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Easy Fast

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Road Cycling
Published
23 September 2007
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26 September 2007
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Marian
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  1. Remind me to never ever ever (and I do mean ever) do anything that
    stupid again.

    This is the second time in my life that I've skipped going to Yom
    Kippur services.

    Last year it was because I didn't know about the relatively nearby
    (ninety minutes by air) Guangzhou Chabad House.

    This year it was specifically because I did know about the relatively
    nearby Guangzhou Chabad House and was amazingly unimpressed.

    Last year I ended up breaking the fast two hours early with a
    chocolate bar from my refrigerator. It was the first time since I
    started the yearly fast that I didn't make it.

    This year I mostly kept the fast. There were certain things that I
    absolutely just had to have. Like the antibiotics for my ear
    infection. And I think I can be forgiven the menthol cough drops.
    While I am a freak who regularly enough has ear nose and throat
    infections such that I like menthol cough drops as a candy I think, in
    this case, they really counted as medicine. Besides which, it isn't
    as if seven cough drops over the course of 24 hours really counts as
    food.

    The bottle of water I was sipping on could be construed by the most
    observant of formal Orthodoxy as breaking the fast. I prefer to think
    of it as being a necessity for health reasons related to living in the
    tropics.

    The can of Red Bull Energy Drink was definitely a bending of the
    rules, a loss of will as it were. But I was about to take my place at
    the start line of the 2007 Hainan Province "Shimano Cup" Mountain Bike
    Race and there was an iced Red Bull available for every competitor. I
    chugged it.

    'Fast' and 'race' go together.
    'Fasting' and 'racing' do not.

    Funny language English.

    All in all I'm pretty impressed with my seventh place. There were
    more than twenty women. I was already back behind people who, under
    normal circumstances, I can quite easily beat. But, even if they
    shouldn't have been able to beat me, I shouldn't have been able to
    beat as many of the people I did beat.

    Not that long ago, when I was in Qinghai, I described oxygen
    deprivation and elevation sickness as "feeling sort of like really low
    blood sugar" with the exception that I'd never actually let my blood
    sugar get quite so low as to feel quite so lethargically unable to
    move through air suddenly thicker than water while I struggled in vain
    to open my eyes.

    And while I was a different sort of bad off than I was at Qinghai I
    can now say for certain that extremely low blood sugar really isn't
    all that different from oxygen deprivation and elevation sickness.

    I don't especially recommend either.

    I'd probably have done better with the racing if I hadn't done the
    additional loop to check out the course beforehand. I was on a
    borrowed mountain bike with a pair of borrowed sneakers and it seemed
    like a good idea at the time to do an extra loop ahead of time just to
    make sure everything fit alright.

    (As part of the lead up to the 2007 Tour of Hainan I am spending up to
    six days a week neglecting my real job in Sanya to be a translator and
    general English speaker for the Organizing Committee. I only brought
    the road bike, the road shoes, civilian clothes, and a pair of girly
    sandals with me to Haikou.)

    It was on the third and final loop of the race itself as the black
    spots danced in front of my vision and I really wasn't quite sure
    which one of them was the black clad girl I was trying to catch up
    with that I came to the conclusion that I really really shouldn't have
    done that. In retrospect I couldn't really decide if the 'that' in
    question was the first loop or if it was the 15km ride to the race and
    the race itself.

    Just past the finish line I stumbled off the bike, slumping low over
    the handlebars, wished my stomach had something in it for me to vomit
    out, and lied profusely to my friends as I said I was perfectly fine
    and there was nothing to worry about.

    Well there was nothing to worry about. I wasn't fine but my lack of
    fineness was my own damn fault and as long as I didn't faint which I
    probably wasn't going to do if I could just make the world stand still
    there wasn't going to be anything to worry about.

    Besides which, if I did faint that was what the nice ambulance men
    were there for.
    If it had come to that, would an IV glucose drip count as breaking the
    fast?

    Lift leg over top of bicycle.
    Succeed at not falling down.
    Walk.
    Walk.
    Walk.
    Sit.
    Stay.

    For a span of time that even with things to watch and people to talk
    to couldn't have really been well over three hours. The black spots
    went away but I was getting kind of loopy near the end. Lots of
    people offered me bananas - the Cyclists' Snack Food of Choice - and I
    always had to refuse and the explaining why I was looking pale and wan
    and listless and didn't want bananas seemed very confusing even when I
    was the one doing all the talking.

    Watching clouds with low blood sugar is really lots more interesting
    than listening to Kol Nidre. Not sure how religious an interesting
    experience it is but it was definitely interesting. If indeed there
    is a God then it is most certainly God who put into motion the forces
    that created the pretty clouds as well as the forces that led to the
    existence of the person watching the pretty clouds so it stands to
    reason that the experience must, on some level, have been religious
    but ... don't mind me, some of my best friends are missionaries and
    I've recently gotten into the bad habit of philosophical discussions
    on the nature of religion.

    At the very moment the sky was sufficiently dark, I broke my fast on a
    package of instant noodles grabbed at a stoplight from a friend of
    mine who had won a case of them in the beginners' relay. I didn't
    merely eat them or consume them so much as inhale them.

    Even the ice cream sundaes at Vacarro's Bakery in Baltimore's Little
    Italy that have been my family's Break Fast tradition for years now
    don't taste nearly as good as that package of instant noodles did.

    And despite what I've been told by my diabetic dad about recovery time
    from low blood sugar it was almost as near instant a reaction as the
    supplemental oxygen in Menyuan. And while the change wasn't quite as
    extreme of a feeling much better it suddenly became much easier to not
    merely focus my eyes but keep them focussed.

    I then had a kilo of oranges.

    I then had a large dinner.

    I then had dessert.

    And a late night snack.

    Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.

    -M

  2. <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>

    Quoted message said:

    Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.

    -M

    What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting, breaking
    the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?

    Phil H

  3. Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

    <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>

    Quoted message said:

    Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.

    Quoted message said:

    -M

    What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting, breaking
    the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?

    Racing while fasting.

    -M

  4. Marian said:
    Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

    <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    -M

    Quoted message said:

    What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting, breaking
    the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?

    Racing while fasting.

    -M

    Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
    glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
    Bonking badly is a real learning experience, isn't it?
    I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
    reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.
    Bill C

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

    <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>

    Quoted message said:

    Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.

    -M

    What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting, breaking
    the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?

    Phil H

    You can fast, or you can race, but don't mix them.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

  6. Marian said:
    Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

    <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>

    Quoted message said:

    Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.
    -M


    What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting, breaking
    the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?

    Racing while fasting.

    I once had the great fortune to train with Brian Temple (Commonwealth
    Games silver medallist, sprint 1970). One night after stomping round
    the training circuit with Big Brian "just hanging on" to my wheel, I
    thought I had the cycling game cracked. Only when he pulled up
    alongside, gave me a big grin and said "I knew I shouldn't have come out
    after giving a pint of blood at lunchtime"...

  7. "Marian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

    <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>

    Quoted message said:

    Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.

    Quoted message said:

    -M

    What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting,
    breaking
    the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?

    Racing while fasting.

    Racing while fasting makes absolutely no sense from a religious point of
    view as it's certainly as forbidden as eating on Yom Kippur. Now, if
    lightening were to have stricken you while you raced on your
    not-really-empty stomach, _that_ would have been something to write to
    the newsgroup about. 🙂

    Steve "married a shiksa" Freides

  8. Bill C said:


    Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
    glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.

    dumbass,

    the body doesn't work like that.

    Quoted message said:

    I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
    reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.

    dumbass,

    what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
    not the order in which you eat and exercise.

  9. On Sep 24, 9:28 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Bill C said:

    Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
    glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.

    dumbass,

    the body doesn't work like that.

    Quoted message said:

    I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
    reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.

    dumbass,

    what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
    not the order in which you eat and exercise.


    I have no idea why you, and you alone have declared a personal pissing
    match with me. This is antique news as sports medicine.

    http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/19991222/eating_fat_endurance

    Once again you are clueless when attacking me. You still insisting
    that the sun orbits the earth?
    Bill C

  10. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Steve Freides said:

    "Marian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

    <snip long interesting story of internal conflict>

    > Remind me to never (ever) do anything that stupid again.

    > -M

    What was the stupid part; fasting, bike racing after fasting,
    breaking
    the fast, or being a slave to religious dogma?

    Racing while fasting.

    Racing while fasting makes absolutely no sense from a religious point of
    view as it's certainly as forbidden as eating on Yom Kippur. Now, if
    lightening were to have stricken you while you raced on your
    not-really-empty stomach, _that_ would have been something to write to
    the newsgroup about. 🙂

    Well, fasting can lead to lightening (kidding, sorry!).

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    Faberge eggs are elegant but I prefer Faberge bacon.

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

  11. Bill C said:

    On Sep 24, 9:28 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

    wrote: On Sep 23 said:
    Quoted message said:

    Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
    glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.

    Quoted message said:

    dumbass,

    Quoted message said:

    the body doesn't work like that.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
    reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.

    Quoted message said:

    dumbass,

    Quoted message said:

    what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
    not the order in which you eat and exercise.

    I have no idea why you, and you alone have declared a personal pissing
    match with me. This is antique news as sports medicine.

    dumbass,

    because you're a dumbass and say retarded things.

    if a person is trying to lose weight it's the amount of calories
    burned that's important not the percentage of it that's fat.

    the article you posted doesn't back up your claim (that fasting
    increases the percentage of fat burned) whatsoever - but what does it
    matter if it leads to early fatigue - which is counterproductive ?

  12. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Bill C said:


    Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
    glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.

    dumbass,

    the body doesn't work like that.

    Quoted message said:

    I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
    reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.

    dumbass,

    what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
    not the order in which you eat and exercise.

    What matters about what....... weight loss, athletic performance? This
    thread is about fasting and racing and not about weight loss.

    Phil H

  13. Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sep 23, 9:29 pm, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
    glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.

    Quoted message said:

    dumbass,

    Quoted message said:

    the body doesn't work like that.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
    reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.

    Quoted message said:

    dumbass,

    Quoted message said:

    what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
    not the order in which you eat and exercise.

    What matters about what....... weight loss, athletic performance? This
    thread is about fasting and racing and not about weight loss.

    Phil H- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    Fasting and racing are a bad idea. Hard to dispute that. Amit has NO
    clue about physiology. DUH less food in, lower weight, but when you
    are trying to spare muscle it becomes a little more complicated.
    That's a little beyond his limited comprehension, or his blind spot.
    If I claimed round bowling balls were better than cubic he'd attack me
    on it.
    maybe he thinks losing hard earned muscle, because it weighs more
    than fat, is a great thing for an athlete but I don't know anyone else
    who does. The key is to get lean and reatin the muscle and strength.
    Whatever. I admit the earth is flat, and worship Amit!
    Bill C

  14. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Bill C said:

    On Sep 24, 9:28 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Bill C said:

    Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
    glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.

    dumbass,

    the body doesn't work like that.

    Quoted message said:

    I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
    reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.

    dumbass,

    what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
    not the order in which you eat and exercise.


    I have no idea why you, and you alone have declared a personal pissing
    match with me. This is antique news as sports medicine.

    http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/19991222/eating_fat_endurance

    Once again you are clueless when attacking me. You still insisting
    that the sun orbits the earth?
    Bill C

    Bill:

    Holy [censored], did you read that synopsis?!!

    The "high-fat" meal was a "90% fat meal" which included an injection of
    heparin!

    That's some weeeeeird science.

    Oh, for the rest of you, the high-fat meal contributed to an increase in
    endurance in a 90-100 minute work-to-exhaustion test, versus a control
    meal of 70% carbs.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

  15. Marian said:

    Remind me to never ever ever (and I do mean ever) do anything that
    stupid again. ....
    It was on the third and final loop of the race itself as the black
    spots danced in front of my vision and I really wasn't quite sure
    which one of them was the black clad girl I was trying to catch up
    with that I came to the conclusion that I really really shouldn't have
    done that. In retrospect I couldn't really decide if the 'that' in
    question was the first loop or if it was the 15km ride to the race and
    the race itself.

    Just past the finish line I stumbled off the bike, slumping low over
    the handlebars, wished my stomach had something in it for me to vomit
    out, and lied profusely to my friends as I said I was perfectly fine
    and there was nothing to worry about.

    Well there was nothing to worry about. I wasn't fine but my lack of
    fineness was my own damn fault and as long as I didn't faint which I
    probably wasn't going to do if I could just make the world stand still
    there wasn't going to be anything to worry about.

    Besides which, if I did faint that was what the nice ambulance men
    were there for.
    If it had come to that, would an IV glucose drip count as breaking the
    fast?

    Lift leg over top of bicycle.
    Succeed at not falling down.
    Walk.
    Walk.
    Walk.
    Sit.
    Stay.

    For a span of time that even with things to watch and people to talk
    to couldn't have really been well over three hours. The black spots
    went away but I was getting kind of loopy near the end. Lots of
    people offered me bananas - the Cyclists' Snack Food of Choice - and I
    always had to refuse and the explaining why I was looking pale and wan
    and listless and didn't want bananas seemed very confusing even when I
    was the one doing all the talking.

    Nudnik,

    It is considered improper (even sinful) to fast if it
    endangers one's life. One might regard it as egotistical,
    putting one's own virtue or adherence to the supposed
    law on a pedestal. It is unlikely that your life was
    in danger, but nevertheless, having chosen to race
    on Yom Kippur (And what's wrong with that, says the
    dissenter? Fasting is intended as a form of abstention
    to focus the mind, and if bike racers understand three
    things, they are hunger, focus, and a drop of masochism) ...

    Anyway, having already raced on Yom Kippur, refusing
    food despite a bad case of the bonk is endangering
    oneself and practicing a hollow virtue. Better you
    should take the banana offered by your friends then
    your friends should worry as you are loaded into an
    ambulance with a glucose IV drip.

    The impulse to continue with an observance in the face
    of one's health or sense is universal. The story is
    told of the 19th century Rabbi Salanter of Vilna that
    when a cholera epidemic ravaged the city during Yom Kippur,
    he not only urged the citizens to eat, but actually stood
    in the synagogue on the bimah, produced a piece of
    bread and blessed and ate it in front of the
    congregation.

    So race, eat, feel guilty afterward. It's the Jewish
    tradition.

    Ben
    RBR Halakhic Authority

  16. On Sep 25, 2:03 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Marian said:

    Remind me to never ever ever (and I do mean ever) do anything that
    stupid again. ....
    It was on the third and final loop of the race itself as the black
    spots danced in front of my vision and I really wasn't quite sure
    which one of them was the black clad girl I was trying to catch up
    with that I came to the conclusion that I really really shouldn't have
    done that. In retrospect I couldn't really decide if the 'that' in
    question was the first loop or if it was the 15km ride to the race and
    the race itself.

    Quoted message said:

    Just past the finish line I stumbled off the bike, slumping low over
    the handlebars, wished my stomach had something in it for me to vomit
    out, and lied profusely to my friends as I said I was perfectly fine
    and there was nothing to worry about.

    Quoted message said:

    Well there was nothing to worry about. I wasn't fine but my lack of
    fineness was my own damn fault and as long as I didn't faint which I
    probably wasn't going to do if I could just make the world stand still
    there wasn't going to be anything to worry about.

    Quoted message said:

    Besides which, if I did faint that was what the nice ambulance men
    were there for.
    If it had come to that, would an IV glucose drip count as breaking the
    fast?

    Quoted message said:

    Lift leg over top of bicycle.
    Succeed at not falling down.
    Walk.
    Walk.
    Walk.
    Sit.
    Stay.

    Quoted message said:

    For a span of time that even with things to watch and people to talk
    to couldn't have really been well over three hours. The black spots
    went away but I was getting kind of loopy near the end. Lots of
    people offered me bananas - the Cyclists' Snack Food of Choice - and I
    always had to refuse and the explaining why I was looking pale and wan
    and listless and didn't want bananas seemed very confusing even when I
    was the one doing all the talking.

    Nudnik,

    It is considered improper (even sinful) to fast if it
    endangers one's life. One might regard it as egotistical,
    putting one's own virtue or adherence to the supposed
    law on a pedestal. It is unlikely that your life was
    in danger, but nevertheless, having chosen to race
    on Yom Kippur (And what's wrong with that, says the
    dissenter? Fasting is intended as a form of abstention
    to focus the mind, and if bike racers understand three
    things, they are hunger, focus, and a drop of masochism) ...

    I've never found the fast to especially focus my mind though I find
    that post-fast reflection on why in the heck did I do that does make
    me think about a lot of things.

    Got to say though that racing on Yom Kippur was much easier (in
    certain respects) than racing on Passover. Try explaining to your
    friends that you can't have beer at the post-race dinner, or the post-
    race party, or the follow up party held three days later.

    Quoted message said:

    Anyway, having already raced on Yom Kippur, refusing
    food despite a bad case of the bonk is endangering
    oneself and practicing a hollow virtue. Better you
    should take the banana offered by your friends then
    your friends should worry as you are loaded into an
    ambulance with a glucose IV drip.

    Being as I was already loopy from bonking I was, quite probably, too
    loopy from bonking to have thought that out completely. Mostly I was
    thinking, I'm not going to faint I'm not going to faint I'm not going
    to faint mixed with if it gets any worse I will eat and if it gets
    worse too quickly for me to notice and do something about there are
    some nice doctor people over there.

    I only felt really really bad at the end of the very last loop and
    right after I crossed the finish line. I've had friends who've pushed
    hard enough either in training or racing that they've thrown up
    shortly after getting off the bike but I've never been that nauseous
    before and even though I knew that the nausea was related to the lack
    of food and could probably be fixed by adding food to the equation the
    act of not wanting to eat (at least during the worst of the
    lightheadedness) was more than hollow virtue. It was also really -
    not- wanting to eat.

    As for the offering of food - They'd've been offering me food whether
    I was pale and listless or whether or not I had food in front of me.
    The offering of food to fellow cyclists is like the sniffing of butts
    for dogs.

    Quoted message said:

    The impulse to continue with an observance in the face
    of one's health or sense is universal. The story is
    told of the 19th century Rabbi Salanter of Vilna that
    when a cholera epidemic ravaged the city during Yom Kippur,
    he not only urged the citizens to eat, but actually stood
    in the synagogue on the bimah, produced a piece of
    bread and blessed and ate it in front of the
    congregation.

    Still feels wrong.

    Quoted message said:

    So race, eat, feel guilty afterward. It's the Jewish
    tradition.

    🙂

    -M

  17. Quoted message said:

    Ben
    RBR Halakhic Authority

    Dumbass,
    Is andoulette kosher ?

  18. Donald Munro said:

    Is andoulette kosher ?

    Dumblexic,

    It's "andouillette", and no.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andouillette

    --
    E. Dronkert

  19. Ryan Cousineau said:


    Bill:

    Holy [censored], did you read that synopsis?!!

    The "high-fat" meal was a "90% fat meal" which included an injection of
    heparin!

    That's some weeeeeird science.

    Oh, for the rest of you, the high-fat meal contributed to an increase in
    endurance in a 90-100 minute work-to-exhaustion test, versus a control
    meal of 70% carbs.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden]://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -


    This was the first study that I'd seen specifically on aerobic/
    endurance exercise. I'm familiar with this stuff from bodybuilding,
    where losing fat while retaining muscle is critical before contests.
    This has been a big topic of research for a long time in that world.
    The key there is what level of intensity of cardio causes the most
    calorie loss using the highest percentage of fat for fuel, and how to
    get it.
    The high fat diet stuff that morphed into the Atkins Diet came out of
    bb from back in the late 70s early 80s too. That's one I never bought
    into. It killed my energy levels and I always had trouble with my
    stomach. I think my ratios of protein-carbs-fat were pretty typical
    and they cycled but were generally:
    maintainence: 35% protein - 45% carbs - 20% fat
    Power cycle: 45% protein - 40% carbs - 15% fat Your doing no cardio
    here.
    cutting/pre contest: 35/40% protein - 50/55% carbs - under 10% fats.
    several low - moderate intensity aerobic/cardio sessions along with
    lower weights/higher reps/no rest gym work. For me it was about an
    hour ride in the morning before breakfast. Gym at lunch time. Ride
    again right about 5:30 for another hour or so. I'd eat between four
    and six small meals with up to like 25grams of protein each time
    shifting the carb/protein ratio over the day from high carbs in the AM
    to low carb/high protein before bed.
    That was pretty typical for just about everyone I knew except some
    people would split the gym work and do two sessions in the gym and
    maybe cut the second cardio.
    Sorry for the worse than usual typing(didn't think that was
    possible). On the third new keyboard this week and they all suck.
    Bill C

  20. Phil Holman' piholmanc@yourservice said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sep 23, 9:29 pm, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Look at it this way. It causes your body to deplete what little
    glycogen you have quickly and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.

    Quoted message said:

    dumbass,

    Quoted message said:

    the body doesn't work like that.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
    reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy.

    Quoted message said:

    dumbass,

    Quoted message said:

    what matters is whether you burn more or eat more calories over time
    not the order in which you eat and exercise.

    What matters about what....... weight loss, athletic performance? This
    thread is about fasting and racing and not about weight loss.

    dumbass,

    my response was to bill's post, how do you interpret this ?

    "It causes your body to deplete what little glycogen you have quickly
    and then burn fat. Brutal, but effective.
    ....
    I almost always ride, or do cardio before breakfast for exactly the
    reason that it increases the percentage of fat burned for energy."

    it sounds to me like bill is giving weight loss advice.

    but depriving a body of sugar during exercise isn't going to make it
    burn fat.

    the ratio of fat/sugar burned is mostly dependent on relative
    intensity.

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