Destroyed derailleur hanger on steel MTB. Options?

[[email protected]]

A very mean stick bent my rear derailleur into my wheel yesterday and
my wheel tore my derailleur out of the frame handily. This is on an old
Kona Kilauea, steel frame (1995, I think). It's in the shop right now
and the mechanic thinks it's trashed because the hole in the hanger is
probably out of round. He recommends, IF it can be fixed, to just put a
nut in the back of the derailleur bolt (and I'll be smart enough to use
breakaway bolts from now on). Anyway, he is pretty confident that "it's
beyind repair" but as a former mechanic myself, I know that this
diagnosis is really only based on his level of experience, and I'm not
ready to write off this frame on his word alone.

So, question is, if the hole is so out of round that the derailleur
bolt won't go through anymore, what are my options? Can I get some sort
of simple dropout replacement that would work? I want simple and easy
and low cost, preferably!

Also, I would be open to SS conversion, too. He said "no way" on this
frame and again, I don't have much confidence that he knows what he is
talking about, but I don't know much about the mechanics of SS
conversion. Any help is much appreciated, thanks!

Steve

 

[Chris Nelson]

[email protected] wrote:
> A very mean stick bent my rear derailleur into my wheel yesterday and
> my wheel tore my derailleur out of the frame handily. This is on an old
> Kona Kilauea, steel frame (1995, I think). It's in the shop right now
> and the mechanic thinks it's trashed because the hole in the hanger is
> probably out of round. He recommends, IF it can be fixed, to just put a
> nut in the back of the derailleur bolt (and I'll be smart enough to use
> breakaway bolts from now on). Anyway, he is pretty confident that "it's
> beyind repair" but as a former mechanic myself, I know that this
> diagnosis is really only based on his level of experience, and I'm not
> ready to write off this frame on his word alone.
>
> So, question is, if the hole is so out of round that the derailleur
> bolt won't go through anymore, what are my options? Can I get some sort
> of simple dropout replacement that would work? I want simple and easy
> and low cost, preferably!
>
> Also, I would be open to SS conversion, too. He said "no way" on this
> frame and again, I don't have much confidence that he knows what he is
> talking about, but I don't know much about the mechanics of SS
> conversion. Any help is much appreciated, thanks!
>
> Steve

Take it somewhere else. I've seen this type of damage repaired before.
First the hanger was bent back, then they drilled out the damaged
hanger and inserted this little insert gizmo with derailleur threads.
Back in business.

Chris

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:
> A very mean stick bent my rear derailleur into my wheel yesterday and
> my wheel tore my derailleur out of the frame handily. This is on an old
> Kona Kilauea, steel frame (1995, I think). It's in the shop right now
> and the mechanic thinks it's trashed because the hole in the hanger is
> probably out of round. He recommends, IF it can be fixed, to just put a
> nut in the back of the derailleur bolt (and I'll be smart enough to use
> breakaway bolts from now on). Anyway, he is pretty confident that "it's
> beyind repair" but as a former mechanic myself, I know that this
> diagnosis is really only based on his level of experience, and I'm not
> ready to write off this frame on his word alone.
>
> So, question is, if the hole is so out of round that the derailleur
> bolt won't go through anymore, what are my options? Can I get some sort
> of simple dropout replacement that would work? I want simple and easy
> and low cost, preferably!
>
> Also, I would be open to SS conversion, too. He said "no way" on this
> frame and again, I don't have much confidence that he knows what he is
> talking about, but I don't know much about the mechanics of SS
> conversion. Any help is much appreciated, thanks!
>
> Steve

Dear Steve,

Andrew Muzi at www.YellowJersey.Org fixes similar problems. Here's a
gallery of his repair work:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/endweld.html

A link at the bottom of the orthopedic ward lets you email him.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[James Thomson]

<[email protected]> a écrit:

> So, question is, if the hole is so out of round that the derailleur
> bolt won't go through anymore, what are my options? Can I get
> some sort of simple dropout replacement that would work? I
> want simple and easy and low cost, preferably!

You need a "dropout saver":

http://www.wheelsmfg.com/products.php?cat=tools&prod=framerepair

http://www.bicycletoolsetc.com/

> Also, I would be open to SS conversion, too. He said "no way" on this
> frame and again, I don't have much confidence that he knows what he is
> talking about, but I don't know much about the mechanics of SS
> conversion. Any help is much appreciated, thanks!

I have a '94 Kona Kilauea that had track ends fitted by the previous owner.
Not a problem.

James Thomson

 

[DharmaBum75]

Thanks for the help, guys. Like I said, I think this wrench is a real
pessimist, but we'll see what he can do. I doubt that the derailleur
hole is so ovaled that you can't get a derailleur bolt in it, but we'll
see. Worst case, I'll file it out myself and bolt in a new derailleur.
Duh.

Steve

James Thomson wrote:
> <[email protected]> a écrit:
>
> > So, question is, if the hole is so out of round that the derailleur
> > bolt won't go through anymore, what are my options? Can I get
> > some sort of simple dropout replacement that would work? I
> > want simple and easy and low cost, preferably!
>
> You need a "dropout saver":
>
> http://www.wheelsmfg.com/products.php?cat=tools&prod=framerepair
>
> http://www.bicycletoolsetc.com/
>
> > Also, I would be open to SS conversion, too. He said "no way" on this
> > frame and again, I don't have much confidence that he knows what he is
> > talking about, but I don't know much about the mechanics of SS
> > conversion. Any help is much appreciated, thanks!
>
> I have a '94 Kona Kilauea that had track ends fitted by the previous owner.
> Not a problem.
>
> James Thomson

 

[RonSonic]

On 24 Jul 2006 14:45:43 -0700, "DharmaBum75" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Thanks for the help, guys. Like I said, I think this wrench is a real
>pessimist, but we'll see what he can do. I doubt that the derailleur
>hole is so ovaled that you can't get a derailleur bolt in it, but we'll
>see. Worst case, I'll file it out myself and bolt in a new derailleur.

There is a nut that will work on the back of the drilled out mounting hole. A
dropout can be replaced. Or both can be replaced with track ends. Either of
those is much more involved than the "dropout saver."

Ron







>Duh.
>
>Steve
>
>James Thomson wrote:
>> <[email protected]> a écrit:
>>
>> > So, question is, if the hole is so out of round that the derailleur
>> > bolt won't go through anymore, what are my options? Can I get
>> > some sort of simple dropout replacement that would work? I
>> > want simple and easy and low cost, preferably!
>>
>> You need a "dropout saver":
>>
>> http://www.wheelsmfg.com/products.php?cat=tools&prod=framerepair
>>
>> http://www.bicycletoolsetc.com/
>>
>> > Also, I would be open to SS conversion, too. He said "no way" on this
>> > frame and again, I don't have much confidence that he knows what he is
>> > talking about, but I don't know much about the mechanics of SS
>> > conversion. Any help is much appreciated, thanks!
>>
>> I have a '94 Kona Kilauea that had track ends fitted by the previous owner.
>> Not a problem.
>>
>> James Thomson

 

[Werehatrack]

On 24 Jul 2006 12:35:22 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>A very mean stick bent my rear derailleur into my wheel yesterday and
>my wheel tore my derailleur out of the frame handily. This is on an old
>Kona Kilauea, steel frame (1995, I think). It's in the shop right now
>and the mechanic thinks it's trashed because the hole in the hanger is
>probably out of round. He recommends, IF it can be fixed, to just put a
>nut in the back of the derailleur bolt (and I'll be smart enough to use
>breakaway bolts from now on). Anyway, he is pretty confident that "it's
>beyind repair" but as a former mechanic myself, I know that this
>diagnosis is really only based on his level of experience, and I'm not
>ready to write off this frame on his word alone.

There's a threaded sleeve available as a repair for this problem, and
it usually works just fine. You have to drill the hole out a bit for
it, but that also makes the hole round again. the der hanger is under
very little strain, so it doesn't hurt for it to get a bit thinner
unless it had already been weightweenied to death.

>So, question is, if the hole is so out of round that the derailleur
>bolt won't go through anymore, what are my options? Can I get some sort
>of simple dropout replacement that would work? I want simple and easy
>and low cost, preferably!

Aside from the bushing, there's a general-purpose der hanger tab
available that's intended for use with frames that didn't have a
hanger to begin with. It can be a minor pain to deal with on a bike
that uses a QR for the rear wheel, though. I've also seen a 10x1.0mm
nut brazed on as a replacement where the orinal hanger was so mangled
that the tab broke at the der hole during straightening. The der tab
was ground off, the nut was brazed on, and it was still soldiering
along a couple of years later.

>Also, I would be open to SS conversion, too. He said "no way" on this
>frame and again, I don't have much confidence that he knows what he is
>talking about, but I don't know much about the mechanics of SS
>conversion. Any help is much appreciated, thanks!

Way, but why? There's a hub with an off-center axle that allows chain
tension adjustment via an eccentric, but I think you'll find that
simply fixing the damage and riding on is cheaper and less hassle.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> A very mean stick bent my rear derailleur into my wheel yesterday and
> my wheel tore my derailleur out of the frame handily. This is on an old
> Kona Kilauea, steel frame (1995, I think). It's in the shop right now
> and the mechanic thinks it's trashed because the hole in the hanger is
> probably out of round. He recommends, IF it can be fixed, to just put a
> nut in the back of the derailleur bolt (and I'll be smart enough to use
> breakaway bolts from now on). Anyway, he is pretty confident that "it's
> beyind repair" but as a former mechanic myself, I know that this
> diagnosis is really only based on his level of experience, and I'm not
> ready to write off this frame on his word alone.
>
> So, question is, if the hole is so out of round that the derailleur
> bolt won't go through anymore, what are my options? Can I get some sort
> of simple dropout replacement that would work? I want simple and easy
> and low cost, preferably!
>
> Also, I would be open to SS conversion, too. He said "no way" on this
> frame and again, I don't have much confidence that he knows what he is
> talking about, but I don't know much about the mechanics of SS
> conversion. Any help is much appreciated, thanks!

Start calling frame makers in your area. Talk to an
expert, rather than taking pot-luck at the bicycle
retailer.

--
Michael Press

 

[SMS]

Michael Press wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> A very mean stick bent my rear derailleur into my wheel yesterday and
>> my wheel tore my derailleur out of the frame handily. This is on an old
>> Kona Kilauea, steel frame (1995, I think). It's in the shop right now
>> and the mechanic thinks it's trashed because the hole in the hanger is
>> probably out of round. He recommends, IF it can be fixed, to just put a
>> nut in the back of the derailleur bolt (and I'll be smart enough to use
>> breakaway bolts from now on). Anyway, he is pretty confident that "it's
>> beyind repair" but as a former mechanic myself, I know that this
>> diagnosis is really only based on his level of experience, and I'm not
>> ready to write off this frame on his word alone.
>>
>> So, question is, if the hole is so out of round that the derailleur
>> bolt won't go through anymore, what are my options? Can I get some sort
>> of simple dropout replacement that would work? I want simple and easy
>> and low cost, preferably!
>>
>> Also, I would be open to SS conversion, too. He said "no way" on this
>> frame and again, I don't have much confidence that he knows what he is
>> talking about, but I don't know much about the mechanics of SS
>> conversion. Any help is much appreciated, thanks!
>
> Start calling frame makers in your area. Talk to an
> expert, rather than taking pot-luck at the bicycle
> retailer.

Start with a frame maker that's allowed to do S&S conversions. S&S will
not sell to every framemaker, they have some conditions. Their web site
has a list of framemakers, "http://www.sandsmachine.com/fbplist.htm".

 

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:48:06 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Michael Press wrote:
>> In article
>> <[email protected]>,
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> A very mean stick bent my rear derailleur into my wheel yesterday and
>>> my wheel tore my derailleur out of the frame handily. This is on an old
>>> Kona Kilauea, steel frame (1995, I think). It's in the shop right now
>>> and the mechanic thinks it's trashed because the hole in the hanger is
>>> probably out of round. He recommends, IF it can be fixed, to just put a
>>> nut in the back of the derailleur bolt (and I'll be smart enough to use
>>> breakaway bolts from now on). Anyway, he is pretty confident that "it's
>>> beyind repair" but as a former mechanic myself, I know that this
>>> diagnosis is really only based on his level of experience, and I'm not
>>> ready to write off this frame on his word alone.
>>>
>>> So, question is, if the hole is so out of round that the derailleur
>>> bolt won't go through anymore, what are my options? Can I get some sort
>>> of simple dropout replacement that would work? I want simple and easy
>>> and low cost, preferably!
>>>
>>> Also, I would be open to SS conversion, too. He said "no way" on this
>>> frame and again, I don't have much confidence that he knows what he is
>>> talking about, but I don't know much about the mechanics of SS
>>> conversion. Any help is much appreciated, thanks!
>>
>> Start calling frame makers in your area. Talk to an
>> expert, rather than taking pot-luck at the bicycle
>> retailer.
>
>Start with a frame maker that's allowed to do S&S conversions. S&S will
>not sell to every framemaker, they have some conditions. Their web site
>has a list of framemakers, "http://www.sandsmachine.com/fbplist.htm".

Dear Steven,

I doubt that the original poster's "SS conversion" referred to S&S
joints, which are just special couplings for breaking a bicycle frame
down into small, more easily packed sections.

I took "SS conversion" to mean conversion to single-speed, an obvious
solution to a missing derailleur. Good places to start would be
Sheldon Brown at Harris Cyclery and Andrew Muzi at YellowJersey:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/singlespeed.html

http://www.yellowjersey.org/sensible.html

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

[email protected] wrote:
> A very mean stick bent my rear derailleur into my wheel yesterday and
> my wheel tore my derailleur out of the frame handily. This is on an old
> Kona Kilauea, steel frame (1995, I think). It's in the shop right now
> and the mechanic thinks it's trashed because the hole in the hanger is
> probably out of round. He recommends, IF it can be fixed, to just put a
> nut in the back of the derailleur bolt (and I'll be smart enough to use
> breakaway bolts from now on). Anyway, he is pretty confident that "it's
> beyind repair" but as a former mechanic myself, I know that this
> diagnosis is really only based on his level of experience, and I'm not
> ready to write off this frame on his word alone.
>
> So, question is, if the hole is so out of round that the derailleur
> bolt won't go through anymore, what are my options? Can I get some sort
> of simple dropout replacement that would work? I want simple and easy
> and low cost, preferably!
>
> Also, I would be open to SS conversion, too. He said "no way" on this
> frame and again, I don't have much confidence that he knows what he is
> talking about, but I don't know much about the mechanics of SS
> conversion. Any help is much appreciated, thanks!
>
> Steve

Wheels manufacturing makes a 'dropout Saver', a drill bit to make the
hole for RD bigger and then a set of different width bolts for the
inside of the der hanger, bolted onto the RD fixing bolt-works great,
particularly for steel frames....have the LBS call 'Wheels'..

 

[SMS]

[email protected] wrote:

<snip>

> Dear Steven,
>
> I doubt that the original poster's "SS conversion" referred to S&S
> joints, which are just special couplings for breaking a bicycle frame
> down into small, more easily packed sections.
>
> I took "SS conversion" to mean conversion to single-speed, an obvious
> solution to a missing derailleur. Good places to start would be
> Sheldon Brown at Harris Cyclery and Andrew Muzi at YellowJersey:

Oops, sorry. I've done emergency SS conversions for people out on the
road, when their dérailleurs broke!

 

[DharmaBum75]

The only reason I was considering singlespeed conversion was in the
event that my frame was super-trashed and couldn't have a derailleur on
it anymore. I'm going to call the shop and just tell them to straighten
the hanger and leave the rest alone. He was talking about "$30-$40 for
a helicoil" and I can order a dropout saver bolt for under $10. Hell,
for the $50/hour price I should just order a set of my own frame tools
anyway. That's about the only thing I don't own from my wrench days
anyway.

Steve

SMS wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > Dear Steven,
> >
> > I doubt that the original poster's "SS conversion" referred to S&S
> > joints, which are just special couplings for breaking a bicycle frame
> > down into small, more easily packed sections.
> >
> > I took "SS conversion" to mean conversion to single-speed, an obvious
> > solution to a missing derailleur. Good places to start would be
> > Sheldon Brown at Harris Cyclery and Andrew Muzi at YellowJersey:
>
> Oops, sorry. I've done emergency SS conversions for people out on the
> road, when their dérailleurs broke!