Discovery in disarray.... ?

whiteboytrash said:

Agreed he was ok but I think DD was dragging him down....

I don't think he did that well. He's supposed to be a professional isnt he (at least thats what DD told us)? He was equally guilty - while all of us were stunned watching the race come to a halt or Canc doing one, he sat right beside DD, watching the same events unfold, and let him ramble on.

Can you imagine a horse racing commentator failing to acknowledge that the leading horse had fallen?

Having said that DD is a good commentator if he could leave the breaking events to someone else. Maybe this should be a seperate thread.

Anyone know who the rider Cancellara was giving that extra long hug to at the end?

I was also disappointed when DD was surprised that Cancellara had attacked and didn't recognize him as a rider... then Jones said "some people see him as a chance"... DD went "oh really... never heard of him"..... I mean what is that ! ?

I did like your horse racing analogy.... with DD not knowing who Cancellara was is like a horse racer not knowing the winning horses name... or Murray Walker in F1 not knowing who the German guy in the red car is !

Did you see when Hincapie fell ? They were rabbiting on about something and then it happened and all they could say was "...oh ohhhh what happned.... a Discovery rider has fallen...ohhh... look look again.... its George Hincapie"..... he was acknowledge after the second replay !

wicklow200 said:

I don't think he did that well. He's supposed to be a professional isnt he (at least thats what DD told us)? He was equally guilty - while all of us were stunned watching the race come to a halt or Canc doing one, he sat right beside DD, watching the same events unfold, and let him ramble on.

Can you imagine a horse racing commentator failing to acknowledge that the leading horse had fallen?

Having said that DD is a good commentator if he could leave the breaking events to someone else. Maybe this should be a seperate thread.

Anyone know who the rider Cancellara was giving that extra long hug to at the end?

whiteboytrash said:

Agreed. I was watching EuroSport... I wasn't having a go at him because there was nowhere else for him to go ! But he did appear back in the bunch "all of a sudden"

I should add that the commentary on EuroSport was diabolical.... at some point during the race I turned it down and watched in silence. I couldn't cope with David Duffield continually asking Graham Jones "Why are QuickStep chasing Bonnen...", "Why is Flecha attacking, shouldn’t he just wait".... then he would go off and talk about some old rider for about 5 minutes completely ignoring what was unfolding on the screen... when Cancellara attacked they weren't even talking about it they were talking about something else ! Farking dreadful. It took them about 2 minutes to acknowledge that he had ridden away from the lead group.

Where you watching the English coverage ?

But nothing, really nothing is as bad as the German comments on Eurosport, P-R was oki because they had Jens Heppner as a guest but the Tour of Basque country gave me the rest. I started saving money for a sattelite dish with a receiver (not a free to air but with slots) so i can watch races from Belgium, Dutch, Italian and Spanish tv. I've had enough Eurosport.

[font=Verdana]EuroSport is in disarray ! :p [/font]

cyclingheroes said:

But nothing, really nothing is as bad as the German comments on Eurosport, P-R was oki because they had Jens Heppner as a guest but the Tour of Basque country gave me the rest. I started saving money for a sattelite dish with a receiver (not a free to air but with slots) so i can watch races from Belgium, Dutch, Italian and Spanish tv. I've had enough Eurosport.

whiteboytrash said:

He also said that Hincapie knew he had a problem before the "snap"..... if like CSC, DC had extra bikes out on the road he could of swapped but not to be...... Hincapie in the ditch and CSC on the podium.

They shouldn't of had to figure it out (see below)... there should of been a bike there to swap right away.

cyclingnews.comnews.phpOpen ↗

Shortly before the second crash, Hincapie told team directors that he felt looseness in his steering and thought his headset may have come loose as a result of the earlier crash. The team was figuring out when and how to swap to his spare bike when Hincapie entered another cobbled section and crashed.

"I believe that the first crash set the stage for the big crash", said Bruyneel. "Section after section the vibrations just kept coming until the damaged steerer gave loose."

Wow I hadnt read that...awful simply awful. If he had gone off the bike all the Discos would have stopped and then it depends how the race is...THAT would have been dramatic!

Reminds me of 2002 when Hincapie didnt stop for vest or jacket, froze when the temp dropped 50-to 35 degrees and then went into the ditch.

I dont add criticism, who would stop and get off their bike in the last 20 mies of P-R when race is on, I mean Flecha was attacking like a madman. Can you imagine asking Hoste to stop, no WAY he would have. Maybe best would have been a quick stop Gusev waits and Geoirge changes bikes.

As soon as that happens Cancellara would have attacked anyway, JUST LIK BOONEN DID WHEN GEORGE CRASHED BTW.

whiteboytrash said:

He also said that Hincapie knew he had a problem before the "snap"..... if like CSC, DC had extra bikes out on the road he could of swapped but not to be...... Hincapie in the ditch and CSC on the podium.

They shouldn't of had to figure it out (see below)... there should of been a bike there to swap right away.

cyclingnews.comnews.phpOpen ↗

Shortly before the second crash, Hincapie told team directors that he felt looseness in his steering and thought his headset may have come loose as a result of the earlier crash. The team was figuring out when and how to swap to his spare bike when Hincapie entered another cobbled section and crashed.

"I believe that the first crash set the stage for the big crash", said Bruyneel. "Section after section the vibrations just kept coming until the damaged steerer gave loose."

Didn't see this post before.... So Discovery really [censored] up!

cyclingheroes said:

Didn't see this post before.... So Discovery really [censored] up!

A failed calculated risk would be a better term.
Life would be pretty sweet if we could see an hour or two into the future. There would be little second guessing ourselves or others. Just for a moment I was going to write, "I would have switched to the backup bike after the first crash" but then that would have been just another hindsighted asinine statement added to this thread.

lw

Hmmm...not so sure about all of that. Leaving absolutely nothing to chance is a pretty good strategy when you are riding a race like PR where so much else is out of your control.

I have been watching CSC a lot this year, especially in terms of the lengths to which they are going to support their team and riders. I think they have learned a lot in the last two years and are tired of excuses and disappointments. After watching TM disinitegrate in slow motion last season, I think they clearly have set the goal that they are going to be the best cycling team in the world on all levels. That's not luck. That's strategy.

On the other hand, Discovery seems to really be struggling to find their way in many areas of the team and in support of their riders. As Lim points out, we got a little glimpse of it last year in the Giro. I see a lot of the issues continuing to surface this year.

They appear to me to be team that is struggling with the impact of trying to do more than just compete in the TDF with a few tune-up and follow-up races thrown in. The strength of their riders is the only thing saving their bacon.

CSC on the other hand seems to be doing a much better job of supporting a really deep team, and broad race initiative. Surely that's fair and not Disco bashing.

Given the terrain at P-R, I am very surprised that DC would decide to test a new setup.
I really am.

I know that equipment can be tested to the nth degree - and the equipment that GH probably did pass various tests but if I were him, I would have stuck with the product I know.

Cycling a new product can be taxing mentally.
You're constantly thinking "does this feel right " etc.

limerickman said:

Given the terrain at P-R, I am very surprised that DC would decide to test a new setup.
I really am.

I know that equipment can be tested to the nth degree - and the equipment that GH probably did pass various tests but if I were him, I would have stuck with the product I know.

Cycling a new product can be taxing mentally.
You're constantly thinking "does this feel right " etc.

Or will my steering tube snap on me while on the cobbles of Roubaix ?!😄

I agree, I wonder how much input George has on these issues. George seems to be quite a bit more passive than past team leaders for Discovery.

lw

lwedge said:

Or will my steering tube snap on me while on the cobbles of Roubaix ?!😄

I agree, I wonder how much input George has on these issues. George seems to be quite a bit more passive than past team leaders for Discovery.

lw

I haven't seen equipment snap like that at P-R in recent years.

That's what intrigues me about the GH situation : for the steering stem to snap the way it did, is baffling.
Even taking in to account the terrain.

And it's a valid point that you make - did GH insist on this change of equipment?

limerickman said:

I haven't seen equipment snap like that at P-R in recent years.

That's what intrigues me about the GH situation : for the steering stem to snap the way it did, is baffling.
Even taking in to account the terrain.

And it's a valid point that you make - did GH insist on this change of equipment?

Give it a rest guys.
He rode basically the same bike last year.
I dont think he'll live down giving an interview saying he pounded the bike around hard the day before trying to flex the wheels.
But generally its the big fall or crash that does the damage, not a bunch of smaller bumps.

[font=Verdana]From cyclingnews you can see the efforts that CSC went to win and how it has been regarded as a team win not just a individual’s win..... DC take note...... a team win is not just the riders.. it’s the bike manufacture, the mechanics, the back-up staff.... everyone.

Even the humor is high brow with Tony Montana on the bike frame...... this surely beats the "no chain" gags from George and Lance.... very under graduate indeed. [/font]

[font=Verdana]Like another poster stated earlier CSC are a complete team for all races.... QuickStep are a great one day team, DC were a great Tour team who are now trying to make themselves into something that they spent 7 years not wanting to be.... it can't change overnight.... my concern that by throwing Bruyneel into the car at such a late stage must of demotivated Demol and been a slap in the face for him.... as noted from CSC's victory (below) Riis allowed Scott Sunderland to have full control and allowed him to make all key decisions for P-R...... Didn’t DC trust Demol after the RVV debacle ? What sort of messages does it send it the manager has to come down to the shop floor and run things himself ? Disarray.

Tommy D for [/font][font=Verdana]Georgia[/font][font=Verdana] ? I say its payback time for Landis.[/font]

_____________________

CSC rode on carbon bikes during the race. It was questioned by others before the start, but Riis put his full support behind his director Scott Sunderland. It proved to be the right choice, as Cancellara appeared to be floating over the cobbles and the team only suffered one puncture on the day.
Sunderland explained to Cyclingnews that the Cérvelos they used had a box-section downtube and a special chain- and seat-stay design so that the rear triangle flexed more on the cobbles, almost like rear suspension. In addition, the team was running 27mm tubulars with normal spoked wheels.

"I have never been that comfortable on the cobbles," Fabian confirmed to the VUM papers. "The frame; the wheels, everything was picobello. It was the first time in my career that I started as the team leader. Immediate success!"

The right name

If ever you get the chance of admiring one of Cancellara's bikes close-up, you will notice that it doesn't have his name written on the frame. It reads Tony Montana. "Tony Montana is my nickname in the group," laughs Cancellara. "Montana is my favourite actor in the movie Scarface with Al Pacino. I'm always imitating him."

sportwereld.be published a story today that Marc Sergeant (Davitamon) is interested to give Leif Hoste a contract in the 2007 season. Hoste's contract at Disco expires at the end of 2006.

CH : Hoste should pack his packs immediately and head back to Davitamon.
After the criticism he got from DC manager Bruyneel - he should walk.

DC made the same mistake with Savoldelli last year at the Giro - they threw him a few scraps after he won it (largely thanks to Sean Yates direction - not Bruyneel's).

You can be sure if Hoste won RVV (or P-R), then Demol would have been thrown some scraps too.

limerickman said:

CH : Hoste should pack his packs immediately and head back to Davitamon.
After the criticism he got from DC manager Bruyneel - he should walk.

DC made the same mistake with Savoldelli last year at the Giro - they threw him a few scraps after he won it (largely thanks to Sean Yates direction - not Bruyneel's).

You can be sure if Hoste won RVV (or P-R), then Demol would have been thrown some scraps too.

I thought that by throwing Bruyneel into the car at such a late stage must of demotivated Demol and been a slap in the face for him...... he to maybe looking for a new team......

whiteboytrash said:

I thought that by throwing Bruyneel into the car at such a late stage must of demotivated Demol and been a slap in the face for him...... he to maybe looking for a new team......

Well as you point out, Riis was prepared to let Sutherland control the CSC team.
Bruyneel wasn't prepared to trust Demol.

Hoste was perfectly correct to do what he did at RVV - whether he did so at Demols direction or not is academic.
The man finished second.
Hincapie wouldn't have won RVV.

Bruyneel should do the correct thing and be supportive to his riders instead of implicating them and his DS's.

whiteboytrash said:

[font=Verdana]EuroSport is in disarray ! :p [/font]

They need Lance

limerickman said:

Well as you point out, Riis was prepared to let Sutherland control the CSC team.
Bruyneel wasn't prepared to trust Demol.

Hoste was perfectly correct to do what he did at RVV - whether he did so at Demols direction or not is academic.
The man finished second.
Hincapie wouldn't have won RVV.

Bruyneel should do the correct thing and be supportive to his riders instead of implicating them and his DS's.

I see where Davitamon Lotto is already out in the press saying they want Hoste.
Wow! What a surprise. A Belgian rider on an American team attacks his team leader to make a big show and then the Belgian teams go after him. I am sure Hoste will leave, as I predicited in these threads immediatelyu after Flanders.

He is a big rider, Belgian and wants to ride on a Belgian team. Disco will have to learn not to waste their time or money. The only other possibility is if they give Hoste leadership outright.
But Geroge will want to come back one more time and try to win P-R.

What Hoste did was good for him and his career, not for the team.

Recall that Demol won nothing but small kermesses and little semiclassics. HE won Roubaix as a fluke.
I just read a chapter about the transforming effect P-R had on him by Sam Abt. Well apart from never having to buy himself a beer in any bar in Belgium again and getting paid more I dont see what it is. He is nervous, does not instill confidence, and has directed a very talented team with numerous tactical mistakes over the past years.

recall Lance's recent forays in Flanders and L-B-L
Geroge missing the break last year in Flanders and on and on.
(was Bruyneel in the car when Lance rode?)
Oh well.

bobke said:

I see where Davitamon Lotto is already out in the press saying they want Hoste.
Wow! What a surprise. A Belgian rider on an American team attacks his team leader to make a big show and then the Belgian teams go after him. I am sure Hoste will leave, as I predicited in these threads immediatelyu after Flanders.

He is a big rider, Belgian and wants to ride on a Belgian team. Disco will have to learn not to waste their time or money. The only other possibility is if they give Hoste leadership outright.
But Geroge will want to come back one more time and try to win P-R.

What Hoste did was good for him and his career, not for the team.

Recall that Demol won nothing but small kermesses and little semiclassics. HE won Roubaix as a fluke.
I just read a chapter about the transforming effect P-R had on him by Sam Abt. Well apart from never having to buy himself a beer in any bar in Belgium again and getting paid more I dont see what it is. He is nervous, does not instill confidence, and has directed a very talented team with numerous tactical mistakes over the past years.

recall Lance's recent forays in Flanders and L-B-L
Geroge missing the break last year in Flanders and on and on.
(was Bruyneel in the car when Lance rode?)
Oh well.

You forgot to mention - that it was DC who bought Hoste from Davitamon.

Regarding Demol - he won P-R : I don't know if it was a fluke or not.
It's immaterial quite frankly.

But now that you're using ancient history to try to do down a DC DS - do you have anything to say about Bruyneel's wheelsucking victory in the 1995 TDF in Liege?

Wait a minute ! Didn't Hincapie employ the same tactics with OP in last years
TDF?

It's all becoming clearer now.