Eating plan for half marathon

TJ said:

I see a lot of posts with suggestions for training plans for half
and full marathons but can anyone suggest any sites to reasonable
eating plans to follow while following the training plan

There's no single special diet tied to half marathon training.

Couple generalities: those miles of training will burn calories (very
roughly a hundred calories a mile), so you'll either eat more to keep
up or you'll lose weight. Most dedicated runners tend to eat a higher
proportion of carbs and less fat than the general population but
there's always exceptions.

What are you looking for? Are you happy with your diet now? Do you
count calories or follow your hunger, do you have a strict diet now or
eat what you want? Presumably you can eat the same foods and the same
ways, just a little more of 'em, unless you've got a real reason to
change.

"TJ" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I see a lot of posts with suggestions for training plans for half and full
marathons but can anyone suggest any sites to reasonable eating plans to
follow while following the training plan
appeciate any info

CP's advice is good, as usual.

But just in case you are really asking "Will I run faster or train harder on
a special super-secret diet of some sort?", the answer is maybe, a bit.
It's more a matter of when you eat what, rather than the total quantity of
the various food groups. The lion's share of your performance is due to
diligent training and maintaining a lean weight, not drinking a bee-pollen
smoothie with 42 vitamin pills ground up in the mix.

I've run 60-95 miles/week for 27 years, and eat a fairly normal American
diet: probably too many sweets, and I like fatty mexican food more than I
should. I've also been a vegitarian in the distant past (that lowered my
Cholesterol to 120) but my running went into the tank until I resumed eating
animals.

If you eat what you crave, you'll probably be getting a bit more carbs than
normal, but don't skimp on protein or fat. You need it all. Some research
even suggests that "fat loading" before a race is beneficial, so don't go
crazy trying to eliminate fat. If you eat too much protein, you can throw
your self into ketosis and put stress on your kidneys.

I don't have double-blind studies to back all of this up, but this has
worked for me:

1) I eat something carbo-sweet right after a workout: 2-500 calories,
depending on distance covered (8 to 20 miles). There's a small window of
time after exercise (30-60 minutes) when carbs consumed go more directly to
replenish tired muscles.

2) I eat a large carb-laden meal (chinese or Italian usually) the night
before a long run or race. I've found that stuffing myself a bit doesn't
hurt in this case.

3) I eat 3 small meals during the day, plus dinner: Usually at 7am, 10am,
2:30pm (post run), and 7pm.

4) Before a race, I eat only 100/calories per hour before the start. Eg, at
6am for a 9am race, I never eat more than 300 calories.

-- Dan

Dan said:

I like fatty mexican food more than I should

One thing about running doubles: it changes your diet if you've got
anything shy of a totally cast-iron stomach. When I've trained that
way, which I've long since given up on for this fall, I've ended up
eating a lot more cautiously so that none of the first N-1 meals of
the day mess up the second run. And then even the last meal is gonna
be followed by a morning run before *too* many more hours go by, which
rules out frequent Sichuan food if nothing else.

"D Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"TJ" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I see a lot of posts with suggestions for training plans for half and
full marathons but can anyone suggest any sites to reasonable eating
plans to follow while following the training plan
appeciate any info

CP's advice is good, as usual.

And your additions are also right on. I know the term balance is vague
but that's how I approach eating. If I had to guess I average close to
60/20/20 carbs/fat/protein. It's not that I alter my eating, it's
natural for me. Take a look at
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html I think the
Harvard School of Public Health is light years ahead of the government
pyramid. Fortunately for me all the good stuff at the bottom like
grains, fruits, vegetables are the foods that I really enjoy.

Quoted message said:

But just in case you are really asking "Will I run faster or train
harder on a special super-secret diet of some sort?", the answer is
maybe, a bit. It's more a matter of when you eat what, rather than the
total quantity of the various food groups. The lion's share of your
performance is due to diligent training and maintaining a lean weight,
not drinking a bee-pollen smoothie with 42 vitamin pills ground up in
the mix.

I've run 60-95 miles/week for 27 years, and eat a fairly normal
American diet: probably too many sweets, and I like fatty mexican
food more than I should. I've also been a vegitarian in the distant
past (that lowered my Cholesterol to 120) but my running went into the
tank until I resumed eating animals.

I often wonder how Jurek runs at his level as a vegan.

Quoted message said:

If you eat what you crave, you'll probably be getting a bit more carbs
than normal, but don't skimp on protein or fat. You need it all.
Some research even suggests that "fat loading" before a race is
beneficial, so don't go crazy trying to eliminate fat. If you eat too
much protein, you can throw your self into ketosis and put stress on
your kidneys.

I don't have double-blind studies to back all of this up, but this has
worked for me:

1) I eat something carbo-sweet right after a workout: 2-500
calories, depending on distance covered (8 to 20 miles). There's a
small window of time after exercise (30-60 minutes) when carbs
consumed go more directly to replenish tired muscles.

2) I eat a large carb-laden meal (chinese or Italian usually) the
night before a long run or race. I've found that stuffing myself a
bit doesn't hurt in this case.

I like a fair amount of fat also before a race. If I was to have a pasta
meal it would be with olive oil rather then a red sauce. I never
approach that meal with any leanings. I let my internnal craves dictate
my meal. Sometime it's fish, rice and a veg but salad with oil. Other
times it's steak and potato. Lately me pre race meals have been meat.
With an early race start 5-8 am, I like to eat early the night before
say 5:30 to 6 pm. To maximize the digestion.

Quoted message said:

3) I eat 3 small meals during the day, plus dinner: Usually at 7am,
10am, 2:30pm (post run), and 7pm.

4) Before a race, I eat only 100/calories per hour before the start.
Eg, at 6am for a 9am race, I never eat more than 300 calories.

Maybe this is why you are faster than me. 🙂 I eat an early dinner so
I can have a big breakfast. Between the two meals I hardly have to eat
during a 50k. I can get by nicely with a few handfuls of fig Newtons.
At Vermont I hit a aid station that had 5 different kinds of homemade
cookies. Some even with carrots. I grabbed a few of each and nibbled for
the next few miles. Heavenly. Please note this is for trail running
which allows liberal bathroom breaks. This may not be a good approach
for a marathon since port-o-crapers are often hard to find plus the
taboo of taking the time for #1, much less #2.

And I consider beer a fine carbo recovery drink. 😉

-Doug

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"D Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"TJ" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I see a lot of posts with suggestions for training plans for half and
full marathons but can anyone suggest any sites to reasonable eating
plans to follow while following the training plan
appeciate any info

CP's advice is good, as usual.

And your additions are also right on. I know the term balance is vague
but that's how I approach eating. If I had to guess I average close to
60/20/20 carbs/fat/protein. It's not that I alter my eating, it's natural
for me. Take a look at
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html I think the
Harvard School of Public Health is light years ahead of the government
pyramid. Fortunately for me all the good stuff at the bottom like grains,
fruits, vegetables are the foods that I really enjoy.

Quoted message said:

But just in case you are really asking "Will I run faster or train harder
on a special super-secret diet of some sort?", the answer is maybe, a
bit. It's more a matter of when you eat what, rather than the total
quantity of the various food groups. The lion's share of your
performance is due to diligent training and maintaining a lean weight,
not drinking a bee-pollen smoothie with 42 vitamin pills ground up in the
mix.

I've run 60-95 miles/week for 27 years, and eat a fairly normal American
diet: probably too many sweets, and I like fatty mexican food more than
I should. I've also been a vegitarian in the distant past (that lowered
my Cholesterol to 120) but my running went into the tank until I resumed
eating animals.

I often wonder how Jurek runs at his level as a vegan.

Quoted message said:

If you eat what you crave, you'll probably be getting a bit more carbs
than normal, but don't skimp on protein or fat. You need it all. Some
research even suggests that "fat loading" before a race is beneficial, so
don't go crazy trying to eliminate fat. If you eat too much protein, you
can throw your self into ketosis and put stress on your kidneys.

I don't have double-blind studies to back all of this up, but this has
worked for me:

1) I eat something carbo-sweet right after a workout: 2-500 calories,
depending on distance covered (8 to 20 miles). There's a small window of
time after exercise (30-60 minutes) when carbs consumed go more directly
to replenish tired muscles.

2) I eat a large carb-laden meal (chinese or Italian usually) the night
before a long run or race. I've found that stuffing myself a bit doesn't
hurt in this case.

I like a fair amount of fat also before a race. If I was to have a pasta
meal it would be with olive oil rather then a red sauce. I never approach
that meal with any leanings. I let my internnal craves dictate my meal.
Sometime it's fish, rice and a veg but salad with oil. Other times it's
steak and potato. Lately me pre race meals have been meat. With an early
race start 5-8 am, I like to eat early the night before say 5:30 to 6 pm.
To maximize the digestion.

Quoted message said:

3) I eat 3 small meals during the day, plus dinner: Usually at 7am,
10am, 2:30pm (post run), and 7pm.

4) Before a race, I eat only 100/calories per hour before the start. Eg,
at 6am for a 9am race, I never eat more than 300 calories.

Maybe this is why you are faster than me. 🙂 I eat an early dinner so I
can have a big breakfast. Between the two meals I hardly have to eat
during a 50k. I can get by nicely with a few handfuls of fig Newtons. At
Vermont I hit a aid station that had 5 different kinds of homemade
cookies. Some even with carrots. I grabbed a few of each and nibbled for
the next few miles. Heavenly. Please note this is for trail running which
allows liberal bathroom breaks. This may not be a good approach for a
marathon since port-o-crapers are often hard to find plus the taboo of
taking the time for #1, much less #2.

And I consider beer a fine carbo recovery drink. 😉

-Doug

Hi
For some reason CP's post is not showing up on my newsreader, ive checked
this group through google and have been able to see your post.

To be honest its no special marathon im training for, its my own doing, ive
planned out a very reasonable marathon distance route that im planning to do
early April.
Heres where i stand at the moment, im 248lbs i run 3 miles a day 5 days a
week (8 months a go i was doing 8 mile runs 3 times a week in about 1:20),
usually around 9:25 minute mile. My goal at the minute is loosing some of
the weight, however i am the moment feeling real low on energy.

Unfortunatly i dont like any for of Veg or Salad!, i eat a lot of tuna,
chicken, eggs, cottage chees, bacon, toast and a few other very bland
thing,lol i dont drink hot drins and usually drinklots of water and diet
soda. My weight loss is doing fine, its slowly going the right way. Id like
to increase my milage a litle each week and am aiming for 10% a week, i
just feel at the moment during my runs that i have zero energy, i also feel
this a lot during the day aswell. I'd like to get down to 225lb and then
start to eat "differetly" and then really start to train for the marathon
ive planned. Im very goal orientated and once i have a plan i usually stick
to it and achieve my goals.

appreciate all the comments

thnaks
TJ

TJ said:

For some reason CP's post is not showing up on my newsreader,

Oh man, now everyone will want to use your newsreader, with its built-
in smart killfile functionality!

Quoted message said:

Im very goal orientated

So set a goal of cultivating a taste for some veggies and fruit.

C'mom, if I could follow through on a New Year's resolution a couple
years ago to cultivate a taste for durian (happy to report: mission
accomplished), you can work on peas, cauliflower, spinach, and red
peppers. It's adult food, and my nutritional layman's mind boggles at
the thought of trying to be anything approaching "healthy" without
eating lots of plants. Though I guess some populations like Tuvan and
Mongolian nomads manage. (OTOH my father, of Swedish descent, never
cared for veggies outside of fries and ketchup, and he had a heart
attack and octuple bypass surgery in Sep 01.)

Too bad you say you only enjoy bland foods or I'd suggest you pick up
an Indian cookbook. There's some folks who like veggies and flavors!

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

So set a goal of cultivating a taste for some veggies and fruit.

Quoted message said:

C'mom, if I could follow through on a New Year's resolution a couple
years ago to cultivate a taste for durian (happy to report: mission
accomplished), you can work on peas, cauliflower, spinach, and red
peppers.

In the interests of having a diverse array of opinions, I don't know if you
need to become a vegaholic in order to lose weight, especially when
running....My experience is an order of magnitude less difficult than TJ,
though. I only gained 34 lbs when I stopped running briefly when I was
about 40.

I lost it eating the same kind of food, just a tad less, and keeping the
running up. Before easy or non-running days, I also ate a light dinner,
about 60% of normal.

I suspect that TJ is going overboard with protein and getting too little fat
and that is a recipe for feeling lethargic and awful.

I'd suggest a completely ordinary diet, along the lines of 30% fat, 20%
protein, and 40+% carbs (the remainder beer and alcohol :-). That's what a
healthy aerobic body needs. Maybe he can feel good at less than 30% fat,
but I'd guess that would impair his running.

The key, TJ, is just to eat a bit less than usual especially at dinner, but
don't skip meals, and don't have pseudo meals like a few leaves of lettuce
with decorative carrot shreds and 4 raisins -- eat a normal, 20-30% smaller
meal.

The night before a running day, eat carb-intensive, but don't overdo the
calories. And after your run, eat a couple hundred cals of carbs, like a
cookie or two.

I admittedly don't get a lot of fruit and veggies, but I do take a vitamin
(Purity Perfect Multi-Greens) which has extracts of lots of "the best"
veggies and fruits in it.

-- Dan

Dan said:

I don't know if you need to become a vegaholic in order to lose
weight, especially when running

Oh I'm quite sure you don't to lose weight. A few years ago several
of my coworkers rode the Fatkins Diet wave, and I watched them drop a
few pounds on a diet apparently consisting not quite exclusively of
chicken wings, hamburger patties, and mixed nuts.

I'm just expressing, in total layman common sense knee-jerk mode here,
"that can't be healthy".

Quoted message said:

I admittedly don't get a lot of fruit and veggies, but I do take a
vitamin (Purity Perfect Multi-Greens) which has extracts of lots of
"the best" veggies and fruits in it.

To each his own; but damn, plants are mighty tasty. Just like
animals. And booze. :-)

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I admittedly don't get a lot of fruit and veggies, but I do take a
vitamin (Purity Perfect Multi-Greens) which has extracts of lots of
"the best" veggies and fruits in it.

To each his own; but damn, plants are mighty tasty. Just like
animals. And booze. :-)

Ok, ok, I admit I love brussels sprouts, a good spinach salad, and avocados,
and tangy plums and peaches and apricots. I just don't eat as much as I
"should".

-- "Dan"

"TJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi
For some reason CP's post is not showing up on my newsreader, ive
checked this group through google and have been able to see your post.

Your newsreader has a careful eye. 🙂

Quoted message said:

Unfortunatly i dont like any for of Veg or Salad!,

Not to be harsh, but not eating Veggies may be a reason for your weight
problems in general. I don't see grains listed either, so your are
really swimming upstream facing downstream.

Quoted message said:

i eat a lot of tuna, chicken, eggs, cottage chees, bacon, toast and a
few other very bland thing,lol i dont drink hot drins and usually
drinklots of water and diet soda.

I see high fat, high protein. You are doing a low carb diet with your
poor eating habits. I don't want to start an Atkins low carb war, but
low carbs and physical activity are oil and water. You can lose weight
on LC but you lose energy. IMHO your low carb diet is sapping your
energy plus it's not balanced.

Quoted message said:

My weight loss is doing fine, its slowly going the right way. Id like
to increase my milage a litle each week and am aiming for 10% a week,
i just feel at the moment during my runs that i have zero energy,

IMHO you low carb diet is sapping your energy.

Quoted message said:

appreciate all the comments

I don't under stand the general statement that you don't like any form
of vegetables. The variety of flavors and all the ways of preparing, all
taste aweful? Did your parents make you eat vegeatbles as a kid? 🙂

Anyway, if you don't get some more complex carbs in your diet, your
running energy will remain low. In general, if you don't eat a better
diet all the time, i don't see an end in sight.

-Doug

"D Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I admittedly don't get a lot of fruit and veggies, but I do take a
vitamin (Purity Perfect Multi-Greens) which has extracts of lots of
"the best" veggies and fruits in it.

To each his own; but damn, plants are mighty tasty. Just like
animals. And booze. :-)

Ok, ok, I admit I love brussels sprouts, a good spinach salad, and
avocados, and tangy plums and peaches and apricots. I just don't eat
as much as I "should".

And you live in California where every vegetable is always in season. 🙂
Unless you guys consider grains vegetables, he is also missing this
entire food group. Even Fatkins would spank him. If he just started this
diet he maybe in ketosis.

I just love a big bowl of black bean or lentil soup and a amber beer for
dinner. I don't like a hoppy brew with soup. 😉

_doug

TJ said:

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"D Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"TJ" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>I see a lot of posts with suggestions for training plans for half and
>full marathons but can anyone suggest any sites to reasonable eating
>plans to follow while following the training plan
> appeciate any info

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

CP's advice is good, as usual.

Quoted message said:

And your additions are also right on. I know the term balance is vague
but that's how I approach eating. If I had to guess I average close to
60/20/20 carbs/fat/protein. It's not that I alter my eating, it's natural
for me. Take a look at
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html I think the
Harvard School of Public Health is light years ahead of the government
pyramid. Fortunately for me all the good stuff at the bottom like grains,
fruits, vegetables are the foods that I really enjoy.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But just in case you are really asking "Will I run faster or train harder
on a special super-secret diet of some sort?", the answer is maybe, a
bit. It's more a matter of when you eat what, rather than the total
quantity of the various food groups. The lion's share of your
performance is due to diligent training and maintaining a lean weight,
not drinking a bee-pollen smoothie with 42 vitamin pills ground up in the
mix.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've run 60-95 miles/week for 27 years, and eat a fairly normal American
diet: probably too many sweets, and I like fatty mexican food more than
I should. I've also been a vegitarian in the distant past (that lowered
my Cholesterol to 120) but my running went into the tank until I resumed
eating animals.

Quoted message said:

I often wonder how Jurek runs at his level as a vegan.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you eat what you crave, you'll probably be getting a bit more carbs
than normal, but don't skimp on protein or fat. You need it all. Some
research even suggests that "fat loading" before a race is beneficial, so
don't go crazy trying to eliminate fat. If you eat too much protein, you
can throw your self into ketosis and put stress on your kidneys.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't have double-blind studies to back all of this up, but this has
worked for me:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

1) I eat something carbo-sweet right after a workout: 2-500 calories,
depending on distance covered (8 to 20 miles). There's a small window of
time after exercise (30-60 minutes) when carbs consumed go more directly
to replenish tired muscles.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2) I eat a large carb-laden meal (chinese or Italian usually) the night
before a long run or race. I've found that stuffing myself a bit doesn't
hurt in this case.

Quoted message said:

I like a fair amount of fat also before a race. If I was to have a pasta
meal it would be with olive oil rather then a red sauce. I never approach
that meal with any leanings. I let my internnal craves dictate my meal.
Sometime it's fish, rice and a veg but salad with oil. Other times it's
steak and potato. Lately me pre race meals have been meat. With an early
race start 5-8 am, I like to eat early the night before say 5:30 to 6 pm.
To maximize the digestion.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3) I eat 3 small meals during the day, plus dinner: Usually at 7am,
10am, 2:30pm (post run), and 7pm.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

4) Before a race, I eat only 100/calories per hour before the start. Eg,
at 6am for a 9am race, I never eat more than 300 calories.

Quoted message said:

Maybe this is why you are faster than me. 🙂 I eat an early dinner so I
can have a big breakfast. Between the two meals I hardly have to eat
during a 50k. I can get by nicely with a few handfuls of fig Newtons. At
Vermont I hit a aid station that had 5 different kinds of homemade
cookies. Some even with carrots. I grabbed a few of each and nibbled for
the next few miles. Heavenly. Please note this is for trail running which
allows liberal bathroom breaks. This may not be a good approach for a
marathon since port-o-crapers are often hard to find plus the taboo of
taking the time for #1, much less #2.

Quoted message said:

And I consider beer a fine carbo recovery drink. 😉

Quoted message said:

-Doug

Hi
For some reason CP's post is not showing up on my newsreader, ive checked
this group through google and have been able to see your post.

To be honest its no special marathon im training for, its my own doing, ive
planned out a very reasonable marathon distance route that im planning to do
early April.
Heres where i stand at the moment, im 248lbs i run 3 miles a day 5 days a
week (8 months a go i was doing 8 mile runs 3 times a week in about 1:20),
usually around 9:25 minute mile. My goal at the minute is loosing some of
the weight, however i am the moment feeling real low on energy.

Unfortunatly i dont like any for of Veg or Salad!, i eat a lot of tuna,
chicken, eggs, cottage chees, bacon, toast and a few other very bland
thing,lol i dont drink hot drins and usually drinklots of water and diet
soda. My weight loss is doing fine, its slowly going the right way. Id like
to increase my milage a litle each week and am aiming for 10% a week, i
just feel at the moment during my runs that i have zero energy, i also feel
this a lot during the day aswell. I'd like to get down to 225lb and then
start to eat "differetly" and then really start to train for the marathon
ive planned. Im very goal orientated and once i have a plan i usually stick
to it and achieve my goals.

appreciate all the comments

You need more carbs, preferably eaten after your run to restore
gylcogen in your muscles. And yes, you might be in ketosis. If you are
in ketosis, you may gain back a little weight when you start eating
more carbs, but don't fret, it's water weight not fat.... that's
because you've probably only lost mostly water weight. The body stores
4 parts water to every one part glycogen. When you do Atkins and go
into ketosis, the initial weight drop is your body releasing the water
from your muscles as it depletes the glycogen stored there.

Carbs come in the form of grains (rice, pasta, bread, cereal),
vegetables and fruit. Dairy also contains a fair amount of carbs. If
you want an ideal diet, choose only whole grains - look for "100%
whole wheat" on the label of your bread, and compare grams of fiber,
choosing the one with the most fiber. Choose whole grain pasta over
enriched pasta. Brown rice over white. But making dietary changes is
all about improvement - so if you want to stick with the white stuff
for now and gradually graduate to the higher-fiber stuff, that is
fine. Just work in some servings each day - check the Harvard site
someone posted for guidelines about how many you need.

Do you like fruit? I suspect you might, since you drink diet coke so
you probably have a sweet tooth? You can get all the same benefits
eating fruit, instead of vegetables. The only difference is that fruit
is a little higher in calories than vegetables. But so good for you,
it's worth making room for it in your diet. You should be getting a
bare minimum of 5 servings of fruits and/or veggies a day, so if it
has to be 5 servings of fruit, that will work. FYI, a large banana is
actually *two* servings.

Choose whole pieces of fruit over juice, which is devoid of any fiber.
If you like juice, no more than one 1/2 cup a day. As an added
benefit, the fruit acids will counteract the damage diet coke does to
deplete your bones of calcium, making all that cottage cheese and tuna
you're eating more worthwhile to meeting your calcium needs.

You might actually like a salad if it is topped with fruit instead of
veggies. Try this favorite of mine: fresh baby spinach topped with
chicken, feta cheese (optional), walnuts, sliced strawberries, and
cranberries, with 1 TB balsalmic vinegar and 1 TB olive oil. Go ahead,
skip the spinach if you really must... or just pick at it... who
knows? You might develop a taste.

Or make a fruit smoothie with yogurt, a banana, and 1/2 cup frozen
berries (your choice - blueberry, raspberry, strawberry or even a
mix). This is my breakfast every morning, but the smoothie is also a
*great* after-your-run drink! If you want to get fancier, you can add
in a TB of flax seed to boost your omega 3 intake and add fiber. I've
heard adding FiberOne cereal works too, but I've never tried this. Or,
if you really like your protein, try a scoop of protein powder.

Have you ever heard of volumetrics eating? Might be worth a google.
The concept is that us humans like to eat a certain volume of food
each day. We don't actually care whether it's 5 cups of bacon fat, or
5 cups of pasta, or 5 cups of vegetables. As long as it's a certain
volume, we'll feel satisfied. But 5 cups of bacon fat has far more
calories than 5 cups of vegetables.

You can make this idea work for you, by eating items that are high-
volume and low-cal. Vegetables top the list here. You can eat 5 cups
of spinach for something like 30 calories (which you probably expend
just preparing, chewing and digesting the spinach). Fruit is next,
carbs follow fruit, then protein, and finally, fats, which pack a lot
of calories in a small amount of volume.

More ideas for people who don't like their veggies:

1) Choose fresh over frozen, and frozen over canned. There's nothing
more pathetic than canned vegetables. If you grew up eating canned
vegetables, this could be why you hate them.

2) Learn how to cook them properly. Veggies need a delicate touch. Try
steaming lightly for just a few minutes until fork-tender but not
mushy. The veggies' color should get more brilliant and vivid. You've
killed the veggie if it turns an unappealing color.

3) If you don't like the bitter taste of veggies, try roasting
peppers, zucchini, onions, tomatoes, asparagus, etc on the grill with
a touch of olive oil. Roasting carmelizes the veggies and brings out
the sweetness.

4) Do you like spicey, salty flavors? Try stir-frying veggies in a
wok, along with some garlic, ginggerroot, and crushed dried chili
peppers. When it's done (fork-tender, brilliant color), add in some
soy sauce for salt. Sodium will make you retain water, but heck, if
drowning veggies in soy gets you to eat them, who cares.

5) Try drinking your veggies. Some people like V8 - I think it's
horrible. But I do drink my veggies in the form of pureed soup. It's
very easy to make once you get the basic idea down. It can be done
with artichokes, leeks, asparagus, spinach, broccoli, cauliflower.
Just saute some onion and garlic in olive oil, dump in the veggie of
your choice, add a box of broth, bring to boil, reduce to simmer until
fork-tender and the color is more vivid but not yucky looking. Cooking
times vary - spinach takes just minutes, broccoli will take about 20
minutes. Remove from heat. Then use a stick blender or food processor
or standard blender and puree the whole thing until all the lumps and
offending textures are gone. This is best served warm. You can also
make a cold gazpacho soup made out of fresh tomatoes.

6) When all else fails, hide the veggies! You can puree carrots,
zucchini, onions, peppers very finely, and then add them to pasta
sauce, meatloaf, lasagna, hamburgers, muffins, pancakes, and more. You
really don't notice them at all. You could also serve your sweet tooth
with favorites such as pumpkin pie, zhucchini bread, and Chocolate
Beet Cake (google for a recipe... it will be the moistest, most
scrumptious chocolate cake you've ever eaten, and you will be amazed
it contains beets!! I don't even *like* beets, and I love this!)

jen

(who cooks for picky eaters all the time)

Doug Freese said:

And your additions are also right on. I know the term balance is vague
but that's how I approach eating. If I had to guess I average close to
60/20/20 carbs/fat/protein. It's not that I alter my eating, it's
natural for me. Take a look athttp://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html I think the
Harvard School of Public Health is light years ahead of the government
pyramid.

I totally agree with you on this, Doug! I also follow the Harvard
pyramid and think it's light years ahead, but my ratios seem to
average closer to 50/30/20 carbs/fat/protein, with 90% of my fats
coming from olive oil, nuts, seeds, fatty fishes, etc. I've
experimented around with this, and I feel much better getting slightly
higher amounts of fat, and it keeps me more sated and on an evener
keel throughout the day.

Bearing in mind I'm petite so I don't need gobs of calories, I eat 9
servings of fruits and veggies, 2 dairy, 2 protein, 3 fats, and just
1-2 whole-grain carbs (usually at dinner - helps me sleep). I do add
in an extra carb on days I run longer than 45 minutes. There's also
room in there for a glass of wine.. beer, blech!

jen

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TJ said:

For some reason CP's post is not showing up on my newsreader,

Oh man, now everyone will want to use your newsreader, with its built-
in smart killfile functionality!

Quoted message said:

Im very goal orientated

So set a goal of cultivating a taste for some veggies and fruit.

C'mom, if I could follow through on a New Year's resolution a couple
years ago to cultivate a taste for durian (happy to report: mission
accomplished), you can work on peas, cauliflower, spinach, and red
peppers. It's adult food, and my nutritional layman's mind boggles at
the thought of trying to be anything approaching "healthy" without
eating lots of plants. Though I guess some populations like Tuvan and
Mongolian nomads manage. (OTOH my father, of Swedish descent, never
cared for veggies outside of fries and ketchup, and he had a heart
attack and octuple bypass surgery in Sep 01.)

Too bad you say you only enjoy bland foods or I'd suggest you pick up
an Indian cookbook. There's some folks who like veggies and flavors!

no no dont get me wrong i didnt say i only LIKE bland foods, believe me im
from the UK and love nothing more than a good old english dish of indian
food! its just not good for me in what im trying to do!!

Ive done 4 years without veg or salad, im afraid thats one goal i wouldnt
hit!!

"TJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TJ said:

For some reason CP's post is not showing up on my newsreader,

Oh man, now everyone will want to use your newsreader, with its built-
in smart killfile functionality!

Quoted message said:

Im very goal orientated

So set a goal of cultivating a taste for some veggies and fruit.

C'mom, if I could follow through on a New Year's resolution a couple
years ago to cultivate a taste for durian (happy to report: mission
accomplished), you can work on peas, cauliflower, spinach, and red
peppers. It's adult food, and my nutritional layman's mind boggles at
the thought of trying to be anything approaching "healthy" without
eating lots of plants. Though I guess some populations like Tuvan and
Mongolian nomads manage. (OTOH my father, of Swedish descent, never
cared for veggies outside of fries and ketchup, and he had a heart
attack and octuple bypass surgery in Sep 01.)

Too bad you say you only enjoy bland foods or I'd suggest you pick up
an Indian cookbook. There's some folks who like veggies and flavors!

no no dont get me wrong i didnt say i only LIKE bland foods, believe me im
from the UK and love nothing more than a good old english dish of indian
food! its just not good for me in what im trying to do!!

Ive done 4 years without veg or salad, im afraid thats one goal i wouldnt
hit!!

sorry i meant 40 years!

shinypenny said:

. . .
You need more carbs, preferably eaten after your run to restore
gylcogen in your muscles. . . .

After breaking my leg October 2006, I went from 30 miles per week to
zero. I had to drop 3000 calories plus or minus from my weekly menu.
I was very cautious (I write down everything I eat and drink) and
weight gain during recovery was minimal. I also got to watch my diet
as I have gone gradually from zero miles per week back to 15 - 20. I
found that almost all my extra "running calories" are carbs -- mostly
extra helpings of bread or rice with dinner.

Quoted message said:

You might actually like a salad if it is topped with fruit instead of
veggies. Try this favorite of mine: fresh baby spinach topped with
chicken, feta cheese (optional), walnuts, sliced strawberries, and
cranberries, with 1 TB balsalmic vinegar and 1 TB olive oil. Go ahead,
skip the spinach if you really must... or just pick at it... who
knows? You might develop a taste.

Fruit on salad was a huge breakthrough for me a couple of years ago --
you have described one of my favorite salads! I'm allergic to
strawberries, so lately I use apple or pear with dried fruit --
raisins, cranberries, even date pieces.

Quoted message said:

. . .
Have you ever heard of volumetrics eating? Might be worth a google.
The concept is that us humans like to eat a certain volume of food
each day. We don't actually care whether it's 5 cups of bacon fat, or
5 cups of pasta, or 5 cups of vegetables. As long as it's a certain
volume, we'll feel satisfied. But 5 cups of bacon fat has far more
calories than 5 cups of vegetables.
. . .

Quoted message said:

. . .
1) Choose fresh over frozen, and frozen over canned. There's nothing
more pathetic than canned vegetables. If you grew up eating canned
vegetables, this could be why you hate them.

LOL -- my dad worked for Libby when they were a giant (not green
giant) in the industry. I was 16 years old before I realized you
could buy fresh green beans. I was 18 years old before I realized
they made cans that weren't dented! -- I grew up on "spoils" -- cans
that were dented or had labels removed (mmm... mystery vegetables for
dinner!).

Quoted message said:

. . .
5) Try drinking your veggies. Some people like V8 - I think it's
horrible. . . .

Hey, I like V8! Maybe it's a subliminal affection for the can . . .

Quoted message said:

But I do drink my veggies in the form of pureed soup. . . .

You're making me hungry. The only thing I feel I must add is: dip.

Salsa can be anything-goes veg. mix. So can guacamole. Be creative.
(Beware too many chips, though. . . ) We also cook yellow squash (cut
up and steam it ) then scoop out the yellow goop and put it in the
blender with sauteed onions and garlic, and garbanzo beans -- canned,
of course! :-) -- it makes a great colorful topping for rice,
potato, or for dipping. (We call it "squash-amole"!)

Thanks Jen, and good luck, TJ!
--
Daniel ( [email hidden] )

Daniel said:

I
found that almost all my extra "running calories" are carbs -- mostly
extra helpings of bread or rice with dinner.

Yep. This is what I figure too. If you read my other post, I stay
around 1-2 carb servings (talking about grains here, not fruits,
veggies, and dairy, which contain carbs too), and add a carb or two if
I'm running longer. Of course taller people and men can get away with
more than just 1-2 carbs than I can.

Quoted message said:

Fruit on salad was a huge breakthrough for me a couple of years ago --
you have described one of my favorite salads! I'm allergic to
strawberries, so lately I use apple or pear with dried fruit --
raisins, cranberries, even date pieces.

I had an awesome salad the other day, wish I could remember... it had
Bibb lettuce, orange slices, and I think apples? And maybe walnuts.
And goat cheese?

If you like fruit, this isn't a salad but it's my favorite pizza: top
a pizza shell with carmelizied onions, blue cheese, and pears, and
bake. Mmmm...

But I'm actually more of a savory-salad eater on most days. Latest jag
I was on was a summer salad of spinach, shrimp, capers, buffalo mozz,
roasted corn (fresh corn grilled right off the cob and leftover from
dinner), tomatoes (fresh from the garden), cucumbers, and fresh basil.
An amazing combo.

Quoted message said:

LOL -- my dad worked for Libby when they were a giant (not green
giant) in the industry. I was 16 years old before I realized you
could buy fresh green beans. I was 18 years old before I realized
they made cans that weren't dented! -- I grew up on "spoils" -- cans
that were dented or had labels removed (mmm... mystery vegetables for
dinner!).

Yep, I grew up on the canned stuff too. Those sad green beans. I was a
picky eater and hated veggies, until I learned how to cook them. Green
beans are now one of my favorites.

Quoted message said:

Hey, I like V8! Maybe it's a subliminal affection for the can . . .

But it tastes like the can - metallic!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But I do drink my veggies in the form of pureed soup. . . .

You're making me hungry. The only thing I feel I must add is: dip.

Ack, I forgot about the dip!

Quoted message said:

Salsa can be anything-goes veg. mix. So can guacamole. Be creative.
(Beware too many chips, though. . . )

Get a can of fat-free refried beans (I like Old El Paso). Smear on to
a tortilla, add a bit of cheese, dump a lot of salsa on it, attempt to
roll the whole thing up (okay if it's messy). Nuke it for 2 minutes.
Add guacamole and sour cream if your diet allows. A great way to get
fiber.

Quoted message said:

We also cook yellow squash (cut
up and steam it ) then scoop out the yellow goop and put it in the
blender with sauteed onions and garlic,

Eh, I'm not a squash fan myself. Never did learn to like it - but I
try!

However, that reminds me: yams!! Yams are awesome. Bake them, then
serve them warm with some fat-free whipped cream. It's kinda like
having pumpkin pie, without the fat.

Quoted message said:

and garbanzo beans -- canned,
of course! :-) -- it makes a great colorful topping for rice,
potato, or for dipping. (We call it "squash-amole"!)

Beans are a whole 'nother topic... there's a lot you can do with
beans.

Any other dip ideas? Now having a craving for spinach dip, but that's
kinda rich....

jen

D Stumpus said:

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I admittedly don't get a lot of fruit and veggies, but I do take a
vitamin (Purity Perfect Multi-Greens) which has extracts of lots of
"the best" veggies and fruits in it.

To each his own; but damn, plants are mighty tasty. Just like
animals. And booze. :-)

Ok, ok, I admit I love brussels sprouts, a good spinach salad, and avocados,
and tangy plums and peaches and apricots. I just don't eat as much as I
"should".

For curiosity, how much are brussels sprouts where you are? We grow
great brussels sprouts up here, but they've been close to $3/lb the last
couple years - whether local or outside. I keep meaning to go to one of
the u-pick-it farms but always space it out. Broccoli is closer to
$2/lb. I'm almost considering putting my garden back in, but I reclaimed
that area so well about 10+ yr ago that I don't want to have to break
sod again - or weed it.

I'm never sure if some of the local groceries are price gouging or not,
esp. when I see the same brand of milk for $7+/gal in one store and
$5+/gal in other stores. Another year, people refused to buy lettuce at
$3/lb so they backed off.

Dot

--
"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I
have of it."
-Thomas Jefferson, third President of the United States

Quoted message said:

Ack, I forgot about the dip!

Quoted message said:

Salsa can be anything-goes veg. mix. So can guacamole. Be creative.
(Beware too many chips, though. . . )

Quoted message said:

Any other dip ideas? Now having a craving for spinach dip, but that's
kinda rich....

As for salsa, I spent July on a severe seafood kick. I ate a ton
of monkfish with mango salsa. :-)

Staples in my house include homemade hummous and olive spreads
(usually process olives, mustard, garlic, capers, etc..)

I would suggest Mary Clark's Sport Nutrition Guidebook. I read it
after
my attempt at South Beach phase 1. My goal was a five
pound weight loss while training for a marathon. Lost three pounds
or so
the first week.. was sleeeeeppppppy the second with minimal if at all
weight loss and the third week was dead. My running suffered at the
end of week two and through week three. So,
I popped open a glass of red wine, ate a huge bowl of black thai
sticky
rice in protest, still lost some weight, and was a happier
runner. :-))

Erika