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Deep Vee's

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Published
17 August 2006
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23 August 2006
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D'ohBoy
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  1. Weight Weenies lists the weight (actual) of these rims as ~580 gms(!).
    Velocity says they are 520 gms.

    If anyone out there has access to one or more of these rims and a
    little time, can they confirm either of these values?

    I have been considering these for a set of more aero wheels but was a
    little put off by the 520 gms and if they are actually in the 580
    range, I will find a different rim. Cripes, even the old CXP 30's were
    right around 500 gms!

    Thanks for any time anyone might invest in answering my question!

    D'ohBoy

  2. D'ohBoy said:

    Weight Weenies lists the weight (actual) of these rims as ~580 gms(!).
    Velocity says they are 520 gms.

    If anyone out there has access to one or more of these rims and a
    little time, can they confirm either of these values?

    I have been considering these for a set of more aero wheels but was a
    little put off by the 520 gms and if they are actually in the 580
    range, I will find a different rim. Cripes, even the old CXP 30's were
    right around 500 gms!

    Thanks for any time anyone might invest in answering my question!

    D'ohBoy

    Given that the extruding dies for rims wear over time, the weight can
    vary as the dies age. An early set , made when the dies were new might
    weigh 520 grams. A later run might weigh 580 grams because the
    extrusion was thicker.

    FWIW: Sun Venus rims are a *claimed* 440 grams.
    http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=RM8575
    http://www.sun-ringle.com/2006/roadrims.jpg
    Deep enough for you?

    Jeff

  3. JeffWills said:
    D'ohBoy said:

    Weight Weenies lists the weight (actual) of these rims as ~580 gms(!).
    Velocity says they are 520 gms.

    If anyone out there has access to one or more of these rims and a
    little time, can they confirm either of these values?

    I have been considering these for a set of more aero wheels but was a
    little put off by the 520 gms and if they are actually in the 580
    range, I will find a different rim. Cripes, even the old CXP 30's were
    right around 500 gms!

    Thanks for any time anyone might invest in answering my question!

    D'ohBoy

    Given that the extruding dies for rims wear over time, the weight can
    vary as the dies age. An early set , made when the dies were new might
    weigh 520 grams. A later run might weigh 580 grams because the
    extrusion was thicker.

    FWIW: Sun Venus rims are a *claimed* 440 grams.
    http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=RM8575
    http://www.sun-ringle.com/2006/roadrims.jpg
    Deep enough for you?

    Jeff

    Any other deep section rims out there I might consider besides the CXP
    33's, of which, I already have a pair, and the Deep Vee's (too heavy)?

    D'ohBoy

  4. D'ohBoy said:
    JeffWills said:
    D'ohBoy said:

    Weight Weenies lists the weight (actual) of these rims as ~580 gms(!).
    Velocity says they are 520 gms.

    If anyone out there has access to one or more of these rims and a
    little time, can they confirm either of these values?

    I have been considering these for a set of more aero wheels but was a
    little put off by the 520 gms and if they are actually in the 580
    range, I will find a different rim. Cripes, even the old CXP 30's were
    right around 500 gms!

    Thanks for any time anyone might invest in answering my question!

    D'ohBoy

    Given that the extruding dies for rims wear over time, the weight can
    vary as the dies age. An early set , made when the dies were new might
    weigh 520 grams. A later run might weigh 580 grams because the
    extrusion was thicker.

    FWIW: Sun Venus rims are a *claimed* 440 grams.
    http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=RM8575
    http://www.sun-ringle.com/2006/roadrims.jpg
    Deep enough for you?

    Jeff

    Any other deep section rims out there I might consider besides the CXP
    33's, of which, I already have a pair, and the Deep Vee's (too heavy)?

    D'ohBoy

    I mean, 30 mm deep or more?

    Thanks,

    D'ohBoy


  5. Quoted message said:

    I have been considering these for a set of more aero wheels but was a
    little put off by the 520 gms and if they are actually in the 580
    range, I will find a different rim. Cripes, even the old CXP 30's were
    right around 500 gms!

    Some rim manufacturers quote weight without eyelets. I don't know about
    the Velocity rims though.

    I think your best bet is to look at the web site for Dave (forgot his
    last name) at "Speed Dream" wheels. He builds lots of wheels with that
    rim and a few others, and he also weighs each wheel before shipping
    when it is all ready to go. I think he has posted some samples and if
    you get the weight for the hub, spokes and nipples then you will know
    the weight of the rims he used. That is probably a better bet than
    getting a reading from a scale and user that may or may not be
    calibrated or otherwise not accurate.

  6. D'ohBoy said:

    Weight Weenies lists the weight (actual) of these rims as ~580 gms(!).
    Velocity says they are 520 gms.

    If anyone out there has access to one or more of these rims and a
    little time, can they confirm either of these values?

    I have been considering these for a set of more aero wheels but was a
    little put off by the 520 gms and if they are actually in the 580
    range, I will find a different rim. Cripes, even the old CXP 30's were
    right around 500 gms!

    Thanks for any time anyone might invest in answering my question!

    D'ohBoy


    The ones I have in stock range from 564 to 574 grams with the plastic wrap on them (and a few particals of aluminum from drilling). The 564 gram unit is 36 hole and the remaining 5 are 28 hole. Extrusion thickens with die wear. 520 grams is with the fresh die.

  7. Dave Thomas--he builds fantastic wheels.

    Don

    Chris M said:
    Quoted message said:

    I have been considering these for a set of more aero wheels but was a
    little put off by the 520 gms and if they are actually in the 580
    range, I will find a different rim. Cripes, even the old CXP 30's were
    right around 500 gms!

    Some rim manufacturers quote weight without eyelets. I don't know about
    the Velocity rims though.

    I think your best bet is to look at the web site for Dave (forgot his
    last name) at "Speed Dream" wheels. He builds lots of wheels with that
    rim and a few others, and he also weighs each wheel before shipping
    when it is all ready to go. I think he has posted some samples and if
    you get the weight for the hub, spokes and nipples then you will know
    the weight of the rims he used. That is probably a better bet than
    getting a reading from a scale and user that may or may not be
    calibrated or otherwise not accurate.

  8. D'ohBoy said:

    Weight Weenies lists the weight (actual) of these rims as ~580 gms(!).
    Velocity says they are 520 gms.

    If anyone out there has access to one or more of these rims and a
    little time, can they confirm either of these values?

    I have been considering these for a set of more aero wheels but was a
    little put off by the 520 gms and if they are actually in the 580
    range, I will find a different rim. Cripes, even the old CXP 30's were
    right around 500 gms!

    Thanks for any time anyone might invest in answering my question!

    D'ohBoy

    20 gms. = .706 oz
    Is it THAT important of a factor? You'll never notice the difference.
    Gezzzz

  9. cycledogg said:
    D'ohBoy said:

    Weight Weenies lists the weight (actual) of these rims as ~580 gms(!).
    Velocity says they are 520 gms.

    If anyone out there has access to one or more of these rims and a
    little time, can they confirm either of these values?

    I have been considering these for a set of more aero wheels but was a
    little put off by the 520 gms and if they are actually in the 580
    range, I will find a different rim. Cripes, even the old CXP 30's were
    right around 500 gms!

    Thanks for any time anyone might invest in answering my question!

    D'ohBoy

    20 gms. = .706 oz
    Is it THAT important of a factor? You'll never notice the difference.
    Gezzzz

    CyclePup:

    To each their own. Some guys, like my buddy at work, spent $35,000 on
    a Scooby WRX STi that goes some 50 billion miles per hour. He races it
    on the weekends on local tracks. He spends many hours researching and
    buying thousands of dollars of parts for his car to improve it's hp or
    torque by 0.5%.

    You, spend time worrying about my concern with *120* gms (580 - 520 * 2
    = 120 gms; you need two for a bike).

    Who is wasting their time more? My buddy at work, me, OR YOU?

    I was going to justify my desire to experiment and expand my wheel
    building experiences while creating some durable and aero wheels. But
    I don't have to.

    :-p

    D'ohBoy

  10. QUOTE=D'ohBoycycledogg said:
    D'ohBoy said:

    Weight Weenies lists the weight (actual) of these rims as ~580 gms(!).
    Velocity says they are 520 gms.

    If anyone out there has access to one or more of these rims and a
    little time, can they confirm either of these values?

    I have been considering these for a set of more aero wheels but was a
    little put off by the 520 gms and if they are actually in the 580
    range, I will find a different rim. Cripes, even the old CXP 30's were
    right around 500 gms!

    Thanks for any time anyone might invest in answering my question!

    D'ohBoy

    20 gms. = .706 oz
    Is it THAT important of a factor? You'll never notice the difference.
    Gezzzz

    CyclePup:

    To each their own. Some guys, like my buddy at work, spent $35,000 on
    a Scooby WRX STi that goes some 50 billion miles per hour. He races it
    on the weekends on local tracks. He spends many hours researching and
    buying thousands of dollars of parts for his car to improve it's hp or
    torque by 0.5%.

    You, spend time worrying about my concern with *120* gms (580 - 520 * 2
    = 120 gms; you need two for a bike).

    Who is wasting their time more? My buddy at work, me, OR YOU?

    I was going to justify my desire to experiment and expand my wheel
    building experiences while creating some durable and aero wheels. But
    I don't have to.

    :-p

    D'ohBoy[/QUOTE]
    A visit to Weight Weenies, if you haven't already done so, will help you trim items down another 120 grams per wheel:
    Rox Strip or Veloplugs
    Super light weight tubes (harder to find with longer valve stems)
    Light weight tires
    Lighter spokes like Sapim Laser (CX-Rays for bling & big $s) or DT Revolution (not right rear IMO).
    Alloy nipples will save another ~20 grams per wheel but life expectancy/durability may not be worth it, and they are a pain to change.
    I am not suggesting that all these items are the best for your application (Or that you haven't already thoght of/tried them), but the aero difference from what you are now riding and 30 mm deep rims isn't easy to measure either.
    If any othe the above don't work, excepting the spokes & nipples, they can be quickly changed to something more suitable.
    I tried all of the above and the only items I still use today are the Sapim Laser Spokes (hard to beat and time consuming to change) and the Veloplugs.
    Deep Vs build very durable wheels.

  11. D'ohBoy said:

    Who is wasting their time more? My buddy at work, me, OR YOU?

    Oh, thanks a lot D'oh Boy. We all read this, now you've dragged us
    into your evil, "acknowledge the time you're wasting here" world.

    "From here to where the sun now stands, I shall post no more, forever"

  12. D'ohBoy said:

    I mean, 30 mm deep or more?

    IRD Aero or Speedcific Niobium (same rim). Under 465g. $65 each and
    free shipping.
    http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/9/130.htm?987

  13. Ron Ruff said:
    D'ohBoy said:

    I mean, 30 mm deep or more?

    IRD Aero or Speedcific Niobium (same rim). Under 465g. $65 each and
    free shipping.
    http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/9/130.htm?987

    Yah, actually looked at those. Considered those. Definitely an
    option. The wheels I was considering building:

    White Industries H1 hubs: 400 gms with QR's
    Sapim CX-Ray spokes: 28 per, about 300 gms
    Brass nips: 28 per, about 56 gms
    IRD Cadence Aero rims: 465 per

    'bout 1700 gms and $700. Not bad for aero and probably tolerant of my
    14.5 stone weight. I could add about 60 gms by going with Chorus hubs
    and save $200. And I guess I could, as others have suggested, reduce
    weight on the final on-bike wheels with those Velocity plugs and
    lighter tires and tubes.

    I note that the American Classic 420's are supposed to be
    Clydesdale-compliant and about 1550 gms and cost only about $100 more.
    And a warranty!

    Sadly, as of yesterday evening, this project is on hold for a year or
    so as home repairs are just about to eat a giant hole in my fun budget.

    :-(

    D'ohBoy

  14. D'ohBoy said:
    Ron Ruff said:
    D'ohBoy said:

    I mean, 30 mm deep or more?

    IRD Aero or Speedcific Niobium (same rim). Under 465g. $65 each and
    free shipping.
    http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/9/130.htm?987

    Yah, actually looked at those. Considered those. Definitely an
    option. The wheels I was considering building:

    White Industries H1 hubs: 400 gms with QR's
    Sapim CX-Ray spokes: 28 per, about 300 gms
    Brass nips: 28 per, about 56 gms
    IRD Cadence Aero rims: 465 per

    'bout 1700 gms and $700. Not bad for aero and probably tolerant of my
    14.5 stone weight. I could add about 60 gms by going with Chorus hubs
    and save $200. And I guess I could, as others have suggested, reduce
    weight on the final on-bike wheels with those Velocity plugs and
    lighter tires and tubes.

    I note that the American Classic 420's are supposed to be
    Clydesdale-compliant and about 1550 gms and cost only about $100 more.
    And a warranty!

    Sadly, as of yesterday evening, this project is on hold for a year or
    so as home repairs are just about to eat a giant hole in my fun budget.

    Come on! Home repairs are fun. Really. I get more satisfaction out of
    remodeling a little room or doing a plumbing job than buying a new set
    of wheels. I love to show people the shiny copper pipe or a new tile
    job. Most people do not relate to expensive wheels, and after about
    the fourth ride, its ho hum for me -- unless the wheels are only put on
    for extra-special racing events, and then they take on special meaning.
    You can look at them when you get old and remember your brilliant
    victories/losses. Otherwise, go for the plumbing. -- Jay Beattie.

  15. "D'ohBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Ron Ruff said:
    D'ohBoy said:

    I mean, 30 mm deep or more?

    IRD Aero or Speedcific Niobium (same rim). Under 465g. $65 each and
    free shipping.
    http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/9/130.htm?987

    Yah, actually looked at those. Considered those. Definitely an
    option. The wheels I was considering building:

    White Industries H1 hubs: 400 gms with QR's
    Sapim CX-Ray spokes: 28 per, about 300 gms
    Brass nips: 28 per, about 56 gms
    IRD Cadence Aero rims: 465 per

    'bout 1700 gms and $700. Not bad for aero and probably tolerant of my
    14.5 stone weight. I could add about 60 gms by going with Chorus hubs
    and save $200. And I guess I could, as others have suggested, reduce
    weight on the final on-bike wheels with those Velocity plugs and
    lighter tires and tubes.

    I note that the American Classic 420's are supposed to be
    Clydesdale-compliant and about 1550 gms and cost only about $100 more.
    And a warranty!

    Sadly, as of yesterday evening, this project is on hold for a year or
    so as home repairs are just about to eat a giant hole in my fun budget.

    :-(

    D'ohBoy

    I'm on Velocity AeroHead (36 spoke OC rear / 32 spoke front) with White
    Industries LTA hubs (the predecessor to H1) with CX-Ray spokes (3-cross
    drive, radial non-drive and front), aluminum nips and VeloPlugs. . . weight
    is 1600 grams and I started out on these weighing 300 lbs. I'm down to 250
    now, but the wheels have stood up without being touched for nearly 1500
    miles. . . OC rim offers a better improvement to rear wheel stability and
    durability than a deep rim i.m.h.o. . . .

  16. D'ohBoy said:

    I note that the American Classic 420's are supposed to be
    Clydesdale-compliant and about 1550 gms and cost only about $100 more.
    And a warranty!

    That is weight without skewers... yes? So they are maybe 50g lighter...
    and have those crappy AC hubs...

    You might consider going with a Chorus rear hub and White Ind front...

    You also may want to use thicker spokes on the drive rear to make
    tensioning easier and improve stiffness a bit.

  17. D'ohBoy said:

    Weight Weenies lists the weight (actual) of these rims as ~580 gms(!).
    Velocity says they are 520 gms.

    If anyone out there has access to one or more of these rims and a
    little time, can they confirm either of these values?

    I have been considering these for a set of more aero wheels but was a
    little put off by the 520 gms and if they are actually in the 580
    range, I will find a different rim. Cripes, even the old CXP 30's were
    right around 500 gms!

    Thanks for any time anyone might invest in answering my question!

    D'ohBoy

    I can't answer the question you asked, but I'll answer the question
    that matters. I've ridden Velocity Deep V's on and off over the years,
    on the road, velodrome, and in cyclocross races.

    I've also used super-light deep-sectioned carbon wheels (Zipp, Cane
    Creek, and Reynolds) as well as heavy-duty training wheels w/ MA-40s,
    "regular" wheels w/ Open Pro or DT RR1.1 rims.

    My conclusion: except when you're picking your bike up to load it on
    the roof of your car, you'll not notice the difference between the Deep
    Vs and any other wheel EXCEPT the lightest of the ultra-light wheels.
    You darned sure won't notice the roughly 100 gr. difference between
    these rims and most other lighter clincher rims.

    And, on the plus side, they're darned hard to damage or knock out of
    true. My current pair were built up by Pete Chisholm at Vecchios in
    Boulder and have never needed truing, even after many hundreds of miles
    on dirt roads.

    Scott

  18. JeffWills said:
    D'ohBoy said:

    Weight Weenies lists the weight (actual) of these rims as ~580 gms(!).
    Velocity says they are 520 gms.

    If anyone out there has access to one or more of these rims and a
    little time, can they confirm either of these values?

    I have been considering these for a set of more aero wheels but was a
    little put off by the 520 gms and if they are actually in the 580
    range, I will find a different rim. Cripes, even the old CXP 30's were
    right around 500 gms!

    Thanks for any time anyone might invest in answering my question!

    D'ohBoy

    Given that the extruding dies for rims wear over time, the weight can
    vary as the dies age. An early set , made when the dies were new might
    weigh 520 grams. A later run might weigh 580 grams because the
    extrusion was thicker.

    FWIW: Sun Venus rims are a *claimed* 440 grams.
    http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=RM8575
    http://www.sun-ringle.com/2006/roadrims.jpg

    A better link:
    http://www.sun-ringle.com/ShowRoom/ROAD/Rims/venus.html

    (click on the picture to enlarge and see a schematic of the rim section)

    Quoted message said:

    Deep enough for you?

    I can't answer for the OP, but if I were looking for a 30 mm rim, the
    19.6 mm depth of the Venus wouldn't cut it.

    The Sun Swift might work... it's 30 mm deep and comes in a polished
    finish. I haven't seen one in person, but I can imagine that 30 mm of
    shiny aluminum would look pretty snazzy. The claimed weight is 500 g,
    but no entries at weightweenies.starbike.com, and a few minutes of
    googling didn't uncover much content related to this rim.

    http://www.sun-ringle.com/ShowRoom/ROAD/Rims/swift.html

    --
    Dave
    dvt at psu dot edu

    Everyone confesses that exertion which brings out all the powers of body
    and mind is the best thing for us; but most people do all they can to
    get rid of it, and as a general rule nobody does much more than
    circumstances drive them to do. -Harriet Beecher Stowe, abolitionist and
    novelist (1811-1896)

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