Down's Syndrome and Cycling

Quoting Tom Crispin <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

stoker. And what effect would it have on the pilot if the stoker make
sudden and unexpected movments?

It would be extremely alarming. Fore and aft movements just cause the bike
to shift in a rather disconcerting way, but vigorous lateral movements are
right out.

Obviously the captain massively outweighing the stoker helps.

There's something one of my stokers does which gives a sensation of the
bike trying to pull to one side by about six inches. That's a movement
which we can't even track down (although this is atypically bad).
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!
Today is Leicesterday, August.

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:45:16 +0100

Tom Crispin said:

What criteria should I be looking for in a good pilot for a tandem? I
am guessing that the pilot should weigh at least 20% more than the
stoker. And what effect would it have on the pilot if the stoker make
sudden and unexpected movments? Would it put the children into
unnecessary danger? They can have as much time as required in a
traffic free environment before venturing on the road.

What do your insurers think? Might it make more sense to have an
adult pilot for the disabled child?

[speaking from absolute ignorance of the subject]

--
not me guv

in message <[email hidden]>, Tom Crispin

(') said:

There is a ten year old girl with Down's Syndrome at one of the
schools where I am running cycle training courses. All her class are
taking part in the training, and she would like to be included, but
she really doesn't want to ride a tricycle.

What criteria should I be looking for in a good pilot for a tandem? I
am guessing that the pilot should weigh at least 20% more than the
stoker. And what effect would it have on the pilot if the stoker make
sudden and unexpected movments? Would it put the children into
unnecessary danger? They can have as much time as required in a
traffic free environment before venturing on the road.

I lead a ride recently in which one of the participants had a severely
disabled downs syndrome child on a trailerbike - not a good quality one,
and the joint was very sloppy. The child had no balance, and spent a lot
of the ride leant over at a frankly alarming angle - alarming to me,
anyway. He seemed to enjoy himself greatly, although I doubt he
contributed much to propulsion.

I think the captain probably needs to be substantially heavier. I also
think captaining the disabled child may be a responsibility you don't want
to give to a child, unless perhaps a sibling. It's quite likely they will
have a low speed spill or two while mutually getting used to it, and
that's a responsibility you may not want to burden a child with.

I'd also suggest seeing if you can borrow a Pino - a tandem where the
stoker has a recumbent seat in front of the captain, who sits upright.
This would give the disabled child a much more enjoyable view, while
keeping their centre of gravity low where sudden movements can be less
upsetting.

http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/pino_specs.shtml

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for
murther
-- Robert Burns, 'Thanksgiving For a National Victory'

"Tom Crispin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There is a ten year old girl with Down's Syndrome at one of the
schools where I am running cycle training courses. All her class are
taking part in the training, and she would like to be included, but
she really doesn't want to ride a tricycle.

There is little chance that she would be able to learn to balance on a
normal bicycle. Only 10% of DS children ever do learn to ride a bike,
and her needs are quite severe.

There is a specialist centre in the US where the success rate rises to
about 80%.

http://tinyurl.com/24qdxy from:
www.mysanantonio.com/salife/family/stories/MYSA082807.01P.Bikes.220d998.html

However, that can only be a dream for the present.

I think that she would be happy riding stoker to another child on a
tandem. But I have little experience of tandems.

On Monday I am borrowing a tandem triplet from a friend, and will be
taking out an experienced cyclist classmate of the girl as 1st stoker
and the DS girl as 2nd stoker. If this proves a success, I will be
looking to raise funds to buy a S/XXS Thorn Voyager.

www.thorncycles.co.uk/enlargevoyager.html

What criteria should I be looking for in a good pilot for a tandem? I
am guessing that the pilot should weigh at least 20% more than the
stoker. And what effect would it have on the pilot if the stoker make
sudden and unexpected movments? Would it put the children into
unnecessary danger? They can have as much time as required in a
traffic free environment before venturing on the road.

I have piloted a tandem triplet for a short distance before, and had
no difficulty, but my weight is probably close to double the combined
weight of my 9 and 7 year old stokers. And that is the limit of my
tandem experience.

Has anyone any experience of two children on a tandem?

I wonder if the Tandem Club might be able to help? Alternatively
http://www.tandeming.co.uk/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1 might be
able to put you in touch with someone who can.

Nick Kew said:

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:45:16 +0100

Tom Crispin said:

What criteria should I be looking for in a good pilot for a tandem? I
am guessing that the pilot should weigh at least 20% more than the
stoker. And what effect would it have on the pilot if the stoker make
sudden and unexpected movments? Would it put the children into
unnecessary danger? They can have as much time as required in a
traffic free environment before venturing on the road.

What do your insurers think? Might it make more sense to have an
adult pilot for the disabled child?

Insurance is not a problem. Negligence would be if it is a stupid
thing to do and an accident was a result.

An adult pilot would certainly be an option. I would prefer a child
pilot if it is a reasonable option.

Quoted message said:

[speaking from absolute ignorance of the subject]

Tom Crispin said:

Has anyone any experience of two children on a tandem?

try the touring list archives, keywords 'booger' or 'david whitmon'

http://search.bikelist.org

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

"M-gineering" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Crispin said:

Has anyone any experience of two children on a tandem?

try the touring list archives, keywords 'booger' or 'david whitmon'

http://search.bikelist.org

Yeah - that's two kids behind one rather large pilot though :-)

cheers,
clive

M-gineering said:

Tom Crispin said:

Has anyone any experience of two children on a tandem?

try the touring list archives, keywords 'booger' or 'david whitmon'

http://search.bikelist.org

I was thinking of a child pilot and child stoker.

Simon Brooke said:

I'd also suggest seeing if you can borrow a Pino - a tandem where the
stoker has a recumbent seat in front of the captain, who sits upright.
This would give the disabled child a much more enjoyable view, while
keeping their centre of gravity low where sudden movements can be less
upsetting.

http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/pino_specs.shtml

London Recumbents do them - Dulwich Park.
I doubt though that it would be worth their while to drive one out to SE
London to hire it out.

On Sep 8, 1:45 am, Tom Crispin <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

There is a ten year old girl with Down's Syndrome at one of the
schools where I am running cycle training courses. All her class are
taking part in the training, and she would like to be included, but
she really doesn't want to ride a tricycle.

There is little chance that she would be able to learn to balance on a
normal bicycle. Only 10% of DS children ever do learn to ride a bike,
and her needs are quite severe.

There is a specialist centre in the US where the success rate rises to
about 80%.

http://tinyurl.com/24qdxyfrom:www.mysanantonio.com/salife/family/stories/MYSA082807.01P.Bikes.220d9...

However, that can only be a dream for the present.

I think that she would be happy riding stoker to another child on a
tandem. But I have little experience of tandems.

On Monday I am borrowing a tandem triplet from a friend, and will be
taking out an experienced cyclist classmate of the girl as 1st stoker
and the DS girl as 2nd stoker. If this proves a success, I will be
looking to raise funds to buy a S/XXS Thorn Voyager.

www.thorncycles.co.uk/enlargevoyager.html

What criteria should I be looking for in a good pilot for a tandem?

Someone that you would be happy to have on the other end of a rope on
a rock-climbing trip.

I don't know much about 10yo children but i would be very wary of
having one captaining another, especially one with disabilities
relating to balance. Tandems are big unwieldy things, most captains
probably drop their stoker once or twice, and they usually both start
off with plenty of cycling experience!

James

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't know much about 10yo children but i would be very wary of
having one captaining another, especially one with disabilities
relating to balance. Tandems are big unwieldy things, most captains
probably drop their stoker once or twice, and they usually both start
off with plenty of cycling experience!

I think I may have captained for my sister as a kid once or twice. It was my
grandparent's tandem - possibly (back to topic!) an experiment to see if my
aunt got on with it - she's got Down's.

But that was just family messing about, and I did have the advantage of 20
months age gap to give me some size - I'd not recommend it for Tom's case...

cheers,
clive

In message <1189201067.4489.109.camel@Vigor13>

John Hearns said:

Quoted message said:

I'd also suggest seeing if you can borrow a Pino - a tandem where the
stoker has a recumbent seat in front of the captain, who sits upright.
This would give the disabled child a much more enjoyable view, while
keeping their centre of gravity low where sudden movements can be less
upsetting.

http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/pino_specs.shtml

Quoted message said:

London Recumbents do them - Dulwich Park.

and do them also I understand in Battersea Park.

There are other similar sources - there's one in Bushy Park - a
charity.

--
Charles
Brompton P-type T6 in Motspur Park
LCC; CTC.

John Hearns said:

Simon Brooke said:

I'd also suggest seeing if you can borrow a Pino - a tandem where the
stoker has a recumbent seat in front of the captain, who sits upright.
This would give the disabled child a much more enjoyable view, while
keeping their centre of gravity low where sudden movements can be less
upsetting.

http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/pino_specs.shtml

London Recumbents do them - Dulwich Park.
I doubt though that it would be worth their while to drive one out to SE
London to hire it out.

Thanks, John. I'm not sure that that's the answer anyway. It may
appear to be too different for her. I'll look into it anyway.

Tom Crispin <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Thanks, John. I'm not sure that that's the answer anyway. It may
appear to be too different for her. I'll look into it anyway.

Can you get someone(s) to turn up on recumbents one week to show the pupils
so they become something cool and special and then introduce the Pino so
she becomes someone special rather than someone on the funny bike? Child
psychology 101 ;-)

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

On 7 Sep, 17:45, Tom Crispin <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

There is a ten year old girl with Down's Syndrome at one of the
schools where I am running cycle training courses. All her class are
taking part in the training, and she would like to be included, but
she really doesn't want to ride a tricycle.

Even one of these? http://www.kmxkarts.co.uk/k-class.html

Quoted message said:

In message <1189201067.4489.109.camel@Vigor13>

John Hearns said:

Quoted message said:

I'd also suggest seeing if you can borrow a Pino - a tandem where the
stoker has a recumbent seat in front of the captain, who sits upright.
This would give the disabled child a much more enjoyable view, while
keeping their centre of gravity low where sudden movements can be less
upsetting.

http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/pino_specs.shtml

Quoted message said:

London Recumbents do them - Dulwich Park.

and do them also I understand in Battersea Park.

There are other similar sources - there's one in Bushy Park - a
charity.

yes they do seem to have all sorts of bikes there, and a wide range of
folks on bikes.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com