Drilling a stem?

Antti Salonen said:

I have a cyclocross bike with a pretty poor cable routing for the front
brake cable. There are no spacers under the stem, so the cable stop is
very close to the stem. I ordered a noodled cable stop with a 45-degree
bend from Harris Cyclery which makes the routing possible, but there's
quite a bit of friction.

Here's a photograph, which doesn't show the problem area very well.
I could take take a better one in the evening.

http://www.helsinki.fi/~aksalone/crosscheck.jpg

I'm guessing that the routing with least friction would be to have a
regular cable stop right under the stem and drill holes in the stem.
This would avoid the tight 45-degree bend in the cable stop and also
allow a wider-radius bend from under the bartape into the cable stop.

The bike has a Ritchey WCS stem, 90 mm long and about 130 grams. I've
heard of this being done on cross bikes, so it is a safety issue?

-as

I wouldn't drill a WCS stem, but once in the past I had a similar
situation with a mountain bike (also with cantiliever brakes). I solved
it by simply leaving the housing long enough to drape it over the stem
and down one side to the brake. Even though there was *no* housing
stop, and the cable approached the straddle wire a bit from the side,
it worked really well for several years (until I sold the bike). It was
also very light. ;-)

Antti Salonen said:

I have a cyclocross bike with a pretty poor cable routing for the
front brake cable. There are no spacers under the stem, so the
cable stop is very close to the stem. I ordered a noodled cable
stop with a 45-degree bend from Harris Cyclery which makes
the routing possible, but there's quite a bit of friction.

How about a crown-mounted cable stop, like this one:

"NEW! CAH59 Fork Crown Housing Stop"
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/cables.html#brakecablehardware

James Thomson

Antti Salonen said:

I have a cyclocross bike with a pretty poor cable routing for the front
brake cable. There are no spacers under the stem, so the cable stop is
very close to the stem. I ordered a noodled cable stop with a 45-degree
bend from Harris Cyclery which makes the routing possible, but there's
quite a bit of friction.

Here's a photograph, which doesn't show the problem area very well.
I could take take a better one in the evening.

http://www.helsinki.fi/~aksalone/crosscheck.jpg

I'm guessing that the routing with least friction would be to have a
regular cable stop right under the stem and drill holes in the stem.
This would avoid the tight 45-degree bend in the cable stop and also
allow a wider-radius bend from under the bartape into the cable stop.

The bike has a Ritchey WCS stem, 90 mm long and about 130 grams. I've
heard of this being done on cross bikes, so it is a safety issue?

-as

you could try a cheaper [thicker walled] stem and drill that - lots of
early mtb stems were drilled in this way and i don't recall seeing any
failure issues. the wcs is too light to do this though imo - and if
you're riding a crosscheck, i doubt weight is your primary concern so a
heavier stem should be no problem.

regarding the cable run, there should not be much of a friction problem.
are you sure the cable's cut square so it's not pinching at the end?
and the noodle still has its liner?

Antti Salonen said:

I have a cyclocross bike with a pretty poor cable routing for the front
brake cable. There are no spacers under the stem, so the cable stop is
very close to the stem. I ordered a noodled cable stop with a 45-degree
bend from Harris Cyclery which makes the routing possible, but there's
quite a bit of friction.

Here's a photograph, which doesn't show the problem area very well.
I could take take a better one in the evening.

http://www.helsinki.fi/~aksalone/crosscheck.jpg

I'm guessing that the routing with least friction would be to have a
regular cable stop right under the stem and drill holes in the stem.
This would avoid the tight 45-degree bend in the cable stop and also
allow a wider-radius bend from under the bartape into the cable stop.

The bike has a Ritchey WCS stem, 90 mm long and about 130 grams. I've
heard of this being done on cross bikes, so it is a safety issue?

-as

a popular trick is to fabricate a hanger suspended from the lower
faceplatebolt
--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

Antti Salonen said:

I have a cyclocross bike with a pretty poor cable routing for the front
brake cable. There are no spacers under the stem, so the cable stop is
very close to the stem. I ordered a noodled cable stop with a 45-degree
bend from Harris Cyclery which makes the routing possible, but there's
quite a bit of friction.

Here's a photograph, which doesn't show the problem area very well.
I could take take a better one in the evening.

http://www.helsinki.fi/~aksalone/crosscheck.jpg

I'm guessing that the routing with least friction would be to have a
regular cable stop right under the stem and drill holes in the stem.
This would avoid the tight 45-degree bend in the cable stop and also
allow a wider-radius bend from under the bartape into the cable stop.

The bike has a Ritchey WCS stem, 90 mm long and about 130 grams. I've
heard of this being done on cross bikes, so it is a safety issue?

-as

I have drilled stems to help cable routing but I would get a beefy stem
and drill that. You can also try routing the cable/housing in a loop,
over the handlebar and then into the stop.

HIghly NOT recommended. Stem is a very high stress area. When you
drill it = 2 holes, you greatly reduced the integrity of the stem. If
its a steel stem that you just go for a short ride once a while - maybe
!. You are gambling with yourself and the people riding with you.

Try this
Get a aluminum tube (like the older shimano v- brakes - noodle) and use
a tube bender from home depo or so. Dont try to bend sharp angles by
hand it will "kink" and you will then need another one.

Antti Salonen said:

I'm guessing that the routing with least friction would be to have a
regular cable stop right under the stem and drill holes in the stem.
This would avoid the tight 45-degree bend in the cable stop and also
allow a wider-radius bend from under the bartape into the cable stop.

The bike has a Ritchey WCS stem, 90 mm long and about 130 grams. I've
heard of this being done on cross bikes, so it is a safety issue?

I'll chime in about the safety concern. The stem is not the place to be
doing something like that if you can avoid it.

One solution that hasn't been suggested yet would be to replace the front
brake with a V-brake. Why not? It's a cheap, reliable option.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Accept risk. Accept responsibility. Put a lawyer out of
_`\(,_ | business.
(_)/ (_) |

or convert or use one of those roller thingy. I dont use them but i
heard there is a cam for v brakes for road levers and roller for the
rear derailleur to reduce friction. Just a suggestion

Please dont drillllllllll !!!!

IRD make a deep drop cable hanger.
http://store.interlocracing.com/lodrcaha.html.

Nick

"Antti Salonen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a cyclocross bike with a pretty poor cable routing for the front
brake cable. There are no spacers under the stem, so the cable stop is
very close to the stem. I ordered a noodled cable stop with a 45-degree
bend from Harris Cyclery which makes the routing possible, but there's
quite a bit of friction.

Here's a photograph, which doesn't show the problem area very well.
I could take take a better one in the evening.

http://www.helsinki.fi/~aksalone/crosscheck.jpg

I'm guessing that the routing with least friction would be to have a
regular cable stop right under the stem and drill holes in the stem.
This would avoid the tight 45-degree bend in the cable stop and also
allow a wider-radius bend from under the bartape into the cable stop.

The bike has a Ritchey WCS stem, 90 mm long and about 130 grams. I've
heard of this being done on cross bikes, so it is a safety issue?

-as

jim beam said:

regarding the cable run, there should not be much of a friction problem.
are you sure the cable's cut square so it's not pinching at the end?
and the noodle still has its liner?

Yes on both counts. The cable slides very smoothly in the housing but
not so through the 45-degree noodled hanger (which does have the liner
in place).

Another reason why I'd also like to switch away from the noodled hanger
is that currently I have no means of cable adjustment. I have a
Dia-compe hanger which has an adjuster, but I can't use it without
drilling the stem. V brakes would be another possibility because I
have a pair of Dia-compe V brake noodles with adjustment barrels lying
around, but then there's the cable pull mismatch to be solved.

But I guess I'll first try either the long-drop IRD hanger or a hanger
mounted on the fork crown. I'm sure all this was figured out long ago by
most cyclists, but my first bike ever had V brakes and I never had
cantilevers before getting a cross bike for winter riding.

-as

David L. Johnson said:

I'll chime in about the safety concern. The stem is not the place to be
doing something like that if you can avoid it.

One solution that hasn't been suggested yet would be to replace the front
brake with a V-brake. Why not? It's a cheap, reliable option.

Because it's cyclocross and therefore has road bars and therefore V-brake
levers are damn near impossible to find, I'd guess. If the bike has Ergo
or STI levers right now, you can't go to V-brakes at all unless you
replace them with bar ends.

Jasper

jim beam said:

you could try a cheaper [thicker walled] stem and drill that - lots of
early mtb stems were drilled in this way and i don't recall seeing any
failure issues. the wcs is too light to do this though imo - and if
you're riding a crosscheck, i doubt weight is your primary concern so a
heavier stem should be no problem.

Early MTB stems that were drilled were usually aluminum
quill stems, where the extension is solid aluminum. Or they
were tubular steel, and there was a little tube welded in with
a stop for the cable. (Having that tube in there makes the
hole a less likely place for cracks to initiate.) Either way, the
substrate was more beefy than a current hollow aluminum
threadless stem. I agree that drilling a WCS would be bad, and
would shy away from drilling any modern hollow stem, actually.

The really trick way of solving this problem is to have a stem
built with a cable stop and pulley under the extension. Unfortunately
these were rare in quill and even rarer in threadless - I think
Salsa made some, they should bring them back. Looping the
housing over the stem and down to the hanger improves routing
but may not be enough for the housing to clear a modern fat stem,
since a threadless stem is so close to the hanger. A deep drop
headset hanger, or a fork crown mounted hanger, is probably the
best solution.

For a cable adjuster, try inline cable adjusters. Also, if you
(the OP) install Runkel levers (top-mount inline levers), get a
model with cable adjusters. These can really help. Cantilever
brakes without a cable adjuster in the system are a royal pain
in the ass to set up. In fact, installing an inline adjuster might
help you set up the brakes so that they work adequately with
the existing 45 degree noodle thingy.

Jasper Janssen said:

David L. Johnson said:

I'll chime in about the safety concern. The stem is not the place to be
doing something like that if you can avoid it.

One solution that hasn't been suggested yet would be to replace the front
brake with a V-brake. Why not? It's a cheap, reliable option.

Because it's cyclocross and therefore has road bars and therefore V-brake
levers are damn near impossible to find, I'd guess. If the bike has Ergo
or STI levers right now, you can't go to V-brakes at all unless you
replace them with bar ends.

Jasper

Or use a Travel Agent adaptor with your current levers.
Pro: brakes work the way they're supposed to.
Con: expensive.

Or use your v-brakes with your current levers, without an adaptor.
Pro: cheap.
Con: depends on your setup and who you ask; canti levers + v-brakes
have worked for me on two bikes, but it's a finicky combination (very
little pad/rim clearance, very little feel at the lever).

Or use mini v-brakes with your current levers.
Pro: works properly.
Con: expensive, setup is sort of finicky.

Or put your semi-horizonal drops to use and make that Surly a brakeless
fixed gear.
Pro: lose 4+ pounds.
Con: yikes.

Or get creative with the cable routing to make your current parts work.
IMO, the best option. Maybe take the bike to shop, see if they have
any ideas. Feel, power, cost, etc. of your current setup makes it
better than the stuff I listed above.

-Vee

Quoted message said:

Early MTB stems that were drilled were usually aluminum quill stems,
where the extension is solid aluminum. Or they were tubular steel, and
there was a little tube welded in with a stop for the cable. (Having
that tube in there makes the hole a less likely place for cracks to
initiate.) Either way, the substrate was more beefy than a current
hollow aluminum threadless stem. I agree that drilling a WCS would be
bad, and would shy away from drilling any modern hollow stem, actually.

I agree. The stems with brake cable holes were designed that way,
whatever they were made of.

Quoted message said:

The really trick way of solving this problem is to have a stem built
with a cable stop and pulley under the extension. Unfortunately these
were rare in quill and even rarer in threadless - I think Salsa made
some, they should bring them back.

Does Salsa still do custom stems? In that case they probably could.

Through-hole and roller stems were both common in the late 80s and early
90s, before V-brakes and front suspension -- but also before threadless
steerers. So you're unlikely to find one that meets your needs.

Quoted message said:

Looping the housing over the stem
and down to the hanger improves routing but may not be enough for the
housing to clear a modern fat stem, since a threadless stem is so close
to the hanger. A deep drop headset hanger, or a fork crown mounted
hanger, is probably the best solution.

I'd go with the latter solution, or a V-brake. Besides solving the
original problem, it eliminates having to readjust your brakes after
making a stem height adjustment.

You could also make a cable hangar out of an old brake stiffening arch
(remember those?), or a fork brace from an old suspension fork.

Matt O.

Antti Salonen said:

Another reason why I'd also like to switch away from the noodled hanger
is that currently I have no means of cable adjustment. I have a
Dia-compe hanger which has an adjuster, but I can't use it without
drilling the stem. V brakes would be another possibility because I
have a pair of Dia-compe V brake noodles with adjustment barrels lying
around, but then there's the cable pull mismatch to be solved.

On this page:
http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/parts/brakes/brakes.html

you will see:
- QBP Travel Agent w/ adjustment barrel, fixes the cable pull
mismatch as well as the adjustment need.

- Jagwire in-line cable adjusters

- an example of a steerer-tube cable hanger with a drop, that
costs a lot less than the IRD model. This one is just for 1"
steerers, not your X-Check's 1 1/8" model, but it serves as an
example of a part that you can find at nearly any shop for a
very cheap price.

I have used the Travel Agent with some Avid V-brakes on my CX bike
for a few years. It works great! I've never had any problem with
it, but I do recommend using a high quality, brand name (Avid,
Jagwire, etc.) brake cable to avoid (or delay, perhaps) cable fraying
in the sharp curve of the Travel Agent. I use a coated Avid cable
and after 3 years have not had any such problem--but I was warned
about it when thinking about the Travel Agent + V-brake solution
for my bike, so I am passing it on.

All of these items should be easy to find at any good bike store!
Best of luck.

--
Gregory S. Sutter "How do I read this file?"
[email hidden] "You uudecode it."
http://zer0.org/~gsutter/ "I I I decode it?"

Jasper Janssen said:

David L. Johnson said:

I'll chime in about the safety concern. The stem is not the place to be
doing something like that if you can avoid it.

One solution that hasn't been suggested yet would be to replace the front
brake with a V-brake. Why not? It's a cheap, reliable option.

Because it's cyclocross and therefore has road bars and therefore V-brake
levers are damn near impossible to find, I'd guess. If the bike has Ergo
or STI levers right now, you can't go to V-brakes at all unless you
replace them with bar ends.

Canti's aren't that much better, and you can always use a Travel Agent.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
_`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
(_)/ (_) |

Vee said:

Jasper Janssen said:

David L. Johnson said:

I'll chime in about the safety concern. The stem is not the place
to be doing something like that if you can avoid it.

One solution that hasn't been suggested yet would be to replace the
front brake with a V-brake. Why not? It's a cheap, reliable
option.

Because it's cyclocross and therefore has road bars and therefore
V-brake levers are damn near impossible to find, I'd guess. If the
bike has Ergo or STI levers right now, you can't go to V-brakes at
all unless you replace them with bar ends.

Jasper

Or use a Travel Agent adaptor with your current levers.
Pro: brakes work the way they're supposed to.
Con: expensive.

Or use your v-brakes with your current levers, without an adaptor.
Pro: cheap.
Con: depends on your setup and who you ask; canti levers + v-brakes
have worked for me on two bikes, but it's a finicky combination (very
little pad/rim clearance, very little feel at the lever).

Or use mini v-brakes with your current levers.
Pro: works properly.
Con: expensive, setup is sort of finicky.

This is by far the best alternative. The Tektro 927 Mini v-brake at $15.99
plus shipping is hardly "expensive."

Available here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00065186E/103-4553330-8616609?v=glance

How is setup finicky? They're v-brakes!

This fixes all cable routing issues, is cheap, looks trick, and also has
much easier pad adjustment compared to cantis. It's the obvious choice.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training