Dura-Ace Thick Flanges

Ron Abramson said:

I'm having trouble lacing a Dura-Ace 9-speed rear hub (FH-7700), drilled
28H, with DT Competition 14-15 (2.0 - 1.8 - 2.0) DB spokes.

The problem is mainly with the drive side spokes. A spoke inserted into
the NON-drive side JUST about fits. However, on the DRIVE side, the spoke
does not want to straighten out to go perpendicular to the axis of the
hub. It starts to bind at about 45 degrees. You can sort of force it
perpendicular, but then it won't turn in the hole, and doesn't really
seat. It seems destined to fail one way or the other if I were to tension
the wheel this way.

The issue seems to be the flange thickness, and not the size of the spoke
holes (though they feel pretty tight, too). I measure the drive side
flange at 3.55 mm thick. The non-drive flange is not as thick, and
measures out to about 3.1 mm. I read in past posts here that 3mm is
generally supposed to be the max for this measurement. (And yes, I did
try another batch of spokes (same result), and these spokes did fit fine
in another hub.)

Is this apparent extra flange thickness (and left-right difference in
flange thickness) normal for Dura-Ace hubs? Are you supposed to use spokes
with 15 ga. ends (or deeper elbows)? Are you supposed to just force the
14-15 spokes?

I've built rear wheels with both DA and Ultegra hubs, and like you, have
found that it's harder to install a 14 ga spoke into the DA flange. I recall
reading somewhere that DA hubs are designed for 15 ga spokes. I laced my DA
hub with 15 straight gauge on the right and 15-16-15 on the left (36
spokes).

Art Harris

Ron Abramson said:

I'm having trouble lacing a Dura-Ace 9-speed rear hub (FH-7700), drilled
28H, with DT Competition 14-15 (2.0 - 1.8 - 2.0) DB spokes.

The problem is mainly with the drive side spokes. A spoke inserted into
the NON-drive side JUST about fits. However, on the DRIVE side, the spoke
does not want to straighten out to go perpendicular to the axis of the
hub. It starts to bind at about 45 degrees. You can sort of force it
perpendicular, but then it won't turn in the hole, and doesn't really
seat. It seems destined to fail one way or the other if I were to tension
the wheel this way.

The issue seems to be the flange thickness, and not the size of the spoke
holes (though they feel pretty tight, too). I measure the drive side
flange at 3.55 mm thick. The non-drive flange is not as thick, and
measures out to about 3.1 mm. I read in past posts here that 3mm is
generally supposed to be the max for this measurement. (And yes, I did
try another batch of spokes (same result), and these spokes did fit fine
in another hub.)

Is this apparent extra flange thickness (and left-right difference in
flange thickness) normal for Dura-Ace hubs? Are you supposed to use spokes
with 15 ga. ends (or deeper elbows)? Are you supposed to just force the
14-15 spokes?

Any suggestions?

What you found in normal for 7700 DURA ACE rear hubs.
You can use Competition 14/15 DB spokes, but it takes a little extra work. The results are good as long as you properly spoke align, tension balance, and stress relieve.
I suggest you stay with the Competition 14/15 spokes especially on a 28 spoke right side.
I use a coating of teflon grease on the spoke threads before inserting them in the hub (and lacing them). In tight fitting hubs like DURA ACE a little grease deposits inside the spoke holes making the spoke turning and alignment go easier. When you twist the wheel during building, after inserting the first 14 (or 21) spokes, grabbing the cassette body with a rag helps. You will also need to carefully guide the alignment of each spoke so that you can complete the lacing of the spokes with their heads on the insides of the flanges. You carefully rotate each spoke in it's hole as you go around. You will need to make a few passes as this it an iterative process.

Ron Abramson said:

I'm having trouble lacing a Dura-Ace 9-speed rear hub (FH-7700), drilled
28H, with DT Competition 14-15 (2.0 - 1.8 - 2.0) DB spokes.

The problem is mainly with the drive side spokes. A spoke inserted into
the NON-drive side JUST about fits. However, on the DRIVE side, the spoke
does not want to straighten out to go perpendicular to the axis of the
hub. It starts to bind at about 45 degrees. You can sort of force it
perpendicular, but then it won't turn in the hole, and doesn't really
seat. It seems destined to fail one way or the other if I were to tension
the wheel this way.

The issue seems to be the flange thickness, and not the size of the spoke
holes (though they feel pretty tight, too). I measure the drive side
flange at 3.55 mm thick. The non-drive flange is not as thick, and
measures out to about 3.1 mm. I read in past posts here that 3mm is
generally supposed to be the max for this measurement. (And yes, I did
try another batch of spokes (same result), and these spokes did fit fine
in another hub.)

Is this apparent extra flange thickness (and left-right difference in
flange thickness) normal for Dura-Ace hubs? Are you supposed to use spokes
with 15 ga. ends (or deeper elbows)? Are you supposed to just force the
14-15 spokes?

Any suggestions?

use force i'm afraid. this hub is designed to be "snug". it gives you
higher milage before flange failure, so it's a trade off against build
convenience.

I built it as you suggested and it works great.

rany-<< I'm having trouble lacing a Dura-Ace 9-speed rear hub (FH-7700),
drilled
28H, with DT Competition 14-15 (2.0 - 1.8 - 2.0) DB spokes. >><BR><BR>
<< However, on the DRIVE side, the spoke
does not want to straighten out to go perpendicular to the axis of the
hub. It starts to bind at about 45 degrees. You can sort of force it
perpendicular, but then it won't turn in the hole, and doesn't really
seat. It seems destined to fail one way or the other if I were to tension
the wheel this way. >><BR><BR>

Normal, and after lacing an adding a wee bit of tension, use a spoke head
setter, like the one from DT or make one, to seat the nipple heads in the hub.

This situation is far superior to too big spoke holes.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

Normal, and after lacing an adding a wee bit of tension, use a spoke
head setter, like the one from DT or make one, to seat the nipple
heads in the hub.

I'm assuming that you mean "spoke heads?"

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Normal, and after lacing an adding a wee bit of tension, use a spoke
head setter, like the one from DT or make one, to seat the nipple
heads in the hub.

I'm assuming that you mean "spoke heads?"

Dear Phil,

When is a squid considered fully trained?

Just curious.

Nigel Grinter
Well-Spoken Wheels Inc.
www.wellspokenwheels.com

On 8 Nov 2004 18:46:38 -0800, [email hidden] (Nigel

Grinter) said:

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Normal, and after lacing an adding a wee bit of tension, use a spoke
head setter, like the one from DT or make one, to seat the nipple
heads in the hub.

I'm assuming that you mean "spoke heads?"

Dear Phil,

When is a squid considered fully trained?

Just curious.

Nigel Grinter
Well-Spoken Wheels Inc.
www.wellspokenwheels.com

Dear Nigel,

Here's the last part of the test:

http://tinyurl.com/67ggd

Carl Fogel

Phil-<< Normal, and after lacing an adding a wee bit of tension, use a spoke

Quoted message said:

head setter, like the one from DT or make one, to seat the nipple
heads in the hub.

I'm assuming that you mean "spoke heads?" >><BR><BR>

Opps, yep, the 'spoke heads'....

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"