Ebarrassed by name

"Walter Janné" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello.

Slightly OT here but not quite.

I'm reading Hunter Davis "Wainwright - The Biography", at least it is a book about walking in
some way.

Since my native language is not English (German btw) I'd like to ask a question. Davis says
about AW's sister Annie Pretoria she was "deeply enbarrassed" about her name ("Pretoria" I
guess). I don't understand that. Why was she embarrassed about a name like "Pretoria"?. To me
that name sounds not bad, but that might be because I'm not native English. Could anybody
explain that, please?

Phonetically, I agree, it doesn't *sound* bad. It is not one of the commonly accepted person names
in English (being only the name of a South African city). Young people like to be "normal" and not
stand out - being named after a city in Africa doesn't count as normal and she would undoubtedly
have been laughed at by her peers when young. In addition there is the north/south cultural thing -
having a pretentious name in the south is bad enough...

--
Bob Mannix (anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Following up to Walter Janné

Quoted message said:

Since my native language is not English (German btw) I'd like to ask a question. Davis says
about AW's sister Annie Pretoria she was "deeply enbarrassed" about her name ("Pretoria" I
guess). I don't understand that. Why was she embarrassed about a name like "Pretoria"?. To me
that name sounds not bad, but that might be because I'm not native English. Could anybody
explain that, please?

Pretoria had connotations of apartheid in South Africa?

Are you sure it wasn't "[censored]" rather than "Annie" :-)
--
Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso Walking-food-photos, Wasdale, Thames,
London etc "fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.ukOpen ↗" <-- you can email us@ this site and same for Spain at "fell-fell-Open ↗
walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

I imagine his sister was born in the early part 20th century? If so it might be that that it was an
embarassing name as a result of something that had happened in the Boer War. My history is not good,
but all sorts of things happened in and around Pretoria which may have been embarrassing, or
regarded as best forgotten, for Britain. See, for example,

free-ebooks-uk.netfirms.com28 the halt at pretoria.htmlOpen ↗

DDMcG

"Walter Janné" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello.

Slightly OT here but not quite.

I'm reading Hunter Davis "Wainwright - The Biography", at least it is a book about walking in
some way.

Since my native language is not English (German btw) I'd like to ask a question. Davis says
about AW's sister Annie Pretoria she was "deeply enbarrassed" about her name ("Pretoria" I
guess). I don't understand that. Why was she embarrassed about a name like "Pretoria"?. To me
that name sounds not bad, but that might be because I'm not native English. Could anybody
explain that, please?

Walter
--
Wenn jemand keinen Fuehrerschein hat und dann das Konto in Flensburg ueberzieht, muss er dann
einen Fuehrerschein machen, damit er keinen mehr hat?
(J. Handwerker in drf)

Walter Janné said:

Hello.

Slightly OT here but not quite.

I'm reading Hunter Davis "Wainwright - The Biography", at least it is a book about walking in
some way.

Since my native language is not English (German btw) I'd like to ask a question. Davis says
about AW's sister Annie Pretoria she was "deeply enbarrassed" about her name ("Pretoria" I
guess). I don't understand that. Why was she embarrassed about a name like "Pretoria"?. To me
that name sounds not bad, but that might be because I'm not native English. Could anybody
explain that, please?

Walter

The town of Pretoria was named after the famous, or, infamous leader of the Voortrekker's, Andries
Pretorius. Winston Churchill was imprisoned there during the Boer War. Maybe her embarrasment has
something to do with the above. On the other hand, ..........! However, it was in the early part of
the last century not an uncommon name.

Gerald

Mr Magoo schrieb:

Quoted message said:

I imagine his sister was born in the early part 20th century?

Yes. January 1900

Quoted message said:

If so it might be that that it was an embarassing name as a result of something that had happened
in the Boer War.

Yep. Hunter Davies writes: "...he (her father) decided to have a few drinks , on the way to register
her birth.The Boer War was at its height and in the pub he heard talk of some battle at Pretoria.
Arriving at the Registrar's office he decided to christen the new baby Anny Pretoria."

Quoted message said:

My history is not good, but all sorts of things happened in and around Pretoria which may have
been embarrassing, or regarded as best forgotten, for Britain.

Could be the point. I lack the background of detailed knowledge of Britain's history. Perhaps
Britain's role was not as "glorious" in the Boer War?

I suppose any German child would be embarrassed called Adolf or such...

Well, any English name wouldn't be _that_ worse...

Walter
--
Bei Computern findet man nur eine einzige Art Virus: Er befindet sich vor dem Monitor und klickt auf
alles, was bunt ist.

Reid said:

Following up to Walter Janné

Quoted message said:

Since my native language is not English (German btw) I'd like to ask a question. Davis says
about AW's sister Annie Pretoria she was "deeply enbarrassed" about her name ("Pretoria" I
guess). I don't understand that. Why was she embarrassed about a name like "Pretoria"?. To me
that name sounds not bad, but that might be because I'm not native English. Could anybody
explain that, please?

Pretoria had connotations of apartheid in South Africa?

Are you sure it wasn't "[censored]" rather than "Annie" :-)

Was it the US marines that were 'marching to Pretoria, Pretoria'? Or was that the 'shores of
Tripoli'? (In WWI?)

Katherine

In article <[email hidden]>, Walter_Janné

url=''URL:/url said:

Mr Magoo schrieb:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My history is not good, but all sorts of things happened in and around Pretoria which may have
been embarrassing, or regarded as best forgotten, for Britain.

Could be the point. I lack the background of detailed knowledge of Britain's history. Perhaps
Britain's role was not as "glorious" in the Boer War?

The British introduced the concept of concentration camps during the Boer War.

Quoted message said:

I suppose any German child would be embarrassed called Adolf or such...

Well, any English name wouldn't be _that_ worse...

Walter

The British also attempted the mass extermination of an indigenous aboriginal population
in Tasmania.

There are "skeletons in the cupboard" within the history of many nations and the British are
not excluded.

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark <\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing, "> ||
_`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and ` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

Mike Clark said:

The British also attempted the mass extermination of an indigenous aboriginal population in
Tasmania.

After our '45 rebellion they put a bounty on our pregnant women folk. Any English soldier killing
one got a special prize. Courtesy of Stinking Billy.

Bob

"Mike Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

The British introduced the concept of concentration camps during the Boer War.

Which were vastly different to the types of camps that immediately come to mind. There's a whole
industry out there dedicated to demean anything Britain has ever been involved in. Witness the soon
to be shown documentary from the BBC on Dunkirk.

Quoted message said:

The British also attempted the mass extermination of an indigenous aboriginal population in
Tasmania.

There are "skeletons in the cupboard" within the history of many nations and the British are not
excluded.

I couldn't agree more, is there any nation without any skeletons in their historical cupboard? We
often have a tendency to view yesterdays activities through 21st century eyes. As such I doubt any
nation gets claps all round for past actions.

KRO

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:18:24 +0000, Mike Clark <[email hidden]>
uttered:

Quoted message said:

The British introduced the concept of concentration camps during the Boer War.

But not for the intention that our European friends used theirs for, in the late 30's early 40's.

--
Dewi,

(remove spin for email)

* Mike Clark <[email hidden]> deigned to grace uk.rec.walking
* with their presence by declaiming:

Quoted message said:

The British also attempted the mass extermination of an indigenous aboriginal population in
Tasmania.

They didn't just attempt - they succeeded! IIRC the last aboriginal Tasmanians were a mother and her
son. The son was very large and anthropologists often came to observe him. He was very concerned
that whe he died he would end up in a museum and extracted a promise from the authorities the it
would'nt happen. He died - and ended up in a museum!

Regards: Jim Ford

Mike Clark said:

There are "skeletons in the cupboard" within the history of many nations and the British are not
excluded.

And gassing the Kurds was apparently an idea advocated by Winston Churchill.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

There are "skeletons in the cupboard" within the history of many nations and the British are not
excluded.

You're not wrong there. I remember seeing the film "Gandhi" when it first came out - and leaving the
cinema in stunned silence. Never had I felt so ashamed of my nationality.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 18:45:49 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<[email hidden]> uttered:

Quoted message said:

Mike Clark said:

There are "skeletons in the cupboard" within the history of many nations and the British are not
excluded.

And gassing the Kurds was apparently an idea advocated by Winston Churchill.

I think a lot of things, but don't actually do them...

Looking for solutions, you would put every suggestion going on the 'Table', then look at; what's
practical, what's possible and what's 'not with a barge pole', the work with what's left...

But them I'm sure you knew that or were you just mudding the water?

--
Dewi,

(remove spin for email)

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 23:23:11 -0000, Fran <[email hidden]> uttered:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

There are "skeletons in the cupboard" within the history of many nations and the British are not
excluded.

You're not wrong there. I remember seeing the film "Gandhi" when it first came out - and leaving
the cinema in stunned silence. Never had I felt so ashamed of my nationality.

Hope you don't watch Eastenders or Coronation Street....

--
Dewi,

(remove spin for email)

Dewi said:

Quoted message said:

And gassing the Kurds was apparently an idea advocated by Winston Churchill.

Quoted message said:

I think a lot of things, but don't actually do them...

We did gas the Kurds, and the idea was supported by Churchill.

From one of the many websites discussing the issue, "Winston Churchill was also fully aware of the
need for Britain to control the "uncivilised tribes" that threatened British control over major
economic sources, shipping, minerals and so on. "Recalcitrant Arabs" he called them. Churchill who
had become Colonial Secretary after the First World War decided that an impoverished Britain could
fight by different, cheaper means. So he gassed the Kurds. He despised the "squeamishness" of those
who "objected to poisonous gas against uncivilised tribes." He used airpower that was just emerging
to drop mustard gas on the Kurds, as he extolled, "spreading a lively terror." Perhaps the most
damning statement by Churchill was that in fact the gassing of the Kurds was "as experiment." "

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

"Dewi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 23:23:11 -0000, Fran <[email hidden]> uttered:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

There are "skeletons in the cupboard" within the history of many nations and the British are
not excluded.

You're not wrong there. I remember seeing the film "Gandhi" when it first came out - and leaving
the cinema in stunned silence. Never had I felt so ashamed of my nationality.

Hope you don't watch Eastenders or Coronation Street....

--
Dewi,

He's not a member of the Tartan Army either! Holland, Costa Rica, Peru, Iran, it's an ongoing
nightmare :-)

KRO

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are "skeletons in the cupboard" within the history of many nations and the British are
not excluded.

You're not wrong there. I remember seeing the film "Gandhi" when it first came out - and leaving
the cinema in stunned silence. Never had I felt so ashamed of my nationality.

Hope you don't watch Eastenders or Coronation Street....

You're in luck then, because I don't. My television is useful only for DVDs and possibly videos if
we can work out how to fix the VCR so that it works alongside the TV; it hasn't been able to 'see'
broadcast programmes for a long while now - and that's just the way I like it :-)
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Clark said:

The British also attempted the mass extermination of an indigenous aboriginal population in
Tasmania.

After our '45 rebellion they put a bounty on our pregnant women folk. Any English soldier killing
one got a special prize. Courtesy of Stinking Billy.

Bob

Indeed Billy was Stinking if he didn't offer the same bounty to the Scottish soliders on the
government side (far more numerous than the amount of Scots on the Jacobite side). I take it you're
a Jacobite, you refer to "our '45", most Scots weren't. It's not like the imagery, it's not as
romantic, but it's the truth.

KRO