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Double Dipsea report

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Published
24 June 2007
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26 June 2007
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D Stumpus
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  1. My training hasn't been going so well -- I'm having trouble getting back
    into my pre-stress fracture condition. If something isn't working, change
    it. So, what the heck, I decided to take some days off, and run a race up
    North.

    The Double Dipsea race in the woods north of San Francisco has been going
    strong for about 40 years. It's mostly trail, a shade under 14 miles, an
    out and back course from Stinson Beach to Mill Valley. It has about 4400
    feet of climb, and about 1300 steps.
    See http://www.doubledipsea.com/racemaps.html for map and profile.

    It's a handicap race, with the older and fairer runners starting first, and
    the young men starting last. So the start of the race is a series of mini
    starts, as in "OK, 50-55 women start in 2 minutes!" My handicap at age 55
    gave me a 20 minute head start, or about 1:30/mile over the scratch runners.
    That's about how much slower I run mountain races these days, so it seems
    fair to *me* anyway.

    Needless to say, this brings out the good masters and women runners, because
    anyone can win, and the leader board will have both men and women of various
    ages happily cohabitating. May the best WAVA score win.

    It was a perfect day as I took the scenic drive to the race. It was clear
    and cool at 7:00 am, but it would get hot under the solstice sun in a couple
    of hours. The panoramic sweep of the ocean below and the hills above made
    this one of the most scenic drives ever for me.

    When the first group took off (70-75 women), I started my 2 mile warm-up
    jog, then lined up with the 20 or 30 guys in my age division. One guy took
    off like a rocket, and I wrote him off (he ended up something like 6th
    overall). Within about a mile and a half I'd burned off the others, but
    while chatting with one guy I learned that there are 4-5 major short cuts on
    the course, and that it's legal to take them! Know thy course.

    I was already running pretty hard (there's a 1300' climb in the first 3
    miles), and in a mostly 3 step breathing rhythm, with some excursions into 2
    step. Soon we were passing some of the older and earlier starting runners.
    This felt strange, a real change from the expanding universe effect at the
    start of a normal race. People are coming back to you from the start.

    At 3 miles I saw a guy ahead of me cut over a grassy berm -- must be one of
    the shortcuts. I passed on following him. As I rounded a curve a couple of
    minutes later, one of the 55 year olds I'd left behind me was 200 yards
    ahead of me! Damn! I noted the exit of the short cut, and vowed to catch
    it on the way back. Took me a half mile to reel that guy back in. Having
    so many people to pass was encouraging, and I got a little energy hit each
    time.

    The surface was challenging and does not play to my strengths. 1300 steps
    of varying tread widths, 2.3 million roots, a jillion rocks, and the odd
    board embedded in the trail. I cannot run fast over this stuff, and slowed
    to a crawl over a lot of the course, hardly breathing. As soon as a
    runnable section appeared, I accelerated and ran at 10k effort. So the race
    for me was like a fartleck run. At some points a nimble footed gal I'd
    passed earlier would close on me, and as soon as I could open up my stride,
    I'd take off at a low 6 minute clip and put a lot of distance on my pursuer.

    The slowest part of the course was the 500+ steps down to the turn around in
    Mill Valley. Probably 10 folks passed me down those stairs who I'd easily
    passed earlier on the runnable parts of the course. I just said "see you
    later" to myself. I was in about 30th place at the turn around, and blasted
    off to attack the stairs back up, where horsepower, not nerve was king. I
    went apes**t on the climb out of the valley and it was payback time for all
    except for a couple elites. My plan was to ease up on the next downhill,
    and attack the last 3 miles of the course. I was in about 20th place now,
    and feeling good about my prospects.

    Unfortunately, pride goeth before the fall. By this time I was alone, and I
    came to a fork in the road. There was a flourescent ribbon on the right, so
    I went right. I found my self climbing but I didn't remember this on the
    way up. After a couple of minutes I found myself joining a gaggle of
    runners who'd been 5+ minutes behind me! Geez! That was a real bummer.
    Ok, Dan, pass them again. So I poured it on and passed as many as I could,
    but I could see familiar rear ends ahead of me that I'd passed earlier, and
    I knew I wasn't going to see those butts again until the finish. There
    wasn't enough time (and runnable miles of trail) to catch them. 5-6 minutes
    is a lot of time to lose in the last 3 miles of a race.

    I did catch the shortcut on the way back that I'd missed earlier, and low
    and behold, got back about 30 seconds. I caught up with another couple of
    runners just before the nasty steep steps in the woods, so sat behind them
    as they pulled away from me. I was able to catch up on the next runnable
    section, and the three of us (my partners were a 35 year old guy who was
    prematurely gray, and 40 year old woman) ran together until the very end.

    Fortunately, we saw someone duck off into a hidden trail shortcut, and we
    followed running as fast as we could through dizzying serpentine rutted
    trail, thrashing the encroaching brush and jumping crevasses and rocks like
    there was no tomorrow.

    Finally we hit the road, with about 600 yards to the finish at the beach,
    and it was every man for himself. The young guy took off fast, and I let
    him get 15 yards on me. The gal was somewhere behind me. The kid was
    kicking his heels pretty high, he's running real hard, but I was having a
    hard time finding high gear: I was nauseated from the effort (as I'd been
    for the last couple of miles), and worried that I'd start gagging and have
    to slow. With about 50 yards to go I said what the heck, and blasted off.
    Turns out I had a *lot* left in my kick, and nearly caught him in that short
    distance. Note to self: No matter how bad you feel, blast off in the last
    150 yards!

    Wow, what a race! I finished 33rd overall, and would have probably been
    20-ish but for the extra loop I ran. San Francisco has the toughest bunch
    of runners -- it's not unusual as in this race, for the top 5% of finishers
    to be at about 80% wava. Maybe next year, with some speedwork, a few less
    lbs, and no wrong turns I can crack the top 15-20. This one's on the
    calendar.

    Stats: 1:25 (including extra 5-6 bonus minutes), place 33/350-400, 2nd
    55-59.

    Gratitude Department: No falls or even stumbles, just a couple of near
    ankle-twists from moving rocks on pushoff. Almost zero soreness.

    Cool sights of the day:

    Many toned (and friendly!) women of all ages.

    Driving through a mysterious ground fog then seeing a crop duster zip by at
    an altitude of 30 feet.

    Then a few miles later, an egret rising from the banks and giving me a
    flyover at the same altitude.

    -- Dan

  2. Quoted message said:

    while chatting with one guy I learned that there are 4-5 major short
    cuts on the course, and that it's legal to take them! Know thy
    course.

    Strange. Not sure if I'd like this. Just one more thing to worry about, I
    guess.

    Quoted message said:

    The slowest part of the course was the 500+ steps down to the turn
    around in Mill Valley.

    I saw this - http://www.dipsea.org/images/stairs2.jpg
    Looks a little intimidating.

    As usual, great report. Congrats on the great results. Sounds like you're
    back. ;-)

    --
    Phil M.

  3. "D Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    | while chatting with one guy I learned that there are 4-5 major short cuts on
    | the course, and that it's legal to take them! Know thy course.

    Legal? Since it is out and back, can somebody go a few yards down and back?

    | Stats: 1:25 (including extra 5-6 bonus minutes), place 33/350-400, 2nd
    | 55-59.
    Since you took a shortcut, I give you credit for 1:21 ( 1:25 - 00:05 + 00:1 ).
    That's is about 5:47 min/mi pace, fast on a tough course.
    You are all the way back! Great report.

  4. "D Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    My training hasn't been going so well -- I'm having trouble getting back
    into my pre-stress fracture condition. If something isn't working, change
    it. So, what the heck, I decided to take some days off, and run a race up
    North.

    The Double Dipsea race in the woods north of San Francisco has been going
    strong for about 40 years. It's mostly trail, a shade under 14 miles, an
    out and back course from Stinson Beach to Mill Valley. It has about 4400
    feet of climb, and about 1300 steps.
    See http://www.doubledipsea.com/racemaps.html for map and profile.

    1:25 for that twice?! 14+miles, trail, slow in places, and 4k+^. Holy [censored]
    Dan that's hauling - don't give us this stuff about your condition being
    bad. I've run the course (one way) when I was visiting relatives out there,
    and as I remember it was mostly rolling gentle hills, with those very steep
    stepped sections at the front and back end. Nice course, but not much shade
    in the middle.

    That's funny about the shortcuts. It reminds me of orienteering when you are
    reluctant to follow anyone even if you know they're on your course, since
    you're in charge of you're own navigation, and others may be in error even
    if they're top guys. It sure adds local flavor to the race anyway.

    -Tony

  5. "D Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Wow, what a race! I finished 33rd overall, and would have probably been
    20-ish but for the extra loop I ran. San Francisco has the toughest bunch
    of runners -- it's not unusual as in this race, for the top 5% of
    finishers to be at about 80% wava. Maybe next year, with some speedwork,
    a few less lbs, and no wrong turns I can crack the top 15-20. This one's
    on the calendar.

    Stats: 1:25 (including extra 5-6 bonus minutes), place 33/350-400, 2nd
    55-59.

    -- Dan

    Congratulations and thanks for the report.
    Come east, from the sounds of it you'd love the Escaprment trail run.

    Parker

  6. Thanks for the report, it was a nice read - and congrats!

    --
    Christos Dimitrakakis
    Homepage: http://www.idiap.ch/~dimitrak/main.html
    Music: http://olethros.dmusic.com

  7. Quoted message said:

    1:25 for that twice?!

    Nothing against Dan's talent, but something doesn't add up. I'm thinking
    typo.

    --
    Phil M.

  8. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Phil M. said:
    Quoted message said:

    1:25 for that twice?!

    Nothing against Dan's talent, but something doesn't add up. I'm thinking
    typo.

    That might be 2:25 actual, 2:05 handicap time. That's still hauling some
    serious donkey.

    Alan
    --
    Defendit numerus

  9. "Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    1:25 for that twice?!

    Nothing against Dan's talent, but something doesn't add up. I'm thinking
    typo.

    Yea, at first I was thinking they altered the course or something - or those
    shortcuts... nah! 2:25 makes sense.

    Quoted message said:

    --
    Phil M.

  10. "D Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Stats: 1:25 (including extra 5-6 bonus minutes), place 33/350-400, 2nd
    55-59.

    Big oops!!! That is 2:25...

  11. "Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The slowest part of the course was the 500+ steps down to the turn
    around in Mill Valley.

    I saw this - http://www.dipsea.org/images/stairs2.jpg
    Looks a little intimidating.

    Yeah, I basically gave up on trying to go fast, but it was fun watching the
    faster boys and girls hauling down those stairs (even a super-fast 68
    year-old Russ Kiernan flies down them).

    Quoted message said:

    As usual, great report. Congrats on the great results. Sounds like you're
    back. ;-)

    Thanks. The charge I get from racing beats whining about lousy training
    weeks every time.

  12. "I2Run" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Since you took a shortcut, I give you credit for 1:21 ( 1:25 - 00:05 +
    00:1 ).
    That's is about 5:47 min/mi pace, fast on a tough course.

    Back in the day I could go a bit faster than that -- on a flat half
    marathon! My time was 2:25 here.

    This race has 4400' of climb and lots of non-fast-runnable sections. Sorry
    for the typo, my average pace was--gasp--about 10 min/mile, which most
    locals would rate a very respectable time, but which seems impossibly slow
    to a serious road racer.

    Some miles of that were run at 6:00-ish pace, and some at slower than
    15:00/mile. The hardest running (besides the last mile) was hauling butt up
    those 500 stairs at the turn around, but the pace per mile up those steps
    was probably abysmal.

    -- Dan

  13. "Tony S." <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    1:25 for that twice?! 14+miles, trail, slow in places, and 4k+^. Holy [censored]
    Dan that's hauling - don't give us this stuff about your condition being
    bad.

    Sorry about the typo...2:25.

    Quoted message said:

    I've run the course (one way) when I was visiting relatives out there, and
    as I remember it was mostly rolling gentle hills, with those very steep
    stepped sections at the front and back end. Nice course, but not much
    shade in the middle.

    Funny how a nice rolling course gets tough when you're racing it ;-)

    Quoted message said:

    That's funny about the shortcuts. It reminds me of orienteering when you
    are reluctant to follow anyone even if you know they're on your course,
    since you're in charge of you're own navigation, and others may be in
    error even if they're top guys. It sure adds local flavor to the race
    anyway.

    We took a couple of shortcuts at the end on blind faith -- following the guy
    50 yards ahead of us. Fortunately, it worked out. Now I know 4 of them.

  14. "Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Nothing against Dan's talent, but something doesn't add up. I'm thinking
    typo.

    You're thinking corrrectly!

  15. "Alan Morgan" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    That might be 2:25 actual, 2:05 handicap time. That's still hauling some
    serious donkey.

    Thanks, Alan. Have you done any of the Dipsea flavors?

    Next year I'm going for sub 2 handicap time. I was real close before I took
    the inverse shortcut.

  16. In article <[email hidden]>,

    D Stumpus said:

    "Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The slowest part of the course was the 500+ steps down to the turn
    around in Mill Valley.

    I saw this - http://www.dipsea.org/images/stairs2.jpg
    Looks a little intimidating.

    Yeah, I basically gave up on trying to go fast, but it was fun watching the
    faster boys and girls hauling down those stairs (even a super-fast 68
    year-old Russ Kiernan flies down them).

    Quoted message said:

    As usual, great report. Congrats on the great results. Sounds like you're
    back. ;-)

    Thanks. The charge I get from racing beats whining about lousy training
    weeks every time.

    Dan,

    As others mentioned, great report. I add to the congratulations on the
    Double. So is the stress fracture a past memory or does it give you any
    concern? Looks like it didn't in the race.

    In health and on the run,

    Ozzie

    Ozzie Gontang
    [email hidden]
    Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/rec/rec.running.html
    Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975

    Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.html

  17. D Stumpus said:

    It was a perfect day as I took the scenic drive to the race. It was clear
    and cool at 7:00 am, but it would get hot under the solstice sun in a couple
    of hours. The panoramic sweep of the ocean below and the hills above made
    this one of the most scenic drives ever for me.

    Sounds like the day was going to be a winner in at least some ways.

    Quoted message said:


    When the first group took off (70-75 women), I started my 2 mile warm-up
    jog, then lined up with the 20 or 30 guys in my age division. One guy took
    off like a rocket, and I wrote him off (he ended up something like 6th
    overall). Within about a mile and a half I'd burned off the others, but
    while chatting with one guy I learned that there are 4-5 major short cuts on
    the course, and that it's legal to take them! Know thy course.

    Must be something about trail races starting in early 1900s - options
    allowed on the course and started with bets. (Dipsea itself started in
    1905.) Mt. Marathon (started 1908) also has alternative routes that one
    can take. In both cases, it sounds like the shortest route may not be
    the fastest, depending on a person's skills. 😉

    Sounds like the variable routes provided some fun as far as passing /
    being passed are concerned and added some interesting fun to the race.😉

    ....

    Quoted message said:


    Wow, what a race! I finished 33rd overall, and would have probably been
    20-ish but for the extra loop I ran. San Francisco has the toughest bunch
    of runners -- it's not unusual as in this race, for the top 5% of finishers
    to be at about 80% wava. Maybe next year, with some speedwork, a few less
    lbs, and no wrong turns I can crack the top 15-20. This one's on the
    calendar.

    Must've been a big race weekend in No. Calif with this and WS100. But
    there's lots of runners there.

    Quoted message said:


    Stats: 1:25 (including extra 5-6 bonus minutes), place 33/350-400, 2nd
    55-59.

    Gratitude Department: No falls or even stumbles, just a couple of near
    ankle-twists from moving rocks on pushoff. Almost zero soreness.

    Good job! Sounds like you had a fun and challenging day. And see what
    happens when you slow down - almost no soreness.😉

    Quoted message said:


    Cool sights of the day:

    Many toned (and friendly!) women of all ages.

    Driving through a mysterious ground fog then seeing a crop duster zip by at
    an altitude of 30 feet.

    Then a few miles later, an egret rising from the banks and giving me a
    flyover at the same altitude.

    Sounds like a perfect capping of a neat day - the egret, not the crop
    duster.

    Thanks for a neat report.

    Dot

    --
    "The goal is training and adaptation, not destruction and injury."
    - John Hardy
    http://www.mountainrunning.coolrunning.com.au/misc/training.shtml

  18. Nice race and report, Dan.

    Handicap is unusual - but sounds like a great idea.
    And the shortcuts - seems like if you're in serious
    contention you need to know the course very well!

    Anthony.

  19. "Ozzie Gontang" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    As others mentioned, great report. I add to the congratulations on the
    Double. So is the stress fracture a past memory or does it give you any
    concern? Looks like it didn't in the race.

    I felt a bit of soreness in my arch area over the last miles, but could
    adjust my stride so that it was barely there. Fortunately, after the race
    and since, there's been no aching or pain at all. When the stress fracture
    was bad, it would ache for an hour or more after a run.

    Like other serious injuries I've had, it will always be a concern, and I'll
    do my best to prevent it from reoccurring.

  20. WOW! BIG congratulations for tackling this one, Dan! And doing so well!
    I used to live up that way but never ran Dipsea. Just swam at Stinson.
    (And delivered mail in fairfax...) But I have been over some of those
    trails. I'm impressed you did it without falling, really!! I can't
    imagine a harder race of this length. Yes, find out about the legal
    shortcuts for next year. I'm waiting to hear how it goes then already!
    And great report BTW....

    Teresa in AZ

    D Stumpus said:

    My training hasn't been going so well -- I'm having trouble getting back
    into my pre-stress fracture condition. If something isn't working, change
    it. So, what the heck, I decided to take some days off, and run a race up
    North.

    The Double Dipsea race in the woods north of San Francisco has been going
    strong for about 40 years. It's mostly trail, a shade under 14 miles, an
    out and back course from Stinson Beach to Mill Valley. It has about 4400
    feet of climb, and about 1300 steps.
    See http://www.doubledipsea.com/racemaps.html for map and profile.

    It's a handicap race, with the older and fairer runners starting first, and
    the young men starting last. So the start of the race is a series of mini
    starts, as in "OK, 50-55 women start in 2 minutes!" My handicap at age 55
    gave me a 20 minute head start, or about 1:30/mile over the scratch runners.
    That's about how much slower I run mountain races these days, so it seems
    fair to *me* anyway.

    Needless to say, this brings out the good masters and women runners, because
    anyone can win, and the leader board will have both men and women of various
    ages happily cohabitating. May the best WAVA score win.

    It was a perfect day as I took the scenic drive to the race. It was clear
    and cool at 7:00 am, but it would get hot under the solstice sun in a couple
    of hours. The panoramic sweep of the ocean below and the hills above made
    this one of the most scenic drives ever for me.

    When the first group took off (70-75 women), I started my 2 mile warm-up
    jog, then lined up with the 20 or 30 guys in my age division. One guy took
    off like a rocket, and I wrote him off (he ended up something like 6th
    overall). Within about a mile and a half I'd burned off the others, but
    while chatting with one guy I learned that there are 4-5 major short cuts on
    the course, and that it's legal to take them! Know thy course.

    I was already running pretty hard (there's a 1300' climb in the first 3
    miles), and in a mostly 3 step breathing rhythm, with some excursions into 2
    step. Soon we were passing some of the older and earlier starting runners.
    This felt strange, a real change from the expanding universe effect at the
    start of a normal race. People are coming back to you from the start.

    At 3 miles I saw a guy ahead of me cut over a grassy berm -- must be one of
    the shortcuts. I passed on following him. As I rounded a curve a couple of
    minutes later, one of the 55 year olds I'd left behind me was 200 yards
    ahead of me! Damn! I noted the exit of the short cut, and vowed to catch
    it on the way back. Took me a half mile to reel that guy back in. Having
    so many people to pass was encouraging, and I got a little energy hit each
    time.

    The surface was challenging and does not play to my strengths. 1300 steps
    of varying tread widths, 2.3 million roots, a jillion rocks, and the odd
    board embedded in the trail. I cannot run fast over this stuff, and slowed
    to a crawl over a lot of the course, hardly breathing. As soon as a
    runnable section appeared, I accelerated and ran at 10k effort. So the race
    for me was like a fartleck run. At some points a nimble footed gal I'd
    passed earlier would close on me, and as soon as I could open up my stride,
    I'd take off at a low 6 minute clip and put a lot of distance on my pursuer.

    The slowest part of the course was the 500+ steps down to the turn around in
    Mill Valley. Probably 10 folks passed me down those stairs who I'd easily
    passed earlier on the runnable parts of the course. I just said "see you
    later" to myself. I was in about 30th place at the turn around, and blasted
    off to attack the stairs back up, where horsepower, not nerve was king. I
    went apes**t on the climb out of the valley and it was payback time for all
    except for a couple elites. My plan was to ease up on the next downhill,
    and attack the last 3 miles of the course. I was in about 20th place now,
    and feeling good about my prospects.

    Unfortunately, pride goeth before the fall. By this time I was alone, and I
    came to a fork in the road. There was a flourescent ribbon on the right, so
    I went right. I found my self climbing but I didn't remember this on the
    way up. After a couple of minutes I found myself joining a gaggle of
    runners who'd been 5+ minutes behind me! Geez! That was a real bummer.
    Ok, Dan, pass them again. So I poured it on and passed as many as I could,
    but I could see familiar rear ends ahead of me that I'd passed earlier, and
    I knew I wasn't going to see those butts again until the finish. There
    wasn't enough time (and runnable miles of trail) to catch them. 5-6 minutes
    is a lot of time to lose in the last 3 miles of a race.

    I did catch the shortcut on the way back that I'd missed earlier, and low
    and behold, got back about 30 seconds. I caught up with another couple of
    runners just before the nasty steep steps in the woods, so sat behind them
    as they pulled away from me. I was able to catch up on the next runnable
    section, and the three of us (my partners were a 35 year old guy who was
    prematurely gray, and 40 year old woman) ran together until the very end.

    Fortunately, we saw someone duck off into a hidden trail shortcut, and we
    followed running as fast as we could through dizzying serpentine rutted
    trail, thrashing the encroaching brush and jumping crevasses and rocks like
    there was no tomorrow.

    Finally we hit the road, with about 600 yards to the finish at the beach,
    and it was every man for himself. The young guy took off fast, and I let
    him get 15 yards on me. The gal was somewhere behind me. The kid was
    kicking his heels pretty high, he's running real hard, but I was having a
    hard time finding high gear: I was nauseated from the effort (as I'd been
    for the last couple of miles), and worried that I'd start gagging and have
    to slow. With about 50 yards to go I said what the heck, and blasted off.
    Turns out I had a *lot* left in my kick, and nearly caught him in that short
    distance. Note to self: No matter how bad you feel, blast off in the last
    150 yards!

    Wow, what a race! I finished 33rd overall, and would have probably been
    20-ish but for the extra loop I ran. San Francisco has the toughest bunch
    of runners -- it's not unusual as in this race, for the top 5% of finishers
    to be at about 80% wava. Maybe next year, with some speedwork, a few less
    lbs, and no wrong turns I can crack the top 15-20. This one's on the
    calendar.

    Stats: 1:25 (including extra 5-6 bonus minutes), place 33/350-400, 2nd
    55-59.

    Gratitude Department: No falls or even stumbles, just a couple of near
    ankle-twists from moving rocks on pushoff. Almost zero soreness.

    Cool sights of the day:

    Many toned (and friendly!) women of all ages.

    Driving through a mysterious ground fog then seeing a crop duster zip by at
    an altitude of 30 feet.

    Then a few miles later, an egret rising from the banks and giving me a
    flyover at the same altitude.

    -- Dan

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