Explosive experience with folding tyre - typical?

Yeah, all folders that get "creases" can do wierd stuff if they don't
get seated right. Some folks like to partially inflate and leave in the
garage overnight and get round.

Andrew W said:

Although an experienced cyclist this is my first encounter with a
folding tyre.

Vredenstein Stila.

After inflation I bounced the wheel on the floor - very loud bang (in
partial enclosed space of my garage sounded like a small canon going
off), resulting in large ragged tear about 4 inches long on in the
inner tube. Blow out obviously.

Second time around I parttially inflated the tyre before very carefully
checking the seating of the bead. In several places it was below the
"hook" on the rim, and needed massaging into place higher up the rim.
I have only a few miles on it since, but so far, so good.

At length my query.

Are all folding tyres fussy to mount like this one, or is this
experience exceptional?

I have never had similar experiences with wire bead tyres, despite
using many and varied types of variable quality over many years.

I only bought these tyres as they were on special offer as I dont'
really need to fold them (I can easily fold a wire beaded tyre to fit
in a panier - as a tourist that is all I need).

Andrew Webster

what rim is it?

On 25 Sep 2005 11:26:51 -0700, "Andrew W" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Are all folding tyres fussy to mount like this one, or is this
experience exceptional?

I have never had similar experiences with wire bead tyres, despite
using many and varied types of variable quality over many years.

I don't know about folding tyres, but I've had this sort of experience
with some wire bead tyres.

Jasper

maxo said:

Yeah, all folders that get "creases" can do wierd stuff if they don't
get seated right. Some folks like to partially inflate and leave in the
garage overnight and get round.

That's nice, but doesn't really help you if you want to use the folding
tyre as a 'spare' to replace a blown/worn through tyre on the road.

Jasper

"Andrew W" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Although an experienced cyclist this is my first encounter with a
folding tyre.

Vredenstein Stila.

After inflation I bounced the wheel on the floor - very loud bang (in
partial enclosed space of my garage sounded like a small canon going
off), resulting in large ragged tear about 4 inches long on in the
inner tube. Blow out obviously.

Second time around I parttially inflated the tyre before very carefully
checking the seating of the bead. In several places it was below the
"hook" on the rim, and needed massaging into place higher up the rim.
I have only a few miles on it since, but so far, so good.

At length my query.

Are all folding tyres fussy to mount like this one, or is this
experience exceptional?

I have never had similar experiences with wire bead tyres, despite
using many and varied types of variable quality over many years.

I only bought these tyres as they were on special offer as I dont'
really need to fold them (I can easily fold a wire beaded tyre to fit
in a panier - as a tourist that is all I need).

Andrew Webster

I've had this happen with a wire bead tire on a non hook bead rim, it's a
little embarassing.

I suspect that it takes a little more care to properly seat a folding tire
than a non folding tire on the rim. I happen to like folding tires because
they generally weigh less than the equivalent wire bead version, but I don't
know how many people agree with me.
--
mark

Andrew W said:

Are all folding tyres fussy to mount like this one, or is this
experience exceptional?

Checking the seating of the bead is a good practice.

Quoted message said:

I have never had similar experiences with wire bead tyres, despite
using many and varied types of variable quality over many years.

I have. Not often, but it has happened.

I recently got a supply of kevlar-beaded tires. I had one blowout
experience with them -- probably, as with yours, a poorly seated bead, but
other than that they are fine. Get used to them. More and more tires
will be coming out with kevlar, as opposed to wire, bead.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored
_`\(,_ | by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo
(_)/ (_) | Emerson

Quoted message said:

After inflation I bounced the wheel on the floor - very loud bang (in
partial enclosed space of my garage sounded like a small canon going
off), resulting in large ragged tear about 4 inches long on in the
inner tube. Blow out obviously.

Second time around I parttially inflated the tyre before very carefully
checking the seating of the bead. In several places it was below the
"hook" on the rim, and needed massaging into place higher up the rim.
I have only a few miles on it since, but so far, so good.

Most likely the tires are fine but the installation isn't quite there yet.
Are you keeping the tube slightly inflated when installing the tire? That
can help keep it from getting pinched between the tire casing and the rim,
which causes it to blow off when inflated. But, as you've noted, you've also
got to make sure the bead is seated properly. This is best checked with
everything mounted and maybe 20psi in the tube, so it takes shape but
doesn't have enough pressure to do anything nasty. Check the tire all they
way around (on each side), making sure the tire bead is neither high nor low
anywhere. It shouldn't be too tough to push into place or pull out. And
always, make sure the tube isn't trapped between tire & rim before putting
much pressure into it.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

... and something else that Mike probably would have mentioned if he had
more time:

Double check the bead at 20-30 psi by spinning the wheel while holding an
axle end in each hand. Sight over the the top of the tire as it spins and
look for any irregularity. Are there what appears to be humps, or curves
in
the tread or the tire? Does it seem to pull to one side at any point?
Assuming your wheel was reasonably true, this test indicates a problem
with
the bead seating on the rim. With all the colours on sidewalls these days
it
is sometimes tough to tell whether the bead is sitting just right when the
wheel is still. At this inflation you can probably resolve the issue with
hand strength alone. If not, I deflate and start again.

Blake

Blake: Easier yet to check for that in the frame, where you can simply use
your finger as a reference for high & low spots on the tire. As you note,
trying to catch what the tire's doing visually, with all the colors etc.,
can be tough. Plus, the weight of the valve & section of the rim where it's
joined tend to cause the wheel to move up & down in your hands a bit.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"B Paton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ckMZe.127
Check the tire all they

Quoted message said:

way around (on each side), making sure the tire bead is neither high nor

low

Quoted message said:

anywhere. It shouldn't be too tough to push into place or pull out. And
always, make sure the tube isn't trapped between tire & rim before
putting
much pressure into it.

... and something else that Mike probably would have mentioned if he had
more time:

Double check the bead at 20-30 psi by spinning the wheel while holding an
axle end in each hand. Sight over the the top of the tire as it spins and
look for any irregularity. Are there what appears to be humps, or curves
in
the tread or the tire? Does it seem to pull to one side at any point?
Assuming your wheel was reasonably true, this test indicates a problem
with
the bead seating on the rim. With all the colours on sidewalls these days
it
is sometimes tough to tell whether the bead is sitting just right when the
wheel is still. At this inflation you can probably resolve the issue with
hand strength alone. If not, I deflate and start again.

Blake

Thanks for all this advice, I have now got 100 miles or so on this
tyre and am satisfied that it is mounted correctly.

I won't be buying any more folding tyres through. I can't see any
benifits, only drawbacks.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

... and something else that Mike probably would have mentioned if he had
more time:

Double check the bead at 20-30 psi by spinning the wheel while holding an
axle end in each hand. Sight over the the top of the tire as it spins and
look for any irregularity. Are there what appears to be humps, or curves
in
the tread or the tire? Does it seem to pull to one side at any point?
Assuming your wheel was reasonably true, this test indicates a problem
with
the bead seating on the rim. With all the colours on sidewalls these days
it
is sometimes tough to tell whether the bead is sitting just right when the
wheel is still. At this inflation you can probably resolve the issue with
hand strength alone. If not, I deflate and start again.

Blake

Blake: Easier yet to check for that in the frame, where you can simply use
your finger as a reference for high & low spots on the tire. As you note,
trying to catch what the tire's doing visually, with all the colors etc.,
can be tough. Plus, the weight of the valve & section of the rim where it's
joined tend to cause the wheel to move up & down in your hands a bit.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"B Paton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ckMZe.127
Check the tire all they

Quoted message said:

way around (on each side), making sure the tire bead is neither high nor

low

Quoted message said:

anywhere. It shouldn't be too tough to push into place or pull out. And
always, make sure the tube isn't trapped between tire & rim before
putting
much pressure into it.

... and something else that Mike probably would have mentioned if he had
more time:

Double check the bead at 20-30 psi by spinning the wheel while holding an
axle end in each hand. Sight over the the top of the tire as it spins and
look for any irregularity. Are there what appears to be humps, or curves
in
the tread or the tire? Does it seem to pull to one side at any point?
Assuming your wheel was reasonably true, this test indicates a problem
with
the bead seating on the rim. With all the colours on sidewalls these days
it
is sometimes tough to tell whether the bead is sitting just right when the
wheel is still. At this inflation you can probably resolve the issue with
hand strength alone. If not, I deflate and start again.

Blake

Quoted message said:

Thanks for all this advice, I have now got 100 miles or so on this
tyre and am satisfied that it is mounted correctly.

I won't be buying any more folding tyres through. I can't see any
benifits, only drawbacks.

The benefit is that, for any given weight of tire, a folding version will
probably be stronger and last longer. What's not to like? :>😉

In other words, if you've got 250 grams to play with and use a folding bead,
that gives you another 30 grams, maybe more, that you can use for tread or
casing. There is no reduction in strength whatsoever due to the use of a
folding kevlar bead.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Andrew W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks for all this advice, I have now got 100 miles or so on this
tyre and am satisfied that it is mounted correctly.

I won't be buying any more folding tyres through. I can't see any
benifits, only drawbacks.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

... and something else that Mike probably would have mentioned if he
had
more time:

Double check the bead at 20-30 psi by spinning the wheel while holding
an
axle end in each hand. Sight over the the top of the tire as it spins
and
look for any irregularity. Are there what appears to be humps, or
curves
in
the tread or the tire? Does it seem to pull to one side at any point?
Assuming your wheel was reasonably true, this test indicates a problem
with
the bead seating on the rim. With all the colours on sidewalls these
days
it
is sometimes tough to tell whether the bead is sitting just right when
the
wheel is still. At this inflation you can probably resolve the issue
with
hand strength alone. If not, I deflate and start again.

Blake

Blake: Easier yet to check for that in the frame, where you can simply
use
your finger as a reference for high & low spots on the tire. As you note,
trying to catch what the tire's doing visually, with all the colors etc.,
can be tough. Plus, the weight of the valve & section of the rim where
it's
joined tend to cause the wheel to move up & down in your hands a bit.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"B Paton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:ckMZe.127
Check the tire all they
> way around (on each side), making sure the tire bead is neither high
> nor
low
> anywhere. It shouldn't be too tough to push into place or pull out.
> And
> always, make sure the tube isn't trapped between tire & rim before
> putting
> much pressure into it.

... and something else that Mike probably would have mentioned if he
had
more time:

Double check the bead at 20-30 psi by spinning the wheel while holding
an
axle end in each hand. Sight over the the top of the tire as it spins
and
look for any irregularity. Are there what appears to be humps, or
curves
in
the tread or the tire? Does it seem to pull to one side at any point?
Assuming your wheel was reasonably true, this test indicates a problem
with
the bead seating on the rim. With all the colours on sidewalls these
days
it
is sometimes tough to tell whether the bead is sitting just right when
the
wheel is still. At this inflation you can probably resolve the issue
with
hand strength alone. If not, I deflate and start again.

Blake

Good point.

[This followup was posted to rec.bicycles.tech and a copy was sent to the
cited author.]

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Good point.

I'm late to the thread, so I don't know if anybody has mentioned that
some rims seem to be a bit smaller than others and that some tires are a
bit looser. You can get combinations that are either very tight (hard to
mount but very easy to seat accurately) or very loose (easy to mount but
difficult to get evenly seated). In my limited experience, this size
issue is more important than the bead type (wire or kevlar).

Bruce G

"Bruce Graham" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

I'm late to the thread, so I don't know if anybody has mentioned that
some rims seem to be a bit smaller than others and that some tires are a
bit looser. You can get combinations that are either very tight (hard to
mount but very easy to seat accurately) or very loose (easy to mount but
difficult to get evenly seated). In my limited experience, this size
issue is more important than the bead type (wire or kevlar).

Bruce G

IME, cheaper rims seem to run a bit smaller for a looser fit, while more
expensive rims seem to run a little larger or truer to size. My hypothesis
is that the cheaper rims are made smaller so that the tires can be installed
quickly and easily, for lower labor cost when the bike is being built. Any
bicycle industry people care to comment on this, one way or the other?
--
mark

I assume that in an automated fabrication process installation of tires
on the rims is not dependent on the rim size or rim/tire combination as
this is done by a machine?

"Martin Borsje" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

I assume that in an automated fabrication process installation of tires
on the rims is not dependent on the rim size or rim/tire combination as
this is done by a machine?

If the tire installation is done by a machine (is it?) I would still expect
the installation process to be faster with a smaller rim or looser rim/tire
interface. If the tire installation is done by low wage menial labor the
process would certainly be faster. There is still a fair bit of manual labor
involved in bicycle manufacture, AIUI this is why so many low priced
bicycles are built in countries where wages are extremely low and then
shipped to North America and Europe for sale.
--
mark

mark said:

If the tire installation is done by a machine (is it?) I would still expect
the installation process to be faster with a smaller rim or looser rim/tire
interface. If the tire installation is done by low wage menial labor the
process would certainly be faster. There is still a fair bit of manual labor
involved in bicycle manufacture, AIUI this is why so many low priced
bicycles are built in countries where wages are extremely low and then
shipped to North America and Europe for sale.

I have this image in my mind from a bike factory somewhere that was
mounting the tires, pretty much as car tyres get mounted: put the wheel
horizontally so it can spin, insert the lever that's fixed to the bench,
spin one time around, tyre is mounted. At the end of the wheel
building/truing assembly line.

Jasper