East Meets West, Adding Pounds and Peril

Roger Zoul said:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/12/nyregion/nyregionspecial5/12diabetes.html?emc=eta1January 12, 2006Bad BloodEast Meets West, Adding Pounds and PerilBy MARC SANTORAMay Chen is slender and healthy, a lively little girl whose parents lefttheir rural Chinese village just a decade ago in search of a better life.But at age 9, still in pigtails, she is already coming face to face with theforces that many say are making America fat and diabetic.

------ sample 1 ------

In many Chinese families, it is difficult to get parents and
grandparents who were raised during the deadly famines and deprivations
of the 1950's to stop overfeeding their children. "Increased girth is an
indicator of wealth," said Dr. Thomas Tsang, medical director of the
Charles B. [censored] Community Health Center in Flushing.

But any extra weight is dangerous for Asians, research shows, because of
their susceptibility to Type 2 diabetes. For example, a 5-foot-9
Japanese man who weighs 156 pounds - and who may never develop the sort
of belly that is a warning sign for the disease - is twice as likely as
a white man that size to become diabetic.

------------------ sample 2 -----------

Selling Frosted Flakes and Fitness

At age 3, Henry Chen is learning his first words in English. "Mother"
was first, followed by "father." What came next, however, surprised his
aunt, Cindy Chen.

"McDonald's," she said. "It was one of his first words."

-----------------------------------------------

The article shows how the system really works when it isn't working in
the long term interests of the constituents.

"jbuch" <jbuch@CUT_HERE.revealed.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/12/nyregion/nyregionspecial5/12diabetes.html?emc=eta1January
12, 2006Bad BloodEast Meets West, Adding Pounds and PerilBy MARC
SANTORAMay Chen is slender and healthy, a lively little girl whose
parents lefttheir rural Chinese village just a decade ago in search of a
better life.But at age 9, still in pigtails, she is already coming face
to face with theforces that many say are making America fat and diabetic.

------ sample 1 ------

In many Chinese families, it is difficult to get parents and grandparents
who were raised during the deadly famines and deprivations of the 1950's
to stop overfeeding their children. "Increased girth is an indicator of
wealth," said Dr. Thomas Tsang, medical director of the Charles B. [censored]
Community Health Center in Flushing.

But any extra weight is dangerous for Asians, research shows, because of
their susceptibility to Type 2 diabetes. For example, a 5-foot-9 Japanese
man who weighs 156 pounds - and who may never develop the sort of belly
that is a warning sign for the disease - is twice as likely as a white man
that size to become diabetic.

------------------ sample 2 -----------

Selling Frosted Flakes and Fitness

At age 3, Henry Chen is learning his first words in English. "Mother" was
first, followed by "father." What came next, however, surprised his aunt,
Cindy Chen.

"McDonald's," she said. "It was one of his first words."

'For 14 years, ever since he moved to Flushing from Canton, China, he has
hewed to the same diet that his ancestors ate for hundreds, if not
thousands, of years. "Chicken, frog, duck, all very fresh - that is what we
like," said Mr. Li, a 40-year-old business consultant, as he steered a cart
through the Hong Kong Market on Main Street.'

So much for the vegetarian Asian diet. Bwahahaha!

"Joe the Aroma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

'For 14 years, ever since he moved to Flushing from Canton, China, he has
hewed to the same diet that his ancestors ate for hundreds, if not
thousands, of years. "Chicken, frog, duck, all very fresh - that is what
we like," said Mr. Li, a 40-year-old business consultant, as he steered a
cart through the Hong Kong Market on Main Street.'

So much for the vegetarian Asian diet. Bwahahaha!

Heh! Good catch.

HG

Hannah Gruen <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> "Joe the Aroma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:> news:[email hidden]...
:>
:>> 'For 14 years, ever since he moved to Flushing from Canton, China,
:>> he has hewed to the same diet that his ancestors ate for hundreds,
:>> if not thousands, of years. "Chicken, frog, duck, all very fresh -
:>> that is what we like," said Mr. Li, a 40-year-old business
:>> consultant, as he steered a cart through the Hong Kong Market on
:>> Main Street.'
:>>
:>> So much for the vegetarian Asian diet. Bwahahaha!
:>
:> Heh! Good catch.
:>

What about the rice 3x per day?

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hannah Gruen <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> "Joe the Aroma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:> news:[email hidden]...
:>
:>> 'For 14 years, ever since he moved to Flushing from Canton, China,
:>> he has hewed to the same diet that his ancestors ate for hundreds,
:>> if not thousands, of years. "Chicken, frog, duck, all very fresh -
:>> that is what we like," said Mr. Li, a 40-year-old business
:>> consultant, as he steered a cart through the Hong Kong Market on
:>> Main Street.'
:>>
:>> So much for the vegetarian Asian diet. Bwahahaha!
:>
:> Heh! Good catch.
:>

What about the rice 3x per day?

Doesn't make their diet vegetarian if they are loading up with "chicken,
frog, duck." Actually, it is true that the very poor in eastern Asia may eat
a near-vegetarian diet, simply because they cannot afford the "chicken,
frog, duck." But they are also eating a pretty low-calorie diet and getting,
as a rule, a lot of exercise. The fact that these underfed population groups
have lower incidence of certain diseases - cardiovascular, diabetes,
obesity - is made much of by the PITA-type groups. The favored vegan
inference is that it is the lack of animal-based food in the diets, rather
than the low caloric content and high activity levels, that keeps the Asian
rural poor relatively free of these diseases. They also tend to have their
own set of health issues, however, such as infectious diseases, various
types of malnutrition, etc.

HG

Quoted message said:

Hannah Gruen <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:> news:[email hidden]...
:>> Hannah Gruen <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>> :> "Joe the Aroma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:>> :> news:[email hidden]...
:>> :>
:>> :>> 'For 14 years, ever since he moved to Flushing from Canton,
:>> :>> China,
:>> :>> he has hewed to the same diet that his ancestors ate for
:>> :>> hundreds,
:>> :>> if not thousands, of years. "Chicken, frog, duck, all very
:>> :>> fresh - that is what we like," said Mr. Li, a 40-year-old
:>> :>> business
:>> :>> consultant, as he steered a cart through the Hong Kong Market on
:>> :>> Main Street.'
:>> :>>
:>> :>> So much for the vegetarian Asian diet. Bwahahaha!
:>> :>
:>> :> Heh! Good catch.
:>> :>
:>>
:>> What about the rice 3x per day?
:>
:> Doesn't make their diet vegetarian if they are loading up with
:> "chicken, frog, duck." Actually, it is true that the very poor in
:> eastern Asia may eat a near-vegetarian diet, simply because they
:> cannot afford the "chicken, frog, duck." But they are also eating a
:> pretty low-calorie diet and getting, as a rule, a lot of exercise.
:> The fact that these underfed population groups have lower incidence
:> of certain diseases - cardiovascular, diabetes, obesity - is made
:> much of by the PITA-type groups. The favored vegan inference is that
:> it is the lack of animal-based food in the diets, rather than the
:> low caloric content and high activity levels, that keeps the Asian
:> rural poor relatively free of these diseases. They also tend to have
:> their own set of health issues, however, such as infectious
:> diseases, various types of malnutrition, etc.

I'm not sure why anything would even think that Asians eat a vegetarian
diet. However, their diet is typically not thought of as low carb, due to
rice being their staple. So one question that always comes up [for me,
anyway] is why Asians on an eastern diet (as opposed to a western diet)
don't develop all of these so-called western diseases until they adopt a
more western diet (supposedly, anyway). It's not because they don't eat
carbs (ie, rice). AFAIK, it's not because they don't eat fat (the Asians I
know personally who try to maintain their eastern diets cook with plenty of
fat). I think it's primarily because they don't overeat. Perhaps they
don't eat as much rice as many westerners think. Just because one eats rice
3x per day doesn't mean one is eating an excessive amount of carbs (with
excessive depending on activity level). Also, I think they don't typically
drink soft drinks (under non-western influence) and certainly don't consume
products with HFCS as one would with the many convenence foods found in a
western diet. In any case, undereating will protect one from many
western-type diseases, so being poor probably helped them avoid the pitfalls
they are now dealing with.

Roger Zoul said:

Hannah Gruen <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:> news:[email hidden]...
:>> Hannah Gruen <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>> :> "Joe the Aroma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:>> :> news:[email hidden]...
:>> :>
:>> :>> 'For 14 years, ever since he moved to Flushing from Canton,
:>> :>> China,
:>> :>> he has hewed to the same diet that his ancestors ate for
:>> :>> hundreds,
:>> :>> if not thousands, of years. "Chicken, frog, duck, all very
:>> :>> fresh - that is what we like," said Mr. Li, a 40-year-old
:>> :>> business
:>> :>> consultant, as he steered a cart through the Hong Kong Market on
:>> :>> Main Street.'
:>> :>>
:>> :>> So much for the vegetarian Asian diet. Bwahahaha!
:>> :>
:>> :> Heh! Good catch.
:>> :>
:>>
:>> What about the rice 3x per day?
:>
:> Doesn't make their diet vegetarian if they are loading up with
:> "chicken, frog, duck." Actually, it is true that the very poor in
:> eastern Asia may eat a near-vegetarian diet, simply because they
:> cannot afford the "chicken, frog, duck." But they are also eating a
:> pretty low-calorie diet and getting, as a rule, a lot of exercise.
:> The fact that these underfed population groups have lower incidence
:> of certain diseases - cardiovascular, diabetes, obesity - is made
:> much of by the PITA-type groups. The favored vegan inference is that
:> it is the lack of animal-based food in the diets, rather than the
:> low caloric content and high activity levels, that keeps the Asian
:> rural poor relatively free of these diseases. They also tend to have
:> their own set of health issues, however, such as infectious
:> diseases, various types of malnutrition, etc.

I'm not sure why anything would even think that Asians eat a vegetarian
diet. However, their diet is typically not thought of as low carb, due to
rice being their staple. So one question that always comes up [for me,
anyway] is why Asians on an eastern diet (as opposed to a western diet)
don't develop all of these so-called western diseases until they adopt a
more western diet (supposedly, anyway). It's not because they don't eat
carbs (ie, rice). AFAIK, it's not because they don't eat fat (the Asians I
know personally who try to maintain their eastern diets cook with plenty of
fat). I think it's primarily because they don't overeat. Perhaps they
don't eat as much rice as many westerners think. Just because one eats rice
3x per day doesn't mean one is eating an excessive amount of carbs (with
excessive depending on activity level). Also, I think they don't typically
drink soft drinks (under non-western influence) and certainly don't consume
products with HFCS as one would with the many convenence foods found in a
western diet. In any case, undereating will protect one from many
western-type diseases, so being poor probably helped them avoid the pitfalls
they are now dealing with.

The eating less calories argument for the traditional Japanese diet is
laid out in a book called

"Japanese Women Don't Get Old or Fat: or secrets of my mother's Tokyo
kitchen";

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385339976/qid=1137278590/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-3800276-8693621?v=glance&s=books

From Publishers Weekly
It's well known that Japanese women have the lowest obesity rate in the
industrialized world (3%) and the highest life expectancy (85 years),
and that their cuisine is based on simplicity. Tokyo native Moriyama
puts a human face on this phenomenon, that of her mother, Chizuko, in
this well-organized, persuasive introduction to a non-Western everyday
cooking plan. Just as Moriyama reconstructed Chizuko's cooking practices
for herself and her coauthor husband, Doyle (Inside the Oval Office),
she shows readers the elements of Chizuko's 6'×12' Tokyo kitchen. She
details its pantry ingredients, including bonito (fish) flakes and
daikon (radish) and tools such as a rice cooker and wok. Most recipes
are based on at least one of the "seven pillars"—fish, vegetables, rice,
soy, noodles, tea, fruit—and are familiar and easy to make (Shrimp and
Vegetable Tempura, Teriyaki Fish, etc.). Cooking tips abound, but what
adds a French Women Don't Get Fat angle is the useful eating advice,
such as "Hara hachi bunme," or "Eat until you are 80 percent full." It's
a call for moderation that occurs throughout other cultures, and if it's
the Japanese version that speaks to readers, good for Moriyama.

"seven pillars"
— fish,
- vegetables,
- rice,
- soy,
- noodles,
- tea,
- fruit

Not exactly a vegetarian diet, but not a beefeater or porkeater diet either.

--
1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

"jbuch" <jbuch@CUT_HERE.revealed.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm not sure why anything would even think that Asians eat a vegetarian
diet. However, their diet is typically not thought of as low carb, due
to rice being their staple. So one question that always comes up [for
me, anyway] is why Asians on an eastern diet (as opposed to a western
diet) don't develop all of these so-called western diseases until they
adopt a more western diet (supposedly, anyway). It's not because they
don't eat carbs (ie, rice). AFAIK, it's not because they don't eat fat
(the Asians I know personally who try to maintain their eastern diets
cook with plenty of fat). I think it's primarily because they don't
overeat. Perhaps they don't eat as much rice as many westerners think.
Just because one eats rice 3x per day doesn't mean one is eating an
excessive amount of carbs (with excessive depending on activity level).
Also, I think they don't typically drink soft drinks (under non-western
influence) and certainly don't consume products with HFCS as one would
with the many convenence foods found in a western diet. In any case,
undereating will protect one from many western-type diseases, so being
poor probably helped them avoid the pitfalls they are now dealing with.

The eating less calories argument for the traditional Japanese diet is
laid out in a book called

"Japanese Women Don't Get Old or Fat: or secrets of my mother's Tokyo
kitchen";

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385339976/qid=1137278590/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-3800276-8693621?v=glance&s=books

From Publishers Weekly
It's well known that Japanese women have the lowest obesity rate in the
industrialized world (3%) and the highest life expectancy (85 years), and
that their cuisine is based on simplicity.

Quoted message said:

"seven pillars"
— fish,
- vegetables,
- rice,
- soy,
- noodles,
- tea,
- fruit

Not exactly a vegetarian diet, but not a beefeater or porkeater diet
either.

I've read about other Asian cultures, also, that there is an actual cultural
stigma against stuffing yourself, that it is considered more "polite" to
slightly undereat. That would correspond to the 80% recommendation here. And
just not overeating, keeping calories low, is regarded by some as sufficient
to stave off diabetes and many of the "degenerative diseases," as well as
obesity.

The vegan activists do make much of the alleged near-vegetarian nature of
rural Asian diets, citing that as evidence that animal foods cause all those
Western diseases. Which was what prompted the original chuckle.

Obviously the jury is still out on all this, but I think that we sometimes
overlook the benefit of cutting quantity of food/calories, as well as
tinkering with macronutrient percentages.

HG

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hannah Gruen <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:> news:[email hidden]...
:>> Hannah Gruen <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>> :> "Joe the Aroma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:>> :> news:[email hidden]...
:>> :>
:>> :>> 'For 14 years, ever since he moved to Flushing from Canton,
:>> :>> China,
:>> :>> he has hewed to the same diet that his ancestors ate for
:>> :>> hundreds,
:>> :>> if not thousands, of years. "Chicken, frog, duck, all very
:>> :>> fresh - that is what we like," said Mr. Li, a 40-year-old
:>> :>> business
:>> :>> consultant, as he steered a cart through the Hong Kong Market on
:>> :>> Main Street.'
:>> :>>
:>> :>> So much for the vegetarian Asian diet. Bwahahaha!
:>> :>
:>> :> Heh! Good catch.
:>> :>
:>>
:>> What about the rice 3x per day?
:>
:> Doesn't make their diet vegetarian if they are loading up with
:> "chicken, frog, duck." Actually, it is true that the very poor in
:> eastern Asia may eat a near-vegetarian diet, simply because they
:> cannot afford the "chicken, frog, duck." But they are also eating a
:> pretty low-calorie diet and getting, as a rule, a lot of exercise.
:> The fact that these underfed population groups have lower incidence
:> of certain diseases - cardiovascular, diabetes, obesity - is made
:> much of by the PITA-type groups. The favored vegan inference is that
:> it is the lack of animal-based food in the diets, rather than the
:> low caloric content and high activity levels, that keeps the Asian
:> rural poor relatively free of these diseases. They also tend to have
:> their own set of health issues, however, such as infectious
:> diseases, various types of malnutrition, etc.

I'm not sure why anything would even think that Asians eat a vegetarian
diet. However, their diet is typically not thought of as low carb, due to
rice being their staple. So one question that always comes up [for me,
anyway] is why Asians on an eastern diet (as opposed to a western diet)
don't develop all of these so-called western diseases until they adopt a
more western diet (supposedly, anyway). It's not because they don't eat
carbs (ie, rice). AFAIK, it's not because they don't eat fat (the Asians
I know personally who try to maintain their eastern diets cook with plenty
of fat). I think it's primarily because they don't overeat. Perhaps they
don't eat as much rice as many westerners think. Just because one eats
rice 3x per day doesn't mean one is eating an excessive amount of carbs
(with excessive depending on activity level). Also, I think they don't
typically drink soft drinks (under non-western influence) and certainly
don't consume products with HFCS as one would with the many convenence
foods found in a western diet. In any case, undereating will protect one
from many western-type diseases, so being poor probably helped them avoid
the pitfalls they are now dealing with.

I think what people are missing is that poverty was a food limiting factor
in many of these "high carb" nations. That and certain diseases were
underreported due to substandard medicine in that country.

Joe the Aroma said:

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hannah Gruen <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:> news:[email hidden]...
:>> Hannah Gruen <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>> :> "Joe the Aroma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:>> :> news:[email hidden]...
:>> :>
:>> :>> 'For 14 years, ever since he moved to Flushing from Canton,
:>> :>> China,
:>> :>> he has hewed to the same diet that his ancestors ate for
:>> :>> hundreds,
:>> :>> if not thousands, of years. "Chicken, frog, duck, all very
:>> :>> fresh - that is what we like," said Mr. Li, a 40-year-old
:>> :>> business
:>> :>> consultant, as he steered a cart through the Hong Kong Market on
:>> :>> Main Street.'
:>> :>>
:>> :>> So much for the vegetarian Asian diet. Bwahahaha!
:>> :>
:>> :> Heh! Good catch.
:>> :>
:>>
:>> What about the rice 3x per day?
:>
:> Doesn't make their diet vegetarian if they are loading up with
:> "chicken, frog, duck." Actually, it is true that the very poor in
:> eastern Asia may eat a near-vegetarian diet, simply because they
:> cannot afford the "chicken, frog, duck." But they are also eating a
:> pretty low-calorie diet and getting, as a rule, a lot of exercise.
:> The fact that these underfed population groups have lower incidence
:> of certain diseases - cardiovascular, diabetes, obesity - is made
:> much of by the PITA-type groups. The favored vegan inference is that
:> it is the lack of animal-based food in the diets, rather than the
:> low caloric content and high activity levels, that keeps the Asian
:> rural poor relatively free of these diseases. They also tend to have
:> their own set of health issues, however, such as infectious
:> diseases, various types of malnutrition, etc.

I'm not sure why anything would even think that Asians eat a vegetarian
diet. However, their diet is typically not thought of as low carb, due to
rice being their staple. So one question that always comes up [for me,
anyway] is why Asians on an eastern diet (as opposed to a western diet)
don't develop all of these so-called western diseases until they adopt a
more western diet (supposedly, anyway). It's not because they don't eat
carbs (ie, rice). AFAIK, it's not because they don't eat fat (the Asians
I know personally who try to maintain their eastern diets cook with plenty
of fat). I think it's primarily because they don't overeat. Perhaps they
don't eat as much rice as many westerners think. Just because one eats
rice 3x per day doesn't mean one is eating an excessive amount of carbs
(with excessive depending on activity level). Also, I think they don't
typically drink soft drinks (under non-western influence) and certainly
don't consume products with HFCS as one would with the many convenence
foods found in a western diet. In any case, undereating will protect one
from many western-type diseases, so being poor probably helped them avoid
the pitfalls they are now dealing with.

I think what people are missing is that poverty was a food limiting factor
in many of these "high carb" nations. That and certain diseases were
underreported due to substandard medicine in that country.

It has been said that the lack of adequate calories and protein lack
were responsible for the relatively small physical size (height) as well
as low weight - for those traditional Asian diets. Food limited
societies.

In the health issues, there have been claims of high infant mortality
rate which may mean that the infants with superior health traits were
the survivors.

No floods of asthmatic kids in the schools, and no excessive worries
about kids dying of peanut allergies.

--
1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)