donnie

Doug Freese said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The other guys seemed to do fine without water.

at that one stop. they may have grabbed water at other stops...we
just
don't have the photographic record of the other stops & the leaders.
absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. perhaps the top 10 or
50 finishers hydrated on course at some point...who knows...

Quoted message said:

Out of the four

guys in the lead pack, which one has the least experience ?

Are you suggesting those that drink are inexpereinced? That's a
stretch.

No, I'm just suggesting that canonizing this guy as some sort of
"gold standard" because he's fast, is misguided. He's fast, but he's
also very young. I have met very talented young runners who didn't
know all that much -- and why should they know much more than a slower
runner with comparable experience ?

Of course in the case of a truly elite guy like Alan Webb, a typical
road racer simply doesn't have comparable experience (racing a tactical
mile where everyone's PR is +- 1 seconds is not something most of us
experience).

I would say that if you're going to hydrate in a race shorter than
30 minutes, you had better do it quickly. Note that this guy is near
the end of the cup and hasn't lost ground to the pack. So he's giving
roughly zero distance to take in the fluid.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The guy that finished second in the race.

I hope it is not being suggested that if he had not drank some water he
would have finished first?

I don't think he's suggesting that.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

DF. Donnie was making a point that the 3 38 yr old guys bypassed
hydration and that's a direct reflection of their experience in road
racing...while the one guy in the photo that hydrated was 21. Donnie
made an interesting and valid point. My quip back to his legit point &
question was to answer by saying "the guy who took 2nd place", as
opposed to saying, "the 21 yr old". Donnie's suggesting that with more
experience under his belt, the 21 yr old won't find himself in 5 mile
races and needing too hydrate, despite it being 75F & 83% humidity
(like he is assuming the 38 yr olds did not).

Twittering One said:

Looks Good
Donvon ~ !

You're turning inward, though.
Becareful for the sake of knees.

Your shoes ...
Flats, or old?

Very light flats. 5.5oz Nikes. I wear them to annoy Bill.

http://www.eastbay.com/images/products/zoom/09252101_z.jpg

Quoted message said:

Enough support?

For me, for a short race, yes.

Quoted message said:

Your still have a lot of muscle,
Even though you no longer
Lift.

Down to 150lb (at 6ft). It's deceptive. If you have low body
fat, you look more muscular than you really are.

Quoted message said:

Do you do yoga?

No. Don't know what made you think that.

Quoted message said:

Good work ~ !

Thanks!

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

DF. Donnie was making a point that the 3 38 yr old guys bypassed
hydration and that's a direct reflection of their experience in road
racing...while the one guy in the photo that hydrated was 21. Donnie
made an interesting and valid point. My quip back to his legit point &
question was to answer by saying "the guy who took 2nd place", as
opposed to saying, "the 21 yr old". Donnie's suggesting that with more
experience under his belt, the 21 yr old won't find himself in 5 mile
races and needing too hydrate, despite it being 75F & 83% humidity
(like he is assuming the 38 yr olds did not).

Actually, my take on it is that he didn't really need to hydrate, but
it doesn't really hurt either, as long as he's not giving up any ground.

If he gave up 8 seconds or so (over 40m) as Dan suggested, it would be
a problem, but it looks like he's not even giving up a second.

I don't think 100ml or so will do much from a hydration standpoint, but
it can help give you mental boost.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Very light flats. 5.5oz Nikes. I wear them to annoy Bill.

And everytime he does, he loses in them (not to imply he ever won
anything...)

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

"Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Just got well hydrated before the race. There's a reason they don't
have water stations in elite 10k races.

Nevertheless, they do get thirsty, and at least some gulp down something:
I saw a pic on the web of the 3rd place guy at the Peachtree road race
grabbing a cup of water. He was an elite African. That is a notoriously
muggy race, I believe.

Yes, they probably don't have water stops at track races, but my point was
that if given a choice, elites will drink in shorter races.

I find water needs and hydration are coupled with time, not distance -
and 30:00 is about my personal cutoff for taking water during a hot race.
Preparatory and post-race hydration is more important.
One reason to not drink the water is when you're grinding like hell,
sometimes your stomach (already between a rock and a hard place) gives more
trouble than a little dehydration. Of course, if that grinding is due to
hydration issues that's another subject.
Another reason is tactical - one great place to gain separation on a
strong pack is where they are distracted - and a table full of cool drinks
works really well. Not only will they need to hurry to finish their drink,
but they will have to make a tactical response on a full stomach and a
short-term oxygen debt. It's like making a surprise move and forcing them
to run a short hill that you don't have to.

Plus, a picture of a guy holding water doesn't mean he drank it.
Dumping it on your head is effectively free sweat - a nice refresher that
actually removes some heat that sweating now doesn't have to. Lots of
elites do the old splash move.

Dave