Entering the queue at a stop sign

I think y'all ought to queue up jes like aevery american citizen. It commands respect and minimizes
contact with the same idiot again.

What's the damn hurry?

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Robin Hubert
I think y'all ought to queue up jes like aevery american citizen. It commands respect and minimizes
contact with the same idiot again.

What's the damn hurry?

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

I have a question regarding stop signs. In the case of something like this, do you stop, yield, or just pass right through the stop sign:
http://floppyllama.homestead.com/files/aaaa.jpg
It's a US road so the cars travel on the right side of the road, along with bikes.
Red is a stop sign, blue arrow is the direction you're going. Yellow is the split of the road.

The road is rarely traveled on, as it just passes by a residential area along side a freeway. I see most riders coast through it like it doesn't exist, but there were two cops on sunday handing out tickets (I happen to be a proud owner of one) apparently due to a few accidents (although as long as the cyclist stays inside the bike lane, it's the fault of the car for hitting it). Besides the casual sunday riders I have yet to see a single cyclist even take note of the intersection. Honestly, I feel that it's more dangerous to stop in the bike lane since no cyclist I can think of expects you to stop. Your thoughts on this?

bigfloppyllama email hidden from said:

I have a question regarding stop signs. In the case of something like this, do you stop, yield, or
just pass right through the stop sign: floppyllama.homestead.comaaaa.jpgOpen ↗ ....

Quoted message said:

.... Your thoughts on this?

Shoot the stop sign.

--
home.sport.rr.comcuthuluOpen ↗ human rights = peace TAILFINS!! ... click ...
1:22:47 AM 29 July 2003

In article <[email hidden]>, bigfloppyllama

Quoted message said:

Honestly, I feel that it's more dangerous to stop in the bike lane since no cyclist I can think of
expects you to stop. Your thoughts on this?

Do the hand signal, stop, and avoid getting a ticket.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

bigfloppyllama said:

I have a question regarding stop signs. In the case of something like this, do you stop, yield, or
just pass right through the stop sign: floppyllama.homestead.comaaaa.jpgOpen ↗ It's a US
road so the cars travel on the right side of the road, along with bikes. Red is a stop sign, blue
arrow is the direction you're going. Yellow is the split of the road.

I'd blow that stop sign. There's no reason for a bicycle to stop there.
--
To reply by e-mail, be polite. Rudeness will get you nowhere.

bigfloppyllama usenet- said:

I have a question regarding stop signs. In the case of something like this, do you stop, yield, or
just pass right through the stop sign: floppyllama.homestead.comaaaa.jpgOpen ↗ It's a US
road so the cars travel on the right side of the road, along with bikes. Red is a stop sign, blue
arrow is the direction you're going. Yellow is the split of the road.

along side a freeway. I see most riders coast through it like it doesn't

<snip>

Quoted message said:

a single cyclist even take note of the intersection. Honestly, I feel that it's more dangerous to
stop in the bike lane since no cyclist I can think of expects you to stop. Your thoughts on this?

I originally stopped in this situation, but no longer have the balls to stop in the face of that
danger. Additionally, I like not having to lose my intertia...but mainly for fear of bicycle
collision.

Quoted message said:

--

Quoted message said:

--------------------------<

Posted via cyclingforums.com cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.comOpen ↗

--
Rick Onanian

should be more aware of your surroundings. You should already know if cyclists are behind you who
might make stopping dangerous. If there are cars waiting at a stop sign, stop lawfully. If there's
nobody around, roll through carefully.

Robert

bigfloppyllama <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have a question regarding stop signs. In the case of something like this, do you stop, yield, or
just pass right through the stop sign: floppyllama.homestead.comaaaa.jpgOpen ↗ It's a US
road so the cars travel on the right side of the road, along with bikes. Red is a stop sign, blue
arrow is the direction you're going. Yellow is the split of the road.

The road is rarely traveled on, as it just passes by a residential area along side a freeway. I
see most riders coast through it like it doesn't exist, but there were two cops on sunday handing
out tickets (I happen to be a proud owner of one) apparently due to a few accidents (although as
long as the cyclist stays inside the bike lane, it's the fault of the car for hitting it). Besides
the casual sunday riders I have yet to see a single cyclist even take note of the intersection.
Honestly, I feel that it's more dangerous to stop in the bike lane since no cyclist I can think of
expects you to stop. Your thoughts on this?

Do any pedestrians cross the intersection? If so its good to stop! Also if a bicycle is turning left
from the cross street he/she would most likely be entering the bike lane, so it would be a source of
conflict if you do not stop. (plus cars making wide turns, ya its their fault but you don't want to
be hit by one rgardless) The turning cyclist should see you but at an all way stop will not be
anticipating you travelling straight through.

Signal that you are stopping before you stop so that riders behind you can anticipate this. Its
probably okay from a safety standpoint just to yield rather than stop but you also want to be sure
not to get a ticket.

Since these are stop signs I think that stopping should be required at a T. But I also think that at
signalled T-intersections exemptions should be made that a cyclist can proceed straight through
after stopping and making sure all is clear. (similar to right turns on reds for all vehicles)

I have nearly been hit while riding a couple of times turning left at an intersection with the right
of way (green light) where a cyclist blows a red light at a T, and also as a pedestrian nearly hit
by cyclists blowing the red at the T. So you cannot assume that it is perfectly okay to not stop at
T intersections.

Tanya

In article <[email hidden]>, Tanya Quinn

Quoted message said:

Do any pedestrians cross the intersection? If so its good to stop! Also if a bicycle is turning
left from the cross street he/she would most likely be entering the bike lane, so it would be a
source of conflict if you do not stop. (plus cars making wide turns, ya its their fault but you
don't want to be hit by one rgardless) The turning cyclist should see you but at an all way stop
will not be anticipating you travelling straight through.

Might also want to be careful if you're in the bike lane passing a long line of cars on the right,
as they may not expect you there; someone could open a door, for example.--b.

In article said:

Rick Onanian said:

I originally stopped in this situation, but no longer have the balls to stop in the face of that
danger.

I'm a little lost. Where's the danger in the illustrated situation?

There could be conflict if a cyclists blows through out-of-turn, and a car simultaneously turns left
from the cross street. The previous-previous poster (bigfloppyllama) mentions there had already been
accidents there; presumably that's why the enforcement.

So, there's also the "danger" of being stopped by the cops and getting a ticket.

Quoted message said:

Getting hit from behind by another cyclist?

I hope cyclists aren't /that/ blind or unprepared!

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

Rick Onanian said:

I originally stopped in this situation, but no longer have the balls to stop in the face of
that danger.

I'm a little lost. Where's the danger in the illustrated situation?

There could be conflict if a cyclists blows through out-of-turn, and a car simultaneously turns
left from the cross street. The previous-previous poster (bigfloppyllama) mentions there had
already been accidents there; presumably that's why the enforcement.

So, there's also the "danger" of being stopped by the cops and getting a ticket.

Quoted message said:

Getting hit from behind by another cyclist?

I hope cyclists aren't /that/ blind or unprepared!

I was so blind/unpreared today that, 3 blocks from work on my 15 mile commute, I was making a turn
and braked when I detected an approaching car from the right. I braked with my front as I usually do
and met a slickened manhole cover. Bike's ok, I lost skin.

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Tom Keats

BIn article said:

Rick Onanian said:

I originally stopped in this situation, but no longer have the balls to stop in the face of that
danger.

I'm a little lost. Where's the danger in the illustrated situation?

There could be conflict if a cyclists blows through out-of-turn, and a car simultaneously turns left
from the cross street. The previous-previous poster (bigfloppyllama) mentions there had already been
accidents there; presumably that's why the enforcement.

So, there's also the "danger" of being stopped by the cops and getting a ticket.

Quoted message said:

Getting hit from behind by another cyclist?

I hope cyclists aren't /that/ blind or unprepared!

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca [/B]

If that were the case, the car would be at fault (provided the bike is in the bike lane) California law states:

21209. (a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle in a bicycle lane
established on a roadway pursuant to Section 21207 except as follows:

(1) To park where parking is permitted.
(2) To enter or leave the roadway.
(3) To prepare for a turn within a distance of 200 feet from the
intersection.

Section 3 would make it seem like a car turning left at said intersection could enter the bicycle lane, but it actually referrs to right hand turns when the bicycle lane and traffic lane converge. So, technically I *should* be under no danger running the sign. From riding the route often I do know that cars do frequently cross into the lane. However, if I notice a car at these types of intersections I do usually stop.

Besides the two intesections like the one I pointed out I stop, queue up and go when it's my turn, but it just seems dumb to make cyclists succumb to signs that were put in to prevent cars from colliding, not bikes.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Robin Hubert"

Quoted message said:

I was so blind/unpreared today that, 3 blocks from work on my 15 mile commute, I was making a turn
and braked when I detected an approaching car from the right. I braked with my front as I usually
do and met a slickened manhole cover. Bike's ok, I lost skin.

Ouch. Wish I could upload you a rum & coke for painkiller. Actually, I wish I could upload you a
highball-sized B-52 in an Old Fashioned glass, with a vanilla bean swizzle ... but I can't afford
one of those right now, myself. Did you go straight down? I hate when that happens; it happens so
fast. On the positive side, as you say, the bike's okay. And at least there wasn't a tailgating
rider to stack on you, and possibly run over your chainstay.

We've got these waterworks bronze plates/covers imbedded in the streets, I guess over where valves
go. Those things can really sneak up on ya, 'cuz they're so small. They've caught me out a couple of
times. We also used to have really slick white crosswalk paint that got me a few times while on
foot, out in the rain. Fortunately, the city has changed its paint recipe since then.

Hope you heal quickly,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

Quoted message said:

We've got these waterworks bronze plates/covers imbedded in the streets, I guess over where valves
go. Those things can really sneak up on ya, 'cuz they're so small. They've caught me out a couple
of times. We also used to have really slick white crosswalk paint that got me a few times while on
foot, out in the rain. Fortunately, the city has changed its paint recipe since then.

We've got a subway, and I've got a new commute (work moved). The subway has big grates over it, I'm
figuring that they are air exhaust thingies. Anyway, I never really noticed them before.

When I say big, I mean across the whole lane, like 12 feet square.

Their openings aren't big enough to trap a bicycle wheel, but I know they are going to be slicker
than owl snot in a fresh rain, and really bad news next winter. I'm still working out the
coexistence details, but the one at 21st and M streets looks bad because I have to hang a left
just after it.

If it ain't Scylla it's Charybdis.

Good features of the new commute include better parking and much easier access to coffee, bad
features are much heavier traffic on the optimal route and many more red lights. My knee is getting
used to the more frequent accelerations.

Amazing how we adapt, I should have this route under control in a couple of years.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

In article <[email hidden]>, bigfloppyllama

Quoted message said:

Besides the two intesections like the one I pointed out I stop, queue up and go when it's my turn,
but it just seems dumb to make cyclists succumb to signs that were put in to prevent cars from
colliding, not bikes.

Well, maybe they were put there to prevent /vehicles/ from colliding. And some drivers sure seem to
have lousy aims.

But I'm not out to browbeat ya. If you can truly, confidently pull it off without getting clobbered,
by all means go for it, if you don't mind risking getting a ticket. Your call.

There's a stop sign here that I regularly blow through. It's not at an intersection; it's where
some vestigal, paved-over, abandoned RR tracks once crossed a street. I figure the sign is still
there for cars, because there's still a bit of a bump there, and cars might bottom-out if they hit
it at speed.

I'm not fond of arbitrary & useless rules either. But, I guess there's no harm in really thinking
about them before deciding they're truly arbitrary & useless.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

In article said:

When I say big, I mean across the whole lane, like 12 feet square.

So much for bunny-hopping.

Quoted message said:

Their openings aren't big enough to trap a bicycle wheel, but I know they are going to be slicker
than owl snot in a fresh rain,

^^^^^^^^

Claire's delightful way with words lives on. I'm gonna have to use "scoogying" again, in her honour.
I'm still not clear as to whether scoogying is scooter-propelling one's self with both feet while
straddling the saddle, or doing so with one foot, after partially dismounting but still standing on
one pedal. For now, I'm opting for the latter.

Quoted message said:

and really bad news next winter. I'm still working out the coexistence details, but the one at
21st and M streets looks bad because I have to hang a left just after it.

If it ain't Scylla it's Charybdis.

I'm gonna have to pull a Fabrizio, and ask if those are STDs. I've got an old Emerson, Lake & Palmer
album, with names of tunes thatsound like that, on the back of the cover.

Quoted message said:

Good features of the new commute include better parking and much easier access to coffee

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If the coffee's really good, there ya go! It's worth it! Especially if you can get decent growlies
to go with it, like cinnamon rolls with sour cream icing.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

In article <[email hidden]>, bigfloppyllama

Quoted message said:

Section 3 would make it seem like a car turning left at said intersection could enter the bicycle
lane, but it actually referrs to right hand turns when the bicycle lane and traffic lane converge.
So, technically I *should* be under no danger running the sign.

So if you run the stop sign, simultaneously with a left-turning car driver drifting into the bike
lane, then, congratulations, you were both in the wrong.

We could find plenty of other situations where it's clearly safe for one party to break the rules of
the road as long as everyone else is following them. There's a good reason for this--it means that
in many situations, a crash won't happen unless both parties involved make simultaneous mistakes. A
little redundancy here is a good thing.

--Bruce Fields

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Robin Hubert"

Quoted message said:

I was so blind/unpreared today that, 3 blocks from work on my 15 mile commute, I was making a
turn and braked when I detected an approaching

car

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

from the right. I braked with my front as I usually do and met a

slickened

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

manhole cover. Bike's ok, I lost skin.

Ouch. Wish I could upload you a rum & coke for painkiller. Actually, I wish I could upload you a
highball-sized B-52 in an Old Fashioned glass, with a vanilla bean swizzle ... but I can't afford
one of those right now, myself. Did you go straight down? I hate when that happens; it happens so
fast. On the positive side, as you say, the bike's okay. And at least there wasn't a tailgating
rider to stack on you, and possibly run over your chainstay.

We've got these waterworks bronze plates/covers imbedded in the streets, I guess over where valves
go. Those things can really sneak up on ya, 'cuz they're so small. They've caught me out a couple
of times. We also used to have really slick white crosswalk paint that got me a few times while on
foot, out in the rain. Fortunately, the city has changed its paint recipe since then.

Hope you heal quickly,

Thanks for the well-wishes, Tom. In addition to the skinned elbow and left hip, I am nursing my
first ever thrombosed external hemorrhoid. I'm really freaking [censored] about that (signs that I am
getting old). I'm hoping that, while causing no pain, riding will help resolve the clot. I can't
imagine being off the bike for weeks.

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Robin Hubert"

Quoted message said:

I was so blind/unpreared today that, 3 blocks from work on my 15 mile commute, I was making a
turn and braked when I detected an approaching

car

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

from the right. I braked with my front as I usually do and met a

slickened

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

manhole cover. Bike's ok, I lost skin.

Ouch. Wish I could upload you a rum & coke for painkiller. Actually, I wish I could upload you a
highball-sized B-52 in an Old Fashioned glass, with a vanilla bean swizzle ... but I can't
afford one of those right now, myself. Did you go straight down? I hate when that happens; it
happens so fast. On the positive side, as you say, the bike's okay. And at least there wasn't a
tailgating rider to stack on you, and possibly run over your chainstay.

We've got these waterworks bronze plates/covers imbedded in the streets, I guess over where
valves go. Those things can really sneak up on ya, 'cuz they're so small. They've caught me
out a couple of times. We also used to have really slick white crosswalk paint that got me a
few times while on foot, out in the rain. Fortunately, the city has changed its paint recipe
since then.

Hope you heal quickly,

Thanks for the well-wishes, Tom. In addition to the skinned elbow and left hip, I am nursing my
first ever thrombosed external hemorrhoid. I'm really freaking [censored] about that (signs that I am
getting old). I'm hoping that, while causing no pain, riding will help resolve the clot. I can't
imagine being off the bike for weeks.

I stayed off the bike for about a week while the pain went away, and then was back to a normal
riding schedule. Probably could have gotten back on sooner if I really wanted to, but didn't want to
risk aggravating it. Don't forget the Preparation-H to prevent further irritation while riding.

--
David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

When I say big, I mean across the whole lane, like 12 feet square.

So much for bunny-hopping.

Quoted message said:

Their openings aren't big enough to trap a bicycle wheel, but I know they are going to be
slicker than owl snot in a fresh rain,

^^^^^^^^

Claire's delightful way with words lives on. I'm gonna have to use "scoogying" again, in her
honour. I'm still not clear as to whether scoogying is scooter-propelling one's self with both
feet while straddling the saddle, or doing so with one foot, after partially dismounting but still
standing on one pedal. For now, I'm opting for the latter.

Quoted message said:

and really bad news next winter. I'm still working out the coexistence details, but the one at
21st and M streets looks bad because I have to hang a left just after it.

If it ain't Scylla it's Charybdis.

I'm gonna have to pull a Fabrizio, and ask if those are STDs. I've got an old Emerson, Lake &
Palmer album, with names of tunes thatsound like that, on the back of the cover.

LOL! You'll have better luck with a book on Greek mythology (hint!).

....

--
David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.