Did everyone here......

Roger Zoul said:

"Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I give exercise a hard time here, but it's not because I think it's bad
or useless (although Taubes talks about studies suggesting that exercise
makes it harder to lose weight, they're hardly conclusive),

Under certain conditions, I believe that to be true!

Personally, cardio exercise makes me ravenous, whereas pilates or weight
training doesn't. It's really demoralizing when I've put in an hour of
cardio only to feel like eating everything in sight afterward.

b

"Brigid Nelson" <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

"Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I give exercise a hard time here, but it's not because I think it's bad
or useless (although Taubes talks about studies suggesting that exercise
makes it harder to lose weight, they're hardly conclusive),

Under certain conditions, I believe that to be true!

Personally, cardio exercise makes me ravenous, whereas pilates or weight
training doesn't. It's really demoralizing when I've put in an hour of
cardio only to feel like eating everything in sight afterward.

b

Cardio is fine for me as long as I keep to to reasonable levels, which is
almost all the time. With weight training, I'll get hungry at first, but
after a while even that becomes normal. But what really get to me is long
rides...they ramp my hunger.

Roger Zoul said:

Quoted message said:

I've started a bodyweight exercise program myself, because I want to
get stronger and I want to tighten up some of the flabby skin I've
got that's only going to get flabbier as I lose weight.

Quoted message said:

I do not see the connection.

I've always heard here that exercise is the only way (short of plastic
surgery) to tighten up loose skin. Of course, that's just as anecdotal
as the theory that exercise causes weight loss, so who knows.

--
Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

"Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

Quoted message said:

I've started a bodyweight exercise program myself, because I want to
get stronger and I want to tighten up some of the flabby skin I've
got that's only going to get flabbier as I lose weight.

Quoted message said:

I do not see the connection.

I've always heard here that exercise is the only way (short of plastic
surgery) to tighten up loose skin. Of course, that's just as anecdotal
as the theory that exercise causes weight loss, so who knows.

Well, skin has a certain elasticity to it...so weight loss will result in
some skin shrinking...that's going to depend on the person...genetics, how
much extra skin there is...how long...exercise, to the extent that it allows
you to add some muscle to fill loose skin, will help too. But....

Who says exercise causes weight loss?

Apparently, it's these "oversimplifications" are the things that work
against us in getting a handle on things.

Roger Zoul said:

"Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I've started a bodyweight exercise program myself, because I want to
> get stronger and I want to tighten up some of the flabby skin I've
> got that's only going to get flabbier as I lose weight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do not see the connection.

Quoted message said:

I've always heard here that exercise is the only way (short of plastic
surgery) to tighten up loose skin. Of course, that's just as anecdotal
as the theory that exercise causes weight loss, so who knows.

Well, skin has a certain elasticity to it...so weight loss will result in
some skin shrinking...that's going to depend on the person...genetics, how
much extra skin there is...how long...exercise, to the extent that it allows
you to add some muscle to fill loose skin, will help too. But....

Who says exercise causes weight loss?

Apparently, it's these "oversimplifications" are the things that work
against us in getting a handle on things.

Who says exercise causes weight loss?
maybe not weight loss, but fat loss for sure.
now I'm working out 3 times per week and i can already see difference
in my celluliite zones and belly 🙂
eva
www.livonialimo.com

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

"Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

>> I've started a bodyweight exercise program myself, because I want to
>> get stronger and I want to tighten up some of the flabby skin I've
>> got that's only going to get flabbier as I lose weight.

Quoted message said:

> I do not see the connection.

Quoted message said:

I've always heard here that exercise is the only way (short of plastic
surgery) to tighten up loose skin. Of course, that's just as anecdotal
as the theory that exercise causes weight loss, so who knows.

Well, skin has a certain elasticity to it...so weight loss will result in
some skin shrinking...that's going to depend on the person...genetics,
how
much extra skin there is...how long...exercise, to the extent that it
allows
you to add some muscle to fill loose skin, will help too. But....

Who says exercise causes weight loss?

Apparently, it's these "oversimplifications" are the things that work
against us in getting a handle on things.

Who says exercise causes weight loss?
maybe not weight loss, but fat loss for sure.
now I'm working out 3 times per week and i can already see difference
in my celluliite zones and belly 🙂

It won't even cause fat loss if you're eating too much.
Exercise, in and of itself, is not responsible for fat/weight loss. It's
the combination of diet and exercise that results in a net caloric deficit,
placing your body in a catabolic state.

If you're seeing a difference, then you have found the magic that eludes
many. Good job.

Roger Zoul said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

"Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>> I've started a bodyweight exercise program myself, because I want to
>>> get stronger and I want to tighten up some of the flabby skin I've
>>> got that's only going to get flabbier as I lose weight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> I do not see the connection.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I've always heard here that exercise is the only way (short of plastic
> surgery) to tighten up loose skin. Of course, that's just as anecdotal
> as the theory that exercise causes weight loss, so who knows.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, skin has a certain elasticity to it...so weight loss will result in
some skin shrinking...that's going to depend on the person...genetics,
how
much extra skin there is...how long...exercise, to the extent that it
allows
you to add some muscle to fill loose skin, will help too. But....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Who says exercise causes weight loss?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Apparently, it's these "oversimplifications" are the things that work
against us in getting a handle on things.

Quoted message said:

Who says exercise causes weight loss?
maybe not weight loss, but fat loss for sure.
now I'm working out 3 times per week and i can already see difference
in my celluliite zones and belly 🙂

It won't even cause fat loss if you're eating too much.
Exercise, in and of itself, is not responsible for fat/weight loss. It's
the combination of diet and exercise that results in a net caloric deficit,
placing your body in a catabolic state.

I am an exerciser. Reading Taubes is making me question, just a bit,
at
least in terms of weight loss. Definitely wouldn't have the muscular
development I have (such as it is) without the exercise though, but
that's
not the same. Course, it might be two routes (complimentary routes)
towards the same goal. This is mountaintop stuff.

"Hollywood" <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Oct 8, 8:10 am, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> "Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

> > "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

> >>> I've started a bodyweight exercise program myself, because I want
> >>> to
> >>> get stronger and I want to tighten up some of the flabby skin I've
> >>> got that's only going to get flabbier as I lose weight.

Quoted message said:

> >> I do not see the connection.

Quoted message said:

> > I've always heard here that exercise is the only way (short of
> > plastic
> > surgery) to tighten up loose skin. Of course, that's just as
> > anecdotal
> > as the theory that exercise causes weight loss, so who knows.

Quoted message said:

> Well, skin has a certain elasticity to it...so weight loss will result
> in
> some skin shrinking...that's going to depend on the person...genetics,
> how
> much extra skin there is...how long...exercise, to the extent that it
> allows
> you to add some muscle to fill loose skin, will help too. But....

Quoted message said:

> Who says exercise causes weight loss?

Quoted message said:

> Apparently, it's these "oversimplifications" are the things that work
> against us in getting a handle on things.

Quoted message said:

Who says exercise causes weight loss?
maybe not weight loss, but fat loss for sure.
now I'm working out 3 times per week and i can already see difference
in my celluliite zones and belly 🙂

It won't even cause fat loss if you're eating too much.
Exercise, in and of itself, is not responsible for fat/weight loss. It's
the combination of diet and exercise that results in a net caloric
deficit,
placing your body in a catabolic state.

I am an exerciser. Reading Taubes is making me question, just a bit,
at
least in terms of weight loss. Definitely wouldn't have the muscular
development I have (such as it is) without the exercise though, but
that's
not the same. Course, it might be two routes (complimentary routes)
towards the same goal. This is mountaintop stuff.

I'm reading him too, albeit at a snell's pace (couple of pages a day).
Honestly, I don't care what he says to the opposite on that topic, he'll not
convince me it's untrue, at least for my body, anyway. I won't argue that
there may exist some people who are somehow metabolic outliers, but I'm not
one of them.

Roger Zoul said:

I'm reading him too, albeit at a snell's pace (couple of pages a day).
Honestly, I don't care what he says to the opposite on that topic, he'll not
convince me it's untrue, at least for my body, anyway. I won't argue that
there may exist some people who are somehow metabolic outliers, but I'm not
one of them.

So, I've had periods of exercise where the scale moved great. I've had
periods
where it didn't move (and the attendant tape measure as well). I've
had periods
of no exercise where it moved great. And I've had periods of no
exercise where
it moved not much.

On the flip side, Taubes kind of talks around adrenaline moving fat
out of storage
and into energy play. So, maybe there's something to exercise vs.
adiposity.

What I'm saying is, I like what I get from exercise, even if it
doesn't move me more
towards the scale goal. If it helps, that's bonus. But I cannot sit
and look and my
history of dieting and exercising, go over my spreadsheets with weight
data,
measurement data and exercise data, and tell you that there's any real
correlation,
much less causation. It's a weak study (one person, no study of other
factors), but
based on Taubes's recounting of the low fat + exercise research, it
might be up to
standard.

Hollywood said:

What I'm saying is, I like what I get from exercise, even if it
doesn't move me more towards the scale goal. If it helps, that's
bonus.

Exactly. Even if exercise slightly slows down weight loss, that's not
enough to counter all the good things it does for one's health.
Refusing to exercise on that basis would only make sense if one were
overweight but in perfect health in every other way, which isn't likely.
I don't think there's any question that, on balance, exercise does the
body good. I do have my doubts about certain kinds, like jogging,
though.

Quoted message said:

But I cannot sit and look and my history of dieting and exercising, go
over my spreadsheets with weight data, measurement data and exercise
data, and tell you that there's any real correlation, much less
causation. It's a weak study (one person, no study of other factors),
but based on Taubes's recounting of the low fat + exercise research,
it might be up to standard.

Heh. I'm starting to think that asking my dog questions and
having her answer by peeing on a big Bingo card of answers might be up
to the standard -- as long as she gets the "right" answers.

--
Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

Hollywood said:

But I cannot sit and look and my history of dieting and exercising,
go over my spreadsheets with weight data, measurement data and
exercise data, and tell you that there's any real correlation,
much less causation ...

Going over my history I find times of loss with and without exercise.
I find times of regain without exercise. I do NOT find times of
regain
with exercise.

So to me exercise is about keeping it off. If it helps or hurt during
the time of loss I can't say, but the time duration of loss is a LOT
shorter than the time durection of maintenance.

Doug Freyburger said:

Hollywood said:

But I cannot sit and look and my history of dieting and exercising,
go over my spreadsheets with weight data, measurement data and
exercise data, and tell you that there's any real correlation,
much less causation ...

Going over my history I find times of loss with and without exercise.
I find times of regain without exercise. I do NOT find times of
regain
with exercise.

I had a few weeks where I exercised hard core and regained. I was
eating like [censored] on travel, but my intervals and full body lifting
wasn't
protective. Bad science, I know.

I have, and suspect you also have, times of stall with exercise.

Quoted message said:

So to me exercise is about keeping it off. If it helps or hurt during
the time of loss I can't say, but the time duration of loss is a LOT
shorter than the time durection of maintenance.

I am not saying "don't exercise." No no no. And I don't think Taubes
is saying that either. It's just that it doesn't really move the
scale,
at least not as tested in labs (caveats up the whizzy with that one).
It might be they aren't testing the right stuff. It might be that the
studies
are flawed. But, it might be that it really is all about homeostasis,
carbs, insulin responsiveness in muscles vs. fat cells, and the war
between insulin and every other hormone about fat in/out of fat cells.

Last thing: Taubes later talks about adrenaline being a pretty good
mover of fat out of fat cells. If you could exercise, go low carbs,
get
your adrenaline up while your insulin is down, etc, maybe the exercise
might move the tape measure after. But is that the hormones or
the exercise?