In article <[email hidden]>, Bob in CT
Quoted message said:[cut]
Quoted message said:
Testing "to exhaustion" is not normally the kind of training and racing
we are concerend about. We want to go fast, and/or at high intensities,
or whatever, but almost never are we concerned with actually going
until we are exhausted while riding at a moderate to slow pace.I didn't say no protein, just that 25% protein was too much. Protein
doesn't convert to fuel as efficiently as carbs and some of the waste
products associated with protein digestion (like ammonia) are not good
for performance. So, a little protein is good, just not that much. If
you were consuming as much carbs as you could during a ride, via a
drink that was 25% protein, you'd be getting way too much protein
during that ride.-WG
Personally, I'm on a low carb diet, so I consume nowhere near the
recommended input of carbs during (before or after) a ride.
I think you may have good reasons for restricting your carbs in
general, but remember that insulin problems are almost non-existent
DURING exercise so the downsides (if there are any for you) of reducing
your carb intake will probably not be relevant DURING exercise. I'd
suggest you eat enough carbs immediately before and during exercise to
allow your body to do more work during your rides. You will also
(likely) reduce muscle catabolism because if you aren't supplying
enough carbs during exercise your body will scavenge protein from your
muscles-not a good thing.
Quoted message said:I typically
take in about 20 grams of carbs per hour, but only if my bike ride is over
about 2.5 hours (don't know why I selected that limit, but I did). I
have, however, started to take a packet having about 20 grams of carbs and
20 grams of protein, which I take about 2/3 into my ride, and I've found
it to help fill my stomach and to help me. I also take in about 20 grams
of protein both before and after the ride. That's about 60 grams of
protein for a 5 hour ride, plus whatever is in my relatively low carb bar
I take. My current long ride is about 67 miles with about one mile of
elevation gain.Also, let's say that you do take in too much protein during a ride.
What's the detriment to this?
Ammonia, for one. I also think your body isn't as efficient at
converting protein into the fuel you need during a ride as it is with
carbs. Maybe you aren't producing much ammonia, in part because the
total amount of protein isn't really that much, but the energy (500+
calories per hour) has to come from somewhere and it's not all coming
from your bodyfat.
I haven't read about this topic for 5+ years so I just did a google on
"Protein exercise ammonia" and there are lots of articles about this.
Here's one with an excerpt...
http://www.planetultra.com/training/born4.html
"Once exercise goes beyond 90 minutes it will be necessary to
incorporate protein into the fuel mix. After about 90 minutes of
exercise, our bodies begin utilizing protein as a partial fuel source
for energy demands. After the first 70-90 minutes of exercise, and
until you stop exercising, about 12.5%-15% of the calories you burn
will come from protein. Technically, this process is called
gluconeogenesis. This process is unavoidable and if you don¹t provide
protein in your fuel, your body will literally scavenge it from your
muscles. It¹s something called catabolism, also known as "protein
cannibalization", and it will cause premature muscular fatigue while
you exercise (due to excess ammonia production) as well as more post
workout soreness, in addition to compromising your immune system in the
long run.
The preferred protein for use during exercise is soy as it has less
chance of degrading into ammonia compared to whey protein (with its
high glutamine content). While glutamine is a vital amino acid for
recovery, it tends to degrade into ammonia rather quickly making it an
unwise choice to ingest prior to and during exercise. Soy has a
superior Branch Chain Amino Acid (BCAA) profile compared to other
proteins. BCAA will aid in the replenishing of glutamine within the
body (without the excess ammonia production experienced from
supplemental glutamine) in addition to providing nitrogen for the
production of alanine. Alanine is an amino acid that is converted to
glucose in the liver. More glucose means more fuel. As exercise
duration increases it will be necessary to add protein to the fuel mix
along with your carbohydrate intake to satisfy the 5-15% of the body¹s
energy requirements (and to help preserve lean muscle tissue)."
I don't quite agree with all of this but there's some good stuff in
there.
-WG