Dip target muscle

In article <[email hidden]>,

JMW said:

David Cohen said:

Delenn said:

Lee Michaels wrote:
> "JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>Delenn <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>
>>>Speaking of which, we've been contemplating getting a border collie
>>>puppy. We know we ought not to. Talk me out of it, please.
>>
>>Why? They're great dogs, very eager to please. They do like to be
>>kept busy, though.
>
>
> I agree. They are not dogs that can just sit around the house all day.
> But
> if they are active enough (entertained enough?), they are fine.
>
> I remember years ago a friend who got a young border collie and was
> bringing
> it home. He thought the dog needed to releive himself, so he let him out
> at
> a park. It had baseball fields at the park with little league games
> going
> on. And the herding instinct kicked in. This half grown bordie collie
> went
> into a herding frenzy and herded all the kids on the field into the
> baseball
> backstop.
>
> The kids were upset and scared. The parents were furious. And since he
> just
> got the dog, he had no real infuence over him. When the dog got
> everybody
> packed against the backstop, he dashed in there, scooped up the dog and
> ran
> back to his truck with several angry parents chasing him.
>
> That dog had a leash on him everytime in public after that.
>
> Not to discourage you or anything. 😉

I know about them. My sister has border collies. It happened slowly,
but eventually the madness grew. First there were two of them and they
were trained for herding competitions. Then they got two more and they
also won competitions and then two more because, heck, why not.

Along the way they had to buy their dogs a flock of sheep, and
eventually some outside guard dogs to keep the coyotes away... yes, her
dogs have dogs. And they got a specially equipped travel trailer for
going to border collie competitions, and started doing Border Collie
rescue, and tiled their entire house, and now they've got a litter of
puppies (included in that 15 count).

I'm worried about the activity level. I'm home and available to take
him for a short run at lunchtime. I've also got two boys who have
signed up to do morning and afternoon walks.

NEVER get a dog assuming the kids will have anything to do with it.
Anything you get from the kids, or the husband, is a bonus. It's unfair
to the dog to assume otherwise. Get the dog for YOU.

Quoted message said:

We've got tennis balls and
wooded trails for running on, but we honestly don't take Ela (our Lab)
out running more than once or twice a week - a lot of our exercise is at
the gym or on bikes. I'm working as an accountant, not a forest ranger.
And we don't have a herd of sheep. Can an active family of five in a
suburban environment HAVE a border collie?

Sure, if "active" is stuff the dog can do, too. If "active" is the gym,
the Marxist Bridge Club, the Swinging Oldies Wife Swap Get Together,
and an occasional walk in the woods, no.

Border collies don't need a huge range. But they like to have a yard
to patrol.

Jewely has a fully fenced 1/4 acre yard to patrol...
She tends to "fence chase" when she is bored, but I've never seen the
harm in that activity?

Keeps her occupied when I'm at work and can't throw the frisbee.

She has tons of squeeky toys that she loves and squirrels to kill when
she can catch them. I also find the occasional dead rat.
We live on the edge of the 'burbs so there is a lot of wildlife.

I've had her for a bit over 2 years now and have never had a problem
with her......

The neighbors love her and my housekeepers kids (a 5 year old and a 3
year old) just ADORE her and she loves them too. They play, chase and
tumble around together. :-) I'm not sure that ALL BC's are good with
kids, but this one sure is! She is about 3 years old.

Adopted from the local animal shelter at approx. 10 months of age
according to my vet. She had run out of time and was 4 days from being
euthanized.

There seem to be a LOT of BC's killed at the shelters in this area. :-(

What a waste.......
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

On 26 May 2005 21:49:15 -0700, "David Cohen" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

JMW said:

David Cohen said:

JMW wrote:
> Delenn <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >David Cohen wrote:
> >> "JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote
> >>>"fj" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >>>>"JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >>>>>fj wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>If I want to focus on Pecs(or Tricep),
> >>>>>>how do you adjust your form?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The more forward you lean, or the more you flex your spine, the more
> >>>>>emphasis you place on your pectoral muscles, and the less you emphasis
> >>>>>you place on triceps.
> >>>>
> >>>>you are not talking about bench press, are you?
> >>>
> >>>Why would I be talking about bench press?
> >>
> >>
> >> Because the subject is "dip target muscle", which has absolutely nothing to
> >> do with bench press, so, this being MFW, getting as far off topic as
> >> possible is pretty normal.
> >>
> >> You ARE talking about lesbian powerlifting gun-toting dogs doing dips,
> >> aren't you?
> >
> >Speaking of which, we've been contemplating getting a border collie
> >puppy. We know we ought not to. Talk me out of it, please.
>
> Why? They're great dogs, very eager to please. They do like to be
> kept busy, though.

Exactly. As long as she knows what she's getting into. Border Collie's
are highly active working dogs that want...NEED...a job to do. Herding
sheep, competing in flyball, or agility, or doing lots of hiking,
or...whatever. A bored Border Collie is an ugly concept.

I grew up with a border collie. She was a great dog. Smart, too.
Actually, too smart. She figured out how to open door knobs with her
teeth.

We now must consider the issue: is a Border Collie too smart for our
liberal Massechesetts name-changing prospective owner?

Whatever you do don't mention name, profession or domicile just in
case the children Google and find out that she posts here and at other
less salubrious locations.

I think it is not fair to put that kind of responsibility on a working
dog, who will be too far to the right politically if it's a dog, and a
bleeding heart feminist politically correct [censored] if it's not!! ;o)

Have a great weekend - it's a Bank Holiday weekend for us Brits, so it
looms temptingly before me!! ;o)

TFIF!!

Delenn said:

Lee Michaels said:

"JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Delenn <[email hidden]> wrote:

>David Cohen wrote:
>
>>"JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote
>>
>>>"fj" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>fj wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>If I want to focus on Pecs(or Tricep),
>>>>>>how do you adjust your form?
>>>>>
>>>>>The more forward you lean, or the more you flex your spine, the more
>>>>>emphasis you place on your pectoral muscles, and the less you emphasis
>>>>>you place on triceps.
>>>>
>>>>you are not talking about bench press, are you?
>>>
>>>Why would I be talking about bench press?
>>
>>
>>Because the subject is "dip target muscle", which has absolutely nothing
>>to
>>do with bench press, so, this being MFW, getting as far off topic as
>>possible is pretty normal.
>>
>>You ARE talking about lesbian powerlifting gun-toting dogs doing dips,
>>aren't you?
>
>Speaking of which, we've been contemplating getting a border collie
>puppy. We know we ought not to. Talk me out of it, please.

Why? They're great dogs, very eager to please. They do like to be
kept busy, though.

I agree. They are not dogs that can just sit around the house all day. But
if they are active enough (entertained enough?), they are fine.

I remember years ago a friend who got a young border collie and was bringing
it home. He thought the dog needed to releive himself, so he let him out at
a park. It had baseball fields at the park with little league games going
on. And the herding instinct kicked in. This half grown bordie collie went
into a herding frenzy and herded all the kids on the field into the baseball
backstop.

The kids were upset and scared. The parents were furious. And since he just
got the dog, he had no real infuence over him. When the dog got everybody
packed against the backstop, he dashed in there, scooped up the dog and ran
back to his truck with several angry parents chasing him.

That dog had a leash on him everytime in public after that.

Not to discourage you or anything. 😉

I know about them. My sister has border collies. It happened slowly,
but eventually the madness grew. First there were two of them and they
were trained for herding competitions. Then they got two more and they
also won competitions and then two more because, heck, why not.

Along the way they had to buy their dogs a flock of sheep, and
eventually some outside guard dogs to keep the coyotes away... yes, her
dogs have dogs. And they got a specially equipped travel trailer for
going to border collie competitions, and started doing Border Collie
rescue, and tiled their entire house, and now they've got a litter of
puppies (included in that 15 count).

I'm worried about the activity level. I'm home and available to take
him for a short run at lunchtime. I've also got two boys who have
signed up to do morning and afternoon walks. We've got tennis balls and
wooded trails for running on, but we honestly don't take Ela (our Lab)
out running more than once or twice a week - a lot of our exercise is at
the gym or on bikes. I'm working as an accountant, not a forest ranger.
And we don't have a herd of sheep. Can an active family of five in a
suburban environment HAVE a border collie? I'd rate us as better than
average dog owners, but border collies are sort of the big league in
terms of need.

Come on Dally, you know the answer to that, stop being so ingenuously
girly!!

Have a great weekend - you know I will!! ;o)

TFIF!!

Jeff said:

fj said:

If I want to focus on Pecs(or Tricep), how do you adjust your form?

No matter what you do, you will involve the pecs and anterior delts to
a large degree. You can put the majority of the emphasis on the
triceps by keeping as upright as possible while dipping and keeping
the elbows closer to your body. You'll also wind up putting a ton of
stress on your anterior delts this way, but there is no way around it.
If you want to do dips more so as a pec exercise lean forward while
dipping and let the elbows flare out more, almost like a decline
press. Some gyms have a v-shaped dipping bar. If your's does the
wider your grip is the more you'll hit the pecs and vice versa for the
triceps.

And what exactly has this to do with border collies? A great answer but
OT. We progressed from dip target to bench press in a short time and
logically moving on the dogs. I expect the next twist in the thread to
introduce Dipping sheep (which collies love to take care of).

Can anybody comment on good form form sheep dipping? Or would cattle
dipping be better?

--
Bob Volkmer
rev@IRC

In article <[email hidden]>,

rev *an* said:

Jeff said:

fj said:

If I want to focus on Pecs(or Tricep), how do you adjust your form?

No matter what you do, you will involve the pecs and anterior delts to
a large degree. You can put the majority of the emphasis on the
triceps by keeping as upright as possible while dipping and keeping
the elbows closer to your body. You'll also wind up putting a ton of
stress on your anterior delts this way, but there is no way around it.
If you want to do dips more so as a pec exercise lean forward while
dipping and let the elbows flare out more, almost like a decline
press. Some gyms have a v-shaped dipping bar. If your's does the
wider your grip is the more you'll hit the pecs and vice versa for the
triceps.

And what exactly has this to do with border collies? A great answer but
OT. We progressed from dip target to bench press in a short time and
logically moving on the dogs. I expect the next twist in the thread to
introduce Dipping sheep (which collies love to take care of).

Can anybody comment on good form form sheep dipping? Or would cattle
dipping be better?

I'm sure that any commercial feed store will have a good sheep dipping
product. Our feed store has an annual mid-summer dog dip for $1.00 per
dog.....

Actually, now that the thread has moved on to dogs, it will next go to
guns. ;-)

So, David, which is better?

A .357 or a 9mm?

Revolver or SA?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

rev *an* said:

Jeff said:

fj said:

If I want to focus on Pecs(or Tricep), how do you adjust your form?

No matter what you do, you will involve the pecs and anterior delts to
a large degree. You can put the majority of the emphasis on the
triceps by keeping as upright as possible while dipping and keeping
the elbows closer to your body. You'll also wind up putting a ton of
stress on your anterior delts this way, but there is no way around it.
If you want to do dips more so as a pec exercise lean forward while
dipping and let the elbows flare out more, almost like a decline
press. Some gyms have a v-shaped dipping bar. If your's does the
wider your grip is the more you'll hit the pecs and vice versa for the
triceps.

And what exactly has this to do with border collies? A great answer but
OT. We progressed from dip target to bench press in a short time and
logically moving on the dogs. I expect the next twist in the thread to
introduce Dipping sheep (which collies love to take care of).

Can anybody comment on good form form sheep dipping? Or would cattle
dipping be better?

On our farm in Cornwall we had two splendid Welsh Collies, Rascal and
Nelson. Unfortunately, Rascal was either dyslexic or left-handed, as
he got his 'away' and 'come bye' 180 degrees out of sync.

[The command 'away' is to tell the dog to break right and circle
anti-clockwise, while 'come bye' means the opposite.]

It meant handling the sheep, particularly on dipping days, was rather
more complicated than it might have been, as Nelson was orthodox.

We had a new state of the art sheep dip built during the 80's and the
obligatory Vet from the Min of Ag attending, was absolutely amazed
when my wife appeared in a lovely summer dress and picture hat,
accompanied by our housekeeper Joyce with a tray of glasses, together
with a group of family and friends, and me with several bottles of
Bollinger.

She then ceremoniously cut the tape, while I dispensed the Champagne
to all assembled, and formally 'opened' the new dip!!

My children thought it an absolute hoot!!

Have a great weekend - I intend to; may even open some 'Bolly'!! ;o)

TFIF!!

In article <[email hidden]>,

Charles said:

rev *an* said:

Jeff said:

On Thu, 26 May 2005 12:17:35 -0700, "fj" <[email hidden]> wrote:

>If I want to focus on Pecs(or Tricep), how do you adjust your form?

No matter what you do, you will involve the pecs and anterior delts to
a large degree. You can put the majority of the emphasis on the
triceps by keeping as upright as possible while dipping and keeping
the elbows closer to your body. You'll also wind up putting a ton of
stress on your anterior delts this way, but there is no way around it.
If you want to do dips more so as a pec exercise lean forward while
dipping and let the elbows flare out more, almost like a decline
press. Some gyms have a v-shaped dipping bar. If your's does the
wider your grip is the more you'll hit the pecs and vice versa for the
triceps.

And what exactly has this to do with border collies? A great answer but
OT. We progressed from dip target to bench press in a short time and
logically moving on the dogs. I expect the next twist in the thread to
introduce Dipping sheep (which collies love to take care of).

Can anybody comment on good form form sheep dipping? Or would cattle
dipping be better?

On our farm in Cornwall we had two splendid Welsh Collies, Rascal and
Nelson. Unfortunately, Rascal was either dyslexic or left-handed, as
he got his 'away' and 'come bye' 180 degrees out of sync.

[The command 'away' is to tell the dog to break right and circle
anti-clockwise, while 'come bye' means the opposite.]

It meant handling the sheep, particularly on dipping days, was rather
more complicated than it might have been, as Nelson was orthodox.

We had a new state of the art sheep dip built during the 80's and the
obligatory Vet from the Min of Ag attending, was absolutely amazed
when my wife appeared in a lovely summer dress and picture hat,
accompanied by our housekeeper Joyce with a tray of glasses, together
with a group of family and friends, and me with several bottles of
Bollinger.

She then ceremoniously cut the tape, while I dispensed the Champagne
to all assembled, and formally 'opened' the new dip!!

My children thought it an absolute hoot!!

Have a great weekend - I intend to; may even open some 'Bolly'!! ;o)

TFIF!!

Sounds like the lady always does things in style...... ;-)

I have this weekend off for once.

Might fire up the grill and do a garlic and herb pork shoulder roast.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

Charles said:

Delenn said:

Can an active family of five in a
suburban environment HAVE a border collie? I'd rate us as better than
average dog owners, but border collies are sort of the big league in
terms of need.

Come on Dally, you know the answer to that, stop being so ingenuously
girly!!

I know there's a reason that Old Man's BC was four days from euthenasia
in the shelter, and why my sister does BC rescue. I suspect
well-intentioned sedentary mothers of three might be a big part of it.

D.

Charles said:

[The command 'away' is to tell the dog to break right and circle
anti-clockwise, while 'come bye' means the opposite.]

I've found the border collie commands my sister uses to be useful when
herding my three children. I actually call "away to me" to my older
child when the youngest is straying and needs to be brought back into
the fold. Luckily, they think being given dog commands is normal. We
really have integrated my sister's border collies into the family - we
refer to them as my children's cousins.

I wonder if they could be trained to herd paperwork. I need someone to
call clients up and remind them to bring in the last piece of info.
That's herding, right?

Delenn, dreaming

Delenn said:

Charles said:

Delenn said:

Can an active family of five in a
suburban environment HAVE a border collie? I'd rate us as better than
average dog owners, but border collies are sort of the big league in
terms of need.

Come on Dally, you know the answer to that, stop being so ingenuously
girly!!

I know there's a reason that Old Man's BC was four days from euthenasia
in the shelter, and why my sister does BC rescue. I suspect
well-intentioned sedentary mothers of three might be a big part of it.

The answer of course is that you must 'adopt' a puppy that will fit in
with *your* lifestyle, because it will be *your* dog, no matter how
much your children may adore it.

If you spend much of your time working in your office at home, as I
know you do, then you need a companionable chum who is happy to sit in
the kneehole of your desk, and keep you company. Who will be happy to
look after the car when you go for your workout, and will go crazy
when you show him/her the lead, which normally indicates time for
'walkies'!!

It's no good acquiring a boisterous dog that demands and deserves lots
of attention.

HAGW!! ;o)

TFIF!!

Delenn said:

Charles said:

[The command 'away' is to tell the dog to break right and circle
anti-clockwise, while 'come bye' means the opposite.]

I've found the border collie commands my sister uses to be useful when
herding my three children. I actually call "away to me" to my older
child when the youngest is straying and needs to be brought back into
the fold. Luckily, they think being given dog commands is normal. We
really have integrated my sister's border collies into the family - we
refer to them as my children's cousins.

Families are just the greatest relationship, and dogs have always been
an integral part of all our families' families since forever. They are
remarkable with children and very defensive of them, and the children
respond to them wonderfully, particularly if the dogs are well
trained.

Quoted message said:

I wonder if they could be trained to herd paperwork. I need someone to
call clients up and remind them to bring in the last piece of info.
That's herding, right?

Delenn, dreaming

It's a nice idea, but yes, Delenn is dreaming!! ;o)

HAGW!! ;o)

TFIF!!

DZ said:

Charles said:

rev *an* said:

Jeff wrote:
> "fj" <[email hidden]> wrote:

On our farm in Cornwall we had

Sorry. To me, it's "Holiday home"

It is now but it wasn't then!! ;o)

Must fly!!

HAGW!!

TFIF!!

What did you guys turn my thread into? How did it happen?

BTW, I don't have dogs but I will have a JackRusell Terrier one day. They
look really cute.

-fj

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

rev *an* said:

Jeff said:

On Thu, 26 May 2005 12:17:35 -0700, "fj" <[email hidden]> wrote:

>If I want to focus on Pecs(or Tricep), how do you adjust your form?

No matter what you do, you will involve the pecs and anterior delts to
a large degree. You can put the majority of the emphasis on the
triceps by keeping as upright as possible while dipping and keeping
the elbows closer to your body. You'll also wind up putting a ton of
stress on your anterior delts this way, but there is no way around it.
If you want to do dips more so as a pec exercise lean forward while
dipping and let the elbows flare out more, almost like a decline
press. Some gyms have a v-shaped dipping bar. If your's does the
wider your grip is the more you'll hit the pecs and vice versa for the
triceps.

And what exactly has this to do with border collies? A great answer but
OT. We progressed from dip target to bench press in a short time and
logically moving on the dogs. I expect the next twist in the thread to
introduce Dipping sheep (which collies love to take care of).

Can anybody comment on good form form sheep dipping? Or would cattle
dipping be better?

I'm sure that any commercial feed store will have a good sheep dipping
product. Our feed store has an annual mid-summer dog dip for $1.00 per
dog.....

Actually, now that the thread has moved on to dogs, it will next go to
guns. ;-)

So, David, which is better?

A .357 or a 9mm?

Revolver or SA?

Define "better". Define the scenario.

It depends. (No $ until Lyle stops by for a visit)

David
David

Quoted message said:

--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack
Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>, Delenn <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Charles said:

Delenn said:

Can an active family of five in a
suburban environment HAVE a border collie? I'd rate us as better than
average dog owners, but border collies are sort of the big league in
terms of need.

Come on Dally, you know the answer to that, stop being so ingenuously
girly!!

I know there's a reason that Old Man's BC was four days from euthenasia
in the shelter, and why my sister does BC rescue. I suspect
well-intentioned sedentary mothers of three might be a big part of it.

D.

Just people that have no idea what they are getting in to when they
adopt these delightful but very active animals. ;-)
I did not know what I was getting myself into either when I adopted
mine, but I have no regrets! I simply accomodated her.

She is a wonderful dog!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

"fj" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

What did you guys turn my thread into? How did it happen?

It's easy. We are experienced professional thread OT'ers. Do not try this at
home.

Quoted message said:

BTW, I don't have dogs but I will have a JackRusell Terrier one day. They
look really cute.

Great reason to get one. They're such laid-back couch potatoes, what could
go wrong?

David

In article said:

What did you guys turn my thread into? How did it happen?

BTW, I don't have dogs but I will have a JackRusell Terrier one day. They
look really cute.

-fj

Oh lord...

You'd best study up on those dogs!
They are more than just "cute".

They can be a real handful!
Great dogs, but you'd better have time for them!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

David Cohen said:

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

rev *an* said:

Jeff wrote:
> On Thu, 26 May 2005 12:17:35 -0700, "fj" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>
>>If I want to focus on Pecs(or Tricep), how do you adjust your form?
>
>
> No matter what you do, you will involve the pecs and anterior delts to
> a large degree. You can put the majority of the emphasis on the
> triceps by keeping as upright as possible while dipping and keeping
> the elbows closer to your body. You'll also wind up putting a ton of
> stress on your anterior delts this way, but there is no way around it.
> If you want to do dips more so as a pec exercise lean forward while
> dipping and let the elbows flare out more, almost like a decline
> press. Some gyms have a v-shaped dipping bar. If your's does the
> wider your grip is the more you'll hit the pecs and vice versa for the
> triceps.

And what exactly has this to do with border collies? A great answer but
OT. We progressed from dip target to bench press in a short time and
logically moving on the dogs. I expect the next twist in the thread to
introduce Dipping sheep (which collies love to take care of).

Can anybody comment on good form form sheep dipping? Or would cattle
dipping be better?

I'm sure that any commercial feed store will have a good sheep dipping
product. Our feed store has an annual mid-summer dog dip for $1.00 per
dog.....

Actually, now that the thread has moved on to dogs, it will next go to
guns. ;-)

So, David, which is better?

A .357 or a 9mm?

Revolver or SA?

Define "better". Define the scenario.

It depends. (No $ until Lyle stops by for a visit)

David

One for home defense, (stopping power)
and one for licensed carry.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article said:

What did you guys turn my thread into? How did it happen?

BTW, I don't have dogs but I will have a JackRusell Terrier one day. They
look really cute.

Oh lord...

You'd best study up on those dogs!
They are more than just "cute".

They can be a real handful!
Great dogs, but you'd better have time for them!

Aw, Jacks aren't that bad. They're only like a raising a child.

--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

David Cohen said:

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
rev <[email hidden]*an*> wrote:

> Jeff wrote:
> > On Thu, 26 May 2005 12:17:35 -0700, "fj" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>If I want to focus on Pecs(or Tricep), how do you adjust your form?
> >
> >
> > No matter what you do, you will involve the pecs and anterior delts to
> > a large degree. You can put the majority of the emphasis on the
> > triceps by keeping as upright as possible while dipping and keeping
> > the elbows closer to your body. You'll also wind up putting a ton of
> > stress on your anterior delts this way, but there is no way around it.
> > If you want to do dips more so as a pec exercise lean forward while
> > dipping and let the elbows flare out more, almost like a decline
> > press. Some gyms have a v-shaped dipping bar. If your's does the
> > wider your grip is the more you'll hit the pecs and vice versa for the
> > triceps.
>
> And what exactly has this to do with border collies? A great answer but
> OT. We progressed from dip target to bench press in a short time and
> logically moving on the dogs. I expect the next twist in the thread to
> introduce Dipping sheep (which collies love to take care of).
>
> Can anybody comment on good form form sheep dipping? Or would cattle
> dipping be better?

I'm sure that any commercial feed store will have a good sheep dipping
product. Our feed store has an annual mid-summer dog dip for $1.00 per
dog.....

Actually, now that the thread has moved on to dogs, it will next go to
guns. ;-)

So, David, which is better?

A .357 or a 9mm?

Revolver or SA?

Define "better". Define the scenario.

It depends. (No $ until Lyle stops by for a visit)

David

One for home defense, (stopping power)
and one for licensed carry.

Then one of each. Big .357, small 9mm.
--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net