Do you GPS or ordinance map and compass?

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:47:34 GMT, Randell Tarin <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| Are the users of a GPS using this in lieu of an ordinance map and compass OR
| in addition to it.
|
| The reason I'm asking is that I'm relatively new to both and since GPS
| technology is relatively new, I wanted to get the opinions of the more
| experienced.
|
| Which do you prefer and why?

**********
** Both **
**********

I use an OS Explorer and Compass to get me where I want to go.
I use GPS when I am in the middle of a featureless bit of moorland to tell
me where I am on the map.

When the Right to Roam legislation is implemented,
http://www.ramblers.org.uk/news/archive/2004/accessgrantscheme.html
st*ff these horrible waymarked metaled paths. I will have to relearn the
skill of jumping from tussock to tussock on featureless, waterlogged peat
moor Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Then the GPS will be *really* useful.

Waymarks are OK if you are absolutely sure what route you will take.
When on the hills you will often find that for some good reason, Something
interesting off the path, rain/blizard makes it wise to head for nearest
civilisation, I thing I will go the other way as it looks nicer today,
etc. etc. etc.

--
Dave F

I use BOTH. The map and compass are my primary navigational aids (and should
be for everyone) and, although a bit of an expensive accessory, the GPS
readout always helps me know where I'm lost!

Randell Tarin wrote:
Are the users of a GPS using this in lieu of an ordinance map and compass OR
in addition to it.

Quoted message said:

Are the users of a GPS using this in lieu of an ordinance map and compass OR
in addition to it.

Quoted message said:

Which do you prefer and why?

All three.

In my view a GPS isn't much use without a map.

A compass costs very little and weight virtually nothing
so there doesn't seem to be any excuse for not having
one (and knowing how to use it).

Maybe I'm old fashioned though, GPS wasn't even thought
of when I learned to enjoy walking and navigation.

Nick

In message <[email hidden]>, Randell Tarin
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Are the users of a GPS using this in lieu of an ordinance map and compass OR
in addition to it.

GPS - requires batteries which run down, can malfunction, not get lock
on satellites, etc.

I'd ALWAYS carry a map and compass.

Regards
--
Neil Pugh

"Randell Tarin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are the users of a GPS using this in lieu of an ordinance map and

compass OR

Quoted message said:

in addition to it.

The reason I'm asking is that I'm relatively new to both and since

GPS

Quoted message said:

technology is relatively new, I wanted to get the opinions of the

more

Quoted message said:

experienced.

Which do you prefer and why?

Learn to use all both ways so that they compliment each other. There
are some who are so confident of using gps they probably use it on its
own, but they have reached this decision after years of using both
systems together. As a beginner you must explore both options
thoroughly.

Graham

Randell Tarin <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Are the users of a GPS using this in lieu of an ordinance map and compass OR
in addition to it.

Definitely in addition to the map. I carry a magnetic compass just in
case, but it is really redundant.
--
Gordon

Randell Tarin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Are the users of a GPS using this in lieu of an ordinance map and compass OR
in addition to it.

The reason I'm asking is that I'm relatively new to both and since GPS
technology is relatively new, I wanted to get the opinions of the more
experienced.

Which do you prefer and why?

Randell

Now thats a post thats sure to stir things up around here!

Disclaimer:-
This is my personal opionion, feel free to disagree ;-)

I don`t think (and hope) that there are any users round here that use
a GPS completly in lieu of an OS map and compass. To do so would be a
very silly idea indeed. I think the usual debate here is what tool is
the principle navigation aid and what is the backup. My personal
preference to rely on the map/compass but carry the GPS turned off at
the bottom of my bag as a backup, this I find works very well. Other
people choose the reverse option and thats their choice and thats fine
by me. I wory that I may become dependent on it or loose my
navigation skills otherwise. I don`t think a GPS spoils the sense of
wilderness as much as a mobile phone or much more than a compass. a
phone is a direct link to civilisation, a GPS is a direct link to some
satellites miles overhead. Why do I have a GPS? Apart from being a
sucker for new technology, I did a lot of GPS/GIS at University and
was excited by the potential. Now I write software for a survey
company where high precision DGPS is an amazingly useful tool. A lot
depends on what type of walking you do and the consequences of
instrument failure (remember that even in some parts of the UK, even a
compass reading can be dubious due to magnetic rock). Walking solely
with a GPS would be easier on open moorland than farmland but the
consequences of instrument failure would be much greater. I think
everyone needs to understand the limits of their choosen nav-aid,
whatever it is.

Reasons against relying on GPS
A GPS is an electronic device and despite usually being well
protected, can still break. I still love the way you can wash the mud
off in a stream! True, a map can also rip/get blown away but if
you`re that worried, a spare map wont cost as much as a spare GPS! A
GPS runs on batteries, maps and compasses dont. Batteries run out
when people forget to check before leaving, people forget spares and
battery life depends on temperature. A GPS compass requires the GPS
to be in motion (I know some GPS`s now have electonic magnetic
compasses, are they any good?). A GPS might show your position to an
enoromous level of accuracy and precision but without a map, its
pretty meaningless - it wont show the river you have to cross/cliffs
to avoid whilst in the hills, nor will it show all the realy useful
stuff like farms/woods/fields/streams/paths when walking lowland
farmland. No doubt when Anquet bring out OS mapping for palm-tops,
this wont be so much of an issue (this may be do-able now?). You`d
need to put on a load of waypoints with every path dog-leg marked to
avoid it taking you on a merry dance through every bog in sight.
Adding waypoints without a PC is a serious chore. GPS can be dubious
in woods/high sided valleys. An incorrectly set GPS (Datums,
spheroids...) is a liability. If your GPS packs up and you have to
resort to map and compass, it takes time to get used to using the map
again, just like when a mate passes you the map to lead and you havn`t
really been following the route. A GPS may possibly lead you into a
false sense of security - would you realy have carried on in the fog
without it? A GPS will hinder learning good navigation skills if it
gets brought out when things start to get tricky.

Reasons for carrying a GPS as a backup to map/compass
Handy to check position with what you think it is when not sure. It
could save accidentaly walking down a dangerous route, wasting time
trying to work out your location when you get a bit lost and very
useful when leading a big group ("Ok everyone, back over the barbed
wire fence, we`ve just gone the wrong way..."😉. If you suffer an
accident, the rescue teams would prefer a nice accurate 8 fig GR to a
rushed, incorrect GR. The ETA time for a track and the current speed
helps keep your speed up. They make practicing pacing and other
navigation techniques great fun - check your start with the GPS, walk
to a point and see how far off you are. They help finding that
ellusive hidden carpark. They help find that ellusive
unwalked/unmarked path. They help mark that must-return-to wild camp
location/view/lunch stop. They let you download the route you
actually walked when you get home and have a good laugh. It`s
probably the most accurate clock in your house. Mine will tell you
sunset times, handy when taking photos of sunsets/knowing what time to
pitch your tent. You can try Geocaching. You can calibrate your cars
speedo. It may give you a useful alibi ("It couldn`t have been me
officer, I was out walking, just look at this track."😉. Handy for
finding your car in airport carparks. They make great discussion
points. A dead GPS will make a handy door-stop...

My advice, always carry a map and compass. learn how to use them.
When happy with a map and compass, consider a GPS but never consider
it as a replacement or come to rely on it.

Ed.

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful
person Randell Tarin <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

Are the users of a GPS using this in lieu of an ordinance map and compass OR
in addition to it.

The reason I'm asking is that I'm relatively new to both and since GPS
technology is relatively new, I wanted to get the opinions of the more
experienced.

Which do you prefer and why?

1) It depends where I am. Around civilization I often leave the compass
/ map at home, and just use the GPS - worst that can happen is you walk
a few extra miles. On top of a big hill, with no roads/pubs/whatever for
miles, take both. Heck, take spares.

2) I prefer to use the GPS with tracks & waypoints loaded. It copes much
better in wind/rain/fog/snow/cloud when maps are hard to handle, or when
you can't see enough to get a compass bearing anyway. I like to walk -
'figuring out where I am' is just a boring subtask - if the GPS can tell
me in 3 seconds, that beats all heck out of taking cross bearings and
working it out. Yes, I can do it if I have to (but not in zero
visibility). You wouldn't normally go walking in 'whiteout' conditions
of course, but it does sometimes happen .. quite fast.

3) The GPS also tell you where you have been, how far you walked, etc.
OK, so you need a PC and appropriate software 'back at base', and 'base'
needs to not be too far away (depending on your GPS .. with most cheap
ones you'd have a tough time loading a month's trekking routes and
storing a month of track logs).

Other folks have different preferences. As someone said, flat batteries
in a GPS can really spoil your day (so can dropping it. So can losing
your compass ..).

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

Neil Pugh said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Randell Tarin
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Are the users of a GPS using this in lieu of an ordinance map and compass OR
in addition to it.

GPS - requires batteries which run down, can malfunction, not get lock
on satellites, etc.

Yawn...

I suspect Randell Tarin is a troll.

<plonk thread>

Somebody tell me if it drifts into something interesting.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

On 27/8/04 2:47 am, in article [email hidden],

Randell Tarin said:

Are the users of a GPS using this in lieu of an ordinance map and compass OR
in addition to it.

The reason I'm asking is that I'm relatively new to both and since GPS
technology is relatively new, I wanted to get the opinions of the more
experienced.

Which do you prefer and why?

I primarily use maps and compasses. I bought a GPS last year after a bad
experience in mist. So it always sits in my rucksack but is rarely used.

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

In article <[email hidden]>, GSV Three Minds in a Can
<URL:[email hidden]> wrote:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

3) The GPS also tell you where you have been, how far you walked, etc.
OK, so you need a PC and appropriate software 'back at base', and 'base'
needs to not be too far away (depending on your GPS .. with most cheap
ones you'd have a tough time loading a month's trekking routes and
storing a month of track logs).

I almost exclusively use my GPS this way round. It is used to collect a
tracklog of where I have been, which I then can download to my PC when I
get home. I then analyse the log in conjunction with mapping software
and use it as a record of where I've been and also help identify where
photographs were taken.

Along the way I store some key waypoints such as the start point and any
major points of interest or junctions. In the alps I often store the
positions of huts, cols and summits for future reference if I return to
the same region again. When not wandering as and where the fancy takes
me, I generally navigate almost exclusively with map and compass and
only occasionally refer to the GPS to confirm a grid position in bad
weather conditions.

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

On 08/27/04 12:25 PM, in article [email hidden],

Phil Cook said:

Neil Pugh said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Randell Tarin
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Are the users of a GPS using this in lieu of an ordinance map and compass OR
in addition to it.

GPS - requires batteries which run down, can malfunction, not get lock
on satellites, etc.

Yawn...

I suspect Randell Tarin is a troll.

<plonk thread>

Somebody tell me if it drifts into something interesting.

Now Phil, let's play nice.

On 08/27/04 12:25 PM, in article [email hidden],

Phil Cook said:

Neil Pugh said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Randell Tarin
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Are the users of a GPS using this in lieu of an ordinance map and compass OR
in addition to it.

GPS - requires batteries which run down, can malfunction, not get lock
on satellites, etc.

Yawn...

I suspect Randell Tarin is a troll.

<plonk thread>

Somebody tell me if it drifts into something interesting.

Now Phil, let's play nice.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Are the users of a GPS using this in lieu of an ordinance map and compass OR
in addition to it.

In addition to.
--
I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see me
as a dire warning.

In article <[email hidden]>, Ed
Whittaker <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

My advice, always carry a map and compass. learn how to use them. When
happy with a map and compass, consider a GPS but never consider it as a
replacement or come to rely on it.

Good post. My only disagreement is that throughout you omit "... and
altimeter" after Map and Compass.

I've never used a GPS and love maps :-)

But for location you can't beat the addition of the altimeter. It shows
what contour you're on, and in conjunction with compass direction it's
great.

I had cause recently to traverse an untracked moorland in the Scottish
Borders in a thick mist in order to aim for the one descent off the hill
which didn't lead over rocks <g>. The first time I ever had to resort to
step counting and compass bearing and I was really proud to find I was
spot on. No doubt the GPS would have sorted me out but it's a lot to
spend for a backup.

And with a map you get to answer the question "What's that hill over
there?" :-)

--
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland

I'd never rely on GPS exclusively, and always use
map/compass/altimeter for primary navigation.

The only times my GPS (a Garmin Geko 201)was **really** useful were
(a) kayaking in the Finnish lakeland: I had a map and a compass, but
it is very hard to take waypoints if all islands look the same and
you're only a couple of feet above the water.
(b) finding my car on a huge supermarket / DYI store parking lot.
(c), and most importantly for walking when there are few tracks
(Rannoch Moor on a rainy & misty day a couple of weeks ago), I marked
waypoints on my unit, to be able to walk back the way I came, in case
I had to. Made me feel safer.

So, as a backup, I think one of the cheaper units is a useful piece of
gear to have.

Birgit Kleymann <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I'd never rely on GPS exclusively, and always use
map/compass/altimeter for primary navigation.

The only times my GPS (a Garmin Geko 201)was **really** useful were
(a) kayaking in the Finnish lakeland: I had a map and a compass,

The only time my Silva compass was really useful was when I forgot to
take my GPS.

These days it's ok using a magnetic compass for a fun exercise, and it
is useful to be able to do it as backup, just as it's useful to be able
to use a sextant when sailing.

It is nonsense to talk about Satellite navigation as mere backup!
(IMHO, of course)....
--
Gordon

"Gordon" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The only times my GPS (a Garmin Geko 201)was **really** useful were
(a) kayaking in the Finnish lakeland: I had a map and a compass,

Quoted message said:

The only time my Silva compass was really useful was when I forgot to
take my GPS.

The only times my girlfriend's GPS proved useful were several years back by
making people go "Oooh, you've got one of them GPS wotsits." Now that the
riff raff have got one and it's lost its novelty value there's not much
point taking it anywhere.

I like Paul Newman's attitude to navigation from this afternoon's film....
"I don't know where we are but it sure as hell ain't Oklahoma". If he'd had
a map and GPS he might have avoided that cliff, wouldn't have made the
dramatic escape and the film would have been an hour shorter.

Bernard Hill <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Good post. My only disagreement is that throughout you omit "... and
altimeter" after Map and Compass.

I sometimes use my Suunto which I got as a present last year (the big
four zero) but I can never remember what all the buttons do and
invariably
find myself at an altitude of 50m above the summit.

Quoted message said:

I've never used a GPS and love maps :-)

Me too. I also think that by not having a GPS, I rely more on my
general
feeling for the lie of the land. This was true on Saturday when my
friend's GPS told him to bear east 50m too soon (it was misty, we were
heading for a col). Now I know 50m isn't a lot but this was a steep
decent and I was happy to continue to what felt like the right place
and,
as it turned out, was an easier decent.

Now I know that a GPS should provide additional information and is
therefore a good thing, but for me it would change my hill walking
experience. I like finding my way through difficult conditions
on difficult terrain.
--
Adrian