I have been using Bontrager Race Lite wheels, 20 spokes on the front. (I am well aware that, for my weight, that is not enough spokes. I use other wheels but like these and want to keep using them.) And now at about 12,000 miles, the aluminum alloy nipples are failing. Two so far. At the break, the metal looks grainy and crystalline.
Anyone else have this problem? Does it make sense to replace all of the nipples? Is it a bad set of nipples or is it to be expected? Are brass nipples more durable?
I have been using Bontrager Race Lite wheels, 20 spokes on the front. (I am well aware that, for my weight, that is not enough spokes. I use other wheels but like these and want to keep using them.) And now at about 12,000 miles, the aluminum alloy nipples are failing. Two so far. At the break, the metal looks grainy and crystalline.
Anyone else have this problem? Does it make sense to replace all of the nipples? Is it a bad set of nipples or is it to be expected? Are brass nipples more durable?
It all depends on the alloy and manufacturing process. Stay away from anodized nipples and go for a name brand.
The other issue is using short spokes. You need to make sure the spokes are at least flush with the cross slot in the nipple head when the spokes are fully tensioned. And these nipples should only be used on butted spokes. Its fatigue that causes the failure and butted spokes have a lower stress fluctuation than straight gauge.
12,000 miles is a considerable life for these nipples. Replace all once one breaks.
I have been using Bontrager Race Lite wheels, 20 spokes on the front. (I am well aware that, for my weight, that is not enough spokes. I use other wheels but like these and want to keep using them.) And now at about 12,000 miles, the aluminum alloy nipples are failing. Two so far. At the break, the metal looks grainy and crystalline.
Anyone else have this problem? Does it make sense to replace all of the nipples? Is it a bad set of nipples or is it to be expected? Are brass nipples more durable?
It all depends on the alloy and manufacturing process. Stay away from anodized nipples and go for a name brand.
The other issue is using short spokes. You need to make sure the spokes are at least flush with the cross slot in the nipple head when the spokes are fully tensioned. And these nipples should only be used on butted spokes. Its fatigue that causes the failure and butted spokes have a lower stress fluctuation than straight gauge.
12,000 miles is a considerable life for these nipples. Replace all once one breaks.
a friend brought by a wheelsmith wheel with 4 broken alloy nipples the other weekend. first glance seems to indicate there's some kind of intergranular failure going on there. not much evidence of fatigue. if i get a chance this weekend, i'll take a closer look.
i think you'll find that most alloy nipps are anodized - it's just that some have been stained, others not. anodizing is necessary to prevent corrosion, pitting, etc on most higher strength aluminum alloys. it's an astonishingly frequent [and incorrect] assumption on r.b.t that anything "silver" is not anodized, ma2 rims being one of the most notable examples.
I have been using Bontrager Race Lite wheels, 20 spokes on the front. (I am well aware that, for my weight, that is not enough spokes. I use other wheels but like these and want to keep using them.) And now at about 12,000 miles, the aluminum alloy nipples are failing. Two so far. At the break, the metal looks grainy and crystalline.
Anyone else have this problem? Does it make sense to replace all of the nipples? Is it a bad set of nipples or is it to be expected? Are brass nipples more durable?
brass work fine - no reason not to use them unless you're concerned about weight. they're often preferred by those that need to adjust their wheels constantly because their threads sieze less.
regarding alloy nipps, be very concious of brand. sapim & d.t. are working well for me. i have some also that look grainy & crystalline. that's not fatigue. if the rim eyelets are brass, not stainless, there may be some copper interaction going on. for the time being, if you're sticking with alloy, re-nipp with one of the brands above & keep riding. if any get stuck on disassembly, use a butane cigarette lighter to heat the nipp for a while. often frees it without causing heat damage to the other components.
Anodization of nipples can be a tricky process, given each nipple must be connected to the electrical source. Rims are easy.
I use aluminum nipples on eyeletless rims to avert corrosion. Brass nipples corrode the rim but aluminum do not. The only problem is the galling but I stopped this with a custom dry film lubricant. I also use it on the threads and have yet to have a siezed nipple.
it's an astonishingly frequent [and incorrect] assumption on r.b.t that anything "silver" is not anodized, ma2 rims being one of the most notable examples.
I know this is just flame bait, but it's also inaccurate, the distinction is made between cosmetic anodizing and hard anodizing.
brass work fine - no reason not to use them unless you're concerned about weight. they're often preferred by those that need to adjust their wheels constantly because their threads sieze less.
On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 15:44:59 GMT, "Alfred Ryder" <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
I have been using Bontrager Race Lite wheels, 20 spokes on the front. (I am well aware that, for my weight, that is not enough spokes. I use other wheels but like these and want to keep using them.) And now at about 12,000 miles, the aluminum alloy nipples are failing. Two so far. At the break, the metal looks grainy and crystalline.
Anyone else have this problem? Does it make sense to replace all of the nipples? Is it a bad set of nipples or is it to be expected? Are brass nipples more durable?
Yes, brass is more durable. Replace them all.
-- Typoes are a feature, not a bug. Some gardening required to reply via email. Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
brass work fine - no reason not to use them unless you're concerned about weight. they're often preferred by those that need to adjust their wheels constantly because their threads sieze less.
Who need to "adjust" their wheels constantly?
People who constantly bash them into things. -- Typoes are a feature, not a bug. Some gardening required to reply via email. Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
brass [spoke nipples] work fine - no reason not to use them unless you're concerned about weight.
.... concerned to the point of obsession, that is. Aluminum nipples will only save you approximately 50 grams (for two 36 spoke wheels). That's less than 1/4 cup of water.
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
I have been using Bontrager Race Lite wheels, 20 spokes on the front. (I am well aware that, for my weight, that is not enough spokes. I use other wheels but like these and want to keep using them.) And now at about 12,000 miles, the aluminum alloy nipples are failing. Two so far. At the break, the metal looks grainy and crystalline. Anyone else have this problem? Does it make sense to replace all of the nipples? Is it a bad set of nipples or is it to be expected? Are brass nipples more durable?
Yes, brass is more durable. How did the nipples fail? Did the heads pop off? Do your rims have eyelets? If not, then chances are that the sharp shoulders on the rim holes cut into the nipples. This caused a stress riser and the nipples eventually failed. The rest of the nipples should follow the first two. Replacing with brass would be a good idea. -------------- Alex
I have been using Bontrager Race Lite wheels, 20 spokes on the front. (I
am
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
well aware that, for my weight, that is not enough spokes. I use other wheels but like these and want to keep using them.) And now at about
12,000
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
miles, the aluminum alloy nipples are failing. Two so far. At the break,
the
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
metal looks grainy and crystalline. Anyone else have this problem? Does it make sense to replace all of the nipples? Is it a bad set of nipples or is it to be expected? Are brass nipples more durable?
"Alex Rodriguez" wrote
Quoted message said:
Yes, brass is more durable. How did the nipples fail? Did the heads pop off? Do your rims have eyelets? If not, then chances are that the sharp shoulders on the rim holes cut into the nipples. This caused a stress
riser
Quoted message said:
and the nipples eventually failed. The rest of the nipples should follow the first two. Replacing with brass would be a good idea.
Thanks to you and the others who have given good advice. I had never heard of nipples failing.
To answer your question, the heads are popping off. The rims do have eyelets.
They seem to go quietly. When one goes, the wheel wobbles slightly. My fear is that, with only 20 spokes on the front wheel, if two were to go, something more drastic would happen. So replacing them all seems prudent.
"Alfred Ryder" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
I have been using Bontrager Race Lite wheels, 20 spokes on the front. (I am well aware that, for my weight, that is not enough spokes. I use other wheels but like these and want to keep using them.) And now at about 12,000 miles, the aluminum alloy nipples are failing. Two so far. At the break, the metal looks grainy and crystalline.
Anyone else have this problem? Does it make sense to replace all of the nipples? Is it a bad set of nipples or is it to be expected? Are brass nipples more durable?
These wheels do not have aluminum nipples. I have a set and they are brass.
"Alfred Ryder" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
I have been using Bontrager Race Lite wheels, 20 spokes on the front. (I am well aware that, for my weight, that is not enough spokes. I use other wheels but like these and want to keep using them.) And now at about 12,000 miles, the aluminum alloy nipples are failing. Two so far. At the break, the metal looks grainy and crystalline.
Anyone else have this problem? Does it make sense to replace all of the nipples? Is it a bad set of nipples or is it to be expected? Are brass nipples more durable?
These wheels do not have aluminum nipples. I have a set and they are brass.
On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 20:14:26 GMT, "Alfred Ryder" <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
To answer your question, the heads are popping off. The rims do have eyelets.
They seem to go quietly. When one goes, the wheel wobbles slightly. My fear is that, with only 20 spokes on the front wheel, if two were to go, something more drastic would happen. So replacing them all seems prudent.
Your concern is well-founded. On some bikes, even one spoke failure takes a 20-spoke rim far enough out of true that the tire jams against the fork leg or chainstay on every rotation, sometimes heavily.
-- Typoes are a feature, not a bug. Some gardening required to reply via email. Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
I have been using Bontrager Race Lite wheels, 20 spokes on the front. (I
am
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
well aware that, for my weight, that is not enough spokes. I use other wheels but like these and want to keep using them.) And now at about
12,000
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
miles, the aluminum alloy nipples are failing. Two so far. At the break,
the
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
metal looks grainy and crystalline.
Anyone else have this problem? Does it make sense to replace all of the nipples? Is it a bad set of nipples or is it to be expected? Are brass nipples more durable?
"Neal" replied
Quoted message said:
These wheels do not have aluminum nipples. I have a set and they are
That explains a lot. I bought the wheels on eBay from a guy who races. He probably changed the nipples from brass to aluminum to save a few grams. I had trouble believing that Bontrager would sell a wheel that would last only 12,000 miles.
So now my course of action is clear, thanks to you and the others who responded. Replace them all with brass ones.
Anodization of nipples can be a tricky process, given each nipple must be connected to the electrical source. Rims are easy.
I use aluminum nipples on eyeletless rims to avert corrosion. Brass nipples corrode the rim but aluminum do not. The only problem is the galling but I stopped this with a custom dry film lubricant. I also use it on the threads and have yet to have a siezed nipple.
smart move. not only do you get galling, you can also get complete siezure with what is essentially diffusion welding.
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 00:28:49 GMT, "Alfred Ryder" <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
"Alfred Ryder" wrote
Quoted message said:
I have been using Bontrager Race Lite wheels, 20 spokes on the front. (I
am
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
well aware that, for my weight, that is not enough spokes. I use other wheels but like these and want to keep using them.) And now at about
12,000
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
miles, the aluminum alloy nipples are failing. Two so far. At the break,
the
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
metal looks grainy and crystalline.
Anyone else have this problem? Does it make sense to replace all of the nipples? Is it a bad set of nipples or is it to be expected? Are brass nipples more durable?
"Neal" replied
Quoted message said:
These wheels do not have aluminum nipples. I have a set and they are
That explains a lot. I bought the wheels on eBay from a guy who races. He probably changed the nipples from brass to aluminum to save a few grams. I had trouble believing that Bontrager would sell a wheel that would last only 12,000 miles.
So now my course of action is clear, thanks to you and the others who responded. Replace them all with brass ones.
Earlier Bontrager Race Lites used aluminum nipples: DT Prolock non-anodized. Some of these corroded and broke at the transition between the square and round. In one case I know of Trek replaced the spokes and nipples under warranty.
On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 08:56:29 -0800, jim beam <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Alfred Ryder said:
I have been using Bontrager Race Lite wheels, 20 spokes on the front. (I am well aware that, for my weight, that is not enough spokes. I use other wheels but like these and want to keep using them.) And now at about 12,000 miles, the aluminum alloy nipples are failing. Two so far. At the break, the metal looks grainy and crystalline.
Anyone else have this problem? Does it make sense to replace all of the nipples? Is it a bad set of nipples or is it to be expected? Are brass nipples more durable?
brass work fine - no reason not to use them unless you're concerned about weight. they're often preferred by those that need to adjust their wheels constantly because their threads sieze less.
regarding alloy nipps, be very concious of brand. sapim & d.t. are working well for me.
Bontrager wheels I've seen use DT spokes and nipples.
Quoted message said:
if the rim eyelets are brass, not stainless, there may be some copper interaction going on.
Bontrager rims use stainless steel eyelets. I've heard that's a legal requirement (maybe only in Europe? or everywhere except Europe?).
