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Ecocriticism as applied by M Vandeman

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Mountain Bikes
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21 June 2005
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27 July 2005
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S Curtiss
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  1. Ecocriticism as applied by Michael J. Vandeman, PHD

    MV has been noteably missing from the ng lately. Why? Perhaps it may be the current schedule of the "Sixth Biennial Conference of the Association for the Study of Literature and Environment" which is going today (June 21) to June 25. His name shows up as presenting, yet again, his "Wildlife Need Habitat Off Limits To Humans" paper. *Also presented at the same Conference in 1998 in Nevada.
    His presentation, like others scheduled for Saturday, June 25 between 8:00AM and 9:15AM, is slated for 15 minutes. (strictly adhered to, so says the agenda for the conference.)
    If you would like to attend, it is going on at the University of Oregon in Eugene.
    This conference has a focus on "ecocritism", literature and ecological basis within literature from the standpoint of criticism, discussion and exploring relationships between human culture and the natural environment.
    Naturally, this would seem to fall right in line with the philosophy of nature as presented by MV. Closer examination of the goals and definitions of an "ecocritic" may show otherwise. On the surface, MV does present his "review" of several books and articles on wildlife and humanity. Go beyond his own claim of critical review, and one can find MV has an agenda which runs to the extreme for ecology and preservation. It is this agenda which MV firmly stands upon that also discredits any discourse he may present by referencing the works of other writers in the field.
    To begin, MV seems to fall into the category:
    "As historians and literary critics sometimes move beyond traditional literary and historical studies of intersecting American nature and culture toward the question of what it would mean to act wisely, many of us now study to inform, that people may live well, and as we now say, sustainably."

    There is also an aspect of vindication for MV and his continued and often argumentative statements concerning wildlife and trails in regards to off-road cycling:
    "ECOCRITICISM FOCUSES on literary (and artistic) expression of human experience primarily in a naturally and consequently in a culturally shaped world: the joys of abundance, sorrows of deprivation, hopes for harmonious existence, and fears of loss and disaster. Ecocriticism has an agenda. As a feminist film theorist says to an Israeli semiotician in a recent novel of academic life, "Ecocriticism's new, still finding its feet, but it offers a broad vision of life and our place in nature. It could help you out of the bind you're in now, caught inside a self-enclosed definition of culture that only mirrors your own obnoxious little self-regarding angst-ridden egomaniacal crypto-smugness." The response she gets is not surprising: "Culture is a refuge from life in nature, not a part of it . ..." In ecocriticism, positions reveal themselves as persons. So the voice of ecocriticism speaks as an American woman here, speaks as if she were nature and as if speaking to culture. When culture dismisses her position, and herself, the process would seem to be self-defeating. If you want to be an ecocritic, be prepared to explain what you do and be criticized, if not satirized."

    Note the last phrase: "be prepared to explain what you do and be criticized, if not satirized."
    Is it possible MV takes this statement, or similar viewpoint, to accept the criticism and satire of his own statements as necessary roadblocks in the path of his goal? If so, it plays into his own ego as being "smarter" or "better educated" than his detractors by simply dismissing anything brought forth as being unimportant because it can not possibly match the scale, or importance, of his message. He than can justify, because of this moral platform built on the premise that his views are so beyond our comprehension that he will be vilified anyway, the arguments he presents and the use of terms such as "stupid", "moronic" and "ignorant" when countering any viewpoint not matching his own.

    More to the point, and thankfully and finally, MV falls short as an "ecocritic" as shown below:
    "Interesting critics do not simply choose ideas and authors that best fit a pre-arranged interior cognitive décor. The purpose of subjecting texts and authors to critical inquiry is not simply to search for authority to buttress an argument or perspective. Criticism is not the same as sermonizing; it must be able to entertain ideas as they are established."

    MV fails by choosing texts which, by his presentation, support his position. He often pulls selective quotes or passages from the whole to support his statements and philosophy. This diminishes his own statements and belittles the works he cites. His argumentative statements reduce any discussion of ideas into positions of extremism which can not be resolved. This, so far as I have been able to determine, counters the goals of "ecocritics" and environmentalism in general.

    To see the website and agenda for the Sixth Biennial Conference of the Association for the Study of Literature and Environment
    go here: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~smcfarla/index.html

    To see the text quoted above in context, see "Blues in the Green - Ecocriticism under Critique" here: http://www.asle.umn.edu/archive/intro/cohen.html#FOOT4

    M Vandeman's website is here: http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/

    S Curtiss
    Naturally Occuring Human and Offroad cyclist

  2. S Curtiss said:

    Ecocriticism as applied by Michael J. Vandeman, PHD

    MV has been noteably missing from the ng lately. Why? Perhaps it may
    be the current schedule of the "Sixth Biennial Conference of the
    Association for the Study of Literature and Environment" which is
    going today (June 21) to June 25. His name shows up as presenting,
    yet again, his "Wildlife Need Habitat Off Limits To Humans" paper.
    *Also presented at the same Conference in 1998 in Nevada.

    {Hugh Jass Memorial Snip}

    Wow that's a lot of work for a whack nutjob.

    Bill "just a little ecocrittercism" S.

  3. I just viewed MV's website and perused his "fan letters". Odd, the ones that I
    did read, seemed to have the same writing style, as if they were written by the
    same person. Now, how could that be and I wonder who?

    KM
    (Known to leave a few tracks in the dirt)

    S Curtiss said:

    Ecocriticism as applied by Michael J. Vandeman, PHD


    ..
    ..
    ..

    Quoted message said:


    M Vandeman's website is here: http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/

    S Curtiss
    Naturally Occuring Human and Offroad cyclist

  4. "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:_LXte.50751$iU.48730@lakeread05...
    Ecocriticism as applied by Michael J. Vandeman, PHD

    MV has been noteably missing from the ng lately. Why? Perhaps it may be the
    current schedule of the "Sixth Biennial Conference of the Association for
    the Study of Literature and Environment" which is going today (June 21) to
    June 25.

    And I thought he was in jail. Silly me.

  5. was it just me that read this as eroticism...<shudder>
    Steve.

  6. "spademan o---[) *" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    was it just me that read this as eroticism...<shudder>
    Steve.

    DoOoD, yer sick.

    Shaun aRe

  7. spademan o---) * said:

    was it just me that read this as eroticism...<shudder>
    Steve.

    Nope, im with you there - shocked me into reading an MV post i must
    say.

    J

  8. On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:03:39 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    ..Ecocriticism as applied by Michael J. Vandeman, PHD
    ..
    ..MV has been noteably missing from the ng lately. Why? Perhaps it may be the current schedule of the "Sixth Biennial Conference of the Association for the Study of Literature and Environment" which is going today (June 21) to June 25. His name shows up as presenting, yet again, his "Wildlife Need Habitat Off Limits To Humans" paper. *Also presented at the same Conference in 1998 in Nevada.
    ..His presentation, like others scheduled for Saturday, June 25 between 8:00AM and 9:15AM, is slated for 15 minutes. (strictly adhered to, so says the agenda for the conference.)
    ..If you would like to attend, it is going on at the University of Oregon in Eugene.
    ..This conference has a focus on "ecocritism", literature and ecological basis within literature from the standpoint of criticism, discussion and exploring relationships between human culture and the natural environment.
    ..Naturally, this would seem to fall right in line with the philosophy of nature as presented by MV. Closer examination of the goals and definitions of an "ecocritic" may show otherwise. On the surface, MV does present his "review" of several books and articles on wildlife and humanity. Go beyond his own claim of critical review, and one can find MV has an agenda which runs to the extreme for ecology and preservation. It is this agenda which MV firmly stands upon that also discredits any discourse he may present by referencing the works of other writers in the field.
    ..To begin, MV seems to fall into the category:
    .."As historians and literary critics sometimes move beyond traditional literary and historical studies of intersecting American nature and culture toward the question of what it would mean to act wisely, many of us now study to inform, that people may live well, and as we now say, sustainably."
    ..
    ..There is also an aspect of vindication for MV and his continued and often argumentative statements concerning wildlife and trails in regards to off-road cycling:
    .."ECOCRITICISM FOCUSES on literary (and artistic) expression of human experience primarily in a naturally and consequently in a culturally shaped world: the joys of abundance, sorrows of deprivation, hopes for harmonious existence, and fears of loss and disaster. Ecocriticism has an agenda. As a feminist film theorist says to an Israeli semiotician in a recent novel of academic life, "Ecocriticism's new, still finding its feet, but it offers a broad vision of life and our place in nature. It could help you out of the bind you're in now, caught inside a self-enclosed definition of culture that only mirrors your own obnoxious little self-regarding angst-ridden egomaniacal crypto-smugness." The response she gets is not surprising: "Culture is a refuge from life in nature, not a part of it . ..." In ecocriticism, positions reveal themselves as persons. So the voice of ecocriticism speaks as an American woman here, speaks as if she were nature and as if speaking to culture. When culture
    ..dismisses her position, and herself, the process would seem to be self-defeating. If you want to be an ecocritic, be prepared to explain what you do and be criticized, if not satirized."
    ..
    ..Note the last phrase: "be prepared to explain what you do and be criticized, if not satirized."
    ..Is it possible MV takes this statement, or similar viewpoint, to accept the criticism and satire of his own statements as necessary roadblocks in the path of his goal? If so, it plays into his own ego as being "smarter" or "better educated" than his detractors by simply dismissing anything brought forth as being unimportant because it can not possibly match the scale, or importance, of his message. He than can justify, because of this moral platform built on the premise that his views are so beyond our comprehension that he will be vilified anyway, the arguments he presents and the use of terms such as "stupid", "moronic" and "ignorant" when countering any viewpoint not matching his own.
    ..
    ..More to the point, and thankfully and finally, MV falls short as an "ecocritic" as shown below:
    .."Interesting critics do not simply choose ideas and authors that best fit a pre-arranged interior cognitive décor. The purpose of subjecting texts and authors to critical inquiry is not simply to search for authority to buttress an argument or perspective. Criticism is not the same as sermonizing; it must be able to entertain ideas as they are established."
    ..
    ..MV fails by choosing texts which, by his presentation, support his position. He often pulls selective quotes or passages from the whole to support his statements and philosophy. This diminishes his own statements and belittles the works he cites. His argumentative statements reduce any discussion of ideas into positions of extremism which can not be resolved. This, so far as I have been able to determine, counters the goals of "ecocritics" and environmentalism in general.
    ..
    ..To see the website and agenda for the Sixth Biennial Conference of the Association for the Study of Literature and Environment
    ..go here: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~smcfarla/index.html
    ..
    ..To see the text quoted above in context, see "Blues in the Green - Ecocriticism under Critique" here: http://www.asle.umn.edu/archive/intro/cohen.html#FOOT4
    ..
    ..M Vandeman's website is here: http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/
    ..
    ..S Curtiss
    ..Naturally Occuring Human and Offroad cyclist

    Did you say something? Actually, my paper was very well received by those
    university professors and scientists, as well as activists. You obviously don't
    know what you are talking about.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  9. "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:03:39 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    .Ecocriticism as applied by Michael J. Vandeman, PHD
    .
    .S Curtiss
    .Naturally Occuring Human and Offroad cyclist

    Did you say something? Actually, my paper was very well received by those
    university professors and scientists, as well as activists. You obviously
    don't
    know what you are talking about.

    How many? Who were they? Can I contact them? You had 15 minutes to present
    the same "paper" you presented to the same conference in 1998. You weren't
    sought out to be a guest - You answered a call for papers.... Just as you
    do for practically every conference listed on your site. You are never
    listed as a key speaker. And while at these events, you are "preaching to
    the choir". How does that do anything except give you an "audience"
    predisposed to believe what you say? Anyone taking a few minutes to research
    your background, your conclusions, your out of context quotations, and your
    abusive behavior find what we all know. You talk a good game until your
    information is challenged. Then it is "stupid" and "all mt bikers this..."
    and "all mt bikers that..."
    Hardly a base in science to vilify an entire group based on an activity they
    enjoy because a few act badly. If so, the same science would apply to "all
    hikers" because a few leave trash, walk off trail, destroy habitat and drive
    to the trailhead. Science only works if it is applied the same way to every
    variable. If you were as intelligent as you believe yourself to be, you
    would understand that.
    You are a con man. That is all you are.

    Quoted message said:

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  10. On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 01:31:34 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Did you say something?

    Translation: "Tra la la la la, I'm not listening"

    Quoted message said:

    Actually, my paper was very well received by those
    university professors and scientists, as well as activists.

    Yes, I'm sure they appreciate a good laugh at your expense as much as
    we do.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  11. "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:03:39 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    .Ecocriticism as applied by Michael J. Vandeman, PHD
    .

    Did you say something? Actually, my paper was very well received by those
    university professors and scientists, as well as activists. You obviously
    don't
    know what you are talking about.

    I "obviously" don't know what I'm talking about? Why? Because I disagree
    with you? Because I challenge your credibility based on the information from
    the site of the conference you attended? Because I show your bias is present
    and disqualifies you from making qualified reviews of the papers you cite?
    Because I take the time to point out the flaws in your "science" and "fact"?
    Because I know your 15 minutes in front of a sympathetic audience does
    nothing but boost your ego? Because I took the time to study your posts and
    behavior and compare them to the philosophy of the conference you just
    attended? Because I show clearly where my conclusions came from, with the
    context and frame of reference shown clearly? Because I do not blindly
    accept a PhD as license for credibility?
    Or is it simply that I own a mt bike?

    Quoted message said:

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  12. On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 01:51:55 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    ..
    .."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    ..news:[email hidden]...
    ..> On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:03:39 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    ..>
    ..> .Ecocriticism as applied by Michael J. Vandeman, PHD
    ..> .
    ..> .S Curtiss
    ..> .Naturally Occuring Human and Offroad cyclist
    ..>
    ..> Did you say something? Actually, my paper was very well received by those
    ..> university professors and scientists, as well as activists. You obviously
    ..> don't
    ..> know what you are talking about.
    ..
    ..How many? Who were they? Can I contact them? You had 15 minutes to present
    ..the same "paper" you presented to the same conference in 1998. You weren't
    ..sought out to be a guest - You answered a call for papers.... Just as you
    ..do for practically every conference listed on your site. You are never
    ..listed as a key speaker. And while at these events, you are "preaching to
    ..the choir". How does that do anything except give you an "audience"
    ..predisposed to believe what you say? Anyone taking a few minutes to research
    ..your background, your conclusions, your out of context quotations, and your
    ..abusive behavior find what we all know. You talk a good game until your
    ..information is challenged. Then it is "stupid" and "all mt bikers this..."
    ..and "all mt bikers that..."
    ..Hardly a base in science to vilify an entire group based on an activity they
    ..enjoy because a few act badly. If so, the same science would apply to "all
    ..hikers" because a few leave trash, walk off trail, destroy habitat and drive
    ..to the trailhead. Science only works if it is applied the same way to every
    ..variable. If you were as intelligent as you believe yourself to be, you
    ..would understand that.
    ..You are a con man. That is all you are.

    If that were true, I wouldn't be continually invited to speak at these
    conferences.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  13. "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 01:51:55 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    .
    ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    .news:[email hidden]...
    .> On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:03:39 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:
    .>
    .> .Ecocriticism as applied by Michael J. Vandeman, PHD
    .> .
    .> .S Curtiss
    .> .Naturally Occuring Human and Offroad cyclist
    .>
    .> Did you say something? Actually, my paper was very well received by
    those
    .> university professors and scientists, as well as activists. You
    obviously
    .> don't
    .> know what you are talking about.
    .
    .How many? Who were they? Can I contact them? You had 15 minutes to
    present
    .the same "paper" you presented to the same conference in 1998. You
    weren't
    .sought out to be a guest - You answered a call for papers.... Just as
    you
    .do for practically every conference listed on your site. You are never
    .listed as a key speaker. And while at these events, you are "preaching to
    .the choir". How does that do anything except give you an "audience"
    .predisposed to believe what you say? Anyone taking a few minutes to
    research
    .your background, your conclusions, your out of context quotations, and
    your
    .abusive behavior find what we all know. You talk a good game until your
    .information is challenged. Then it is "stupid" and "all mt bikers
    this..."
    .and "all mt bikers that..."
    .Hardly a base in science to vilify an entire group based on an activity
    they
    .enjoy because a few act badly. If so, the same science would apply to
    "all
    .hikers" because a few leave trash, walk off trail, destroy habitat and
    drive
    .to the trailhead. Science only works if it is applied the same way to
    every
    .variable. If you were as intelligent as you believe yourself to be, you
    .would understand that.
    .You are a con man. That is all you are.

    If that were true, I wouldn't be continually invited to speak at these
    conferences.


    If you were invited, you would have been listed as a keynote speaker. You
    were listed in a forum setting with 15 minutes to present and field question
    then on to the next speaker.
    Having your paper accepted because it fits the agenda of the conference and
    being sought out and invited are two different things. When they come to
    you, invite you and pay for your expenses to be there, let us know. Until
    then, you are merely "inviting yourself" by answering a "call for papers".

    Quoted message said:

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  14. Mike Vandeman said:

    .You are a con man. That is all you are.

    If that were true, I wouldn't be continually invited to speak at these
    conferences.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

    When and where is the next one?

  15. On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:32:44 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    ..
    .."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    ..news:[email hidden]...
    ..> On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 01:51:55 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    ..>
    ..> .
    ..> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    ..> .news:[email hidden]...
    ..> .> On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:03:39 -0400, "S Curtiss" <[email hidden]>
    ..> wrote:
    ..> .>
    ..> .> .Ecocriticism as applied by Michael J. Vandeman, PHD
    ..> .> .
    ..> .> .S Curtiss
    ..> .> .Naturally Occuring Human and Offroad cyclist
    ..> .>
    ..> .> Did you say something? Actually, my paper was very well received by
    ..> those
    ..> .> university professors and scientists, as well as activists. You
    ..> obviously
    ..> .> don't
    ..> .> know what you are talking about.
    ..> .
    ..> .How many? Who were they? Can I contact them? You had 15 minutes to
    ..> present
    ..> .the same "paper" you presented to the same conference in 1998. You
    ..> weren't
    ..> .sought out to be a guest - You answered a call for papers.... Just as
    ..> you
    ..> .do for practically every conference listed on your site. You are never
    ..> .listed as a key speaker. And while at these events, you are "preaching to
    ..> .the choir". How does that do anything except give you an "audience"
    ..> .predisposed to believe what you say? Anyone taking a few minutes to
    ..> research
    ..> .your background, your conclusions, your out of context quotations, and
    ..> your
    ..> .abusive behavior find what we all know. You talk a good game until your
    ..> .information is challenged. Then it is "stupid" and "all mt bikers
    ..> this..."
    ..> .and "all mt bikers that..."
    ..> .Hardly a base in science to vilify an entire group based on an activity
    ..> they
    ..> .enjoy because a few act badly. If so, the same science would apply to
    ..> "all
    ..> .hikers" because a few leave trash, walk off trail, destroy habitat and
    ..> drive
    ..> .to the trailhead. Science only works if it is applied the same way to
    ..> every
    ..> .variable. If you were as intelligent as you believe yourself to be, you
    ..> .would understand that.
    ..> .You are a con man. That is all you are.
    ..>
    ..> If that were true, I wouldn't be continually invited to speak at these
    ..> conferences.
    ..If you were invited, you would have been listed as a keynote speaker. You
    ..were listed in a forum setting with 15 minutes to present and field question
    ..then on to the next speaker.
    ..Having your paper accepted because it fits the agenda of the conference and
    ..being sought out and invited are two different things. When they come to
    ..you, invite you and pay for your expenses to be there, let us know. Until
    ..then, you are merely "inviting yourself" by answering a "call for papers".

    I was invited to present my paper. YOU weren't. Liars aren't in much demand
    these days, except in Washington, D.C.

    ..> ===
    ..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    ..> humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    ..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    ..>
    ..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
    ..

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  16. On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 22:03:52 -0400, reader <[email hidden]> wrote:

    ..Mike Vandeman wrote:
    ..
    ..> .You are a con man. That is all you are.
    ..>
    ..> If that were true, I wouldn't be continually invited to speak at these
    ..> conferences.
    ..> ===
    ..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    ..> humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    ..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    ..>
    ..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
    ..
    ..When and where is the next one?

    None of your business.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  17. * Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    .> If that were true, I wouldn't be continually invited to speak at these
    .> conferences.
    .
    .When and where is the next one?

    None of your business.

    What's the matter little one? You afraid that someone will actually sit
    in on your "lectures" and question you if we know where the next one is?

    Jason

  18. Mike Vandeman said:

    On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 22:03:52 -0400, reader <[email hidden]> wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman wrote:
    .
    .> .You are a con man. That is all you are.
    .>
    .> If that were true, I wouldn't be continually invited to speak at these
    .> conferences.
    .> ===
    .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    .> humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    .>
    .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
    .
    .When and where is the next one?

    None of your business.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

    If its none of my business then why do you make this newsgroup your
    business?

  19. On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:59:41 -0300, Jason <[email hidden]> wrote:

    ..* Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>:
    ..> .> If that were true, I wouldn't be continually invited to speak at these
    ..> .> conferences.
    ..> .
    ..> .When and where is the next one?
    ..>
    ..> None of your business.
    ..
    ..What's the matter little one? You afraid that someone will actually sit
    ..in on your "lectures" and question you if we know where the next one is?

    No, harass and threaten, which mountain bikers are notorious for.

    ..Jason

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  20. * Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:59:41 -0300, Jason <[email hidden]> wrote:

    .* Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>:
    .> .> If that were true, I wouldn't be continually invited to speak at these
    .> .> conferences.
    .> .
    .> .When and where is the next one?
    .>
    .> None of your business.
    .
    .What's the matter little one? You afraid that someone will actually sit
    .in on your "lectures" and question you if we know where the next one is?

    No, harass and threaten, which mountain bikers are notorious for.

    Got any real proof of that or is it like everything else and just in
    your head? Oh wait I know what you mean, you actually mean they question
    you and you can't handle that.

    Jason

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