Dragging little'uns around



P

Philip Armstron

Guest
Spring has spring etc etc and thoughts turn to acquiring a
cycle trailer in order to drag our 10 month old around the
hills (ok, mounds) of Oxfordshire.

I had thought about a child seat on the back, but a
combination of perceived (by me at least) risk of dropping
the sprog sideways onto his head with a child seat and the
bonus of getting luggage capacity with a trailer seems
compelling.

So, any cycle trailer recs?

And questions:

Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets
for little-uns are worthwhile, even given the
acknowledged lack of evidence for any real protection
offered to adults?

(My feeling is that chidren are more likely to bump their
heads {lack of physical strength combined with greater
weight of head in proportion to body} and thus gain greater
benefit from a suitable helmet.)

Thoughts?

cheers,

Phil
--
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key:
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt
 
On 26/4/04 3:21 pm, in article [email protected], "Philip
Armstrong" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

probably too young for a child seat but fine with a trailer,
especially as you can strap a car seat in there.
>
> Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets
> for little-uns are worthwhile, even given the
> acknowledged lack of evidence for any real protection
> offered to adults?

Yes and no. You have to be careful about the extra strain on
the neck. I reckoned that a child in a trailer doesn't need
a helmet. Maybe it's my riding but they don't fall asleep on
the back of the bike, only in the trailer.

> (My feeling is that chidren are more likely to bump their
> heads {lack of physical strength combined with greater
> weight of head in proportion to body} and thus gain
> greater benefit from a suitable helmet.)

I have never dropped the bike with a child on board. One
does tend to be a lot more careful.

Go for the trailer, you won't regret it, especially if you
get one that can be converted to a pushchair.

..d
 
Philip Armstrong wrote:

> Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

Its generally reckoned that 6 months is the youngest a child
should be in a childseat, but the governing factor is the
strength of the neck. I used a child seat for my eldest from
7 months and she thoroughly enjoyed it, especially kicking
dad up the rear. You will need to ensure that feet are
protected from teh wheels - more important as the legs grow
longer, and that teddy is firmly attached on a short piece
of cord. You also need to be careful parking a bike. Never
leave it resting against a wall (or anything)as the
youngster can push the wall amd topple the bike over.

However, that said I do beleive a trailer is a much better
option and since then we have had another three children who
have all taken the trailer route.

> Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets for
> little-uns are worthwhile, even given the acknowledged
> lack of evidence for any real protection offered to
> adults?

I think a helmet is a good idea, certainly in a child seat.
I was convinced of this when on a cycle camping holiday in
Corsica and my front low-rider pannier clipped a kerb. (I
was doing about 2mph at the time). the bike fell over and my
youngster got a small bruise on the forehead. I have never
forgiven myself (although I am still firmly anti-
compulsion). However, my children only wear helmets now if
they wish to as I'd prefer they rode than not at all.

> (My feeling is that chidren are more likely to bump their
> heads {lack of physical strength combined with greater
> weight of head in proportion to body} and thus gain
> greater benefit from a suitable helmet.)

See above.

> Thoughts?

I would certainly go for a trailer. We used a Burley d'Lite
which although pricey was well-worth the money. Our other
children went into it from the age of six weeks by using a
carrycot strapped in. Once their necks were strong enough a
light car seat was strapped into the trailer. From around
3yrs 6months they went onto the backs of tandems (or tandem
trike) with kiddiecranks and helped pull their younger
siblings, before moving onto their own bikes.

For one period we had kiddiecranks and a kiddieseat on a
tandem trike and of course the stability problem did not
arise. This was perhaps our best combination.

The trailer handled superbly and other than the weight, had
no effect on handling. There was also plenty of space at the
rear for some of our camping equipment and other bits and
bobs - such as nappies when very young. A big advantage was
parking when we would just stop without the worry of having
to unstrap from a kiddieseat on an unstable bike. When in
the trailer the children never wore helmets. The tandems,
and trailer have covered much of UK and Europe, and it was a
sad day when we had to sell the trailer, albeit to a very
good home. The tandem and tandem trike are still
occasionally used.

All four chlldren are now on their own bikes and regularly
cycle, so something must have been right.

Hope this helps.

John B
 
> Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

No. My now strapping teenager spent much of his babyhood in
a childseat on my bike, which was my then normal form of
transport. He wore a helmet, was strapped in with a five-
point harness, and went all over the place with me -
shopping, leisure cycling... It hasn't adversely affected
his brain as far as I can tell, as he passed a GCSE 2 years
early and is now taking another bunch a year early :)

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get
correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel
is switched off--
 
In article <BCB2DC2D.13484%[email protected]>,
David Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 26/4/04 3:21 pm, in article 0givl1-
>[email protected], "Philip Armstrong"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?
>
>probably too young for a child seat but fine with a
>trailer, especially as you can strap a car seat in there.

This was my inital impression.

>> Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets for
>> little-uns are worthwhile, even given the acknowledged
>> lack of evidence for any real protection offered to
>> adults?
>
>Yes and no. You have to be careful about the extra strain
>on the neck. I reckoned that a child in a trailer doesn't
>need a helmet. Maybe it's my riding but they don't fall
>asleep on the back of the bike, only in the trailer.

Hmm. I can't help feel that the arguments about torsional
injuries probably apply equally to children as well,
especially as the ratio of head size / helmet size is even
greater for them than for adults. So I'm a bit torn on the
issue to be honest. Argle.

>> (My feeling is that chidren are more likely to bump their
>> heads {lack of physical strength combined with greater
>> weight of head in proportion to body} and thus gain
>> greater benefit from a suitable helmet.)
>
>I have never dropped the bike with a child on board. One
>does tend to be a lot more careful.

http://www.bhsi.org/kidseats.htm suggests that 50% of child
injuries from bike seats are head injuries. On the other
hand, it's bhsi, so they're about as reliable as bhit over
here AFAICS. ie not very...

>Go for the trailer, you won't regret it, especially if you
>get one that can be converted to a pushchair.

I'm tempted by the Burley DLite. Expensive though. Anyone
used one & has an opinion?

Phil
--
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key:
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt
 
Philip Armstrong wrote:
>

> I'm tempted by the Burley DLite. Expensive though. Anyone
> used one & has an opinion?

See my post.

You won't regret it.

John B
 
We took our son out for his first trip in the Chariot Cougar
trailer we've just bought. I really enjoyed it - it was a
pleasure to pull although I now have a great deal of respect
for Rickshaw pilots. I could certainly feel the extra load
in me legs.

The trailer itself is really nice - decent size (20") spoked
wheels with proper tyres, turns into a buggy easily, has
adjustable leaf spring suspension and looks dead cool (I
reckon) - from the number of people who stop to look at it I
reckon it could pay for itself if I sold advertising space
on the sides. We've also got a baby seat as an extra insert
which has a head support and enabled the nipper to make his
first trip on Saturday at the grand old age of 7 weeks.

I think you can see the trailers on www.twoplustwo.uk.com.

"Philip Armstrong" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:0givl1-
[email protected]...
> Spring has spring etc etc and thoughts turn to acquiring a
> cycle trailer in order to drag our 10 month old around the
> hills (ok, mounds) of Oxfordshire.
>
> I had thought about a child seat on the back, but a
> combination of perceived (by me at least) risk of dropping
> the sprog sideways onto his head with a child seat and the
> bonus of getting luggage capacity with a trailer seems
> compelling.
>
> So, any cycle trailer recs?
>
> And questions:
>
> Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?
>
> Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets for
> little-uns are worthwhile, even given the acknowledged
> lack of evidence for any real protection offered to
> adults?
>
> (My feeling is that chidren are more likely to bump their
> heads {lack of physical strength combined with greater
> weight of head in proportion to body} and thus gain
> greater benefit from a suitable helmet.)
>
> Thoughts?
>
> cheers,
>
> Phil
> --
> http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key:
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt
 
In article <408d2b35$0$909$9b0f33e3@clyde>,
Jon Spencer <[email protected]> wrote:
>We took our son out for his first trip in the Chariot
>Cougar trailer we've just bought. I really enjoyed it - it
>was a pleasure to pull although I now have a great deal of
>respect for Rickshaw pilots. I could certainly feel the
>extra load in me legs.

That looks like something out of an 80s sideways scrolling
shoot'em'up
:)

(love the ski attachment, shame I can't ski...)

Phil

--
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key:
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt
 
Our little treasure started at 7 months too and absolutely
loved it, he is average size and weight for his age.

We stick him in the luxurious surroundings of a "Limo" see
http://www.cyclesurgery.com/ProductDetails/mcs/ProductID/20-
64/GroupID/13/CategoryID/34/v/

It's got side protection and harness and pullover bar (ala
modern rollercoasters) on the begative side when you're
climbing hills it weighs a tonne (not literally, but
seemingly) and balancing whilst putting in / taking out of
seat can be tricky if baby gets a wriggle on... often best
attempted with help if you have an "active" child :)

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
>> Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?
> No. My now strapping teenager spent much of his babyhood
> in a childseat on my bike, which was my then normal form
> of transport. He wore a helmet, was strapped in with a
> five-point harness, and went all over the place with me
> - shopping, leisure cycling... It hasn't adversely
> affected his brain as far as I can tell, as he passed a
> GCSE 2 years early and is now taking another bunch a
> year early :)
 
On 26/4/04 4:06 pm, in article [email protected], "Philip
Armstrong" <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <BCB2DC2D.13484%[email protected]>,
> David Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 26/4/04 3:21 pm, in article 0givl1-
>> [email protected], "Philip Armstrong"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?
>>
>> probably too young for a child seat but fine with a
>> trailer, especially as you can strap a car seat in there.
>
> This was my inital impression.

Other posters differ. I defer to them but suggest you make
your own decision.

>>> Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets for
>>> little-uns are worthwhile, even given the acknowledged
>>> lack of evidence for any real protection offered to
>>> adults?
>>
>> Yes and no. You have to be careful about the extra strain
>> on the neck. I reckoned that a child in a trailer doesn't
>> need a helmet. Maybe it's my riding but they don't fall
>> asleep on the back of the bike, only in the trailer.
>
> Hmm. I can't help feel that the arguments about torsional
> injuries probably apply equally to children as well,
> especially as the ratio of head size / helmet size is even
> greater for them than for adults. So I'm a bit torn on the
> issue to be honest. Argle.

I'd reckon that you would get more direct impact than
torsional so would reckon that a helmet is probably in its
optimal use envelope there. I'm more concerned about the
effect on the neck. If you have a child seat with a high
back, some helmets will not fit comfortably on the head as
they will clash with the seat back. Your call depending on
which seat you have.

>> Go for the trailer, you won't regret it, especially if
>> you get one that can be converted to a pushchair.
>
> I'm tempted by the Burley DLite. Expensive though. Anyone
> used one & has an opinion?

We went the expensive way and got a Winther Dolphin. This
has been excellent, surviving several children and a lot
of shopping trips. The main advantage for me was that it
has a solid ABS floor/seat construction rather than fabric
so it is very wear resistant. Very nice to push as a
pushchair as well. I fitted a klick-fix mount to the
handlebar so I can just lock up the bike and shift the bar
bag onto the trailer.

The Cougar looks so cool, like one of those walkers out of
star wars when on skis.

..d
 
In message <[email protected]>, Philip
Armstrong <[email protected]> writes
>
>http://www.bhsi.org/kidseats.htm suggests that 50% of child
>injuries from bike seats are head injuries. On the other
>hand, it's bhsi, so they're about as reliable as bhit over
>here AFAICS. ie not very...
>

I can believe this one though, most modern bike seats seem
to have quite deep sides etc. so children are probably well
protected in the body area from bike falls etc. the head is
probably one area that could be injured more easily.

>>Go for the trailer, you won't regret it, especially if you
>>get one that can be converted to a pushchair.
>
>I'm tempted by the Burley DLite. Expensive though. Anyone
>used one & has an opinion?

It looks very nice :)

Never used one though, I bought a Chariot Chauffeur 2 years
ago. Which I've been very happy with. Sturdy, folds very
quickly and easily.

I went for the Weber hitch option, and am pleased I did as
it makes hitching and unhitching a very quick process -
though the Chariot trailers have a newer hitch system which
is better than the original.

I notice from the two plus Two site that they also sell a
seat support for younger children (it says 20 months) I
might have considered that, as they do tend to flop over to
one side when asleep because the seats lack side support,
though Elinor never seems fussed by this I do have a blow up
neck support cushion I some times use.

I've never found much need myself for the pushchair option,
I preferred to use a sling if necessary,

<http://www.huggababy.co.uk/>

though did on a few occasions take a pushchair bungeed in
the 'boot'. Though I can see why other people might find
it useful.
--
Chris French, Leeds
 
In message <BCB2F288.134BB%[email protected]>,
David Martin
<[email protected]> writes
>We went the expensive way and got a Winther Dolphin. This
>has been excellent, surviving several children and a lot of
>shopping trips. The main advantage for me was that it has a
>solid ABS floor/seat construction rather than fabric so it
>is very wear resistant.

I was a little concerned about possible wear before buying
our Chariot (fabric floor). however, after 2 years of pretty
heavy usage it isn't showing any signs of wear at all.

I did chuck in a couple of cheap rubber car mats to keep it
a bit cleaner.

--
Chris French, Leeds
 
In message <408d2b35$0$909$9b0f33e3@clyde>, Jon Spencer
<[email protected]> writes
>We took our son out for his first trip in the Chariot
>Cougar trailer we've just bought. I really enjoyed it - it
>was a pleasure to pull although I now have a great deal of
>respect for Rickshaw pilots. I could certainly feel the
>extra load in me legs.

Wait till he is old enough to complain that you aren't going
fast enough as you struggle up a steep hill......
>
>The trailer itself is really nice - decent size (20")
>spoked wheels with proper tyres, turns into a buggy easily,
>has adjustable leaf spring suspension and looks dead cool
>(I reckon) - from the number of people who stop to look at
>it I reckon it could pay for itself if I sold advertising
>space on the sides.

DD is the envy of the nursery when I use it to pick her up
:) The kids outside all gather up at the fence to ogle

>We've also got a baby seat as an extra insert which has a
>head support and enabled the nipper to make his first trip
>on Saturday at the grand old age of 7 weeks.

Is one of the child trailer specific ones, or just a
standard car set? I know that you can fit a car seat, but
they look too bulky to be able to use it with another child
- which I hope to do after the 2nd arrives in Nov. I see
that Chariot do one specifically for their trailers, and
that Weber to a plastic 'Baby Bowl'
--
Chris French, Leeds
 
chris French wrote:
>
> In message <BCB2F288.134BB%[email protected]>,
> David Martin
> <[email protected]> writes
> >We went the expensive way and got a Winther Dolphin. This
> >has been excellent, surviving several children and a lot
> >of shopping trips. The main advantage for me was that it
> >has a solid ABS floor/seat construction rather than
> >fabric so it is very wear resistant.
>
> I was a little concerned about possible wear before
> buying our Chariot (fabric floor). however, after 2
> years of pretty heavy usage it isn't showing any signs
> of wear at all.

I felt the same about our Burley d'Lite but it had seven
years of pretty heavy use and not even a scuff. Excellent
wearing quality.

John B
 
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:21:20 +0100, [email protected] (Philip
Armstrong) wrote:

>Spring has spring etc etc and thoughts turn to acquiring a
>cycle trailer in order to drag our 10 month old around the
>hills (ok, mounds) of Oxfordshire.
>
>I had thought about a child seat on the back, but a
>combination of perceived (by me at least) risk of dropping
>the sprog sideways onto his head with a child seat and the
>bonus of getting luggage capacity with a trailer seems
>compelling.

Agreed. It's just a total nightmare getting a sleeping child
into a bike seat while also holding the bike.

>So, any cycle trailer recs?

Burley D'lite did splendid service for mine.

>And questions:
>
> Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?

I'm sure someone will say it's bad for their heads/necks or
something. Mine both survived though.

> Is it the consensus of the group that cycle helmets for
> little-uns are worthwhile, even given the acknowledged
> lack of evidence for any real protection offered to
> adults?

Consensus? I started off with helmets (in the child seat)
but it became a bit of a chore. They would only tolerate
wearing them if done up pointlessly loose and soon learned
to fling them off.

Certainly never bothered with them when using the
trailer. Despite the manufacturer's promise of mortal
danger caused by not wearing helmets (or, indeed, not
being strapped in, daring to use the trailer 'in traffic'
and 'cornering at >5mph').

>(My feeling is that chidren are more likely to bump their
>heads {lack of physical strength combined with greater
>weight of head in proportion to body} and thus gain greater
>benefit from a suitable helmet.)
>
>Thoughts?
>
>cheers,
>
>Phil

--

Transport & Urban Planning Blog

now at http://notonmywatch.blogs.com
 
I forgot to mention a friend of a friend who used a 2nd hand
car child seat, a rack and some octopus clips.

Very thrifty, I suppose.
--

Transport & Urban Planning Blog

now at http://notonmywatch.blogs.com
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[Not Responding] <[email protected]> wrote:
> >So, any cycle trailer recs?

> Burley D'lite did splendid service for mine.

imvho the Burley Cub is the best trailer ever made - it
is certainly the one which has kept my customers and me
very happy.

--
A T (Sandy) Morton on the Bicycle Island In the Global
Village http://www.millport.net
 
On 27/4/04 8:59 pm, in article [email protected],
"[Not Responding]" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:21:20 +0100, [email protected]
> (Philip Armstrong) wrote:

>> I had thought about a child seat on the back, but a
>> combination of perceived (by me at least) risk of
>> dropping the sprog sideways onto his head with a child
>> seat and the bonus of getting luggage capacity with a
>> trailer seems compelling.

> Agreed. It's just a total nightmare getting a sleeping
> child into a bike seat while also holding the bike.

I have a kick stand mounted on the trailer hitch. This holds
the bike sufficiently well that I can put the child in the
seat quite happily without needing to hold the bike.

>> And questions:
>>
>> Is 10 months too young for a trailer or child seat?
>
> I'm sure someone will say it's bad for their heads/necks
> or something. Mine both survived though.

I used a cut down plastic car seat in the trailer padded
with bits of a cheapo sleep mat. That provided sufficient
head support. I used the trailer for little ones as I could
keep them warm and dry out of the wind, rain and snow.

> Consensus? I started off with helmets (in the child seat)
> but it became a bit of a chore. They would only tolerate
> wearing them if done up pointlessly loose and soon learned
> to fling them off.

Mine are quite happy with helmets but I wouldn't not ride
just because they wouldn't wear a helmet. If I thought it
was that dangerous that they *must* wear a helmet I wouldn't
be doing it.

>
> Certainly never bothered with them when using the trailer.
> Despite the manufacturer's promise of mortal danger caused
> by not wearing helmets (or, indeed, not being strapped in,
> daring to use the trailer 'in traffic' and 'cornering at
> >5mph').

My trailer has documented limits of 20 mph (I've done 30mph
but not with kids) and about 12 mph for corners. I've never
flipped it though did come close when I clipped the kerb (no
kids in at that time).

The more weight you have in, the better for stability.

I found that the suspension was too hard when the kids were
very small.. rolling over painted lines would provide enough
vibration to wake them up if the tyres wee at full pressure
so I'd run them soft so they acred as suspension. Once the
kids were over about 18 months or if I had a decent amount
of luggage in the trailer the trailers suspension was fine.

..d
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Cadence for very little
Replies
5
Views
439
UK and Europe
Jim Price
J
R
A Little Guy On Wheels
Replies
0
Views
305
UK and Europe
[email protected]
R
S
back wheel/hub a little too wide
Replies
5
Views
316
UK and Europe
spokes
S
W
For a little light relief
Replies
4
Views
187
UK and Europe
Just Visiting
J
C
Looking for a little knee help...
Replies
13
Views
400
UK and Europe
permajeo
permajeo
Top Bottom Back