Drafting etiquette

When racing, not to do a turn at the front is a big no no. Commuting I
think the rules are a bit more relaxed. The only thing you should never do
is catch someone, draft them and then pass & shoot away from them. That is
not looked upon kindly.
P

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I commute to work by bicycle with a fairly heavy set of panniers (about
kg) which gives me all the aerodynamics of a brick.

Relatively frequently I get overtaken by a cyclist who's unencumbered. I
gratefully tuck in and take advantage of the draft.

Now the conundrum. I've got a choice of looking like a freeloader by
hanging on the the rear tyre of the cyclist who's overtaken me or I can
return the favor, all be it briefly, and pedal my little peggies off
till the other rider gets fed up with my lack of pace and over takes
again.

What's the accepted etiquette for such a situation?

--
Cheers
Euan

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Now the conundrum. I've got a choice of looking like a freeloader by
hanging on the the rear tyre of the cyclist who's overtaken me or I

can

Quoted message said:

return the favor, all be it briefly, and pedal my little peggies off
till the other rider gets fed up with my lack of pace and over takes
again.

If you see him/her regularly, maybe just ask for a tow?
Or, get a tow and then thank them for it before you peel
off. If they don't like you sitting on, they will generally
try their hardest to drop you - as long as they know you
are there - which they should because you said "hi" to
them, right? :-)

hippy

Quoted message said:

I commute to work by bicycle with a fairly heavy set of panniers (about
kg) which gives me all the aerodynamics of a brick.

All bikes have the aerodynamics of a brick, unless you add fairings.
How about using a rack bag (for heavy bits) and backpack? That will
dramatically reduce drag. And drop bars, or aero-bars too.

Quoted message said:

Relatively frequently I get overtaken by a cyclist who's unencumbered. I
gratefully tuck in and take advantage of the draft.

Now the conundrum. I've got a choice of looking like a freeloader by

The drivers think you are a freeloader already. (see other thread) Who
cares?

Quoted message said:

hanging on the the rear tyre of the cyclist who's overtaken me or I can
return the favor, all be it briefly, and pedal my little peggies off
till the other rider gets fed up with my lack of pace and over takes
again.

What's the accepted etiquette for such a situation?

I wish there was one. Some morons think you are slowing them down by
drafting. Others resent it as invasion of personal space. I guess the
answer is to ask, or just say hi and see their reaction.

Are you talking cycleways? roads? cycle lanes?
(and yes, its bad to draft closely in traffic, or near intersections.
Lets not go over that again.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Mike" == Mike <[email hidden]> writes:

Mike said:

Quoted message said:

I commute to work by bicycle with a fairly heavy set of panniers
(about kg) which gives me all the aerodynamics of a brick.

Mike> All bikes have the aerodynamics of a brick, unless you add
Mike> fairings. How about using a rack bag (for heavy bits) and
Mike> backpack? That will dramatically reduce drag. And drop bars,
Mike> or aero-bars too.

Sheer volume really. Unfortunately I have to lug a laptop around which
fills one Ortelieb pannier to capacity. The other one has change of
clothes, food etc. Carrying all that on my back for 40Ks a day would
get tiring real fast.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Relatively frequently I get overtaken by a cyclist who's
unencumbered. I gratefully tuck in and take advantage of the
draft. Now the conundrum. I've got a choice of looking like a
freeloader by

Mike> The drivers think you are a freeloader already. (see other
Mike> thread) Who cares?

Ah yes, the they don't even pay rego brigade.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hanging on the the rear tyre of the cyclist who's overtaken me or
I can return the favor, all be it briefly, and pedal my little
peggies off till the other rider gets fed up with my lack of pace
and over takes again. What's the accepted etiquette for such a
situation?

Mike> I wish there was one. Some morons think you are slowing them
Mike> down by drafting. Others resent it as invasion of personal
Mike> space. I guess the answer is to ask, or just say hi and see
Mike> their reaction.

Mike> Are you talking cycleways? roads? cycle lanes? (and yes, its
Mike> bad to draft closely in traffic, or near intersections. Lets
Mike> not go over that again.)

Main roads such as Nepean, Esplanade etc, North Road etc. I get about a
bit.
--
Cheers
Euan

Quoted message said:

Mike> fairings. How about using a rack bag (for heavy bits) and
Mike> backpack? That will dramatically reduce drag. And drop bars,
Mike> or aero-bars too.

Sheer volume really. Unfortunately I have to lug a laptop around which
fills one Ortelieb pannier to capacity. The other one has change of
clothes, food etc. Carrying all that on my back for 40Ks a day would
get tiring real fast.

I'm not brave enough to carry the laptop in a pannier, so use a backpack.

If you could somehow carry all your gear behind you, instead of sticking
out sideways into the air, the ride mighty be less tiring.
Sorry to wander so OT.

Mike said:

Quoted message said:

Mike> fairings. How about using a rack bag (for heavy bits) and
Mike> backpack? That will dramatically reduce drag. And drop bars,
Mike> or aero-bars too.

Sheer volume really. Unfortunately I have to lug a laptop around which
fills one Ortelieb pannier to capacity. The other one has change of
clothes, food etc. Carrying all that on my back for 40Ks a day would
get tiring real fast.

I'm not brave enough to carry the laptop in a pannier, so use a
backpack.
If you could somehow carry all your gear behind you, instead of sticking
out sideways into the air, the ride mighty be less tiring. Sorry to
wander so OT.

Mike is right. When I did this move over a year ago, the effect wa
obvious. It's not just the gain in aerodynamics, but the handling. M
heavy panniers unsettled the bike at bumpy curves. It's a lot bette
with the right backpack. However, the centre of gravity will rise, whic
takes a little getting used to

My load weighs anything between 6-10 kg. I use a 30L Berghaus bag whic
straps on properly. It also has a the construct keeping the flat surfac
of the bag away from my back helping with less perspiration

As long as drafting goes, I always think about it when I see people d
it in a variety of ways. Personally, I commute for the work out
Drafting would defeat that idea, wouldn't it

-

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sheer volume really. Unfortunately I have to lug a laptop around which
fills one Ortelieb pannier to capacity. The other one has change of
clothes, food etc. Carrying all that on my back for 40Ks a day would
get tiring real fast.

It's not that bad. I do 50ks [1] 2-3 days a week [2] with laptop and
clothes. The trick is to strip down what you carry as much as possible
- I have a second set of shoes at work, I leave my shower gear there
as long as possible, and I carry a minimum of gear. It's still heavy,
but it doesn't kill me, therefore it makes me stronger.

Dave - who has a rack on that bike, but the pack doesn't mount on it
very well

[1] 23 in, 27 home. I avoid nasty traffic by going the longer, hillier
way on the way home.
[2] Hmm, I'm surprised Michael "Dr Evil" Costa isn't trying to charge
me for the enforced get fit program that could see this jump to 5 days
a week...

--
Dave Hughes
[email hidden]
"We live in the interface between radioactive molten rock and hard
vacuum and we worry about safety." -- Chris Hunt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Random" == Random Data <[email hidden]> writes:

Random> [email hidden] wrote in message
Random> news:<[email hidden]>...

Random> It's not that bad. I do 50ks [1] 2-3 days a week [2] with
Random> laptop and clothes. The trick is to strip down what you
Random> carry as much as possible - I have a second set of shoes at
Random> work, I leave my shower gear there as long as possible, and
Random> I carry a minimum of gear. It's still heavy, but it doesn't
Random> kill me, therefore it makes me stronger.

Ex military, past master at stripping down ;-)

Trouble is that I work in three different locations; in two of those
locations there's no set space for me if you know what I mean.

--
Cheers
Euan

drafting whilst commuting inevitably means shorter spurts as you ge
lost/drop someone at the next lights or change rout

drafting someone you arent familiar with is probably the worst part a
oyu have no real knowledge (apart from a guess as to their bike and th
look of their legs) of how good this person is in traffic or aroun
other rider

You really have to be aware of what's in front of them unless they ar
experienced and considerate enough to signal to you about that upcomin
parked car, et

-

"Paulus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

When racing, not to do a turn at the front is a big no no.

[snip]

What are you on about ? Where do you race and who told you that ?
There are guys who make a living in races, from hack club races to the
TdF NEVER doing a turn at the front, and they are genreally called
sprinters.

It's perfectly acceptable part of racing not to pull a turn. Unless
you are part of a break, or chasing a break, or stringing the bunch
out to pop off the sprinters, why waste the energy ? There is always
some sap who'll pull the turns, never to be seen come podium time.

It is a race afterall.

Unless it's a handicap race, of course.

rickster wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

It's perfectly acceptable part of racing not to pull a turn. Unless
you are part of a break, or chasing a break, or stringing the bunch
out to pop off the sprinters, why waste the energy ? There is always
some sap who'll pull the turns, never to be seen come podium time.

It is a race afterall.

Unless it's a handicap race, of course.

And even in h'cap races, not everyone pulls turns ... often because they
are flat out hanging on. Been there! :-)

&roo

"amirm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike is right. When I did this move over a year ago, the effect was
obvious. It's not just the gain in aerodynamics, but the handling. My
heavy panniers unsettled the bike at bumpy curves.

Spend the money to get better panniers, a better rack and pack the bags
securely.

Quoted message said:

It's a lot better
with the right backpack. However, the centre of gravity will rise, which
takes a little getting used to.

Lower centr of gravity with panniers makes for much better stability than a
backpack. Not to mention the lack of a sweaty back.

Cheers
Peter

"Mike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All bikes have the aerodynamics of a brick, unless you add fairings.
How about using a rack bag (for heavy bits) and backpack? That will
dramatically reduce drag. And drop bars, or aero-bars too.

A backpack with aero/drop bars to bend you forward sounds like simply
transferring the brick to a higher location.

Cheers
Peter

Peter Signorini said:

A backpack with aero/drop bars to bend you forward sounds like simply
transferring the brick to a higher location.

Brick? Weight is of little importance, unless you are hill climbing,
or stop/starting a lot.
It's drag, which is proportional to frontal cross-section area that
matters. Putting bags in the "wind shadow" of your body makes the
ride easier (or faster).
Of course, if you are in the city, stopping and starting, and with
hills, you are so slow anyway, it doesnt make much difference.

Number one rule is NO FARTING ! 8-)
<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I commute to work by bicycle with a fairly heavy set of panniers (about
kg) which gives me all the aerodynamics of a brick.

Relatively frequently I get overtaken by a cyclist who's unencumbered. I
gratefully tuck in and take advantage of the draft.

Now the conundrum. I've got a choice of looking like a freeloader by
hanging on the the rear tyre of the cyclist who's overtaken me or I can
return the favor, all be it briefly, and pedal my little peggies off
till the other rider gets fed up with my lack of pace and over takes
again.

What's the accepted etiquette for such a situation?

--
Cheers
Euan

"Mike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Signorini said:

A backpack with aero/drop bars to bend you forward sounds like simply
transferring the brick to a higher location.

Brick? Weight is of little importance, unless you are hill climbing,
or stop/starting a lot.
It's drag, which is proportional to frontal cross-section area that
matters. Putting bags in the "wind shadow" of your body makes the
ride easier (or faster).

That is exactly my point. Lot's of riders cycle with a backpack on then bend
into a tuck with your drop bars. They don't seem to realise that they may be
cancelling out any aero benefits. You may be OK with a pack that sits low
down, but lots use backpacks that are high on their shoulders and stick up
into the slipstream once they get into a tuck. There's really not much
aerodynamic advantage over panniers then, and lots of disadvantages.

Cheers
Peter