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Electric Bcycles: Are they really Herisy?

Started by Daryl Hunt · · Last activity · 14 posts · 253 views

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Road Cycling
Published
26 June 2006
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Daryl Hunt
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  1. One of the items that is close to me is the Electric Bicycle. Not confused
    with the Scooter, Moped or Motorcycle.

    The first thing we need to do is to define a "Bicycle". That's easy. The
    requirements are not done by a State since the Consumer Protection Safety
    Commission already has that on the law books.
    16 CFR Part 1512
    cpsc_bicycle_requirements

    All Bicyles must be built to these specification or they can't be imported
    or commercially manufactured as Bicycles. This is pretty cut and dried. So
    give it a read.

    Next, what is an electric bicycle. What makes it different than a Scooter,
    Moped or Motorcycle? Again, that is covered in a subsection of the same as
    what defines a Bicycle. It was ammended in August 2004.

    HR 727 Was passed by the House of Representatives
    S. 1156 Federal Law was passed by the US Senate which both of these caused
    the

    -mmendment to 16 CFR Part 1512 to Public Law which is now 107-319. While
    the house and senate bills happened after 107-319, they were a clear
    indictation to the States that the electric Bicycle was a legal
    "NON-Motorized" vehicle and was a Bicycle and not a Motor Vehicle. Many of
    the states were clamoring with some pretty cute wording to undermine this.

    My favorite is "Motorized Bicycle". Now that is just getting too cute with
    wording. Anything Motorized falls under the DOT and not the Safety
    departments. 107-319 specifically states that the Electric Bicycle is NOT a
    motorized vehicle. By attempting to class anything with an "Engine "
    (notice the word there) with 2 or three wheels as a Motorized Bicycle can be
    misinterpreted (is is constantly by Law Enforcement) to encompass even the
    legal electric bicycle.

    One of the problems I have seen is that some of the "So called" Bicycle
    clubs just don't wish to share. Looking underneath, some aren't bicycle
    clubs at all; they are Lobbyists Organizations. When the first thing that
    pops up is "Send Money, it's Tax Deductable" beware, they may not be looking
    out for your best interest. Now, if they sort of leave that part out or
    it's fairly buried in their info then they will "Probably" a Bicycle Club.

    As for sharing, what is there to share? The way I see it, the more
    different types of Bicycles we have out there the more we can condition the
    4 wheel drivers into acceptance of all of us. Plus, it gives more targets
    with a higher chance of getting through (grin). Plus, we can all work
    together to get the badly needed bike paths.

    I used to think Bike Paths weren't that important. If there is a bike path
    on a busy road that I would have to be completely out of my everluvin mind
    to ride in the traffic then the bike path is very important if nothing else,
    my well being. If there is a Bike Path and the traffic is backed up, I can
    beat a car to a short destination on a Bike or arrive close enough behind
    him that I can park and lock the bike while He/She is parking the car and
    meet them at the front door. This is without going crazy with speed which
    would also be unsafe.

    Now, if I am riding an Electric Bicycle on the way to work, I will get there
    not needing a shower. Not to say that you won't be peddling, you will.
    It's best to help the motor get it up to cruise speed by pedal assisting.
    Or, if you are going up a hill, pedal, you may not make it otherwise or you
    will put enough drain on the battery you will be pedalling later anyway.

    I am in my late 50s with a bad right knee. If I don't ride a bike
    (pedalling) my knees start to get painful and I have trouble even climbing
    short stairs to my house. If I pedal too much the same starts to happen.
    The Electric Bike is a godsend for folks like me. I can pedal until my
    knees start troubling me then go electric giving the knees the rest they
    need and resume pedalling. Why would anyone wish to sit in front of a TV
    and pedal a stationary bike when you can do it outside and get enjoyment out
    of it. But pedaling for some when you are talking about a few miles a trip
    is not a real option. But we have to do it anyway which is less unhealthy
    than not doing it but can be detrimental, nonetheless. The Electric Bicycle
    is the answer.

    The problem is, the State of Colorado has such a stupid wording in it's laws
    governing "Motorized Bicycles". Even though it only talks about CCs and not
    Watts, requires you to be able to maintain 30mph, etc. many of the Law
    Enforcement takes that to mean either that the rider needs to be licensed
    and/or the vehicle must be registered. Or, it's consider an Electric Toy
    that cannot be operated on ANY public property and carries an automatic fine
    of $42.00. You might wish to read one of the stupidist laws written.

    Pertains to Motorized Bicycles, Electric Toy Vehicles and Neighborhood
    Electric Vehicles (must have 4 wheels)

    http://198.187.128.12/colorado/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-frame.htm&l=jump&iid=COCODE&d=42-2-103&sid=5d02bd72.1ee9a5ae.0.0#JD_42-2-103

    http://198.187.128.12/colorado/lpext.dll/Infobase4/6208f/62b24/62b26/62f72/630ce?f=hitlist&q=42-3-144&x=Advanced&opt=&skc=80000003000630CF&c=curr&gh=1&2.0#LPHit1

    http://198.187.128.12/colorado/lpext.dll/Infobase4/6208f/630d9/630db/631f8/6327a?f=hitlist&q=motorized%20toy&x=Advanced&opt=&skc=800000030006327B&c=curr&gh=1&2.0#LPHit1

    http://198.187.128.12/colorado/lpext.dll/Infobase4/6208f/630d9/630db/631f8/63296?f=hitlist&q=Neighborhood%20Electric&x=Advanced&opt=&skc=8000000300063297&c=curr&gh=1&2.0#LPHit1

    Or you can go to http://i70west.com/electricbicycle/index.html for the links
    if the above links are too long.

    Give this some thought. We really are in this together no matter how your
    Bicycle is powered.

  2. "Daryl Hunt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    One of the items that is close to me is the Electric Bicycle. Not
    confused with the Scooter, Moped or Motorcycle.

    The first thing we need to do is to define a "Bicycle". That's easy. The
    requirements are not done by a State since the Consumer Protection Safety
    Commission already has that on the law books.
    16 CFR Part 1512
    cpsc_bicycle_requirements

    All Bicyles must be built to these specification or they can't be imported
    or commercially manufactured as Bicycles. This is pretty cut and dried.
    So give it a read.

    Next, what is an electric bicycle. What makes it different than a
    Scooter, Moped or Motorcycle? Again, that is covered in a subsection of
    the same as what defines a Bicycle. It was ammended in August 2004.

    HR 727 Was passed by the House of Representatives
    S. 1156 Federal Law was passed by the US Senate which both of these caused
    the

    -mmendment to 16 CFR Part 1512 to Public Law which is now 107-319. While
    the house and senate bills happened after 107-319, they were a clear
    indictation to the States that the electric Bicycle was a legal
    "NON-Motorized" vehicle and was a Bicycle and not a Motor Vehicle. Many
    of the states were clamoring with some pretty cute wording to undermine
    this.

    My favorite is "Motorized Bicycle". Now that is just getting too cute
    with wording. Anything Motorized falls under the DOT and not the Safety
    departments. 107-319 specifically states that the Electric Bicycle is NOT
    a motorized vehicle. By attempting to class anything with an "Engine "
    (notice the word there) with 2 or three wheels as a Motorized Bicycle can
    be misinterpreted (is is constantly by Law Enforcement) to encompass even
    the legal electric bicycle.

    One of the problems I have seen is that some of the "So called" Bicycle
    clubs just don't wish to share. Looking underneath, some aren't bicycle
    clubs at all; they are Lobbyists Organizations. When the first thing that
    pops up is "Send Money, it's Tax Deductable" beware, they may not be
    looking out for your best interest. Now, if they sort of leave that part
    out or it's fairly buried in their info then they will "Probably" a
    Bicycle Club.

    As for sharing, what is there to share? The way I see it, the more
    different types of Bicycles we have out there the more we can condition
    the 4 wheel drivers into acceptance of all of us. Plus, it gives more
    targets with a higher chance of getting through (grin). Plus, we can all
    work together to get the badly needed bike paths.

    I used to think Bike Paths weren't that important. If there is a bike
    path on a busy road that I would have to be completely out of my everluvin
    mind to ride in the traffic then the bike path is very important if
    nothing else, my well being. If there is a Bike Path and the traffic is
    backed up, I can beat a car to a short destination on a Bike or arrive
    close enough behind him that I can park and lock the bike while He/She is
    parking the car and meet them at the front door. This is without going
    crazy with speed which would also be unsafe.

    Now, if I am riding an Electric Bicycle on the way to work, I will get
    there not needing a shower. Not to say that you won't be peddling, you
    will. It's best to help the motor get it up to cruise speed by pedal
    assisting. Or, if you are going up a hill, pedal, you may not make it
    otherwise or you will put enough drain on the battery you will be
    pedalling later anyway.

    I am in my late 50s with a bad right knee. If I don't ride a bike
    (pedalling) my knees start to get painful and I have trouble even climbing
    short stairs to my house. If I pedal too much the same starts to happen.
    The Electric Bike is a godsend for folks like me. I can pedal until my
    knees start troubling me then go electric giving the knees the rest they
    need and resume pedalling. Why would anyone wish to sit in front of a TV
    and pedal a stationary bike when you can do it outside and get enjoyment
    out of it. But pedaling for some when you are talking about a few miles a
    trip is not a real option. But we have to do it anyway which is less
    unhealthy than not doing it but can be detrimental, nonetheless. The
    Electric Bicycle is the answer.

    The problem is, the State of Colorado has such a stupid wording in it's
    laws governing "Motorized Bicycles". Even though it only talks about CCs
    and not Watts, requires you to be able to maintain 30mph, etc. many of the
    Law Enforcement takes that to mean either that the rider needs to be
    licensed and/or the vehicle must be registered. Or, it's consider an
    Electric Toy that cannot be operated on ANY public property and carries an
    automatic fine of $42.00. You might wish to read one of the stupidist
    laws written.

    Pertains to Motorized Bicycles, Electric Toy Vehicles and Neighborhood
    Electric Vehicles (must have 4 wheels)

    http://198.187.128.12/colorado/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-frame.htm&l=jump&iid=COCODE&d=42-2-103&sid=5d02bd72.1ee9a5ae.0.0#JD_42-2-103

    http://198.187.128.12/colorado/lpext.dll/Infobase4/6208f/62b24/62b26/62f72/630ce?f=hitlist&q=42-3-144&x=Advanced&opt=&skc=80000003000630CF&c=curr&gh=1&2.0#LPHit1

    http://198.187.128.12/colorado/lpext.dll/Infobase4/6208f/630d9/630db/631f8/6327a?f=hitlist&q=motorized%20toy&x=Advanced&opt=&skc=800000030006327B&c=curr&gh=1&2.0#LPHit1

    http://198.187.128.12/colorado/lpext.dll/Infobase4/6208f/630d9/630db/631f8/63296?f=hitlist&q=Neighborhood%20Electric&x=Advanced&opt=&skc=8000000300063297&c=curr&gh=1&2.0#LPHit1

    Or you can go to http://i70west.com/electricbicycle/index.html for the
    links if the above links are too long.

    Give this some thought. We really are in this together no matter how your
    Bicycle is powered.

    I don't really have a problem with electric bicycles in general. But when I
    last messed with them (quite a while ago) they weren't very good and some
    were simply junk.
    When I perused some more recent models, it looks a lot more promising. There
    is a electric assist model that looks good and I test rode it, and I was
    impressed with it, but I still have concerns about repairability though.
    Whether parts would be available if it broke.
    I think my main issue would be distance or range. I have to ride 23 miles
    one way for a commute and it has to look enough like a bicycle or they won't
    let me put it in my office so I can recharge the batteries. I have a number
    of hills that would suck down a battery pack more too. The second issue is
    being able to pedal the thing and have gears. Some of the electric bikes are
    like the old mopeds from years ago, the pedals are only there for looks.
    So far I can pedal all the way to work and back OK and faster, without
    electric assists, so I haven't persued it seriously yet.
    But there are some days, when you are sick, feel like [censored], or just don't
    feel like it, that maybe it would be nice to have an assist.

    I think the best setups so far are the hub motors built into the front wheel
    and a battery pack that looks like a rear trunk bag. If you pedal along at a
    leisurely pace you just about can't tell the person is using an electric
    bike. A police officer would have to look real close or be very
    knowledgeable about them to relaize you have an electric bike. 🙂
    Plus a bigger trunk bag means you can maybe run bigger batteries too. Using
    panniers maybe would keep the weight down low and make it more easy to
    handle.
    Thus it is very well camaflauged.

  3. Earl Bollinger said:

    I think the best setups so far are the hub motors built into the front wheel
    and a battery pack that looks like a rear trunk bag.

    I agree.... they make more sense to me

    But I have no real experience but they intrigue me

  4. "Earl Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Daryl Hunt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    One of the items that is close to me is the Electric Bicycle. Not
    confused with the Scooter, Moped or Motorcycle.
    Or you can go to http://i70west.com/electricbicycle/index.html for the
    links if the above links are too long.

    Give this some thought. We really are in this together no matter how
    your Bicycle is powered.

    I don't really have a problem with electric bicycles in general. But when
    I last messed with them (quite a while ago) they weren't very good and
    some were simply junk.
    When I perused some more recent models, it looks a lot more promising.
    There is a electric assist model that looks good and I test rode it, and I
    was impressed with it, but I still have concerns about repairability
    though. Whether parts would be available if it broke.

    Since the inhub motor was introduced, there is only two moving parts. The
    Wheel and the thum controller. You are talking about 4 or 5 parts only.
    The Thumb controller, electronic speed controller, wheel, battery pack and
    the wiring harness. All the rest is YOUR bike. These 5 items are addons
    that don't take away the Bike part.

    Quoted message said:

    I think my main issue would be distance or range. I have to ride 23 miles
    one way for a commute and it has to look enough like a bicycle or they
    won't let me put it in my office so I can recharge the batteries. I have a
    number of hills that would suck down a battery pack more too.

    Carry 2 battery packs. If you are 170lbs or lighter, you should have about
    a 12 to 15 mile range per pack.

    The second issue is

    Quoted message said:

    being able to pedal the thing and have gears. Some of the electric bikes
    are like the old mopeds from years ago, the pedals are only there for
    looks.
    So far I can pedal all the way to work and back OK and faster, without
    electric assists, so I haven't persued it seriously yet.

    You replace the front wheel with a low drag, freewheeling inhub wheel. All
    the functions are still there of the Bicycle. If you wish, just take your
    thumb off the controller and pedal normally.

    Quoted message said:

    But there are some days, when you are sick, feel like [censored], or just don't
    feel like it, that maybe it would be nice to have an assist.

    Same here.

    Quoted message said:


    I think the best setups so far are the hub motors built into the front
    wheel and a battery pack that looks like a rear trunk bag. If you pedal
    along at a leisurely pace you just about can't tell the person is using an
    electric bike. A police officer would have to look real close or be very
    knowledgeable about them to relaize you have an electric bike. 🙂
    Plus a bigger trunk bag means you can maybe run bigger batteries too.
    Using panniers maybe would keep the weight down low and make it more easy
    to handle.
    Thus it is very well camaflauged.

    It's a shame when you have to do all that just to excersise your Legal
    Rights as a Citizen.

  5. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Earl Bollinger said:

    I think the best setups so far are the hub motors built into the front
    wheel
    and a battery pack that looks like a rear trunk bag.

    I agree.... they make more sense to me

    But I have no real experience but they intrigue me

    It's national "Ride your bike to work" week. Not one single mention of
    Electric Bicycles on any of the news coverage. But, there was one electric
    car covered. All of us need to get on the News and ask why.

  6. Daryl Hunt wrote:

    <very long post snipped>

    Your post makes it fairly obvious you feel you have a valid complaint
    but it's difficult to judge its validity because the exact nature of
    that complaint isn't clear.
    Is your point that cycling clubs should welcome electric bike riders on
    their group rides? I don't know of any social (as opposed to racing)
    cycling club that would refuse to allow someone on an electric assisted
    bike tag along but if there are some that do, that's their prerogative
    just as it would be your prerogative to refuse riders on pedal powered
    bikes to join your electric bike club rides were you to form such a
    club. Or is your point that Colorado law is poorly written and is being
    interpreted incorrectly by your local police? Call the agency in
    question and talk to someone there. It could be they are
    misinterpreting the law. It could also be that the judges in your area
    have interpreted those laws in a liberal but commonsense way that
    includes your electric bike.

    Regards,
    Bob Hunt

  7. "Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Daryl Hunt wrote:

    <very long post snipped>

    Your post makes it fairly obvious you feel you have a valid complaint
    but it's difficult to judge its validity because the exact nature of
    that complaint isn't clear.
    Is your point that cycling clubs should welcome electric bike riders on
    their group rides?

    No, to stop fighting the Electric Bike's existance. I don't even ponder
    being accepted as an equal in a run for cyclists. But to lobby to prevent
    the electric bike should not be done.

    I don't know of any social (as opposed to racing)

    Quoted message said:

    cycling club that would refuse to allow someone on an electric assisted
    bike tag along but if there are some that do, that's their prerogative
    just as it would be your prerogative to refuse riders on pedal powered
    bikes to join your electric bike club rides were you to form such a
    club. Or is your point that Colorado law is poorly written and is being
    interpreted incorrectly by your local police? Call the agency in
    question and talk to someone there. It could be they are
    misinterpreting the law. It could also be that the judges in your area
    have interpreted those laws in a liberal but commonsense way that
    includes your electric bike.

    Oh, trust me. The next time one certain cop stops me I will insist on being
    ticketed or even jailed.

    As for attempting to be included in the rides for Human Powered Only Bikes,
    I doubt if there will be many Electric Bike's attempting to be included.

  8. Daryl Hunt said:

    It's national "Ride your bike to work" week. Not one single mention of
    Electric Bicycles on any of the news coverage. But, there was one electric
    car covered. All of us need to get on the News and ask why.

    Electrics are the fastest growing segment of the bicycle industry.
    Electrics are going to represent the largest percentage of bicycle
    sales over the next twenty years. Relax
    --
    zk

  9. Daryl Hunt said:

    Since the inhub motor was introduced, there is only two moving parts. The
    Wheel and the thum controller. You are talking about 4 or 5 parts only.
    The Thumb controller, electronic speed controller, wheel, battery pack and
    the wiring harness. All the rest is YOUR bike. These 5 items are addons
    that don't take away the Bike part.

    Yes.... I agree

    The above setup is much simpler and less parts!

  10. Bob said:

    ... Or is your point that Colorado law is poorly written and is being
    interpreted incorrectly by your local police? Call the agency in
    question and talk to someone there. It could be they are
    misinterpreting the law. It could also be that the judges in your area
    have interpreted those laws in a liberal but commonsense way that
    includes your electric bike.

    A Colorado judge interpreting the law in a Liberal manner? Perish the
    thought!
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

  11. The adaptive hub motor system delivers power with the touch of your
    thumb throttle. You can pedal on your own without using the motor or
    you can use the motor without pedaling. For the greatest range, you can
    pedal while using the motor and experience a ride unlike any you've
    ever had before. Combining rechargeable battery power motor technology
    you create a light weight electric bicycle classic using electric hub
    motor
    http://www.bicycles-electric-bikes.com/

    Daryl Hunt said:

    "Earl Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Daryl Hunt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    One of the items that is close to me is the Electric Bicycle. Not
    confused with the Scooter, Moped or Motorcycle.
    Or you can go to http://i70west.com/electricbicycle/index.html for the
    links if the above links are too long.

    Give this some thought. We really are in this together no matter how
    your Bicycle is powered.

    I don't really have a problem with electric bicycles in general. But when
    I last messed with them (quite a while ago) they weren't very good and
    some were simply junk.
    When I perused some more recent models, it looks a lot more promising.
    There is a electric assist model that looks good and I test rode it, and I
    was impressed with it, but I still have concerns about repairability
    though. Whether parts would be available if it broke.

    Since the inhub motor was introduced, there is only two moving parts. The
    Wheel and the thum controller. You are talking about 4 or 5 parts only.
    The Thumb controller, electronic speed controller, wheel, battery pack and
    the wiring harness. All the rest is YOUR bike. These 5 items are addons
    that don't take away the Bike part.

    Quoted message said:

    I think my main issue would be distance or range. I have to ride 23 miles
    one way for a commute and it has to look enough like a bicycle or they
    won't let me put it in my office so I can recharge the batteries. I have a
    number of hills that would suck down a battery pack more too.

    Carry 2 battery packs. If you are 170lbs or lighter, you should have about
    a 12 to 15 mile range per pack.

    The second issue is

    Quoted message said:

    being able to pedal the thing and have gears. Some of the electric bikes
    are like the old mopeds from years ago, the pedals are only there for
    looks.
    So far I can pedal all the way to work and back OK and faster, without
    electric assists, so I haven't persued it seriously yet.

    You replace the front wheel with a low drag, freewheeling inhub wheel. All
    the functions are still there of the Bicycle. If you wish, just take your
    thumb off the controller and pedal normally.

    Quoted message said:

    But there are some days, when you are sick, feel like [censored], or just don't
    feel like it, that maybe it would be nice to have an assist.

    Same here.

    Quoted message said:


    I think the best setups so far are the hub motors built into the front
    wheel and a battery pack that looks like a rear trunk bag. If you pedal
    along at a leisurely pace you just about can't tell the person is using an
    electric bike. A police officer would have to look real close or be very
    knowledgeable about them to relaize you have an electric bike. 🙂
    Plus a bigger trunk bag means you can maybe run bigger batteries too.
    Using panniers maybe would keep the weight down low and make it more easy
    to handle.
    Thus it is very well camaflauged.

    It's a shame when you have to do all that just to excersise your Legal
    Rights as a Citizen.

  12. Quoted message said:

    The adaptive hub motor system delivers power with the touch of your
    thumb throttle. You can pedal on your own without using the motor or
    you can use the motor without pedaling. For the greatest range, you can
    pedal while using the motor and experience a ride unlike any you've
    ever had before. Combining rechargeable battery power motor technology
    you create a light weight electric bicycle classic using electric hub
    motor
    http://www.bicycles-electric-bikes.com/

    If the batteries are on the rack, where do I put my actual bag?

  13. dgk said:
    Quoted message said:

    The adaptive hub motor system delivers power with the touch of your
    thumb throttle. You can pedal on your own without using the motor or
    you can use the motor without pedaling. For the greatest range, you can
    pedal while using the motor and experience a ride unlike any you've
    ever had before. Combining rechargeable battery power motor technology
    you create a light weight electric bicycle classic using electric hub
    motor
    http://www.bicycles-electric-bikes.com/

    If the batteries are on the rack, where do I put my actual bag?

    With the BionX the battery is fix to the lower bar frame. The
    motor-wheel is on the rear wheel. Now the question is where do you put
    the water bottle...

    http://www.bionx.ca/en/main/default/1.shtml

  14. the bag is for the batteries - battery in bag for aesthetics - the bag
    / batteries sit on the rack see photos

    http://www.bicycles-electric-bikes.com/photos_electric_bicycle.htm
    http://www.bicycles-electric-bikes.com/bicycle_photos_page_3.htm
    http://www.bicycles-electric-bikes.com/bicycle_photos_page_4.htm

    dgk said:
    Quoted message said:

    The adaptive hub motor system delivers power with the touch of your
    thumb throttle. You can pedal on your own without using the motor or
    you can use the motor without pedaling. For the greatest range, you can
    pedal while using the motor and experience a ride unlike any you've
    ever had before. Combining rechargeable battery power motor technology
    you create a light weight electric bicycle classic using electric hub
    motor
    http://www.bicycles-electric-bikes.com/

    If the batteries are on the rack, where do I put my actual bag?

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