Ever Ride in City Traffic?

Many moons ago, I commuted into NYC on an upright (over the GWB into
midtown). At the risk of getting flamed, I would not ride a recumbent
in NYC. The reasons are many: acceleration, jumping curbs and potholes,
visibility, etc. Maybe someone here will disagree with me and set me
straight, but that is my 2 cents worth.

NYC XYZ said:

NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan? I did bike
messenging for almost two months one summer -- only job where I wish I
had more time in the day for (second hardest after Army infantry, no
joke!) -- and now that I'm curious about recumbents, I'm trying to
picture myself in all kinds of situations.

<snip>

I've never ridden in NYC. As far as major cities go, I've only ridden
in Atlanta, GA, Birmingham, AL, and Paris, France.

Paris was easily the scariest. Also, it was my first time riding on the
streets of a major city ever, so let's throw that one out.

Atlanta and B'ham: There's no way these towns even compare to the
ruggedness required for NYC. And I can't even imagine riding a
recumbent in those places. So NYC just seems out of the question to me.

--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
http://www.underthecouch.org
..:you may want to fix my email
address before you send anything:.

"Paul Hobson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paris was easily the scariest. Also, it was my first time riding on the
streets of a major city ever, so let's throw that one out.

Yet I loved cycling in Paris - the Parisian rush hour was so easy! Yes, it
was busy, but the motorists had such an excellent attitude to cyclists,
giving me loads of room. As well as me cycling, my husband and our then 14
year-old son cycled said Parisian rush hour, and we all thought the same. At
the hotel where we were staying was an American (Texan, but no, not that
one) who was also cycling and he too thought cycling in Paris was fun. Are
we talking the same Paris? ;-)

Cheers, helen s

I ride in NYC traffic and I see recumbents from time to time,
especially with the critical mass groups. Even with the 8 foot flags,
the fear I have is cars can't see that low.

I was off the bike for five years and then popped into a shop and test
rode a carbon fiber bianchi through Times Square in rush hour, I was
hooked.

People ask me, but I explain you never forget how to ride, it's just
like riding a bicycle, you never forget!

How is that for clever?

NYC XYZ said:

NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan? I did bike
messenging for almost two months one summer -- only job where I wish I
had more time in the day for (second hardest after Army infantry, no
joke!) -- and now that I'm curious about recumbents, I'm trying to
picture myself in all kinds of situations.

Most of the questions you ask don't have specific answers, because
'bents are not a single functional class of cycle, just a general
description of the seating layout. What goes for a BikeE will not
necessarily go for an Anthrotech touring trike, and what goes for that
probably has little to do with what will go for an M5 Lowracer.

Quoted message said:

How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?

Most have some sort of frame/wheel interface where you do it same as you
would a DF. But not all of them.

Quoted message said:

Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?

As above, /very/ much implementation dependent. A compact city 'bent
like the HPVel Spirit, pretty good, a lowracer or a long wheelbase
tourer will suck at it Bigtime.

Quoted message said:

Does it brake just like an upright?

Most of them brake considerably better. With a lower centre of mass
there's far less tendency to disappear over the bars, so usually a skid
is the worst you can manage. Being usually pricier, 'bents are
typically aimed at a market who appreciate more expensive things, like
hydraulic disc brakes, and that can be a factor too.

Quoted message said:

Is it harder to go real slow?

On a bike, as a rule of thumb the lower the seat is the harder really
slow travel is. On a trike, you can do an indefinite track stand if
you want to.

Quoted message said:

Ever run red lights with them?

Same as on an upwrong, something that is possible, but I don't do,
'cause it's Very Dumb.

Quoted message said:

How would they fare on the sidewalk?

Same as on an upwrong, depends on the other population and not something
I go in for.

Quoted message said:

How well do they go over curbs and speed bumps?

You typically can't hop the front wheel, so going up kerbs is a question
of wheel size and suspension. Going down them isn't really a problem
IME. Speed bumps will also vary with wheel size and suspension, but you
won't go over the bars if you hit a nasty one unexpectedly.

Quoted message said:

Ever get mugged on one? (Serious! Twice I had to jet away from some
miscreants in broad daylight in the parks.)

I haven't been...

Quoted message said:

And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??

Oh. Mine doesn't. No particular reason they should be squeakier than
any other bike AFAICT.

Quoted message said:

And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

For /some/, yes. But probably a typical upwrong crouch will be worse
for rather more. If your back problem is made worse by a recumbent
position then something /really/ upright (maybe a Pedersen) would be a
possibility in the other direction worth considering.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan?

I've lived in and around NYC all my life. When I was riding into Manhattan
on a regular basis it was always on an upright. I would be willing to do the
occasional ride or even commute but I wouldn't want to spend my days zipping
through midtown traffic on a 'bent. For bent riding I'd limit myself to the
extreme west side, extreme east side, and Central Park.

I manage to [censored] enough drivers in the 'burbs by taking up a lane of
traffic on my trike. I could only imaging how the Manhattanites would find
it.

Quoted message said:

How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?

I use a lock that is shaped like a large pair of handcuffs and I use a
supplimental cable to go through the wheels. Still I wouldn't lock up my
bike or trike in NYC where it wouldn't be in my constant view.

Quoted message said:

Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?
Does it brake just like an upright?
Is it harder to go real slow?
Ever run red lights with them?
How would they fare on the sidewalk? How well do they go over curbs
and speed bumps?

I think that for this type of riding an upright is going to be better.

Quoted message said:

And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

That is what I've heard although I don't have back problems. I ride them for
comfort. If I were working on my bike in NYC I doubt it would be a 'bent.

There have recently been a lot of Pedicabs in NYC and they are almost all
upright. I think you want the kind of power and control afforded by an
upright when you are trying to get through traffic. Bikes are not well
respected by either pedestrians or drivers in NYC.

NYC XYZ said:

How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?

U-lock around the frame or steering riser

Quoted message said:

Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?

Depends on the bike. The Speedmachine I use as my #1 commuting bike (in
central London) is not very good at this; the Kingcycle I ran for many years
was almost as handy as an upright.

Quoted message said:

Does it brake just like an upright?

Better.

Quoted message said:

Is it harder to go real slow?

Not with practice, though track-stands are out.

Quoted message said:

Ever run red lights with them?

No. Nor on an upright bike or in a motorcar.

Quoted message said:

How would they fare on the sidewalk? How well do they go over curbs
and speed bumps?

I neither know nor care, coz I ride on the road.

Quoted message said:

Ever get mugged on one? (Serious! Twice I had to jet away from some
miscreants in broad daylight in the parks.)

No.

Quoted message said:

And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??

No.

Quoted message said:

And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

Can't say I've noticed...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Apparently Guy has now got a Brompton. I'd never have guessed.

On 17 Jul 2005 17:33:54 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?

I use a Master Street Cuff round the main tube behind the steerer.

Quoted message said:

Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?

Not particularly, a higher bike, maybe with USS, is probably better
for that than a sports bike like mine.

Quoted message said:

Does it brake just like an upright?

Much better :-)

Quoted message said:

Is it harder to go real slow?

Not really.

Quoted message said:

Ever run red lights with them?

I imagine it's not different than running them on a wedgie, but no I
don't (on either)

Quoted message said:

How would they fare on the sidewalk? How well do they go over curbs
and speed bumps?

I have no idea, I have never felt the slightest urge to find out!

Quoted message said:

Ever get mugged on one? (Serious! Twice I had to jet away from some
miscreants in broad daylight in the parks.)

No. I've never met anyone who could keep up for long :-)

Quoted message said:

And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??

LOL! So do any bikes if you neglect them! Mine runs pretty much
silently

Quoted message said:

And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

Allegedly.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"Let’s have a moment of silence for all those Americans who are stuck
in traffic on their way to the gym to ride the stationary bicycle."
- Earl Blumenauer

I'll go out on a limb here and volunteer the name of a very nice gentleman
who runs a messenger service in downtown Manhattan that you could talk to
and possible test ride one of his several recumbents.
Shelly Mossy [email hidden]
I borrowed his EZ1 last August for the day
Any *head first* style vehicle is out of the question for this person no
matter what the reason.
LWB oss works well in the tight confines of NYC, SF, Seattle, L.A., Indy
and Portland
the only big cities I have had the chance to ride.
Speedy

NYC XYZ said:

NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan? I did bike
messenging for almost two months one summer -- only job where I wish I
had more time in the day for (second hardest after Army infantry, no
joke!) -- and now that I'm curious about recumbents, I'm trying to
picture myself in all kinds of situations.

How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?

Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?

Does it brake just like an upright?

Is it harder to go real slow?

Ever run red lights with them?

How would they fare on the sidewalk? How well do they go over curbs
and speed bumps?

Ever get mugged on one? (Serious! Twice I had to jet away from some
miscreants in broad daylight in the parks.)

And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??

And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

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I never owned a recumbent, not because of any adversity to the design,
but because I wouldnt like riding that low in traffic. Even with a flag,
you are even more invisible, and in NYC, this would be like lying doun
in the middle of the street. IMO

- -

"May you have the winds at your back,
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I never owned a recumbent, not because of any adversity to the design,
but because I wouldnt like riding that low in traffic. Even with a flag,
you are even more invisible, and in NYC, this would be like lying doun
in the middle of the street. IMO

What I've found with my 'bent is that even though I'm lower, I'm a lot more
visible due to the "What the F*** Is That???" factor at work :-)

Cheers, helen s

In article <[email hidden]>, NYC

XYZ said:

NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan? I did bike
messenging for almost two months one summer -- only job where I wish I
had more time in the day for (second hardest after Army infantry, no
joke!) -- and now that I'm curious about recumbents, I'm trying to
picture myself in all kinds of situations.

There is a documentary called "Pedal" about the messengers in NYC. An
odd group of people to be sure. (crackheads, one legged riders, jesus
preachers) I recommend it to anyone that rides a bike. One fellow in
the movie rides a BikeE for his messenger work.
Some ride track bikes. Which to me seems completely crazy because these
track bikes typically don't have brakes. So if you think riding a bent
in NYC is crazy, there are far crazier bikers on the road than a bent
rider.

wafflycat said:

"Paul Hobson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paris was easily the scariest. Also, it was my first time riding on
the streets of a major city ever, so let's throw that one out.

Yet I loved cycling in Paris - the Parisian rush hour was so easy! Yes,
it was busy, but the motorists had such an excellent attitude to
cyclists, giving me loads of room. As well as me cycling, my husband and
our then 14 year-old son cycled said Parisian rush hour, and we all
thought the same. At the hotel where we were staying was an American
(Texan, but no, not that one) who was also cycling and he too thought
cycling in Paris was fun. Are we talking the same Paris? ;-)

Cheers, helen s

I'm sure I'd love Paris now. But riding from wherever the hell I was to
Le Louvre was scary as hell for a 17 yr-old kid who had never ridden a
road bike before and had zero experience riding on streets (my hometown
has a series of golfcart/bike/ped. paths that connect the whole town).

Looking back on it...I'd eat all up now 🙂

--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
http://www.underthecouch.org
..:you may want to fix my email
address before you send anything:.

"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan?

I've lived in and around NYC all my life. When I was riding into Manhattan
on a regular basis it was always on an upright. I would be willing to do
the occasional ride or even commute but I wouldn't want to spend my days
zipping through midtown traffic on a 'bent. For bent riding I'd limit
myself to the extreme west side, extreme east side, and Central Park.

I am not sure about either the extreme west side or east side either.
Perhaps at some times of the day, but not at other times of the day. Central
Park would work, but how to get you and your bike to the Park would be the
problem.
[...]

Quoted message said:

There have recently been a lot of Pedicabs in NYC and they are almost all
upright. I think you want the kind of power and control afforded by an
upright when you are trying to get through traffic. Bikes are not well
respected by either pedestrians or drivers in NYC.

The very best way to get around New York City is via the subway and then to
walk. New York is a walker's paradise. I used to walk from one end of
Manhattan to the other end on weekends many times and I never got bored. I
truly do not think there is another city in the US that is as interesting or
as exciting to walk about as is New York.

When I lived in Brooklyn Heights, I use to take the subway for about 10
cents (this was back in the 1960's) and travel to a jumping off point in the
City. From my jumping off point I would walk and walk until total exhaustion
set in. It never even occurred to me at the time to get a bicycle. In fact,
I don't even remember ever seeing any bikes, but maybe that was because I
wasn't looking.

Now that I am coming to the end of my life I am getting back to walking
again. Unfortunately, I now have to do it in my small town here in the Upper
Midwest. It is not New York of course, but still, walking is walking and you
always feel better after having done it.

We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking. If I still lived in
New York, I would want to walk and would not even consider a bike.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking.

:-) Oh, I doubt that! If we were designed for walking, we'd have run
out of ingenuity after we invented shoes!

In any case, I sure feel like _I_ was designed for biking.

And as an aside, I've absolutely proven I was _not_ designed for
running, swimming or (heaven forbid) golf!

- Frank Krygowski

Edward Dolan said:

We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking.

You related to V@ndem@n?!?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking.

:-) Oh, I doubt that! If we were designed for walking, we'd have run
out of ingenuity after we invented shoes!

In any case, I sure feel like _I_ was designed for biking.

And as an aside, I've absolutely proven I was _not_ designed for
running, swimming or (heaven forbid) golf!

- Frank Krygowski

Sorry Frank, but if you belong to the same species as I do then you were
designed for walking too. New York is just chock full of institutions of
higher education. Find one and take a course in anthropology about how we
humans evolved. Such a course is generally labeled Physical Anthropology
101.

Walking is the human means of locomotion par excellence. It is only in the
past few thousand years that humans have been able to invent other ways of
getting around. However, our anatomy and physiology is the same as it has
always been. It was and is designed for walking, not biking.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking.

:-) Oh, I doubt that! If we were designed for walking, we'd have run
out of ingenuity after we invented shoes!

In any case, I sure feel like _I_ was designed for biking.

And as an aside, I've absolutely proven I was _not_ designed for
running, swimming or (heaven forbid) golf!

- Frank Krygowski

Sorry Frank, but if you belong to the same species as I do then you were
designed for walking too. New York is just chock full of institutions of
higher education. Find one and take a course in anthropology about how we
humans evolved. Such a course is generally labeled Physical Anthropology
101.

Walking is the human means of locomotion par excellence. It is only in the
past few thousand years that humans have been able to invent other ways of
getting around. However, our anatomy and physiology is the same as it has
always been. It was and is designed for walking, not biking.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Gee I wonder why they say the human spine was not designed for upright
locomotion, thus the prevalence of back strains and injuries? <g>

jj

Edward Dolan said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking.

:-) Oh, I doubt that! If we were designed for walking, we'd have run
out of ingenuity after we invented shoes!

In any case, I sure feel like _I_ was designed for biking.

And as an aside, I've absolutely proven I was _not_ designed for
running, swimming or (heaven forbid) golf!

- Frank Krygowski

Sorry Frank, but if you belong to the same species as I do then you were
designed for walking too. New York is just chock full of institutions of
higher education. Find one and take a course in anthropology about how we
humans evolved. Such a course is generally labeled Physical Anthropology
101.

Walking is the human means of locomotion par excellence. It is only in the
past few thousand years that humans have been able to invent other ways of
getting around. However, our anatomy and physiology is the same as it has
always been. It was and is designed for walking, not biking.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Gee, I see _some_ humans were designed without a sense of humor!

- Frank Krygowski