Euskatel Pays Basque

limerickman said:

The Basque country isn't only part of Spain.

.

However the "Basque Autonomous Region" is.

DiabloScott said:

However the "Basque Autonomous Region" is.

Indeed it is and it applies to the Basque territory within the Spanish soverign territory only.

However the Basque country comprises both French and Spanish territory.

I said:

musette said:

Here's another possibility. Could it be that the Pays Basque, Spain are a sponsor of Euskatel-Euskadi, although not a name sponsor? That say, like any other sponsor, it would have its name on the jersey of the team?

Here are some photos (not from the TdF) involving the "Pays Basque" reference.

http://www.fundacioneuskadi.com/asp/fotosEquipo.asp?temporada=2005

Hence, the "Pays Basque" may be more than a declaration of emotive affiliation of the team, but be the more practical embodiment on the jersey of one of the non-name sponsors?

Which attracted this response...

limerickman said:

I suggest that you read and try to understand WBT's/Diablo's explanation - rather than trying to justify the error-ridden waffle you posted earlier.

To which I naturally respond:

I suggest you look at this cyclingnews article:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/tour05/?id=features/team_sponsors

"Euskaltel-Euskadi
The almost all-Basque squad (Unai Extebarria is Venezuelan of Basque descent) is unsurprisingly sponsored by a Basque telecommunications company (Euskaltel) and the Basque regional government (Euskadi), which roughly translates to basque in the Basque language. The team is a flagship of the Basque community, with the community taking a financial interest in the team ...."

Euskadi means the Basque regional government translated very roughly into English. Therefore, the "Pays Basque" on the jerseys of the Euskatel-EUSKADI team was a reference to EUSKADI -- the second largest sponsor of the Euskatel-Eusadi team and a name (albeat not primary name) sponsor! :p

Therefore, not surprisingly, I was right with my second line of argument that "Pays Basque" refers to a sponsor. :p 😉 (Even though I am not Spanish and my spouse is not Spanish)

This also confirms I was right in saying that the "Pays Basque" reference on the Eusakatel jersey was, obviously, referring to a part of Spain. If I say that "A is B in the context of Question C", that does not mean that "A equals B in the context of Questions other than Question C". Fundamental logic. 😎

The above illustrates my ability to reason, from the prominent placement of the "Pays Basque" reference on the jersey, that the reference was to a sponsor. Even though I am not Spanish and did not know Euskadi was a regional government like some Spanish speakers (or at least those that follow normal news or have some education) that have lived on Spain should have.

I bet "Euskadi" is on the Vuelta jersey because everybody in Spain knows what that refers to, whereas "Euskadi" is less known outside of Spain.

musette said:

The above illustrates my ability to reason, from the prominent placement of the "Pays Basque" reference on the jersey, that the reference was to a sponsor. Even though I am not Spanish and did not know Euskadi was a regional government like some Spanish speakers (or at least those that follow normal news or have some education) that have lived on Spain should have.

.

The Basque Country in the largest sense consists of three distinct regions: The three Spanish provinces that make up the Autonomous Region, the Spanish province of Navarra, and the three French provinices that border on Navarra. Euskadi is a political name invented in the 1890's and it can mean Basque Fatherland, Basque State, or just "Basqueness". Usually though, Euskadi refers just to the Autonomous Region and Euskal Herria means the whole package.

A Basque-ophile would normally consider the French Basque provinces, the Basque autonomous region, and the Navarra region all part of Euskal Herria / Pays Basque, but a non-Basque French person may use the "Pays Basque" term and be thinking only of the French provinces, a Spanish person would normally not be referring to the French provinces when he/she says "Pais Vasco", and Navarreños like Indurain consider themselves separate from but allied both politically and culturally with the other two regions.

So I don't know how they the team decide which shorts to wear, but using PAYS BASQUE instead of EUSKADI appears to be both a concession to French speakers and an attempt to promote the entire region rather than just the CAV.

DiabloScott said:

The three Spanish provinces that make up the Autonomous Region, the Spanish province of Navarra, and the three French provinices that border on Navarra.

That was my understanding too.
(my cousin played rugby in the Basque region - French Basque country - and he told me the immediate area on both sides of the Pyrennees is Basque country be it Spanish Basque or French Basque, and they regard themselves as one people.)

DiabloScott said:

A Basque-ophile would normally consider the French Basque provinces, the Basque autonomous region, and the Navarra region all part of Euskal Herria / Pays Basque, ............

you're losing her, Diablo

DiabloScott said:

So I don't know how they the team decide which shorts to wear, but using PAYS BASQUE instead of EUSKADI appears to be both a concession to French speakers and an attempt to promote the entire region rather than just the CAV.

and that's the crux here.
if the EE team were only interested in promoting Spanish Basque logo's they'd
have Eusakadi but the fact that Pays Basque as part of the logo too, they're promoting the entire Basque (French and Spanish) identity.

But listen, you've lost her - she doesn't know the difference between Switzerland and France !

Nice post limerickman... I'd say thank you ball boys, thank you linesmen... game set match to Mr. Limerickman ! 😎

limerickman said:

That was my understanding too.
(my cousin played rugby in the Basque region - French Basque country - and he told me the immediate area on both sides of the Pyrennees is Basque country be it Spanish Basque or French Basque, and they regard themselves as one people.)

you're losing her, Diablo

and that's the crux here.
if the EE team were only interested in promoting Spanish Basque logo's they'd
have Eusakadi but the fact that Pays Basque as part of the logo too, they're promoting the entire Basque (French and Spanish) identity.

But listen, you've lost her - she doesn't know the difference between Switzerland and France !

"Pays Basque" was, according to the original poster, used in the Tour de France -- in France. Therefore, a reference to the Spanish sponsor of the regional government of Eusaki would have been translated into French as Pays Basque -- referring to Spain! 😉

Hi, good to see all of this discussion about Euskatel, as they are our 'adopted' team - understanding the Basque region is fraught with complexities, but WBT has provided by far the best overview of this wonderful region and its people.
Anyway does anyone have any view on whether the Euskatel team performances this year have been below par. Their TDF showing was really poor, especially in the mountains, and they seem to have struggled (as a team) to make an impression on La Vuelta (although Samuel made some improvements in the latter stages),
Cheers, Mombee.

WBT United 1 - Mussette Girls Blouses 0

- Maybe the Euskatel struggle from the fact that they can only chose there riders from one place ?

- In all honestly there is performance is not that bad because they were never really the level of ProTour status. It was only the exploits of Mayo and Zabadier that took them to the ProTour entry for there efforts in 2003 and earlier 2004. The Comunidad Valenciana team rode a fantastic Vuelta winning the teams competition and Carlos Garcia Quesada should be riding other big races not provincial Spanish races.

- There was talk of Mayo looking for another team after the Vuelta... not sure who would want him as he has an abundance of heath and physiological issues. Sad really as when he is good he is really special but when he is not so good he is bad….

Mombee said:

Hi, good to see all of this discussion about Euskatel, as they are our 'adopted' team - understanding the Basque region is fraught with complexities, but WBT has provided by far the best overview of this wonderful region and its people.
Anyway does anyone have any view on whether the Euskatel team performances this year have been below par. Their TDF showing was really poor, especially in the mountains, and they seem to have struggled (as a team) to make an impression on La Vuelta (although Samuel made some improvements in the latter stages),
Cheers, Mombee.

Mombee said:

Hi, good to see all of this discussion about Euskatel, as they are our 'adopted' team - understanding the Basque region is fraught with complexities, but WBT has provided by far the best overview of this wonderful region and its people.
Anyway does anyone have any view on whether the Euskatel team performances this year have been below par. Their TDF showing was really poor, especially in the mountains, and they seem to have struggled (as a team) to make an impression on La Vuelta (although Samuel made some improvements in the latter stages),
Cheers, Mombee.

The fluctuating form of EE is curious.
Wasn't the EE team doctor a couple of years ago, busted for allegedly
doping ?

I always admired EE's ability as climbers : Laiseka had a storming season a couple of years back as did Mayo.
I also note that Indurains former Reynolds team mate Julian Gorospe is Directeur Sportif.

limerickman said:

The fluctuating form of EE is curious.
Wasn't the EE team doctor a couple of years ago, busted for allegedly
doping ?

Yes just prior top the 2004 Tour de France David Miller cited him as the doctor who supplied him EPO.... this was in addtion to one of there riders failing a health test (50%+) just prior to the 2004 Tour........ then all of sudden Mayo and co have a shocker on the cobbles and some more....... dots, the, join in any order you like ! 🙂

whiteboytrash said:

Yes just prior top the 2004 Tour de France David Miller cited him as the doctor who supplied him EPO.... this was in addtion to one of there riders failing a health test (50%+) just prior to the 2004 Tour........ then all of sudden Mayo and co have a shocker on the cobbles and some more....... dots, the, join in any order you like ! 🙂

you're correct - it was Millar who blamed the EE doctor.

And we all trust what David Millar says, right?

The Basques speak a language virtually unique in origin compared to Spamish, French and other romance languages. It is old, funky, and derives from their complete isolation in the mountains.

The Basques believe, like many people across this fime earth, that their country belongs to them and not some governmant formed without their permission. So not only the regions listed in Spain but most of the French Pyrenees they believe belong to them, not the French...hence why so many orange flags on the Pyreneean stages in the TdF.

There are of course Basque separatists, like in Ireland, and even a terrorist group, ETA...also painted across the roads in the Pyrenees.

But I believe that Mayo et al probably have another 3 letter acronym that they believe in, not ETA, but EPO. One week he is beating Lance by a healthy margin in the Mont Ventoux TT (along with Tyler Hamilton) and then completely bombs out in the Tour in the next month, then has mononucleosis--hmm just like David Millar--and now back problems and cant find his form.

Weird.

Well I know Millar is a nutter or was that gaumont😉 .......either way the truth came out when millar got caught and he told how he got epo and that was from euskatels doctor lopez..........!

Yeah let's go back to dauphine 2004.......he totally destroyed the whole field, including LA! People standing on the side of mont ventoux were screaming that he was LA's succesor.....

After that it became very quiet and the story was that he was mentally tired after stage 3 cobblestones. Oke I can understand that to some point, but he was totally gone after that like many pro's.......(I could suggest something, but I rather not.....😉 )

It's obvious Mayo was on something very very special during dauphine libere.....with that form no doubt he would've won the 2004 TDF!

Is this a story ressiot? 😄

hombredesubaru said:

And we all trust what David Millar says, right?

The Basques speak a language virtually unique in origin compared to Spamish, French and other romance languages. It is old, funky, and derives from their complete isolation in the mountains.

The Basques believe, like many people across this fime earth, that their country belongs to them and not some governmant formed without their permission. So not only the regions listed in Spain but most of the French Pyrenees they believe belong to them, not the French...hence why so many orange flags on the Pyreneean stages in the TdF.

There are of course Basque separatists, like in Ireland, and even a terrorist group, ETA...also painted across the roads in the Pyrenees.

But I believe that Mayo et al probably have another 3 letter acronym that they believe in, not ETA, but EPO. One week he is beating Lance by a healthy margin in the Mont Ventoux TT (along with Tyler Hamilton) and then completely bombs out in the Tour in the next month, then has mononucleosis--hmm just like David Millar--and now back problems and cant find his form.

Weird.

[font=Verdana]I read an article in a Spanish newspaper about Mayo just after the DL where he said that he couldn't even walk to the supermarket anymore without being mobbed by about 487 chics...... he did go 'playboy' like Miller did and the social side was just as important as the riding side.... if not more.... just as well EPO doesn't have the same side effects to your 'member' as steroids do... :p [/font]

MJtje said:

Well I know Millar is a nutter or was that gaumont😉 .......either way the truth came out when millar got caught and he told how he got epo and that was from euskatels doctor lopez..........!

Yeah let's go back to dauphine 2004.......he totally destroyed the whole field, including LA! People standing on the side of mont ventoux were screaming that he was LA's succesor.....

After that it became very quiet and the story was that he was mentally tired after stage 3 cobblestones. Oke I can understand that to some point, but he was totally gone after that like many pro's.......(I could suggest something, but I rather not.....😉 )

It's obvious Mayo was on something very very special during dauphine libere.....with that form no doubt he would've won the 2004 TDF!

Is this a story ressiot? 😄

MJtje said:

Well I know Millar is a nutter or was that gaumont😉 .......either way the truth came out when millar got caught and he told how he got epo and that was from euskatels doctor lopez..........! 😄

Gaumont said that Miller was afraid of needles so he used to snort his gear ! He said he caught Miller several times snorting amphetamines (ephrex?) before races...

Vassuer Armstrong’s former teammate got ringed in as well by Gaumont but was able to prove his innocence….. poor old Miller tried the same but leaving a vile of EPO in your bookcase is not such a good idea…….! Oh that’s right it was a reminder of place where he didn’t want to go again ! LOL !

If you read the latest ProCycling magazine Vassuer has a few choice words to say about Armstrong…. Supposedly Lance stop speaking to him and never gave him a reason for leaving him out of the 2001 Tour squad…. Vassuer also was never paid his bonus for helping Lance win in 2000……

Dont forget the common spanish expression "Pais Vasco" for Euzkadi