Disabled Cycling Tours

"Bob Matter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%XxZ9.74483$AV4.3286@sccrnsc01...

Quoted message said:

Hi:

I'm new to the group, but I was wondering if I could solicit some advice. I'm in the process of
starting a non-profit entity designed to promote cycling tours for people with disabilities and
their families. I'm

leaning

Quoted message said:

toward the people with developmental disabilities. As the father of a 12 year old with various
disabilities, I got him into cycling last year and have never been able to find suitable
recreational activities that we

could

Quoted message said:

do together (thus the birth of this idea).

Would you have any advice on getting the business up and running (e.g. liability insurance) and
whether the idea is feasible? We live in

Colorado,

Quoted message said:

and the trips are going to be mostly 2-4 day tours of 20-30 miles on adaptive tandems over flat
terrain. I'm planning on starting day trips

the

Quoted message said:

first week of June followed by weekend longer tours the same month. By

the

Quoted message said:

second year, I plan on offering week long tours within and outside of the state of Colorado.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Bob Matter

Sorry I don't have any advice regarding liability insurance, etc. But as the parent of a 37 year old
developmentally disabled adult I can tell you I would be interested in such a service. My daughter
often rides with the family but we limit those trips to around 20 miles. I'm sure she could do
longer distances on some type of tandem. Sounds like a great idea and I hope you successful in
getting started.

Please keep us posted.

Beverly

Bob Matter said:

I'm new to the group, but I was wondering if I could solicit some advice. I'm in the process of
starting a non-profit entity designed to promote cycling tours for people with disabilities and
their families.

Quoted message said:

Would you have any advice on getting the business up and running (e.g. liability insurance) and
whether the idea is feasible?

I don't have any advice, but it might be worth while for you to compare notes with the people who
run therapeutic horseback riding centers. I live a few miles from one of the first-ever of those.
<http://www.cheffcenter.com/> The mission of this one may have morphed over time, and is probably
not exactly what you have in mind. But I see some things you might have in common.

I don't happen to know anyone who currently works at the Cheff Center, but I know a professional who
did for a few years. (I tried to get her husband and son interested in bicycling with me on the
roads, they tried to get me interested in trail riding, and we never did get together. Now they've
moved away.) If you have trouble finding anyone to else to talk to, I could probably come up with
her e-mail address.

John Gorentz

Quoted message said:

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Bob Matter

Hi, Bob.

I live in Colorado and am the parent of an adult child with a developmental disability. Although
unable to ride a 2 wheeler, he does do short rides of about 3 miles on a 3 wheeler, with me
walking with him.

A couple of suggestions:

1. I am the moderator of the PAD-CO listserv group with membership exclusively for parents of
adults with disabilities in Colorado. We now have 46 members, all very active, and pretty much
the elite of parents "in the know" in the state.

2. I am also a member of P2P-CO listserv which is aimed at parents of younger children and has
about 550 members.

3. The local ARC's all have newsletters and communication into the community.

4. As you are probably aware, the CCB's all have input into the community.

5. And I am sure you are aware of the therapeutic horse riding program in Parker - Praying Hands
Ranch. As previously suggested, they would have a lot of insight into an area such as this.

6. I personally ran a program for 10 years providing work-related day services for individuals with
profound disabilities, and am personally aware of such things as 501(c)3's, foundations and
other organizations who might give financial support, Boards of Director's, insurance, etc.

7. Of course, we have the National Center for (?? Disabled Sports ??) in Winter Park

8. I would think this might be a project that some of the local bike clubs might want to have an
involvement. DBTC, RM, Team Evergreen, Highlands Ranch, etc., all are active and vital biking
clubs. - and Bicycle Colorado.

Feel free to contact me personally at

[email hidden]

If you so desire.

Good luck. Sounds like an interesting idea filled with challenges.

I would thi

members.aol.comfoxcondorsrvtnsOpen ↗ (Colorado rental condo)

members.aol.comdnvrfoxOpen ↗ (Family Web Page)

Bob Matter said:

Hi:

I'm new to the group, but I was wondering if I could solicit some advice. I'm in the process of
starting a non-profit entity designed to promote cycling tours for people with disabilities and
their families. I'm leaning toward the people with developmental disabilities.

You might want to get in touch with a group called World Team Sports.
worldteamsports.orgworldteamsports.orgOpen ↗

I've never been on the rides but they do some major bike events including people with disabilities.
Even if the events are of no interest to you there is probably some information that's of use.

Al Sharff

--
****************************************************************
To reply remove the * from [email hidden]
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Bob said:

...starting a non-profit entity designed to promote cycling tours for people with disabilities and
their families. ... Would you have any advice on getting the business up and running (e.g.
liability insurance) and whether the idea is feasible? We live in Colorado, and the trips are
going to be mostly 2-4 day tours of 20-30 miles on adaptive tandems over flat terrain. I'm
planning on starting day trips the first week of June followed by weekend longer tours the same
month. By the second year, I plan on offering week long tours within and outside of the state of
Colorado.

The ARC of Western Wayne County (in Michigan) has an active cycling program. They are regulars at
all the local invitational rides. Some clients ride single bikes, others need tandems (I unloaded
an albatross on 'em, and they were happy to get it). Sorry I don't have a URL. (As soon as I hit
the send button I'll remember the name of the guy who runs it. John something.) You might offer
the option of tours that serve as respite for families. Caregivers need breaks, too, and maybe
they don't want to get all kitted out for 20-40 mile rides (or maybe they don't ride at all).
Like summer camp for the clients, with a home-based vacation for their families. I bet you can
find grants and sponsors for this. HTH --Karen M.

Karen M. said:

The ARC of Western Wayne County (in Michigan) has an active cycling program. They are regulars
at all the local invitational rides. Some clients ride single bikes, others need tandems (I
unloaded an albatross on 'em, and they were happy to get it). Sorry I don't have a URL. (As
soon as I hit the send button I'll remember the name of the guy who runs it. John something.)
You might offer the option of tours that serve as respite for families. Caregivers need breaks,
too, and maybe they don't want to get all kitted out for 20-40 mile rides (or maybe they don't
ride at all). Like summer camp for the clients, with a home-based vacation for their families.

Ever since Bob posted his initial message, I've been asking myself if I would ever do volunteer work
for an organiztion like that if there was one nearby. I wouldn't know for sure until I knew exactly
what the organization does. But I'd like to make one comment on your idea of a "respite for
families."

I do occasional volunteer work for a Saturday morning science program for elementary school-aged
students at my workplace. (Some years I've done more than I've been doing lately.) It's a program in
which parents are encouraged to get involved. Sometimes it's better when they're not working on the
same projects with their own children, but there are things for parents to do -- lead sessions of
their own, mentoring, organizational things, etc. What DOESN'T work so well is when parents think of
it as a Saturday morning day care service where they can dump their kids while they do other things
during the day. We greatly discourage that, and try to make known up front that we want the parents
to be involved. It is much easier to get other volunteers to help with the program if they know that
this isn't just a Saturday morning dumping place for receiving other peoples' kids. The kids who
take part in this program tend to be your better students, but that doesn't mean there aren't
behavioral problems that outside volunteers aren't equipped to handle.

Now most of us would be a lot more sympathetic to the parent of a disabled child who needs a break
from caregiving than we would be to some of these parents. But I'll bet there are some people who
would volunteer to help caregivers and dependents do bicycle touring together who would not be as
inclined (or equipped) to give caregivers a respite.

I don't know if this is relevant to what Bob Matter has in mind -- I don't know to what extent his
program would use volunteers. But it's a perspective to keep in mind.

John Gorentz

Denver C. Fox said:

Quoted message said:

It's a program in which parents are encouraged to get involved.

Parents of children with disabilities have few, if any, opportunities to be by themselves. If the
disability is severe at all, there are multidinous pressures on the family unit including often
intense medical issues, fights to get proper school placements and services, limited financial
resources because, frequently, one parent must be at home to provide care, and also major bills
not covered by insurance or other programs, etc., etc. I could go on and on.

The points you make are certainly important and worth making known.

I was saying what I did to point out that it is not a small matter (pun unintended) for Bob Matter
to choose between offering a program that offers a parental respite vs one that's intended for
parents and children to do together. I'd bet the former would require a lot higher ratio of
professional staff to volunteers, and require a lot greater level of training for the volunteers,
and the volunteer pool would be a lot smaller.

I think it would be great for him to do either kind of program. He mentioned one that would be for
parents and dependents to do together. I'd hate for him to be put off because he isn't doing the
other type.

On another, though related, aspect of this. Someone (Karen M?) mentioned getting grants and
sponsors. It seems one can get a grant to do just about anything new and innovative. Government as
well as private programs seem to abound for this. What is extremely difficult is to get a grant for
covering the ongoing costs of operations. So one might as well plan upfront for making the program
sustain itself economically. In fact, having such a plan is a key to success in getting a grant to
get a program started.

John Gorentz

John wrote (about something I wrote):

Quoted message said:

...But I'd like to make one comment on your idea of a "respite for families."

I do occasional volunteer work for a Saturday morning science program for elementary school-aged
students ...It's a program in which parents are encouraged to get involved. Sometimes it's better
when they're not working on the same projects with their own children, but there are things for
parents to do -- lead sessions of their own, mentoring, organizational things, etc. What DOESN'T
work so well is when parents think of it as a Saturday morning day care service where they can
dump their kids while they do other things during the day....

Participating in a program with one's relatively normal (high-energy) child is somewhat different
from the circumstance of
24/7 care for a disabled adult child. Locally there's a guy who's paralyzed on one side of his body;
he rides an adult trike and does centuries, and raises money for good causes. (He doesn't think
of himself as needing assistance.) I doubt his family can keep up with him. There are other folks
who have challenges that exclude their leg power. Your typical overwrought aging parents of a
disabled adult might have their own health issues, not to mention wanting/needing some time off.
A buddy of mine runs a city's therapeutic rec program, with about 250 clients in town and
environs. They have perhaps three staff to shepherd groups of up to 50 on outings. Granted, they
aren't cycling (20 miles a day on flat terrain) but I've seen plenty of developmentally disabled
folks who are able to propel themselves around a closed course bike event. And, having
participated in family home care for someone in a coma (again, 24/7) and someone else in hospice,
I can vouch for the need to "get away" and be "normal" for a few hours. HTH

--Karen M. The Western Wayne ARC bicycle guy: John Waterman Short-term memory is the second
thing to go.

Karen M. said:

And, having participated in family home care for someone in a coma (again, 24/7) and someone
else in hospice, I can vouch for the need to "get away" and be "normal" for a few hours.

You've probably seen my more recent comments on this, but I'll add one more item.

A Bob Matter might do well to begin as he planned -- to offer tours for people with disabilities and
their families. I'm sure he understands as well as anyone else the need for caregivers to get away.
Maybe if the first part went well, he could then branch out into the more difficult task of
providing tours for people with disabilities so their families could get a break. Baby steps, etc.
He might even find that some of his earlier volunteers have grown in skill and confidence along with
his program, so they could help out with some of the more difficult tasks, too.

I'm making a lot of assumptions about what he has in mind, of course.

John Gorentz

I wanted thank all of you for your advice. I didn't want to give too many details due to the whole
issue being rather intensive, but I thought I'd clarify a little on what I'm trying to do and how
I'm envisioning doing it.

What this idea has evolved to is this (at least for this first year of business): 2-4 day tours for
families 3 weekends a month. That thought came from my inability to find things to do together with
my son. The fourth weekend of the month will be dedicated to parents/guardians wanting to get away,
or respite vacation. I've been working to find respite workers who are willing to work over the
weekend and provide care in the house for the parents while they are gone. The other thought is that
on the family tours, if a parent can't ride (or doesn't want to), I will have "riders" available for
hire to spend the day with the person. The parents will have the day to spend doing whatever they
want, and be responsible for the person from dinner to breakfast. As mentioned in a previous post, I
don't want this to become a daycare program, but rather an opportunity to have a family vacation. Of
course, this will be a constantly evolving project and somethings may work and others not.

Next year I plan on adding week long tours within Colorado and outside. I am hoping to take 3 tours
a year outside to see the world. I'm planning on Newfoundland for 2 weeks next summer and,
hopefully, Vermont this coming October. I want my child to be able to see the world and, to me,
there's no better way than on the back of a bike. Even if he doesn't get anything out of it, I'll
have a memory to last a lifetime.

I've heard from a professional grant writer that I spoke with that there are no funds out there for
startups such as this. If anyone has any advice to the contrary, I would be most appreciative if you
shared it. I'm pretty sure there's no such program like this in existence (at least in the U.S.), so
I'm charting some new territory here and can use the help.

For those of you interested, I do have a website put up, but it's rather on the anemic side. I've
been planning an update for the past several weeks, but my son has kept me rather busy. However,
more information will be up by the end of the weekend. I hope I don't offend anyone here, but the
URL to the website is www.assistedcyclingtours.org.

Thanks, Bob

"John Gorentz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Karen M. said:

And, having participated in family home care for someone in a coma (again, 24/7) and someone
else in hospice, I can vouch for the need to "get away" and be "normal" for a few hours.

You've probably seen my more recent comments on this, but I'll add one more item.

A Bob Matter might do well to begin as he planned -- to offer tours for people with disabilities
and their families. I'm sure he understands as well as anyone else the need for caregivers to get
away. Maybe if the first part went well, he could then branch out into the more difficult task of
providing tours for people with disabilities so their families could get a break. Baby steps, etc.
He might even find that some of his earlier volunteers have grown in skill and confidence along
with his program, so they could help out with some of the more difficult tasks, too.

I'm making a lot of assumptions about what he has in mind, of course.

John Gorentz

Great idea, Bob. As a mom of a 3 year old for 17 years (actually he is 20 now), I have always been
reluctant to participate in certain events with my son as others often don't understand that he has
special needs. He has gone bicycle touring with the family, on our own and it gets the heart rate
up. Not because we got fast or do anything strenous, but because we always have to be quick to
respond to any of his moves. He doesn't understand all traffic rules and we act as buffers between
him and traffic. We did try a tandem, but if he were afraid of something, he would just jump of the
back of the seat.

He loves bike riding, which is amazing as the doctors said he would never be able to ride. We find
that low traffic rail trails are perfect places for him to ride.

As far as respite goes, it would be a great option. And those who think that respite is simply
dropping off the child for free time, does obviously does not live with a special needs child.

theresa

Bob Matter said:

Hi:

I'm new to the group, but I was wondering if I could solicit some advice. I'm in the process of
starting a non-profit entity designed to promote cycling tours for people with disabilities and
their families. I'm leaning toward the people with developmental disabilities. As the father of a
12 year old with various disabilities, I got him into cycling last year and have never been able
to find suitable recreational activities that we could do together (thus the birth of this idea).

Would you have any advice on getting the business up and running (e.g. liability insurance) and
whether the idea is feasible? We live in Colorado, and the trips are going to be mostly 2-4 day
tours of 20-30 miles on adaptive tandems over flat terrain. I'm planning on starting day trips the
first week of June followed by weekend longer tours the same month. By the second year, I plan on
offering week long tours within and outside of the state of Colorado.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Bob Matter

"Bob Matter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I've heard from a professional grant writer that I spoke with that there are no funds out there
for startups such as this. If anyone has any advice to the contrary, I would be most appreciative
if you shared it.

Personally, I think this is not true. Perhaps the grant writer you spoke to doesn't know of funds
for this sort of venture, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. In fact, complaints in the
nonprofit world usually run the other way -- there's lots of money for new programs. The hard thing
is finding money to keep the lights on, and buy a new ream of letterhead, year after year.

Like any other business start-up, you'll need a solid business plan. Donors are investors. They are
looking for a social return, not a financial one, but they aren't going to put money into your idea
unless you look like you know what you are doing and will squander their money.

Another thought is that you may not want to run this as an independent nonprofit. There's a lot of
overhead in setting up and running your own organization. Is there an existing organization that
serves people with disabilities that you could work with instead? You would have the benefit of
using their own 501(c)(3) status, board, donor and volunteer base. They would have the benefit of
having a new program, already well-thought-out, that they could use to attract further donors (see
that bit above about foundations only giving to new programs) and further serve their target
population. If later you decide to go your separate ways, you can spin yourself off.

I am currently volunteering with a start-up nonprofit that for three years was a program of a larger
organization. It took some negotiation, but we are now separate from them, and setting up our own
501(c)(3) status. About a year ago there was some tough negotiations between the director of our
program and the director of the larger organization, but in the end, they were able to
make peace and wish each other well. This, however, takes maturity and good communications
for it to really work.

You also might want to take a quick look over at soc.organization.nonprofit, too, and draw on the
expertise of that newsgroup.

Best wishes,

Claire Petersky [email hidden] No sig today

Claire Petersky said:

"Bob Matter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I've heard from a professional grant writer that I spoke with that there are no funds out there
for startups such as this. If anyone has any advice to the contrary, I would be most
appreciative if you shared it.

Personally, I think this is not true. Perhaps the grant writer you spoke to doesn't know of funds
for this sort of venture, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. In fact, complaints in the
nonprofit world usually run the other way -- there's lots of money for new programs. The hard
thing is finding money to keep the lights on, and buy a new ream of letterhead, year after year.

That pretty much matches what I've seen and heard, too. It happens at all different levels, and it
probably has to work that way.

You hear about a junior level faculty person getting a research grant. The next thing you know, her
department chair is pressuring her to put some of her salary on the grant, which is a good deal for
the departmental budget in the short term, but not a good deal for the researcher who needs the
money to finance the research so she can be successful and get an even bigger grant the next time.
Granting agencies usually consider this sort of thing an abuse, so they put mechanisms in place to
stop it. But those who pay the regular day-to-day operating costs keep looking for new loopholes to
shift operating costs to grants.

The person in the middle, whether a researcher or a little non-profit agency that gets grants, can
try to use the granting agency's requirements to advantage to protect the funds for the new venture
and also apply pressure on those who provide the operating costs to keep it up.

I'm in the process of trying to find a few leads for Mr. Matter. I haven't reported back to him yet
because it's still in progress. I've heard of a local woman who has set up her own little nonprofit
that provides recreational opportunities for parents and their disabled children -- though as far as
I know so far, it doesn't do any bicycling or bicycle tours. She apparently has been very successful
in getting grants. Sounds promising.

But one comment I heard elsewhere bothers me, and I'm wondering if you have any insight. I got it
from a person who is somewhat familiar with the workings of a private philanthropic organization.
She said that programs that are "replicable" are the ones that get funded. Do you think that is true
in general?

I have issues with that notion. I can understand why a government funding agency needs to do it that
way, but why do private foundations need to be that way? I'm thinking back to 1993, when the Bill
and Hillary Criminal administration was proposing its first budget. My hero Rush Limbaugh spent a
lot of time poking fun at the "midnight basketball" component. He attacked the concept on two
levels, one that I agreed with and one that I disagreed with. It seemed that some private nonprofits
had had great success with midnight basketball in some cities. I didn't see any need for Rush to
disparage that. But just because a program is successful when run by some person who has the
personality and drive and whatever it takes to make it work, doesn't mean it will work well when it
is made into a government program. Government programs need to be bureaucraticized, which isn't
necessarily a bad thing, but it usually means the personal idiosyncracies that may have made
something like midnight basketball a success will be stifled.

Now maybe bicycle touring for disabled children and their families is something that requires a
person with the drive, enthusiasm, and personality quirks of a Bob Matter to work. Maybe it isn't
something that can be easily replicated (i.e . bureaucratized). Why can't a private foundation see
that Bob Matter is doing something really good that deserves support, even realizing that it might
not do so well without his personality behind it. I'm not saying that Bob Matter's plan is NOT
replicable, but I don't see why it should be in order to get funded. A private foundation ought to
be agile enough to deal with it in ways that would be impossible for a government.

Of course, one has to be careful about telling a private foundation that its criteria are all wrong.
It would take some tact and finesse. And maybe it's my idea that's wrong, anyway.

BTW, in the interests of bipartisan bashing, I should point out that George W Bush's idea of funding
"faith-based" charities suffers from all the defects of Bill and Hillary's midnight basketball (plus
a few additional ones that are way off topic for this newsgroup). Some programs might be very
successful at the private level, but once they're made into government programs, everything that
made them successful in the first place will get stiffled.

Well, here's hoping somebody at whatever level is able to help Bob Matter's bicycle touring idea get
off the ground.

John Gorentz

I thought I would share this with all of you since you've been so kind as to offer guidance and
support regarding this new organization. I'm in the process of landing my first sponsorship. One of
the local microbreweries here in Colorado is taking a good look at the program and thinks it's a
great idea and fits into their ideology. I think once I get the first donor of some recognizable
status, others will fall into place.

I've also contacted a different grant writer to get a better impression of what is truly out there,
and if that one doesn't work, I'll just keep looking. I think this idea is certainly worthy of
pursuing until it's actually operational. What happens after that (if there will be enough demand)
will be worked out by market forces rather than the program never seeing the light of day, and
having the opportunity to succeed or fail on it's own merits.

Thank you all for your support. One way or another, this will be off the ground in June.

"John Gorentz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky said:

"Bob Matter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've heard from a professional grant writer that I spoke with that

there are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

no funds out there for startups such as this. If anyone has any

advice to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the contrary, I would be most appreciative if you shared it.

Personally, I think this is not true. Perhaps the grant writer you spoke to doesn't know of
funds for this sort of venture, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. In fact, complaints in
the nonprofit world usually run the other way -- there's lots of money for new programs. The
hard thing is finding money to keep the lights on, and buy a new ream of letterhead, year
after year.

That pretty much matches what I've seen and heard, too. It happens at all

different levels, and it probably has

Quoted message said:

to work that way.

You hear about a junior level faculty person getting a research grant.

The next thing you know, her department

Quoted message said:

chair is pressuring her to put some of her salary on the grant, which is a

good deal for the departmental budget

Quoted message said:

in the short term, but not a good deal for the researcher who needs the

money to finance the research so she can

Quoted message said:

be successful and get an even bigger grant the next time. Granting

agencies usually consider this sort of thing

Quoted message said:

an abuse, so they put mechanisms in place to stop it. But those who pay

the regular day-to-day operating costs

Quoted message said:

keep looking for new loopholes to shift operating costs to grants.

The person in the middle, whether a researcher or a little non-profit

agency that gets grants, can try to use the

Quoted message said:

granting agency's requirements to advantage to protect the funds for the

new venture and also apply pressure on

Quoted message said:

those who provide the operating costs to keep it up.

I'm in the process of trying to find a few leads for Mr. Matter. I

haven't reported back to him yet because it's

Quoted message said:

still in progress. I've heard of a local woman who has set up her own

little nonprofit that provides recreational

Quoted message said:

opportunities for parents and their disabled children -- though as far as

I know so far, it doesn't do any

Quoted message said:

bicycling or bicycle tours. She apparently has been very successful in

getting grants. Sounds promising.

Quoted message said:

But one comment I heard elsewhere bothers me, and I'm wondering if you

have any insight. I got it from a person

Quoted message said:

who is somewhat familiar with the workings of a private philanthropic

organization. She said that programs that

Quoted message said:

are "replicable" are the ones that get funded. Do you think that is true

in general?

Quoted message said:

I have issues with that notion. I can understand why a government funding

agency needs to do it that way, but why

Quoted message said:

do private foundations need to be that way? I'm thinking back to 1993,

when the Bill and Hillary Criminal

Quoted message said:

administration was proposing its first budget. My hero Rush Limbaugh

spent a lot of time poking fun at the

Quoted message said:

"midnight basketball" component. He attacked the concept on two levels,

one that I agreed with and one that I

Quoted message said:

disagreed with. It seemed that some private nonprofits had had great

success with midnight basketball in some

Quoted message said:

cities. I didn't see any need for Rush to disparage that. But just

because a program is successful when run by

Quoted message said:

some person who has the personality and drive and whatever it takes to

make it work, doesn't mean it will work

Quoted message said:

well when it is made into a government program. Government programs need

to be bureaucraticized, which isn't

Quoted message said:

necessarily a bad thing, but it usually means the personal idiosyncracies

that may have made something like

Quoted message said:

midnight basketball a success will be stifled.

Now maybe bicycle touring for disabled children and their families is

something that requires a person with the

Quoted message said:

drive, enthusiasm, and personality quirks of a Bob Matter to work. Maybe

it isn't something that can be easily

Quoted message said:

replicated (i.e . bureaucratized). Why can't a private foundation see

that Bob Matter is doing something really

Quoted message said:

good that deserves support, even realizing that it might not do so well

without his personality behind it. I'm

Quoted message said:

not saying that Bob Matter's plan is NOT replicable, but I don't see why

it should be in order to get funded. A

Quoted message said:

private foundation ought to be agile enough to deal with it in ways that

would be impossible for a government.

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Of course, one has to be careful about telling a private foundation that

its criteria are all wrong. It would

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take some tact and finesse. And maybe it's my idea that's wrong, anyway.

BTW, in the interests of bipartisan bashing, I should point out that

George W Bush's idea of funding "faith-based"

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charities suffers from all the defects of Bill and Hillary's midnight

basketball (plus a few additional ones that

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are way off topic for this newsgroup). Some programs might be very

successful at the private level, but once

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they're made into government programs, everything that made them

successful in the first place will get stiffled.

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Well, here's hoping somebody at whatever level is able to help Bob

Matter's bicycle touring idea get off the

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ground.

John Gorentz