maps had different ideas about what a "road" is supposed to
    mean - anything driveable by a tractor in some cases)

    And currently: I don't consider myself to be cycling off-
    road but the lane to our house is steeper and bumpier than
    the sort of off-road most people do in Tentsmuir forest...

    Roos

  9. <snip>

    Quoted message said:


    I think we need to look a bit more closely at what your
    needs are before deciding what type of bike would suit.

    OK - I appreciate the help.

    Quoted message said:


    "Hybrid" means different things to different people but the
    usual definition is:
    - Road Frame
    - 700c Wheels (but wide-ish with fatter tyres)
    - Straight Bars & corresponding levers/shifters
    - Triple Chainset + Wide Range on Cassette/Freewheel

    If I have got you right, you want something for road use,
    not built for speed but still fairly light and comfortable
    for longer rides.

    Yes as long as it's not an old tug which weighs a ton. I
    don't want to race or set any speed records - this is not
    its purpose and aI already have a road bike in the Scott for
    that. I want to use this for slower, maybe longer rides.
    This may include terrain like canal paths and the like but
    not off road in the MTB sense.

    Quoted message said:


    Looking at each of the points in the hybrid spec:
    - Road Frame - if you're not going off-road, this is what
    you want

    See above - off road-ish would be more appropriate.

    Quoted message said:

    - 700c wheels - these are really built for speed,
    including "fast- touring" or audax. If speed is not
    important to you, consider 26in wheels; they will be
    stronger and more reliable. They don't have to have big
    fat tyres.
    - Straight bars + shifters etc. This is a matter of
    personal choice but drop bars do give more riding
    positions. Straight bars offer limited riding positions
    (although you could fit bar-ends) and so on long rides
    may turn out to be less comfortable.

    Yes I want straight bars - definitely not drops. My Scott
    has straight ones and I have bar ends fitted and am
    comfortable with that positon and set up.

    Quoted message said:

    - Wide gears - what do you want all them for? That said,
    most Audax bikes come with triple chainsets.

    I want a triple as where I live can be quite hilly and I am
    a lazy bugger. ;-)

    Quoted message said:


    If you can have a think about that lot and them come back,
    we should be able to home in on the right kind of bike.

    Ian

    Thanks in advance for your help.

  10. Roos Eisma said:
    Quoted message said:

    wheelsgoround wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Looking at each of the points in the hybrid spec:
    - Road Frame - if you're not going off-road, this is
    what you want

    For me the distinction between on-road and off-road is
    more fuzzy than most people here seem to take it. I have
    used my hybrid mainly for hacks in and around Amsterdam,
    but that included usually a fair amount of poorly paved
    surfaces: roadworks with temporary bricks layed out,
    tarmac cycle path with tree roots growing under it, road
    with uneven concrete slabs, snow and slush in winter, the
    odd driveway to a farmhouse. And on holidays we tended to
    stay on the roads but some of these were rather bumpy
    (especially when foreign maps had different ideas about
    what a "road" is supposed to mean - anything driveable by
    a tractor in some cases)

    And currently: I don't consider myself to be cycling off-
    road but the lane to our house is steeper and bumpier than
    the sort of off-road most people do in Tentsmuir forest...

    Roos

    Together with general roads near where I live your above
    description summarises nicely what I mean when I try to
    describe what I want a second bike for. Definitely not off
    raoding in the MTB sense but to go to places I wouldn't ever
    ever take my Scott.

    I hope I am making sense.

    On another note I went to speak to my LBS today as I
    understood they stock Ridgeback Hybrids which I have been
    advised to consider. They have just stopped doing them and
    now only do the Dawes Discovery range of hybrid. They look
    nice too but I genuinely do not know anything about them.

    Funny thing was how less friendly the LBS People became when
    I said I may have to go elsewhere if I plump for a
    RIdgeback.

    Cheers

    S

  11. Pete C and Roos make some good points especially about the distinction between road frames and off-road frames.

    Aside from the shape/size of the tubing and the "chunkiness" of the frame (road frames can be pretty chunky these days) the main characteristic of the MTB frame is the high bottom bracket and resulting reduced seat tube length. This is fine if you are hopping over boulders and logs but not necessary for the high street or cycle paths & canal towpaths.

    Saint, it seems like the spec we have so far is:
    - 26in wheels
    - Triple Chainset (or hub gears with v. wide range - pricey)
    - Straight Bars
    - Frame - open-minded
    - Mudguards ? I would recommend them
    - Luggage Rack ? Adds versatility

    Dawes Discovery range does look OK. 501 is within your budget, doesn't have suspension but doesn't come with mudguards & luggage rack fitted although that is easily rectified

    Comments anyone?

  12. wheelsgoround said:

    Pete C and Roos make some good points especially about the
    distinction between road frames and off-road frames.

    Aside from the shape/size of the tubing and the
    "chunkiness" of the frame (road frames can be pretty chunky
    these days) the main characteristic of the MTB frame is the
    high bottom bracket and resulting reduced seat tube length.
    This is fine if you are hopping over boulders and logs but
    not necessary for the high street or cycle paths & canal
    towpaths.

    Saint, it seems like the spec we have so far is:
    - 26in wheels
    - Triple Chainset (or hub gears with v. wide range -
    pricey)
    - Straight Bars
    - Frame - open-minded
    - Mudguards ? I would recommend them
    - Luggage Rack ? Adds versatility

    Dawes Discovery range does look OK. 501 is within your
    budget, doesn't have suspension but doesn't come with
    mudguards & luggage rack fitted although that is easily
    rectified

    Comments anyone?

    That's one of the ones I have been looking at and, for the
    intended purpose, it looks like a nice bike although the
    601 looks slightly better given it's Deore mechs and
    lighter frame.

    I'd really welcome comments from Discovery riders and also
    Ridgeback Rapide series riders to get a feel for the VFM of
    the bikes.

    Thanks to all for help so far.

    Saint

  13. Saint wrote: <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Would appreciate views on the Discovery range plus also
    stuff like Ridgeback and Specialized - in addition to
    others considered meritworthy.

    Thanks

    S

    I am no expert, but I recently got back into the saddle
    after a 15 year absence. I got a Ridgeback hybrid-type of
    bike - the Rapide Velocity (tinyurl.com38tbk). I
    have not really taken it out much due to the arrival of
    sonandheir, but have found it very pleasant indeed.

    HTH,

    Patrick

    --
    Patrick Mullin,

    Email <first name> at AuroraDigitalis dot com

  14. in message <[email hidden]>, wheelsgoround

    (') said:

    Pete C and Roos make some good points especially about the
    distinction between road frames and off-road frames.

    Aside from the shape/size of the tubing and the
    "chunkiness" of the frame (road frames can be pretty
    chunky these days) the main characteristic of the MTB
    frame is the high bottom bracket and resulting reduced
    seat tube length. This is fine if you are hopping over
    boulders and logs but not necessary for the high street or
    cycle paths & canal towpaths.

    Saint, it seems like the spec we have so far is:
    - 26in wheels
    - Triple Chainset (or hub gears with v. wide range -
    pricey)
    - Straight Bars
    - Frame - open-minded
    - Mudguards ? I would recommend them
    - Luggage Rack ? Adds versatility

    Dawes Discovery range does look OK. 501 is within your
    budget, doesn't have suspension but doesn't come with
    mudguards & luggage rack fitted although that is easily
    rectified

    Look at the Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op's Revolution Courier.
    It's worth considering and excellent value for money.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
    jasmine.org.uk~simon ;; Our modern industrial
    economy takes a mountain covered with trees, ;; lakes,
    running streams and transforms it into a mountain of junk,
    ;; garbage, slime pits, and debris. -- Edward Abbey

  15. Saint said:

    I want a triple as where I live can be quite hilly and I
    am a lazy bugger. ;-)

    That applies to me too. My tourer does have a triple but my
    freight bike has no front changer and an 8 speed rear and
    can lug 50 Kg of coal up fair sized hills, and my folder has
    a 3 speed hub and still gets me round a hilly town. If
    you're not in a hurry (and it seems you're not) then as long
    as the bottom gear is low enough then a 1 x 8 or a hub gear
    costs less (or effectively means you spend the money on more
    useful things) and requires less maintenance both for gears
    and chain.

    Another possibility to consider would be the SRAM Dualdrive,
    which has a rear derailleur mounted on a three speed hub so
    you get the same sort of range as a front triple but you can
    change the hub when you're still (useful at lights and
    junctions) and have the maintenance advantages of a hub.
    Slightly less efficient, I'm guessing, but I think it would
    suit a trundler /much/ better than a triple front
    derailleur. Roos has one on her serious new tourer and has
    expressed no regrets as yet.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
    ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
    640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
    [email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinch

  16. Peter Clinch said:


    Another possibility to consider would be the SRAM
    Dualdrive, which has a rear derailleur mounted on a three
    speed hub so you get the same sort of range as a front
    triple but you can change the hub when you're still (useful
    at lights and junctions) and have the maintenance
    advantages of a hub. Slightly less efficient, I'm guessing,
    but I think it would suit a trundler /much/ better than a
    triple front derailleur. Roos has one on her serious new
    tourer and has expressed no regrets as yet.

    Another benefit is that you get to use all the gears - no
    worrying about big-big or small-small chain line problems.

    Tim
    --
    For those who have trouble distinguishing, cynicsm, sarcasm,
    humour etc, try mentally inserting smilies thoughout my post
    until it either matches what you'd like to read, or what
    you'd expect me to write.

    (Jon Senior urc)

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